Tonights Corporate Meeting With The Chairman

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Revolution said:
Whereas your alternative strategy is seeing us get worse every season. It has failed.

No point in debating it further with you though. I understand your position.
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You clearly don't, you're just trying to be smart. And failing.

It's not my "strategy"and saying it is simply weakens your own argument through lack of facts as to what I've said.

Players on the up hold all the aces, contract or not. That's the reality, all the suggestions of "playing hardball" are based on what experience exactly?

All those saying it ignore the obvious Devlin scenario and the upturn in form from players when their contracts are coming to an end and nobody wants them. It's not a black and white scenario, whatever you might think.
 

Sean Thornton said:
You clearly don't, you're just trying to be smart. And failing.

It's not my "strategy"and saying it is simply weakens your own argument through lack of facts as to what I've said.

Players on the up hold all the aces, contract or not. That's the reality, all the suggestions of "playing hardball" are based on what experience exactly?

All those saying it ignore the obvious Devlin scenario and the upturn in form from players when their contracts are coming to an end and nobody wants them. It's not a black and white scenario, whatever you might think.
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I am saying I know your position because we debated it up thread.

I know it's not black and white. I acknowledged that too.

Players have the field weighted in their favour. But the club still has leverage. We did not release Murphy because of a Devlin scenario. We did it because he's a nice lad and we didn't want to stand in his way, per Jim Phipps. There's no evidence whatsoever that Murphy would have sulked. That's a very poor way to do business. And it has been to the detriment of the team.

It certainly is not black and white. You do not need to bend over for the players every time. Other clubs do not.
 
Revolution said:
I am saying I know your position because we debated it up thread.

I know it's not black and white. I acknowledged that too.

Players have the field weighted in their favour. But the club still has leverage. We did not release Murphy because of a Devlin scenario. We did it because he's a nice lad and we didn't want to stand in his way, per Jim Phipps. There's no evidence whatsoever that Murphy would have sulked. That's a very poor way to do business. And it has been to the detriment of the team.

It certainly is not black and white. You do not need to bend over for the players every time. Other clubs do not.
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My "position" is i believe that players who's careers are on the up hold the aces. It's that simple. That's not my "strategy" as you claimed earlier. That would be me saying that I think the club should carry on selling its best players as a plan of action which is clearly rubbish.

Man. United with Ronaldo, Liverpool with Suarez and Spurs with Modric and Bale , for starters, prove other clubs do have to accept the realities.

There's no evidence about how Murphy would have reacted. He did express a desire to play in a higher division in the hope it got him a Scottish cap. Ie he did want to leave. Same as there's no evidence that he wouldn't have sulked either but don't you think the club have to take that into account.?
 
Silent Blade said:
Tonight I spoke to my friend who was in the Executive boxes last Saturday and asked him who told him about 12 of our players being on £5000 or more a week. He replied "The bigwigs". I asked "Coventry bigwigs or Blades bigwigs?". He replied "both". Ok?
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Seevthat is so hearsay and means nothing. So our so called bigwigs are telling Coventry bigwigs 12 of our players are on 5k or more????
 
Sean Thornton said:
Alan Quinn signed I thinknin 2004 when our income was only around a million more than now. That's a fact and like you ive spoken to him because he went out with someone I knows family member. I certainly wouldn't query the fact his wages werent that high as you say when he joined though because of Gillespies comments about what he was paid in his book. That's eleven years plus ago though, much has changed since then.
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And football has had to cope with a recession like the rest. Some clubs have been insulated from this ie premiership ones, we have not.
If we are paying 5k to 12 or more players then McCabe really has fucked up and we are far richer than anyone believe s.
 
Sean Thornton said:
My "position" is i believe that players who's careers are on the up hold the aces. It's that simple. That's not my "strategy" as you claimed earlier. That would be me saying that I think the club should carry on selling its best players as a plan of action which is clearly rubbish.

Man. United with Ronaldo, Liverpool with Suarez and Spurs with Modric and Bale , for starters, prove other clubs do have to accept the realities.

There's no evidence about how Murphy would have reacted. He did express a desire to play in a higher division in the hope it got him a Scottish cap. Ie he did want to leave. Same as there's no evidence that he wouldn't have sulked either but don't you think the club have to take that into account.?
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"Even Man U sold Ronaldo" is a blade too long argument. Those are radically different circumstances. Those clubs are better placed to get replacements in and they are also dealing in enormous sums of money so there is more risk if you say no and the player's career ends the next week via injury.

Sometimes you have to sell, I accept that. But sometimes you have to look to your own interests rather than always cave in to the player. And it may not be your strategy, fine - but it is United's default strategy. If we are to go up, it has to become less of the normal way of doing things.
 
grafikhaus said:
Quite. Strip away the bullshit and this is why we find ourselves on an extended stay in Division Three. There may be others that I've forgotten, but this constant selling - and not adequately replacing any 'talent' we have - is the inevitable result. As if losing these players isn't enough, we get the usual poor timing of the sales, the 'undisclosed' and stuff like Beattie's 'flu'. I've only really included post the 2009 play-off final v Burnley as this was when McCabe literally threw the baby out with the bathwater. Add up the (reported) transfer fees and less than £20-odd million won't be as much as we've lost since 2009. It doesn't include players like Kilgallon, Quinn, Paddy and - yes - Monty. Players who would walk into the present 'team'.

And it doesn't include our inability to secure much-loved loan players like Conor Coady, Matt Phillips and Kyle Bartley.

Read it and weep.

View attachment 17239
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This is tremendous.

You might add Kilgallon's sale to the graph. That helped to stymie a playoff bid in 2010.

There was a case for selling him, of course, in the summer of 2009, given that he was in the last year of his deal and wanted away by all accounts. Shame we sold 2 better and younger defenders, who were under contract, instead. After that, we really should have kept hold of him. Unfortunately we decided Nyron Nosworthy was a better bet.
 
Silent Blade said:
What you believe or don't believe is not important to me
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I'm sure that is the case with most on here. However it is a discussion board and if you post something that is open to question then expect it to be so questioned.
 
boo radley said:
I'm sure that is the case with most on here. However it is a discussion board and if you post something that is open to question then expect it to be so questioned.
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I was just putting in what I was told was discussed at the Executive boxes at Coventry last Saturday. The big surprise to me was that none of the Coventry players are on £5000 a week. I thought I would share it in here

You say Alan Quinn was on less than £5000 a week but he signed for us 12 years ago and Sean Thornton is right that wages have come up a lot in the last 12 years. In 2002 FL clubs suffered financially because ITV Digital had pulled out from the agreement so clubs had to cut wages.

I have said enough now
 
AlienWoodward said:
A period of notice isn't a legal thing. It is more a courtesy. You don't break bridges with your employer and he will give you a good reference.
There is nothing stopping someone saying stuff you I'm off and walking out. Would an employer drag them back and say "Not until you've worked your notice"
There are thousands of people who walk out of work without giving notice.
Many years ago before I became self employed I handed my notice in properly. My boss said he didn't want me around the workplace spreading negativity and paid me and my notice up.
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A period of notice is a legal thing actually and not purely courtesy.

You could be sued for breach of contract.

Didn't see that others had picked up on this but it's certainly not just a courtesy.
 
Revolution said:
This is tremendous.

You might add Kilgallon's sale to the graph. That helped to stymie a playoff bid in 2010.

There was a case for selling him, of course, in the summer of 2009, given that he was in the last year of his deal and wanted away by all accounts. Shame we sold 2 better and younger defenders, who were under contract, instead. After that, we really should have kept hold of him. Unfortunately we decided Nyron Nosworthy was a better bet.
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Just for you...

upload_2016-5-5_10-10-5.png


From Kilgallon's Wiki entry: "Kilgallon started the next season (2009-2010) as regular first choice in defence once more, but with his contract due to expire the following summer he rejected new terms with the club meaning his future was dogged by speculation throughout the year.[5] At the turn of the year however, Kilgallon announced that he intended to remain at Bramall Lane and see out the remainder of his contract[6] and rejected a move to Premiership Burnley.[7] 'Wanted away'? or 'we couldn't stand in his way?'

So, the repeated selling of our best/better players, £20m+ in Tevez money, some very useful cup-run revenue (Including Man. U last January, £2m?), by far the best - indeed incredible - crowds over the years. BTW, Burnley forfeited the £2m play-off money in 2009 and gave it to United.

Whether this is a BHS-style asset-stripping or not, five years in Division 3 (and counting) and our lowest finishing League position for 36 years takes some explaining away.

EDIT: I've sussed it! Since the PO Final in 2009, the graph shows a consistent decline over seven seasons. There was a slight upturn after we sold K. Mac. Deciding this couldn't continue, the board sold Murphy...
 
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Easy, none of the evidence is evidence, it's just your opinion of evidence. And look in the Accounts.

raul - The Seanceror's Apprentice since 10.26. :)
 

Revolution said:
This is tremendous.

You might add Kilgallon's sale to the graph. That helped to stymie a playoff bid in 2010.

There was a case for selling him, of course, in the summer of 2009, given that he was in the last year of his deal and wanted away by all accounts. Shame we sold 2 better and younger defenders, who were under contract, instead. After that, we really should have kept hold of him. Unfortunately we decided Nyron Nosworthy was a better bet.
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Even after all this time, I am still torn between whether to laugh or cry when I hear that name...........
 
grafikhaus said:
Just for you...

View attachment 17247


From Kilgallon's Wiki entry: "Kilgallon started the next season (2009-2010) as regular first choice in defence once more, but with his contract due to expire the following summer he rejected new terms with the club meaning his future was dogged by speculation throughout the year.[5] At the turn of the year however, Kilgallon announced that he intended to remain at Bramall Lane and see out the remainder of his contract[6] and rejected a move to Premiership Burnley.[7] 'Wanted away'? or 'we couldn't stand in his way?'

So, the repeated selling of our best/better players, £20m+ in Tevez money, some very useful cup-run revenue (Including Man. U last January, £2m?), by far the best - indeed incredible - crowds over the years. BTW, Burnley forfeited the £2m play-off money in 2009 and gave it to United.

Whether this is a BHS-style asset-stripping or not, five years in Division 3 (and counting) and our lowest finishing League position for 36 years takes some explaining away.

EDIT: I've sussed it! Since the PO Final in 2009, the graph shows a consistent decline over seven seasons. There was a slight upturn after we sold K. Mac. Deciding this couldn't continue, the board sold Murphy...
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Now that's what you call a graph!
 
grafikhaus said:
Claude Davis? We paid £3m for the stiff. Incredibly, Derby bought him for the same...
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I know Trev, that one brings a smile to my face, as Colin the Derby fan always reminds me in the pub, "the poison dwarf (Billy Davies) paid three million quid for your cast off, Claude "Donkey" Davis!"
 
Grappler said:
I know Trev, that one brings a smile to my face, as Colin the Derby fan always reminds me in the pub, "the poison dwarf (Billy Davies) paid three million quid for your cast off, Claude "Donkey" Davis!"
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Oh, I remember it well, G! Just before the 2007-08 season started (Derby bought Donkey Davis in July 2007), Colin accosted me and solemly told me 'The trouble with Warnock is that he can't recognise a good player.' I replied 'Have you seen Claude Davis?' (Rumours that Billy and Claude were related have been denied...:D)

If Colin thought Davis was bad, his successor - Paul 'Jimmy' Jewell set a new PL record for the lowest-ever points total, 11 pts.

Hmm. Billy Davies or Paul Jewell. Could 'do a job' here? :D
 
Champagneblade said:
Funny he thought sacking Wilson was the wrong decision. Having taken Swindon down, surely it was hiring him! Only management he had to do was get cover for Evans. He signed injured Hoskins, past it Beattie and useless O'Halloran.
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Only management he had to do? Come on.
 
grafikhaus said:
Oh, I remember it well, G! Just before the 2007-08 season started (Derby bought Donkey Davis in July 2007), Colin accosted me and solemly told me 'The trouble with Warnock is that he can't recognise a good player.' I replied 'Have you seen Claude Davis?' (Rumours that Billy and Claude were related have been denied...:D)

If Colin thought Davis was bad, his successor - Paul 'Jimmy' Jewell set a new PL record for the lowest-ever points total, 11 pts.

Hmm. Billy Davies or Paul Jewell. Could 'do a job' here? :D
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I often remind Colin of that fact!
 
boo radley said:
And football has had to cope with a recession like the rest. Some clubs have been insulated from this ie premiership ones, we have not.
If we are paying 5k to 12 or more players then McCabe really has fucked up and we are far richer than anyone believe s.
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My point was that we weren't "much better off" in 2004.

Paying 12 players £5k or more - I have no idea if it's accurate - hardly means we are richer. It means we incur bigger losses that the owners have to fund.
 
Revolution said:
"Even Man U sold Ronaldo" is a blade too long argument. Those are radically different circumstances. Those clubs are better placed to get replacements in and they are also dealing in enormous sums of money so there is more risk if you say no and the player's career ends the next week via injury.

Sometimes you have to sell, I accept that. But sometimes you have to look to your own interests rather than always cave in to the player. And it may not be your strategy, fine - but it is United's default strategy. If we are to go up, it has to become less of the normal way of doing things.
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Man United had to sell him though. They couldn't stop him wanting away. As you say though, they spend the money on replacements, we all know we don't, which is really where the problem lies and has for a number of years. Keeping players or being unable to is one thing but it's the failure to reinvest is what really causes failure and we both agree entirely on that.
 

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