Time for a back 4

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Slim Man said:
Back 4’s don’t need wingers, how many times does that need repeating.

Bogle played right back for Derby, never wing back. Larouci I’ll be fine if doesn’t play for us again. Fortunately Thomas and Baldock will be our first choices and they’re very much conventional full backs.
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Our defence is definitely struggling and we end up all over the place when attacked.

A flat 4 playing along a line would be better in the Prem.

Let the anchor men ( Norwood and Sousa) move up and down when attacking and defending.
Norwood the creative passing and Sousa the workhorse.
The 3 att mids and strikers can work the offensive play.
 

Slim Man said:
Back 4’s don’t need wingers, how many times does that need repeating.

Bogle played right back for Derby, never wing back. Larouci I’ll be fine if doesn’t play for us again. Fortunately Thomas and Baldock will be our first choices and they’re very much conventional full backs.
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Again, that makes no sense.

You said in your original post that we're getting outnumbered in the middle and down the flanks. Since we already have 3 in the middle, presumably that means you think we need more protection down the flanks. But you're also saying we don't need to play with wingers. So what are you suggesting we do? Play with 12 men?

You're also saying we should just discard one of our wing backs (the transfer window is closed) and play Bogle in a position he hasn't played in 4 years, never has in this division and one which clearly isn't suited to him.

The first team and every youth team plays in this way. We have recruited players for the last 5+ years to play in a 3-5-2. But you want to to ignore all that and switch formation 4 games into the new season because we didn't beat a team who have much better players than us.

Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense.
 
TomSUFC25 said:
The main problem is we don’t have team that is dynamic and moves about quick enough. We stand like statues and expect Norwood to pick out a player who is stood in between opponents all the time. It is basic coaching that fixes the problem. Just fucking move and create space, it is Sunday league basics.
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And we are so slow at throw ins. No one shows for the ball. No one tries a quick throw, rather than giving time for opponents get men back Into position.


Let’s have at least 3 running for the thrower to aim for…..
 
Proper Blade said:
Again, that makes no sense.

You said in your original post that we're getting outnumbered in the middle and down the flanks. Since we already have 3 in the middle, presumably that means you think we need more protection down the flanks. But you're also saying we don't need to play with wingers. So what are you suggesting we do? Play with 12 men?

You're also saying we should just discard one of our wing backs (the transfer window is closed) and play Bogle in a position he hasn't played in 4 years, never has in this division and one which clearly isn't suited to him.

The first team and every youth team plays in this way. We have recruited players for the last 5+ years to play in a 3-5-2. But you want to to ignore all that and switch formation 4 games into the new season because we didn't beat a team who have much better players than us.

Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense.
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4 midfielders in the midfield instead of 3, I’m not sure what you are struggling to grasp.

We are being outnumbered by virtue of a free man in midfield as well as a spare man down the flanks.

Just because we’ve recruited for a certain formation doesn’t mean you can’t be flexible. That’s just mental.

No matter how many times you keep saying it doesn’t make sense doesn’t mean that’s the case.
 
agree with everything on this thread were just inviting teams on to us playing 3 centre backs we have to get another body in midfield the 4132 set up sounds good to me souza can protect the centre backs hamer davies and mcatee as the 3 and mcburnie and archer up top with mcburnie dropping off linking play think we have to go for this type of formation in home games yhats where were gonna get the points to stay up
 
If we wanted to keep 5 at the back we could play 5-2-3/5-4-1 with Mcatee and Archer as wing forwards. That formation might suit Traore and Brewster when fit too.

The problem with that would be would Archer get in the box enough.
 
blade67 said:
It's not a bad idea., But requires a lot of change. Don't expect to see it until Heckys run out of all other ideas, or perhaps for 20 minutes chasing a game
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So we got to see it, chasing a game after 45 minutes and what a total shitshow it was.

Back to 5 at the back before the game was finished I think.
 
blade67 said:
So we got to see it, chasing a game after 45 minutes and what a total shitshow it was.

Back to 5 at the back before the game was finished I think.
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With a total mismatch of defenders incapable of playing a 4. A right back who isn't a right back and our 2 centre halves who definitely can't play it.

Baldock - Anel - Trusty - Thomas all can/have in the past.

We need to get away from the 5, it's like a noose round our neck.
 
Much of this discussion feels like window dressing unless our defenders decide to get themselves between their opponent and the goal.

Top tip is that. Someone should employ me to coach it.
 
Personally would like us to go to 4 at the back mainly because it gives us miles for flexibility in terms of going forward.
But there’s no way I would want to see Bogle, Lowe, Larouchi, Basham, and Robinson anywhere near it.

Whatever happens this season we need to evolve in the summer we’ve been playing the same system for the past 6 years.
 
sufcboy95 said:
Personally would like us to go to 4 at the back mainly because it gives us miles for flexibility in terms of going forward.
But there’s no way I would want to see Bogle, Lowe, Larouchi, Basham, and Robinson anywhere near it.

Whatever happens this season we need to evolve in the summer we’ve been playing the same system for the past 6 years.
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Yeah. Agreed with both, and possibly Egan in that mix.

I think we have 4 defenders capable, Anel has looked very good as a central CH even this season, and it's all Trusty has played.
Baldock - Anel - Trusty - Thomas works imo.

And definitely on the system. There's a reason most of the PL sides who played it have started to now migrate away.
 
Slim Man said:
With a total mismatch of defenders incapable of playing a 4. A right back who isn't a right back and our 2 centre halves who definitely can't play it.

Baldock - Anel - Trusty - Thomas all can/have in the past.

We need to get away from the 5, it's like a noose round our neck.
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So to paraphrase your first and last posts here.... We need to move from a 5 to a 4, (which at times we played on Sunday), but we have players incapable of playing a 4... and now you want to play a completely new back 4 in a side which is now devoid of confidence and you're throwing in a player that hasn't played more than a few mins (Trusty) and a player who's out injured (baldock)

For me, we have to go back to the set up v City and Spurs, play to the counter like we did in those games and get some confidence back. First priority is not conceding.
 
SwissBlade said:
So to paraphrase your first and last posts here.... We need to move from a 5 to a 4, (which at times we played on Sunday), but we have players incapable of playing a 4... and now you want to play a completely new back 4 in a side which is now devoid of confidence and you're throwing in a player that hasn't played more than a few mins (Trusty) and a player who's out injured (baldock)

For me, we have to go back to the set up v City and Spurs, play to the counter like we did in those games and get some confidence back. First priority is not conceding.
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Paraphrase being the key there, because you're totally taking away key points.

Every player on the planet should know how to play in a back 4. We have players who probably can't - but we have 4 that definitely can. I'm not suggesting we do it on Saturday, but it's got to be something we are at least looking into.
We've conceded 9 goals from crosses and conceded about 140 shots, I'm not sure if you notice but the back 5 isn't exactly doing much for us or the players confidence.

Playing the Spurs/City style is all well and good but concede first and the game is done.
 

blader said:
Hey each to their own but 3/4 seem completely unsuited to those roles IMO.

Baldock isn’t defensively sound enough for RB, think that’s already been seen/agreed

Bogle is an RWB (an inconsistent one at that). No way he has the output to be a premier league winger.

Mcatee is a bloody good 10, not a winger. Don’t think he’s ever played wing
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Baldock isn't defensively sound?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
 
No issues with a change in formation. As professional footballers, they should be capable of playing with 3/5 or a conventional back 4, it should hardly be something radical for any of them but its a case of whether the buffoons from last week are capable of doing anything different.

Other clubs seem to manage it. Palace changed formation last night and were marginally better for doing so.

Without Jack O'Connell, the 3-5-2 in its previous form is dead. Wilder's old guard are more or less on the outer. We can't do it in the same way and we won't have enough of the ball to do it either.

The 4 at the back can be paid to defend and we'll have the extra body in the midfield where we definitely need it, considering the lack of mobility.

------------Wes
Baldock Anel Trusty Thomas
-----Souza Slimane
McAtee --- --------Hamer
-----------McBurnie
-----------Archer

Various ways of doing it where McAtee, Hamer, McBurnie and Archer are free to attack as they see fit with some help from the full backs. One of Souza or Slimane slots in and covers and the other supports the attack
 
Slim Man said:
Paraphrase being the key there, because you're totally taking away key points.

Every player on the planet should know how to play in a back 4. We have players who probably can't - but we have 4 that definitely can. I'm not suggesting we do it on Saturday, but it's got to be something we are at least looking into.
We've conceded 9 goals from crosses and conceded about 140 shots, I'm not sure if you notice but the back 5 isn't exactly doing much for us or the players confidence.

Playing the Spurs/City style is all well and good but concede first and the game is done.
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We conceded first v city - then equalised
We scored first v spurs…
 
Suggesting a move to a back 4 argument disappears totally when we haven’t the required players in our squad to move to that system. The lack of creativity, planning and proactive thinking from the first team management and recruitment has well and truly fucked us. What an embarrassment.
 
i think 451 is the way to go for us we definetly need to get at least 1 more body in midfield maybe more like 4141 actually with souza protecting the 2 centre backs we can then get hamer mcatee norwood/slimane davies in to that midfield teams then wouldnt be just walking through us
 
Now it really, really is time.

Throw caution to the wind when Baldock is fully fit and fucking try something new.

We are currently sleepwalking to 7 points.
 
Slim Man said:
Now it really, really is time.

Throw caution to the wind when Baldock is fully fit and fucking try something new.

We are currently sleepwalking to 7 points.
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Something has to change that’s for certain! Can’t keep picking the same team and hoping things improve.
 
We are so ingrained in a back 5 system that adjusting to a back 4 will take time.

BUT..I do believe it's the right decision going forward, even if it means taking a few tonkings whilst adjusting to it... as playing a back 5 leaves us 1 short in the middle of the park.

Thomas is more a LCB anyway, can't cross and can't shoot.

Baldock is much better defensively than he is going forward as well.

You could almost argue that playing wingbacks in the modern day with the style we play is borderline inhumane anyway with the amount of work going back and forward they're expected to get thru.

No surprises that the majority of our injuries occur to our wingbacks.
 
I watched Jack Clarke take Wendy to bits on friday and knowing we can't sign him because of 'the system' pains me.

He was brilliant against us too last year. He's a joy to watch.
 
Why are so many panicking?

Apart from the Palace and Forest games which the Board/Management effectively wrote off by not being ready, we've played almost exclusively top half teams:-
1. City, the Champs, Champ League team
2. Newcastle, PIF FC, Champ League team
3. Spurs, form team, likely Champ League team
4. West Ham, European competition winning team

So 2 Champ League teams at home, 2 European Competition teams away.

Only other team we played was Everton who but for a fluke from Pickford, we'd have beaten.

We have yet to play Luton, Burnley, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham.

Each of them a potential source of points.
 

Champagneblade said:
Why are so many panicking?

Apart from the Palace and Forest games which the Board/Management effectively wrote off by not being ready, we've played almost exclusively top half teams:-
1. City, the Champs, Champ League team
2. Newcastle, PIF FC, Champ League team
3. Spurs, form team, likely Champ League team
4. West Ham, European competition winning team

So 2 Champ League teams at home, 2 European Competition teams away.

Only other team we played was Everton who but for a fluke from Pickford, we'd have beaten.

We have yet to play Luton, Burnley, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham.

Each of them a potential source of points.
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We've just lost 8-0 and followed it up with a sub-par performance.
We are 12 goals without reply.
We don't spend any quality time in the oppositions half, and put no pressure on. That's a common theme.
Pickford fluke? It's an outrageous save. We could've very easily lost that game as we won it, a point was fair.

You can dress it up however you like, the league table doesn't lie.
 
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