Wisdom from Tufty

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Pinchy said:
Nice wriggly, side-stepping sophistry from Bergen Blade.

Your pseudo-technical appellations do the manager's head in, mate. Plain and simple; no room for doubt. A bit like proper football, played the right way and stripped of all the claptrap.

The great Brian Clough would have applauded Tufty's unequivocal words.
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I'd love to hear Brian Clough's views on all this over-complicated, over-analytical bullshit.

It'd be on a par with his absolute pasting of John Motson on punditry.
 



Barney said:
I'd love to hear Brian Clough's views on all this over-complicated, over-analytical bullshit.

It'd be on a par with his absolute pasting of John Motson on punditry.
Click to expand...
It's not over analytical for those not too dumb to get it.

UTB
 
Pinchy said:
Nice wriggly, side-stepping sophistry from Bergen Blade.

Your pseudo-technical appellations do the manager's head in, mate. Plain and simple; no room for doubt. A bit like proper football, played the right way and stripped of all the claptrap.

The great Brian Clough would have applauded Tufty's unequivocal words.
Click to expand...
Though Wilder has stated what he expects from his midfielders, it does not alter the fact that many midfielders, in the real world, have strengths that are either end of a spectrum.

Take Paul Coutts - who you're in record as respecting as a midfielder. Can you, with a straight face, make an argument that a midfield with two or three of his clones in it could work.

Quite clearly, it couldn't. So why do you support a midfielder that really can't run, tackle, assist or score, unless you'd use other people to compensate for these clear deficiencies?

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
It's not over analytical for those not too dumb to get it.

UTB
Click to expand...
Oh I get it alright, it's just silly and not representative. Nor is it as applicable as the "analysis" suggests it is to how the game is played on bitter Tuesday nights.
 
Pinchy said:
“It does my head in when people talk about sitting midfield players, attacking midfield players and all of that. Most of it doesn’t mean anything at all.

“Do you know what? Just be a midfield player. Tackle, get on the ball, pass it and get forward. Simple.

“Seriously, I hear a lot of nonsense spoken about what people have got to do in there. Really, all a midfielder should be focusing on is doing what a midfielder is supposed to do. Including those four things for a start.”

Perhaps one or two of our contributors will read, digest and learn?....
Click to expand...


Was there any talk about geese though ?? ;)

UTB & FTP
 
Pinchy said:
Nice wriggly, side-stepping sophistry from Bergen Blade.

Your pseudo-technical appellations do the manager's head in, mate. Plain and simple; no room for doubt. A bit like proper football, played the right way and stripped of all the claptrap.

The great Brian Clough would have applauded Tufty's unequivocal words.
Click to expand...

I'm not side-stepping anything. I wasn't even aware that Wilder, nor Clough, had replied to any of my posts. If they had I would have repeated what I said in the above post and awaited their comments.

But enough about me. Let's talk football. Do you think Wilder is saying that a "holding", "sitting", "deep-lying" midfielder (i.e. a player that do not run forward into the box very often) do not exist? Are you saying that?

When you read a quote like:

Position[edit]
Tactically, Pirlo is capable of playing in several midfield positions, but is usually deployed by his club and national sides as a central midfielder, in the role of a deep-lying playmaker, due to his vision and passing accuracy. A highly technical and creative player, Pirlo is regarded by players, managers, and pundits as one of the greatest ever players in his position,[6][8] as one of the best midfielders in the world and of his generation,[216][217] and as one of the greatest Italian players of all time.[214] He started his career in a more advanced role, as an offensive midfielder, and also played as a supporting striker on occasion.[218] Although he was considered a talented young prospect, even drawing comparisons with former Italian footballer Gianni Rivera,[219] Pirlo occasionally struggled in this role, due to his lack of pace, and competition from other talented and more dynamic players in his position.[8][26][220]

Because of this, he was later moved to a deep-lying playmaker role by his coaches Mazzone, Fatih Terim, and Ancelotti, where he was able to excel due to his unique capabilities.[8][26][221] This position best utilises Pirlo's attributes, and allows him to operate creatively from a deeper position, in or even behind the main midfield line, in a seemingly defensive midfield role, where he is allowed more time on the ball to create scoring opportunities with long balls.[8][26][222][223] During his final season with Milan, Pirlo was also used on the wing under Allegri,[224] due to his ability to provide accurate crosses.[225]
Click to expand...

Are you saying, "No, that's not true, Pirlo made runs into the box all the time and got beyond the strikers regularly, like all midfield players do and have always done"?

Are you saying that Doyle went forward as much as Scougall and Coady in 2013/14? That McCall bombed forward as much as Brown in 2002/03? How would you describe their positions and roles to a person who wanted to learn exactly how these successful midfield combinations worked?

What term would be appropriate to roughly describe the position of Stefan Scougall, if Wilder should try this line up in a 4-2-3-1-system:

Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Basham Fleck
Duffy Scougall Adams
Sharp​


Very simple questions, Pinchy , should be easy for you and Brian Clough to agree on some answers?
 
Bergen Blade said:
I'm not side-stepping anything. I wasn't even aware that Wilder, nor Clough, had replied to any of my posts. If they had I would have repeated what I said in the above post and awaited their comments.

But enough about me. Let's talk football. Do you think Wilder is saying that a "holding", "sitting", "deep-lying" midfielder (i.e. a player that do not run forward into the box very often) do not exist? Are you saying that?

When you read a quote like:



Are you saying, "No, that's not true, Pirlo made runs into the box all the time and got beyond the strikers regularly, like all midfield players do and have always done"?

Are you saying that Doyle went forward as much as Scougall and Coady in 2013/14? That McCall bombed forward as much as Brown in 2002/03? How would you describe their positions and roles to a person who wanted to learn exactly how these successful midfield combinations worked?

What term would be appropriate to roughly describe the position of Stefan Scougall, if Wilder should try this line up in a 4-2-3-1-system:

Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Basham Fleck
Duffy Scougall Adams
Sharp​


Very simple questions, Pinchy , should be easy for you and Brian Clough to agree on some answers?
Click to expand...
He can't see Scougall cos he's fallen in the hole
 
Bergen Blade said:
I'm not side-stepping anything. I wasn't even aware that Wilder, nor Clough, had replied to any of my posts. If they had I would have repeated what I said in the above post and awaited their comments.

But enough about me. Let's talk football. Do you think Wilder is saying that a "holding", "sitting", "deep-lying" midfielder (i.e. a player that do not run forward into the box very often) do not exist? Are you saying that?

When you read a quote like:



Are you saying, "No, that's not true, Pirlo made runs into the box all the time and got beyond the strikers regularly, like all midfield players do and have always done"?

Are you saying that Doyle went forward as much as Scougall and Coady in 2013/14? That McCall bombed forward as much as Brown in 2002/03? How would you describe their positions and roles to a person who wanted to learn exactly how these successful midfield combinations worked?

What term would be appropriate to roughly describe the position of Stefan Scougall, if Wilder should try this line up in a 4-2-3-1-system:

Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Basham Fleck
Duffy Scougall Adams
Sharp​


Very simple questions, Pinchy , should be easy for you and Brian Clough to agree on some answers?
Click to expand...

Lost?
 



Bergen Blade said:
I'm not side-stepping anything. I wasn't even aware that Wilder, nor Clough, had replied to any of my posts. If they had I would have repeated what I said in the above post and awaited their comments.

But enough about me. Let's talk football. Do you think Wilder is saying that a "holding", "sitting", "deep-lying" midfielder (i.e. a player that do not run forward into the box very often) do not exist? Are you saying that?

When you read a quote like:



Are you saying, "No, that's not true, Pirlo made runs into the box all the time and got beyond the strikers regularly, like all midfield players do and have always done"?

Are you saying that Doyle went forward as much as Scougall and Coady in 2013/14? That McCall bombed forward as much as Brown in 2002/03? How would you describe their positions and roles to a person who wanted to learn exactly how these successful midfield combinations worked?

What term would be appropriate to roughly describe the position of Stefan Scougall, if Wilder should try this line up in a 4-2-3-1-system:

Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Basham Fleck
Duffy Scougall Adams
Sharp​


Very simple questions, Pinchy , should be easy for you and Brian Clough to agree on some answers?
Click to expand...



What does strike me as odd in all this is that Pinchy is dismissing the idea of devensive and attacking midfielders yet he was a huge David Weir supporter. This is the manager that built his entire team around the deployment of Kevin McDonald in the “number 10” role.
 
1danewhitehouse said:
What does strike me as odd in all this is that Pinchy is dismissing the idea of devensive and attacking midfielders yet he was a huge David Weir supporter. This is the manager that built his entire team around the deployment of Kevin McDonald in the “number 10” role.
Click to expand...

"Number 10 role" is allowed. It is the words "midfield" or "midfielder" with an unsuitable prefix that is not allowed. These are such as "sitting", "holding" and "defensive". "Useless", "fucking worthless", "little" or "Coutts" are allowable. OK?
 
To be fair I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing managers 'talk the talk' over the last few years I'd like to see this revolutionary thing called winning football matches.

And I couldn't give a flying bastard fuck if we do this passing the ball 65 times before each goal or hoofing the bastard thing up the fucking pitch to a big black bloke to knock down for some one to put it in net !

And never again do I want to see shit like Monty play for us for over a decade
 
Bergen Blade said:
I'm not side-stepping anything. I wasn't even aware that Wilder, nor Clough, had replied to any of my posts. If they had I would have repeated what I said in the above post and awaited their comments.

But enough about me. Let's talk football. Do you think Wilder is saying that a "holding", "sitting", "deep-lying" midfielder (i.e. a player that do not run forward into the box very often) do not exist? Are you saying that?

When you read a quote like:



Are you saying, "No, that's not true, Pirlo made runs into the box all the time and got beyond the strikers regularly, like all midfield players do and have always done"?

Are you saying that Doyle went forward as much as Scougall and Coady in 2013/14? That McCall bombed forward as much as Brown in 2002/03? How would you describe their positions and roles to a person who wanted to learn exactly how these successful midfield combinations worked?

What term would be appropriate to roughly describe the position of Stefan Scougall, if Wilder should try this line up in a 4-2-3-1-system:

Long
Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Basham Fleck
Duffy Scougall Adams
Sharp​


Very simple questions, Pinchy , should be easy for you and Brian Clough to agree on some answers?
Click to expand...

Any further comments on this Pinchy ?
 
LS26BLADE said:
To be fair I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing managers 'talk the talk' over the last few years I'd like to see this revolutionary thing called winning football matches.

And I couldn't give a flying bastard fuck if we do this passing the ball 65 times before each goal or hoofing the bastard thing up the fucking pitch to a big black bloke to knock down for some one to put it in net !

And never again do I want to see shit like Monty play for us for over a decade
Click to expand...

pretty blunt and to the point - is this Geoff Boycott living in Rothwell ;)
 
Pinchy said:
“It does my head in when people talk about sitting midfield players, attacking midfield players and all of that. Most of it doesn’t mean anything at all.

“Do you know what? Just be a midfield player. Tackle, get on the ball, pass it and get forward. Simple.

“Seriously, I hear a lot of nonsense spoken about what people have got to do in there. Really, all a midfielder should be focusing on is doing what a midfielder is supposed to do. Including those four things for a start.”

Perhaps one or two of our contributors will read, digest and learn?....
Click to expand...
So like Mickey Jupp says, there's no difference between Eric Dier and Dele Alli? You've gone full circle again, Pinch.
 
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