Sander Poll

[BushBlade]

Are you telling me a good Championship energetic CM and a tall striker wouldn't have more impact than a guy who infrequently impacts games? We're desperately shot in those departments. Playing Sander is taking McAtee out, who is doing ok. I'd rather keep him and bring more in, but that seems unlikely. The question was take £30 million or keep him. I can't believe anyone would keep him in that scenario given the impact he's had in 3 years at the club.

Seen that Flemming at Millwall? Seems to be more of a 10 but he’s huge, scored a screamer yesterday and came from Fortuna Sittard. So far, 8 in 17. He’s exactly the type who should be on our radar.

If we’re being run properly, I’d expect us to have identified the players we’re likely to lose (and taking into account the different scenarios of going up and not going up) and have a short list of potential replacements, who we scout regularly, do background checks on. This isn’t revolutionary, I know Moyes was doing this when we was at Everton and I don’t think he was the only manager doing it, it’s common sense.

If we’re doing that, we shouldn’t be too worried about losing players. Obviously Ili is almost impossible to replace like for like but I don’t think that’s the case with the rest, including Berge. There isn’t a right or wrong in this situation, selling him and replacing him might work, it might not, keeping him might work but again, it doesn’t guarantee promotion. It’s very much down to the actual situation that develops; who comes in for him, what we’re offered, who we can bring in if we accept the offer, how much he wants to leave or stay. All of these are highly relevant and the answers to these will determine what we do.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

Absolutely delusional if you think we should keep Berge having received a £30m bid. He’s not worth anywhere near that amount & that gives the club financial stability.

 

[robbiez666]

Seen that Flemming at Millwall? Seems to be more of a 10 but he’s huge, scored a screamer yesterday and came from Fortuna Sittard. So far, 8 in 17. He’s exactly the type who should be on our radar.

If we’re being run properly, I’d expect us to have identified the players we’re likely to lose (and taking into account the different scenarios of going up and not going up) and have a short list of potential replacements, who we scout regularly, do background checks on. This isn’t revolutionary, I know Moyes was doing this when we was at Everton and I don’t think he was the only manager doing it, it’s common sense.

If we’re doing that, we shouldn’t be too worried about losing players. Obviously Ili is almost impossible to replace like for like but I don’t think that’s the case with the rest, including Berge. There isn’t a right or wrong in this situation, selling him and replacing him might work, it might not, keeping him might work but again, it doesn’t guarantee promotion. It’s very much down to the actual situation that develops; who comes in for him, what we’re offered, who we can bring in if we accept the offer, how much he wants to leave or stay. All of these are highly relevant and the answers to these will determine what we do.

I just look around us and I just think that the risk of losing McBurnie or Norwood is huge. Whereas, despite Berge being obviously a highly talented player, I don't think we need him to win games. If McBurnie gets injured for the season, I think that's us done. Norwood is the only fit midfielder who can tackle or track back properly. And obviously there's what he does with the ball.

If we don't go up then we will have to sell. A huge risk to keep an injury prone player who doesn't have much left on his contract, seems like he'd want to go and one of our only assets worth significant money. If we don't go up then someone will need to be sold. Sander's value will be much less with less than a year left. We'd probably lose him for much less than we wanted. If he gets injured again, then we'll get nothing.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I see your point but his value will plummet in summer as he'll only have a year left. If we don't go up, then we'll be in trouble. Have to sell him for whatever we can get. I just don't think he has that much impact on enough games to warrant not taking £20 million, let alone £30 million. If he gets a serious injury again then he's going for nothing at the end of his contract.

I honestly don't think it will "plummet" significantly VS selling this January.
Possibly lose a few million off his valuation, but possibly not. We need to put everything on promotion this season. We have a healthy head start. If anything, I think we should be pumping a few million into the squad in January to get us over the line.

 

[BushBlade]

I just look around us and I just think that the risk of losing McBurnie or Norwood is huge. Whereas, despite Berge being obviously a highly talented player, I don't think we need him to win games. If McBurnie gets injured for the season, I think that's us done. Norwood is the only fit midfielder who can tackle or track back properly. And obviously there's what he does with the ball.

If we don't go up then we will have to sell. A huge risk to keep an injury prone player who doesn't have much left on his contract, seems like he'd want to go and one of our only assets worth significant money. If we don't go up then someone will need to be sold. Sander's value will be much less with less than a year left. We'd probably lose him for much less than we wanted. If he gets injured again, then we'll get nothing.

Another unknown is what money we’ve held back for the JTW. Again, I’d assume we did hold some back because it’s obvious we need to sign some players. If anyone can tell me of a team that got promoted without signing anyone in the JTW, I’d be surprised.

As yet, I don’t think either Brewster, Jebbo or Osula have shown that we could do without McBurnie for any length of time and I don’t think we can bank on Billy being able to do 90 minutes every game without getting injured. So, I agree we could do with a striker. Norwood is probably the least replaceable player after Ili so he’d be a big loss if he was out for a long period.

If we could sell Berge and, with whatever money we’ve got put aside plus his fee, we could add a striker, and a quality CM to replace him, then there’s an argument to sell him. If we could bring in a striker without having to sell him, there’s an argument for doing that.

But there’s a huge difference in having an informed opinion and taking a guess and, with the information available to us, we’re much closer to guessing than having an informed opinion.

 

[robbiez666]

I honestly don't think it will "plummet" significantly VS selling this January.
Possibly lose a few million off his valuation, but possibly not. We need to put everything on promotion this season. We have a healthy head start. If anything, I think we should be pumping a few million into the squad in January to get us over the line.

We'll be in single millions in summer, I would think. Especially if he doesn't pull up any trees until then. Given the lack of credible interest we've had for him.

I'd rather ensure the long term future of the club. Pumping money in and not going up would be disastrous. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that even if we did go up, we'd only be there a season. There's a huge rebuild needed either way in summer. Having EPL money would be great and make it much easier but if we don't we'll be struggling unless we're very clever.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Are you telling me a good Championship energetic CM and a tall striker wouldn't have more impact than a guy who infrequently impacts games? We're desperately shot in those departments. Playing Sander is taking McAtee out, who is doing ok. I'd rather keep him and bring more in, but that seems unlikely. The question was take £30 million or keep him. I can't believe anyone would keep him in that scenario given the impact he's had in 3 years at the club.

You didn't answer my question which two players or which energetic CM and Tall Striker would you sign in January bearing in mind how difficult it is to get good players in this transfer window.
The jurys out for me on McAtee, while Berge didn't exactly cover himself in glory yesterday when he came on, I'm prepared to cut him a bit of slack in the fact he only got 20min or so and he is coming back from injury. McAtee was hardly brilliant himself yesterday, Plus Berge is our player McAtee is not.
I would be more than happy to keep everyone we have now and not sign anyone with the possible exception of a loan forward if we have the money.
I can't believe how many of our fans can't see what a class player Berge is but I guess you get blind to class when you have been watching players like Gannon, Montgomery, Booker or Doyle, for years.
I don't know if it's true Chelsea tried to take him on loan in August or that their apparent interest in him along with Liverpools in the up and coming transfer window is true, but along with Champions League club Bruges interest suggests that he's a player.
Even if all the apparent interest is bollocks I don't ever remember clubs of the size of those mentioned above ever been interested in Gannon, Montgomery, Booker or Doyle.

 

[sitwell]

30 million ?? What planet are you guys on, we wont get 10 million, and on yesterdays show more like 10 pence.

 

[robbiez666]

Another unknown is what money we’ve held back for the JTW. Again, I’d assume we did hold some back because it’s obvious we need to sign some players. If anyone can tell me of a team that got promoted without signing anyone in the JTW, I’d be surprised.

As yet, I don’t think either Brewster, Jebbo or Osula have shown that we could do without McBurnie for any length of time and I don’t think we can bank on Billy being able to do 90 minutes every game without getting injured. So, I agree we could do with a striker. Norwood is probably the least replaceable player after Ili so he’d be a big loss if he was out for a long period.

If we could sell Berge and, with whatever money we’ve got put aside plus his fee, we could add a striker, and a quality CM to replace him, then there’s an argument to sell him. If we could bring in a striker without having to sell him, there’s an argument for doing that.

But there’s a huge difference in having an informed opinion and taking a guess and, with the information available to us, we’re much closer to guessing than having an informed opinion.

If we're playing Ndiaye, which of course we are, then we need a striker who can run the line next to him. There's only McBurnie and Sharp who can do that imo. Jebbo, maybe, but he looks at least a year off being a Championship player. Brewster needs to be next to that kind of forward. Neither are near fitness by the look of it. Osula is on the bench for a League 1 team with no money.

If we sold Ndiaye, and let's hope that doesn't happen, I'd say we'd have a number of players who can play next to McBurnie. I think McAtee and Khadra could probably do it on top of the strikers above.

 

[BushBlade]

If we're playing Ndiaye, which of course we are, then we need a striker who can run the line next to him. There's only McBurnie and Sharp who can do that imo. Jebbo, maybe, but he looks at least a year off being a Championship player. Brewster needs to be next to that kind of forward. Neither are near fitness by the look of it. Osula is on the bench for a League 1 team with no money.

If we sold Ndiaye, and let's hope that doesn't happen, I'd say we'd have a number of players who can play next to McBurnie. I think McAtee and Khadra could probably do it on top of the strikers above.

Yeah, but I was replying to your comment about what happens if McBurnie is out for a protracted length of time, by saying I don’t think any of the strikers can replace him (implying that Sharp can but won’t be able to do it each and every game).

 

[robbiez666]

You didn't answer my question which two players or which energetic CM and Tall Striker would you sign in January bearing in mind how difficult it is to get good players in this transfer window.

I didn't answer your question because I'm not employed as a scout. Are you trying to tell me we couldn't get a good CM and ST for £15 million? Not talking EPL standard. We only need players good enough to take us up. The striker would be a back-up for McBurnie.

I can't believe how many of our fans can't see what a class player Berge is but I guess you get blind to class when you have been watching players like Gannon, Montgomery, Booker or Doyle, for years.

We're not blind to class. The question was £30 million for a player who has done precisely what in 3 seasons here? Been injured? Had 3 or 4 games where he's been vital and another half dozen when he's been really good?

He's had much less than half the impact of MGW or Ndiaye on games and they're worth what? McBurnie has won us many more games than Berge. Norwood. Wes. Egan.

I'm sure he'll be good in a team with world class players and who dominate the ball. That is never going to be us. So, hold on to a player who doesn't really fit into our system or sell him for £30 million. A huge fee for this league.

 

[robbiez666]

Yeah, but I was replying to your comment about what happens if McBurnie is out for a protracted length of time, by saying I don’t think any of the strikers can replace him (implying that Sharp can but won’t be able to do it each and every game).

Sorry, not entirely unhungover this morning!

 

[Broomhall Blade]

I didn't answer your question because I'm not employed as a scout. Are you trying to tell me we couldn't get a good CM and ST for £15 million? Not talking EPL standard. We only need players good enough to take us up. The striker would be a back-up for McBurnie.

We're not blind to class. The question was £30 million for a player who has done precisely what in 3 seasons here? Been injured? Had 3 or 4 games where he's been vital and another half dozen when he's been really good?

He's had much less than half the impact of MGW or Ndiaye on games and they're worth what? McBurnie has won us many more games than Berge. Norwood. Wes. Egan.

I'm sure he'll be good in a team with world class players and who dominate the ball. That is never going to be us. So, hold on to a player who doesn't really fit into our system or sell him for £30 million. A huge fee for this league.

We won't get 30 million for him no where near so for me keep him, keep the squad together and try and add a Striker.
What I don't get is you seem to think McAtee is the answer a player who has literally done nothing of note Since being here and is not even our player.
Has McBurnie won us more games than Berge really, McBurnie did naff all for 3 years nearly.

 

[Kev Gee]

No one is going to offer £30 million.
Maybe 10-15 million.
I wouldn't sell him unless the unlikely scenario of a loan back till end of the season was also offered.

 

[FriethBlade]

Can't reply to individual comments, for some reason it all goes wonky!!!

Anway no chance of us getting even 20m for Berge. If we were offered 15m I think I'd take it.

Re who to sign, what about Doyle? Will never make it at Man City but could be a top player for us for years.

Agree re desperately needing a McBurnie back up..upwhat about Joao at Reading or would Newcastle let Woods come on loan, surely they will be signing better than him if they want to make the Champions league

 

[HeySethUTB]

The only reason i want us to keep sander is because despite our league position we still haven’t been able play the best 11.

 

[Champagneblade]

If you'd put £20m this might have been a more realistic and interesting poll.
Nobody in their right mind is going as high as £30m.

This is the rub for me.

If someone offered 20m or less I'd be politely declining.

I simply would not entertain less than what we paid and I think the owners have been consistent that they have no intention of selling at a loss.

His Agent would also have trouble suggesting the club should let him move on due to his success and the desire of better clubs to take him, whilst at the same time making the case his value has decreased.

To sell him at a loss whilst still weakening the team would seem to have little upside especially as, if you're prepared to sell him at a loss you could manage that in the coming summer. If him remaining helps him becomes a PL player once more you can argue any reduction in value due to him having 12 months left gets offset by promotion and the added value that brings.

Perhaps 25m might have been a better number though it is still close. Just under 55 in favour of selling at 30m and 45ish for keeping.

Is he worth 30m? Probably not. Is keeping him going to increase our chances of promotion and the 150m+? Yes, it is. So it really boils down to what he's work to us. But you don't have to sell at market value. if he's important at that time, then he needs to be prized away.

 

[Champagneblade]

The offers will be nearer to £10m than £30m so it’s a moot point

In which case there is absolutely no chance he'll be sold. Liverpool can be interested as much as they like but if they're coming in looking for a 50% discount on one of our better players then I'd remind them of how 23.5m only buys you a Rhian Brewster!

 

[Houston_Blade]

In which case there is absolutely no chance he'll be sold. Liverpool can be interested as much as they like but if they're coming in looking for a 50% discount on one of our better players then I'd remind them of how 23.5m only buys you a Rhian Brewster!

It’s only a discount if he was worth that in the first place

 

[robbiez666]

We won't get 30 million for him no where near so for me keep him

The question is 'would you sell him for £30 million?'. That is the question I'm answering.

Has McBurnie won us more games than Berge really, McBurnie did naff all for 3 years nearly.

Yes, I'd say so, despite being ineffective or injured for long sections of his time here.

 

[robbiez666]

Can't reply to individual comments, for some reason it all goes wonky!!!

Anway no chance of us getting even 20m for Berge. If we were offered 15m I think I'd take it.

Re who to sign, what about Doyle? Will never make it at Man City but could be a top player for us for years.

Agree re desperately needing a McBurnie back up..upwhat about Joao at Reading or would Newcastle let Woods come on loan, surely they will be signing better than him if they want to make the Champions league

I think both those players would expect to start. I'm thinking more Madine, back when we went up.

 

[robbiez666]

This is the rub for me.

If someone offered 20m or less I'd be politely declining.

I simply would not entertain less than what we paid and I think the owners have been consistent that they have no intention of selling at a loss.

His Agent would also have trouble suggesting the club should let him move on due to his success and the desire of better clubs to take him, whilst at the same time making the case his value has decreased.

To sell him at a loss whilst still weakening the team would seem to have little upside especially as, if you're prepared to sell him at a loss you could manage that in the coming summer. If him remaining helps him becomes a PL player once more you can argue any reduction in value due to him having 12 months left gets offset by promotion and the added value that brings.

Perhaps 25m might have been a better number though it is still close. Just under 55 in favour of selling at 30m and 45ish for keeping.

Is he worth 30m? Probably not. Is keeping him going to increase our chances of promotion and the 150m+? Yes, it is. So it really boils down to what he's work to us. But you don't have to sell at market value. if he's important at that time, then he needs to be prized away.

I think there are many questions here.

His value has obviously gone down since we signed him. He didn't do a great amount in the top flight and hasn't done a great deal to stand out or shine in the two seasons we've been in the Championship. He's also not that good if we go up, as he needs to play in a team who have possession and we'll be trying to counter.

His value might be £20 million, based on talent, but it isn't on performance, level played at or injury record. I'd be shocked if we got £15 million to be honest. With his contract coming towards an end and with no sign that he'd want to stay, that value will decrease by the month. Or, if he plays well, he's gone in summer. He'll force the move if a big team comes in and we'll not get anywhere near his clause.

I don't think his value to Sheffield United, as a player, is anything like his value as a player. Doesn't fit our system. Good to have when everyone fit but if his influence on games more than Doyle? Not good enough defensively to play for us in the EPL unless we could sign a world class CM who has all the abilities he lacks.

For Sheffield United, he's played 80 games, scored 10 and 9 assists. Not exactly top stats for a player who cost us £22 million and adds little defensively. Over half those games have been in the English second division.

There's another question here. We have to sell if we don't go up. If his value drops to single millions, which it might as an upfront payment, who are we selling? The club can't afford to lose £9 million if he holds out for a free transfer. Ndiaye might go regardless but if not you're looking at Egan, RND, Bogle. But then again, two of those have been injured so probably not worth anything like they would be from a full fit season.

I just think that we could use half his fee to replace him with two players who would give us a better chance of promotion and that his value is nowhere near what some seem to think it is.

 

[TJ blade]

I see your point but his value will plummet in summer as he'll only have a year left. If we don't go up, then we'll be in trouble. Have to sell him for whatever we can get. I just don't think he has that much impact on enough games to warrant not taking £20 million, let alone £30 million. If he gets a serious injury again then he's going for nothing at the end of his contract.

How many promotion chasing teams sell one of there better players. Are you mad...

 

[FriethBlade]

I think both those players would expect to start. I'm thinking more Madine, back when we went up.

I'd have no problem with Madine

 

[robbiez666]

I'd have no problem with Madine

Maybe. Not sure how good he is now. Did ok against us but not seen him play this season apart from that. His stats look decent though. Certainly a decent shout off a bench.

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

Fuckin 'ell. After that 20 mins train crash of a performance from him yesterday, we'd be lucky to get any bids for him at all. Either he's still fucked or can't be arsed.....

 

[Blade58]

I think Berge will leave for £15m or thereabouts, but not until the end of the season

I believe that the two academy lads that left for Spurs and now Man City both rumoured to be worth £2m each in fees offers the club the stop gap it needs to see the season out without having to sell, especially because of the lofty position we see the club currently in

 

[blade67]

One thing to consider in this debate is that whilst Sander cost circa £22m, that is not what he stands at on United's balance sheet.

Based on straight line depreciation which is what I think united do, he's standing us at around £7.5m.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

The question is 'would you sell him for £30 million?'. That is the question I'm answering.

Yes, I'd say so, despite being ineffective or injured for long sections of his time here.

Yes it was but do you honestly believe anyone is going to offer 30 million ?

So it's OK for McBurnie to have been injured but Berge it's one of the reasons you get rid.

 

[Gavlar]

Where's the option to not sell him at all?