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jono_t2000 said:
I think it was the very first question that probably has some people's alarm bells ringing when asked if a win could get the season back on track.

Rather than say yeah definitely this is a huge opportunity playing at home under the lights to a sold out stadium to get our first win...

It was more yeah err maybe but we are more interested in the mini league of teams who are going to around us at the end of the season.

I can see why some people would see it as a little bit defeatist.
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..but entirely realistic and not in some parallel universe that some of our supporters think we are in !!
 

loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
And don’t you think that some of our players sobbing in the centre circle before kick off against Newcastle might have affected them? And that was before the apparently dubious nature of their first three goals, coming straight off the back of the injury time defeat against Spurs? In that moment, it really did feel like the world was against us.
Our performance against Newcastle was abject, several of our players lost their heads after the third goal, and plenty of them went missing on the night ( much like the supporters). Unacceptable, but perhaps understandable given that they are human beings?
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Wow.
 
In any sphere of business the tone of the organisation is set by the leaders. Nearly all good leaders come across as eternal optimists. Even when the shit hits the fan they look for the positives and they try and drag everyone out of the mire.

At the moment our leaders are devoid of all the characteristics you need to turn a sinking ship around.

The owner is trying to sell and is rarely heard from. The manager comes across as having all the dynamism of a dead wet fish and on the pitch there is no leadership at all. There's no wonder we are struggling badly.
 
so some fans think we should just not bother ,

Im not 100% sure but support means get behind , urge on, well its what is in my dictionary
hope our players dont give up ,
31000 should produce a bit of urgency
 
loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
And don’t you think that some of our players sobbing in the centre circle before kick off against Newcastle might have affected them? And that was before the apparently dubious nature of their first three goals, coming straight off the back of the injury time defeat against Spurs? In that moment, it really did feel like the world was against us.
Our performance against Newcastle was abject, several of our players lost their heads after the third goal, and plenty of them went missing on the night ( much like the supporters). Unacceptable, but perhaps understandable given that they are human beings?
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I’ll concede that the Newcastle game was different and was played in very difficult circumstances for all connected to the club. What I was hoping for though was some kind of reaction to the loss from the players, a bit of fight and pride for the shirt - didn’t see any of that against West Ham or against Fulham (prior to Bash’s injury). What I did see were conservative, passive performances almost hoping that the opposition would take it easy on us.
 
Snowflake said:
..and be replaced by who and using what for money ? We have to be realistic as to where we are and what might happen over this and the next two seasons.
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Jesus wept id take wilder

Wednesday have just made a great appointment

I’m not saying we should have gone for him but there are hundreds of up and coming managers like that who would be desperate for a chance at a prem team
 
Swannyblade said:
I’ll concede that the Newcastle game was different and was played in very difficult circumstances for all connected to the club. What I was hoping for though was some kind of reaction to the loss from the players, a bit of fight and pride for the shirt - didn’t see any of that against West Ham or against Fulham (prior to Bash’s injury). What I did see were conservative, passive performances almost hoping that the opposition would take it easy on us.
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I’d agree with that. The players looked demoralised, and were clearly lacking in confidence. Shell shocked, even.
There’s a lot talked on here about formations and tactics. More important at the moment, I think, is that they get inside the players heads, and I hope that they’ve been focusing strongly on that in the international break. If we can get our players back ‘on it’, playing to their potential and with confidence, we will see a different team and a different level of performance. It’s the simple stuff - properly marking your man, passing the ball to one of our own players, working hard to make yourself available for a pass, taking your man on when the situation is right - that we’ve been failing in doing. We know that the players are good enough to do this. They need to believe in their abilities. Let’s hope we see some evidence of real progress in the next few games, even if they do include Man U and Arsenal.
 
S6Blademan said:
Jesus wept id take wilder

Wednesday have just made a great appointment

I’m not saying we should have gone for him but there are hundreds of up and coming managers like that who would be desperate for a chance at a prem team
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Remember we would have to pay off Hecky as well as the rest of his team and then employ three or four replacements.
There would be no guarantee that any of your ”hundreds” of managers would be any better in the PL let alone in the Championship.
I am not sure we have that amount of money , let alone to gamble it.
 
Snowflake said:
Remember we would have to pay off Hecky as well as the rest of his team and then employ three or four replacements.
There would be no guarantee that any of your ”hundreds” of managers would be any better in the PL let alone in the Championship.
I am not sure we have that amount of money , let alone to gamble it.
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My view based on performances is that we look surprisingly poor, much worse than the Bassett, Warnock and Wilder relegation teams.
It reminds me of the David Weir era , when our whole pre-season tactics and hopes were pinned on our play maker Kevin MacDonald.
Then when he was sold after the 1st game of the season, it basically turned all of Weirs planning to shit, so it looked like we had no plan.

Hecky also reminds me a little of Southgate, in that he's negative/ pragmatic, not necessarily a bad thing because it brought results last season.
It's as though he designed all his tactics on keeping Berge and especially N'Diaye, now that N'Diaye has gone, we now looks clueless.
The team look as though we're still in pre-season training regards tactics and the players look a bit shell shocked and disillusioned.
Obviously Hecky does deserve some sympathy and the owner deserves some blame because our early league games were like we were in pre-season.

Regards the manager.....agree with you.
It's too simplistic to say "sack Hecky" because it's essential to have a replacement lined up, it's normally expensive and what about the backroom staff?

At present we're between a rock and hard place.
Think our only realistic option is to offer Wilder a 8 month contract, low basic salary, massive bonus for keeping us up
and insist he must work with the current backroom staff. Wilder may not accept this offer.....he might demand a minimum 2 year contract.
So if Wilder rejects our contract offer then we should keep Hecky until it becomes toxic in the crowd.

I honestly think that with Hecky we're 100% guaranteed to be relegated and end up with 15 points.
Where as with Wilder we're 80% certain to be relegated and end up in the low 30's points.

One big positive about Hecky is, like Southgate, he's low maintenance, non confrontational, generally says the right things.
Even after an incredibly poor run, he still seems to have the backing of at least 50% of the fanbase.
Where as with Wilder it's more of a risk, if he doesn't get off to a good start then he'll get less support so could turn toxic quicker.
 
The white flag is apt.
We've just wasted two weeks when we could have installed a new manager. The current management set up looks and sounds crushed by events and unable to do anything to bring about positive change or offer any real sense of relishing the challenge.
That's now rippling out across the support and the club has to be very careful about not starting off a downward spiral that's hard to stop.
 
I won't be there because I've got to work.I think we'll lose. I don't think my presence would make a blind bit of difference to the result but I'm sick about missing it. Not going because times are hard has for me never been an option. If we do lose tomorrow I will still be miserable about not being there.
 
Pedro's Winger said:
The white flag is apt.
We've just wasted two weeks when we could have installed a new manager. The current management set up looks and sounds crushed by events and unable to do anything to bring about positive change or offer any real sense of relishing the challenge.
That's now rippling out across the support and the club has to be very careful about not starting off a downward spiral that's hard to stop.
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We couldve got in a free transfer to help out a bit.
 

The United are at a delicate point in time where their fortunes could get better, miss relegation, or they could plummet in to the obscurity of lower Championship and even lower.
Some seventy five years I have cheered and defended the club against all comers. Only club achievements 1952-53 & 1981-82.
I would be satisfied, and expected it pre season, with relegation, but what I will not be satisfied with is any lowering in the standard they are, bottom Prem/top Champ., at the moment.
This season must be used to consolidate a strong squad so their position in the over all league structure does not regress.
Whilst doing this, football being what it is, "a funny old game" as a certain person said, there may, and a very big may it would be, a little sunshine by next May.
 
S6Blademan said:
Jesus wept id take wilder

Wednesday have just made a great appointment

I’m not saying we should have gone for him but there are hundreds of up and coming managers like that who would be desperate for a chance at a prem team
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Wednesday have just made a great appointment? That's a helluva statement to make especially as the 'great appointment' has never been the head honcho at any of his previous clubs....Unless you're talking about his video editing skills?
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Pedro's Winger said:
The white flag is apt.
We've just wasted two weeks when we could have installed a new manager. The current management set up looks and sounds crushed by events and unable to do anything to bring about positive change or offer any real sense of relishing the challenge.
That's now rippling out across the support and the club has to be very careful about not starting off a downward spiral that's hard to stop.
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How could we afford to sack the current management team and employ another ?
Surely we stick with what we have and use the money wisely. If the current group cannot get us back for 2025/6 then a change is needed. Remember the plan was to prepare a team of young players capable of improving , winning promotion and then being able to cope with the PL
 
Snowflake said:
How could we afford to sack the current management team and employ another ?
Surely we stick with what we have and use the money wisely. If the current group cannot get us back for 2025/6 then a change is needed. Remember the plan was to prepare a team of young players capable of improving , winning promotion and then being able to cope with the PL
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Until the Newcastle game there was hope we would improve and be fighting to stay up. If things had stayed that way then what you have said here would be spot on. The problem as I see it is the worst possible scenario has arrived. Injuries, a lack of organisation on the field and a lack of cohesion and a lack of fight.

The question is how build some form of morale and resilience. If we don't then you will have cliques forming and players not trying or caring. Are Hecky and Co able to turn that around I doubt it. If we want to rescue some form of respect this season and leave us with a club someway competitive in the championship. There is to my mind only one man for the job when Hecky is sacked. That is Colin.
 
Nagima said:
There is to my mind only one man for the job when Hecky is sacked. That is Colin.
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Warnock is one of the all time great Championship managers but has proved to be incapable of managing in the PL. Allardyce would be a far better short term appointment, but I can’t imagine a more backwards looking appointment and that’s not the direction that our club should be heading in.
 
Snowflake said:
How could we afford to sack the current management team and employ another ?
Surely we stick with what we have and use the money wisely. If the current group cannot get us back for 2025/6 then a change is needed. Remember the plan was to prepare a team of young players capable of improving , winning promotion and then being able to cope with the PL
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If we can't afford to change the managerial team when we're in the Prem we may as well pack up as a club.
 
Well the bookies are waving the white flag for us today. We are over 8/1 to win at hine against an out of form very average Man Utd !
 

As much I think we’re royally buggered and I think there’s plenty of valid criticism to go around I don’t think Hecky will have waved the white flag. One of the most important things he managed to do last year was keep the players focused and motivated despite all the chaos going on behind the scenes and us going into an embargo.

Problem is this year we’ve looked outclassed most weeks and the players will know that more than anyone. On top of that we wasted the first month of the season because we were fucking about trying to be clever and avoiding spending money upfront as much as possible. The Palace and Everton games were there for the taking and whilst winning those games might not have kept us up it would’ve at least not made it seem like an impossible task by mid October.
 
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