A post that deserves to be a thread starter

[Bladesway]

From Sheffsteel

Grizzley,

I thought about making a separate thread about a discussion about ownership and Chairman on Talksport last week. They were basically saying "be careful what you wish" and said foreign owners are the current trend buts its fraught with dangers and don't care about the club or its fans. They said they'll put prices up, change the colours of shirts and even try to change the name.

They said that Steve Gibson is an example of what a good chairman should be. A local lad and supporter of the club he owns. Cares about the community and offers steady financing.

I felt like ringing in and saying "so your photo fit of a bad chairman is Chansiri at SW and your idea of a good chairman is McCabe at SU".

It would be interesting if we got a new Chairman and he promised big signings but said fans must help him pay for it. So it put prices up to £30 on the Kop and £35 in the South stand. Wonder what percentage of our fans would agree with that?

They came Alam of Hull City a load of stick and said he was a joke of an owner. Hull fans hate him and want him out, hence why their 15,000 gates were so poor last season.

Howeve if you look at the PL table Hul City are joint top.
They have no manager, not bought any players over the Summer and only have 14 players in the squad.
Alam refuses to communicate with the fans and there's a bad vibe surrounding their club.
Maybe that the secret of success?

We have a foreign co-owner. He doesn't communicate with the fans and we are bottom of division 3. Early days and no need to panic and certainly no need to sack anyone, but when I hear careful what you wish for can anyone please tell me how it could possibly be worse. 10 years almost of chronic underachievement and sliding backwards year on year. No continuity with players or managers and the only ever constant the fans.

I don't see how it could be any worse and think if I and a random collection of my mates were put in charge we could easily do this badly.

 

[Silent Blade]

We've no idea how true this is, didn't it come from a bloke at Coventry who apparently told you this?

Our budget last season was lower than 5 or 6 clubs in the league according to the manager.

Someone high up at Coventry told this to my mate after the match at the executive boxes. I know the name of this person

 

[Silent Blade]

We have a foreign co-owner. He doesn't communicate with the fans and we are bottom of division 3. Early days and no need to panic and certainly no need to sack anyone, but when I hear careful what you wish for can anyone please tell me how it could possibly be worse. 10 years almost of chronic underachievement and sliding backwards year on year. No continuity with players or managers and the only ever constant the fans.

I don't see how it could be any worse and think if I and a random collection of my mates were put in charge we could easily do this badly.

I am sceptical of HRH

 

[PeteBlade]

Someone high up at Coventry told this to my mate after the match at the executive boxes. I know the name of this person

I've no idea how he'd know all contract information of our squad.

So my original point, this may or may not be true.

It's third hand.

 

[Silent Blade]

McCabe owns all of that, not the club.

Aren't these now separate to the club and now not included in any sales?

I know and to have control of the club you have to buy the ground off Scarborough holdings, the club off the co-owners. How much would that be?

 

[Silent Blade]

I've no idea how he'd know all contract information of our squad.

So my original point, this may or may not be true.

It's third hand.

First hand to me and I am not surprised that he knows the info but the surprise was that none of the Coventry players were on £5K a week, not even Joe Cole (who also spoke to my friend after the match)

 

[PeteBlade]

First hand to me and I am not surprised that he knows the info but the surprise was that none of the Coventry players were on £5K a week, not even Joe Cole (who also spoke to my friend after the match)

First hand to you would be you having the conversation rather than this rather chatty Director.

All these "high ups" tend to be very chatty after they've had a few.

 

[Pinchy]

Wendy fans dont pay £40 for all games though. Match day prices are expensive and daft I agree. My mates season ticket was not much more than mine at the Lane.

I agree higher admission does not guaantee quality and hate what clubs charge these days but your argument with foreign owners does not wash with SWFC - he has made them successful.

Has he? I've just had a word with the league table and it begs to differ...

 

[Silent Blade]

First hand to you would be you having the conversation rather than this rather chatty Director.

All these "high ups" tend to be very chatty after they've had a few.

Sorry, I meant second hand

 

[Barney]

From Sheffsteel

Grizzley,

I thought about making a separate thread about a discussion about ownership and Chairman on Talksport last week. They were basically saying "be careful what you wish" and said foreign owners are the current trend buts its fraught with dangers and don't care about the club or its fans. They said they'll put prices up, change the colours of shirts and even try to change the name.

They said that Steve Gibson is an example of what a good chairman should be. A local lad and supporter of the club he owns. Cares about the community and offers steady financing.

I felt like ringing in and saying "so your photo fit of a bad chairman is Chansiri at SW and your idea of a good chairman is McCabe at SU".

It would be interesting if we got a new Chairman and he promised big signings but said fans must help him pay for it. So it put prices up to £30 on the Kop and £35 in the South stand. Wonder what percentage of our fans would agree with that?

They came Alam of Hull City a load of stick and said he was a joke of an owner. Hull fans hate him and want him out, hence why their 15,000 gates were so poor last season.

Howeve if you look at the PL table Hul City are joint top.
They have no manager, not bought any players over the Summer and only have 14 players in the squad.
Alam refuses to communicate with the fans and there's a bad vibe surrounding their club.
Maybe that the secret of success?

I really don't understand what your point is?

 

[flash-blade]

Find a person, never mind a Blade that thinks the ground, hotel and training ground are worth 64m coz that's what KM wants, he's taken the piss, plus the only time he communicates with the fans is when the shit hits the fan or season ticket sales are going on sale, he then comes out with the old bobbar we've heard before, he's used United for his own business interests, I find it hard to believe that fans actually still stick up for him -awaits the careful what you wish for comments- well I wish for a club that's not run like Billy Smarts effing circus. If I was the Prince I'd sue him as he's been fleeced out of 13.8m to prop the club up

 

[Silent Blade]

I really don't understand what your point is?

Not surprised you didnt!

 

[Barney]

Not surprised you didnt!

Wasn't just me btw. The OP is poorly articulated.

Care to explain the point? Foreign investors - good/bad?

 

[coolhandluke]

Having read some of the absolute rubbish on this thread alone , i thank the good lord above KM doesn't listen to the " fans " .

 

[raul]

And yet, there's an argument that he listens too much to the "fans". Blackwell got the boot because the "fans" walked out after an hour of the 0-3 home game at which he was entertaining foreign investors. Wilson got the boot because the "fans " chanted Wilson out after a 0-2 home defeat, three days before a "fans" forum. Adkins - see the end of season lap of appreciation of the "fans".

In anticipation of some "damned if he does, damned if the doesnt " stuff - you're right, I agree.

 

[Sheffsteel]

We have a foreign co-owner. He doesn't communicate with the fans and we are bottom of division 3. Early days and no need to panic and certainly no need to sack anyone, but when I hear careful what you wish for can anyone please tell me how it could possibly be worse. 10 years almost of chronic underachievement and sliding backwards year on year. No continuity with players or managers and the only ever constant the fans.

I don't see how it could be any worse and think if I and a random collection of my mates were put in charge we could easily do this badly.

Point 1
We have 2 owners. Does it really matter which one does the communication? The important fact is we receive communication from the head of the club when there's a essential need to communicate or if anything changes.

Point 2
No continuity? I'm not sure if you're aware but the last I heard from McCabe was that he won't rest until we get promotion. He promised to back the manager with competitive funds but of course that manager is under pressure to perform and push for promotion. Are you saying that we should have kept Weir, Adkins etc?

Point 3
When you say you don't think we could do any worse I assume you mean on the pitch and I agree however at some clubs the demonstrations have been about their club being a joke off the pitch. As I said Hull and Charlton are doing well but according to their fans their clubs are in turmoil.

Coventry are making big losses and have been told in order to balance the books their best players MUST be sold every year and the only players they can sign are free transfers on low wages. Hence why their big earner Fleck left them to join us. They couldn't afford to keep him. Coventry have massive overheads and are making big losses if they only get 10K a week. Their fans say their club no longer exists because they can't compete with other league 1 clubs.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Wasn't just me btw. The OP is poorly articulated.

Care to explain the point? Foreign investors - good/bad?

The point is that according to Talksport radio foreign investors are usually a BAD thing.

Even if they invest millions there is sometimes a penalty to pay for the traditionalists.

Also our fans seem to be unable to separate ON field success with OFF field success.

Some fans simplistically set the equation if an owner gets us back to the PL then he's obviously a great and successful Chairman.

However speak to Pompey, Hull, Cardiff fans and they'd disagree. The Leeds dans have an ambitious foreign owner and some feel they've lost their club.

A simple question would Blades welcome a Chansiri type owner. He started spending a few million in signings but put prices up to £30 a match, changed the stadium name from Bramall Lane to the Andrex Bogroll Stadium then he changed our home kit to GREEN and WHITE stripes saying business model says we need easy identifiable image and several clubs play in red and white but not many in green and white.

He might also demolish the statues of Shaw and Dooley in the car park, saying he's not interested what our traditionalist fans think because his club will look towards the future and don't want reminders of the past.

 

[coolhandluke]

And yet, there's an argument that he listens too much to the "fans". Blackwell got the boot because the "fans" walked out after an hour of the 0-3 home game at which he was entertaining foreign investors. Wilson got the boot because the "fans " chanted Wilson out after a 0-2 home defeat, three days before a "fans" forum. Adkins - see the end of season lap of appreciation of the "fans".

In anticipation of some "damned if he does, damned if the doesnt " stuff - you're right, I agree.

I think KM's real ' achilles heel ' in all of this isn't that he listens to the fans and reacts accordingly . I believe it's because he himself is a fan .

I believe that some very unpopular decisions need to be taken at the club to reverse our current fortunes . Sadly , I don't believe KM is the man to make them . And as much as it pains KM to relinquish control of his and our club , I think now is the time to do so .

 

[Deadbat]

Many Wendy fans agree with me that they were lucky that the Rhyl jury didnt want the weekend to think over the verdict.
Lets see next May if they are lucky to have Chansiri and if they dont go up, lets see if Chansiri will chuck in more money and again this doesnt guarantee promotion. In Summer 2017 the value for Lees and Forestieri will drop down if they dont get promotion as it will be one year less left in their contracts

You sound like McCabe with the bad luck stuff. The Evans case has been done to death but the court case could also have happened weeks,months earlier. United knew there was a chance of him being found guilty and did not replace him (dont give me Hoskins and O'Halloran).

What do you think will happen to Weds if they dont go up? Serious question. They are in a far better position than us on and off the pitch. Hate saying it as cant stand them but its the truth. As for the value of Lees and Foriestri; well both are contacted till 2019 on long contracts. The former has just signed a new deal. The latter is an idiot and think he may leave but they will get 10 million quid for him. Our whole squad is not even worth a couple of million sadly and we have no real assets of note as we have sold them all!

Anyway back to United, the discussion about foreign ownership can be overplayed for me. Sure there are Venkys; Oystons and Alams out there but there are also a lot of very successful foreign owners such as Abrhamovic etc. Whatever we think that has become the reality for football.

If as the OP and Silent suggests there is such a danger, why does them being 'foreign' make them so dangerous to the club. Do they have to be a fan? If that is what we are saying then it will be a long time bfore we have a new owner if he has to be not foreign and a Blades fan.

In the Premier League I think only Palace, Norwich, Newcastle, Stoke, Spurs, Swansea, West Ham and West Brom have majority sharholder as British? Swansea are being taken over too by Americans so 7 out of 20 suggests British ownership is in the minority.

Yes, you can be careful what you wish for but I fail to see how any foreign owner or any other owner could have possible done a worse job than McCabe. Other than changing our name, selling Bramall Lane (hasnt he done that - to himself anyway!) or putting us into extinction he cant have done much more to make us a laughing stock.

 

[Bladesway]

Point 1
We have 2 owners. Does it really matter which one does the communication? The important fact is we receive communication from the head of the club when there's a essential need to communicate or if anything changes.

Point 2
No continuity? I'm not sure if you're aware but the last I heard from McCabe was that he won't rest until we get promotion. He promised to back the manager with competitive funds but of course that manager is under pressure to perform and push for promotion. Are you saying that we should have kept Weir, Adkins etc?

Point 3
When you say you don't think we could do any worse I assume you mean on the pitch and I agree however at some clubs the demonstrations have been about their club being a joke off the pitch. As I said Hull and Charlton are doing well but according to their fans their clubs are in turmoil.

Coventry are making big losses and have been told in order to balance the books their best players MUST be sold every year and the only players they can sign are free transfers on low wages. Hence why their big earner Fleck left them to join us. They couldn't afford to keep him. Coventry have massive overheads and are making big losses if they only get 10K a week. Their fans say their club no longer exists because they can't compete with other league 1 clubs.

You talk extremes but for every Leeds there is a Chelsea or Man City at the other extreme. I don't care for Premiership football if I'm honest but basically what you are saying is a change of ownership would end in not just an issue but a catastrophe where we would change our kit, our ground and our club. Most ownership changes don't go like that.

There is a reasonable middle ground you know.

 

[coolhandluke]

You sound like McCabe with the bad luck stuff. The Evans case has been done to death but the court case could also have happened weeks,months earlier. United knew there was a chance of him being found guilty and did not replace him (dont give me Hoskins and O'Halloran).

What do you think will happen to Weds if they dont go up? Serious question. They are in a far better position than us on and off the pitch. Hate saying it as cant stand them but its the truth. As for the value of Lees and Foriestri; well both are contacted till 2019 on long contracts. The former has just signed a new deal. The latter is an idiot and think he may leave but they will get 10 million quid for him. Our whole squad is not even worth a couple of million sadly and we have no real assets of note as we have sold them all!

Anyway back to United, the discussion about foreign ownership can be overplayed for me. Sure there are Venkys; Oystons and Alams out there but there are also a lot of very successful foreign owners such as Abrhamovic etc. Whatever we think that has become the reality for football.

If as the OP and Silent suggests there is such a danger, why does them being 'foreign' make them so dangerous to the club. Do they have to be a fan? If that is what we are saying then it will be a long time bfore we have a new owner if he has to be not foreign and a Blades fan.

In the Premier League I think only Palace, Norwich, Newcastle, Stoke, Spurs, Swansea, West Ham and West Brom have majority sharholder as British? Swansea are being taken over too by Americans so 7 out of 20 suggests British ownership is in the minority.

Yes, you can be careful what you wish for but I fail to see how any foreign owner or any other owner could have possible done a worse job than McCabe. Other than changing our name, selling Bramall Lane (hasnt he done that - to himself anyway!) or putting us into extinction he cant have done much more to make us a laughing stock.

The thing is Deabat , all you have done is agree with McCabe .

Of course there are good investors out there . There are also some horrendous ones too .

The real question is this ..... how do we ( KM actually ) know which ones good and which ones are bad ?

Would you , as a diehard fan of the club knowingly sell the club to someone you wernt sure about ?

 

[Bladesway]

You sound like McCabe with the bad luck stuff. The Evans case has been done to death but the court case could also have happened weeks,months earlier. United knew there was a chance of him being found guilty and did not replace him (dont give me Hoskins and O'Halloran).

What do you think will happen to Weds if they dont go up? Serious question. They are in a far better position than us on and off the pitch. Hate saying it as cant stand them but its the truth. As for the value of Lees and Foriestri; well both are contacted till 2019 on long contracts. The former has just signed a new deal. The latter is an idiot and think he may leave but they will get 10 million quid for him. Our whole squad is not even worth a couple of million sadly and we have no real assets of note as we have sold them all!

Anyway back to United, the discussion about foreign ownership can be overplayed for me. Sure there are Venkys; Oystons and Alams out there but there are also a lot of very successful foreign owners such as Abrhamovic etc. Whatever we think that has become the reality for football.

If as the OP and Silent suggests there is such a danger, why does them being 'foreign' make them so dangerous to the club. Do they have to be a fan? If that is what we are saying then it will be a long time bfore we have a new owner if he has to be not foreign and a Blades fan.

In the Premier League I think only Palace, Norwich, Newcastle, Stoke, Spurs, Swansea, West Ham and West Brom have majority sharholder as British? Swansea are being taken over too by Americans so 7 out of 20 suggests British ownership is in the minority.

Yes, you can be careful what you wish for but I fail to see how any foreign owner or any other owner could have possible done a worse job than McCabe. Other than changing our name, selling Bramall Lane (hasnt he done that - to himself anyway!) or putting us into extinction he cant have done much more to make us a laughing stock.

Haven't West Brom gone through an ownership change in the past few weeks?

PS great post.

 

[Deadbat]

Isn't that what McCabe has already done? We don't have any assets you fool.

Thats what I thought. Why it is different because it is McCabe has done that (Sold our assets to make a profit?). He is ok because he is a Blade? I dont trust McCabe anymore than an unnamed 'foreign' owner. His reign has been a disaster since 2007 and he needs to move on somehow but he wont. If he cared so much about this club as you think then wouldnt he cuts some of his losses. I dont expect him to but first and foremost McCabe is putting his and his family financial interests first as you would expect. However dont buy all this McCabe is a Blade so we are ok, he wont rip us off etc. Maybe that is not what is being implied but I am not sure we could be any worse with a new owner at the moment.

 

[Deadbat]

The thing is Deabat , all you have done is agree with McCabe .

Of course there are good investors out there . There are also some horrendous ones too .

The real question is this ..... how do we ( KM actually ) know which ones good and which ones are bad ?

Would you , as a diehard fan of the club knowingly sell the club to someone you wernt sure about ?

Surely as a businessman that is his job to vet them and use all his advisors etc. His link with the Saudis however proves that was a big gamble he went for and has not paid off

 

[coolhandluke]

Surely as a businessman that is his job to vet them and use all his advisors etc. His link with the Saudis however proves that was a big gamble he went for and has not paid off

That's why he has put a high valuation on the club . It's called being duly diligent . He could of course do a Mr Green though and flog us for a quid to any old Tom dick or harry .

The problem is though , you see a high valuation as McCabe getting his money back .

In reality , there's probably a bit of both involved but it just seems a lot more ' cool ' to say it's KM being a money grabbing thief .

 

[Deadbat]

That's why he has put a high valuation on the club . It's called being duly diligent . He could of course do a Mr Green though and flog us for a quid to any old Tom dick or harry .

The problem is though , you see a high valuation as McCabe getting his money back .

In reality , there's probably a bit of both involved but it just seems a lot more ' cool ' to say it's KM being a money grabbing thief .

Isn;t what he did though flog 50% of the club to a Saudi Tom/Dick/Harry for a quid?

I am not sure McCabe having a high valuation of club is to stop somebody of ill repute buying in? He is businessman. The deal with the Saudis proves to me he was far from duly diligent. He met him through chance in London and quite quickly was allowing him to buy 50% of the club. As delighted as we were at the time it all happened very quickly. McCabe though financially we/he would benefit from this investment. In reality it has changed nothing and we are in no better position when they came aboard.

Of course that is an argument for not selling and a foreign type investment that has not worked?

Regardless of who comes in or whether they are foreign, from Sheffield or Mars - I know one thing this club is completely stale, a mess and we are need some new direction and investment from the top whether it be part ownership (taking over from the Prince, McCabe, whoever) to try and turn around this ship which is at the moment stuck at the bottom of the ocean.

.

 

[JJBlade]

L**ds put their prices up under Ken Bates and they are still in the 2nd tier. There are L**ds fans at my work who have stopped going.

Higher admission prices doesnt guarantee quality

I didn't say it did
I asked how many of our fans would pay more if the club threw out it's policy of signing shit and went for quality instead.
How many would pay a couple of hundred quid more for a season ticket if the club showed some ambition

Personally I would,
I would pay £600 - £700 or even more for a season ticket if we could get real quality on the pitch with a real quality manager to lead them.

 

[coolhandluke]

Isn;t what he did though flog 50% of the club to a Saudi Tom/Dick/Harry for a quid?

I am not sure McCabe having a high valuation of club is to stop somebody of ill repute buying in? He is businessman. The deal with the Saudis proves to me he was far from duly diligent. He met him through chance in London and quite quickly was allowing him to buy 50% of the club. As delighted as we were at the time it all happened very quickly. McCabe though financially we/he would benefit from this investment. In reality it has changed nothing and we are in no better position when they came aboard.

Of course that is an argument for not selling and a foreign type investment that has not worked?

Regardless of who comes in or whether they are foreign, from Sheffield or Mars - I know one thing this club is completely stale, a mess and we are need some new direction and investment from the top whether it be part ownership (taking over from the Prince, McCabe, whoever) to try and turn around this ship which is at the moment stuck at the bottom of the ocean.

.

McCabe's one of us Deadbat

Isn;t what he did though flog 50% of the club to a Saudi Tom/Dick/Harry for a quid?

I am not sure McCabe having a high valuation of club is to stop somebody of ill repute buying in? He is businessman. The deal with the Saudis proves to me he was far from duly diligent. He met him through chance in London and quite quickly was allowing him to buy 50% of the club. As delighted as we were at the time it all happened very quickly. McCabe though financially we/he would benefit from this investment. In reality it has changed nothing and we are in no better position when they came aboard.

Of course that is an argument for not selling and a foreign type investment that has not worked?

Regardless of who comes in or whether they are foreign, from Sheffield or Mars - I know one thing this club is completely stale, a mess and we are need some new direction and investment from the top whether it be part ownership (taking over from the Prince, McCabe, whoever) to try and turn around this ship which is at the moment stuck at the bottom of the ocean.

.

Well firstly , if you see the Saudi involvement at Bramall Lane as even remotely similar to a " Philip Green " BHS kind of transaction you ( a ) don't understand the Saudi involvement at the lane and ( b ) have absolutely no idea of exactly what Philip Green did with BHS .

Secondly , there's something you , and to be fair , a great many other Blades seem to ignore/forget when you question McCabe's involvement at the Lane . Like you , me and thousands of others he's a Blade . Always has been and always will be . That's no excuse for some of the appalling decisions he's made , but it does make them far more understandable .

Furthermore , when it comes to selling up , he's actually gone on record many times stating quite categorically he's open to offers . But , he always quickly moves to state equally categorically , that he will never sell us down the river by flogging us to the first bidder through the door REGARDLESS of clamour from the fan base or hollow promises of greatness from potential investors .

Solutions are easy to discuss , much the same as throwing bland and often wildly inaccurate accusations about KM's propietary ethical position . Truth is though DB , real life isn't quite as simple as that , is it ?

 

[Barney]

The point is that according to Talksport radio foreign investors are usually a BAD thing.

Even if they invest millions there is sometimes a penalty to pay for the traditionalists.

Also our fans seem to be unable to separate ON field success with OFF field success.

Some fans simplistically set the equation if an owner gets us back to the PL then he's obviously a great and successful Chairman.

However speak to Pompey, Hull, Cardiff fans and they'd disagree. The Leeds dans have an ambitious foreign owner and some feel they've lost their club.

A simple question would Blades welcome a Chansiri type owner. He started spending a few million in signings but put prices up to £30 a match, changed the stadium name from Bramall Lane to the Andrex Bogroll Stadium then he changed our home kit to GREEN and WHITE stripes saying business model says we need easy identifiable image and several clubs play in red and white but not many in green and white.

He might also demolish the statues of Shaw and Dooley in the car park, saying he's not interested what our traditionalist fans think because his club will look towards the future and don't want reminders of the past.

"According to talksport foreign investors are usually a bad thing"

You then go on to list examples such as Cardiff, Leeds, Hull and Pompey where they would agree with talksport.

You then ask would we accept an owner that changes the kit to green and renames the stadium etc. - obviously not. This would also agree with talksport.

So you're agreeing with talksport and providing examples to back it up? Or do you have some other point?

Many apologies you'll have to excuse me, I find the style and the way you write confusing to say the least.

 

[Silent Blade]

I didn't say it did
I asked how many of our fans would pay more if the club threw out it's policy of signing shit and went for quality instead.
How many would pay a couple of hundred quid more for a season ticket if the club showed some ambition

Personally I would,
I would pay £600 - £700 or even more for a season ticket if we could get real quality on the pitch with a real quality manager to lead them.

Again, higher admission prices doesnt guarantee quality on the pitch. How would you know that the expensive signings will bring success to the club when you are paying £600-700 more beforehand? We made expensive signings in 1996 and 1997 but it didnt get us promotion and the season tickets didnt sell as much as Mike McDonald hoped so he decided to sell Fjortoft, Deane and Hutchison in 1998