Youth

[Pollingtonblade]

You know what scrap the fucking academy, sell the bastard and let's go training up at the 'Ball Inn' didn't do Bassetts heroes any harm.

What fucking use is the academy where we are at anyway?

 

[silverfox]

You know what scrap the fucking academy, sell the bastard and let's go training up at the 'Ball Inn' didn't do Bassetts heroes any harm.

What fucking use is the academy where we are at anyway?

Ball Inn? On top of the houses?

 

[Pinchy]

I'd have Whiteman over Basham every day of the week.

On the basis that Basham has demonstrated himself to be inadequate but Whiteman has yet to do so?

They're all stars when they're not playing....

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Ball Inn? On top of the houses?

Haha be one way of toughening em up - sure I used to go watch Northern Intermediate league games in the mid 80s there.

We even won the league Mendonca scored loads.

 

[Silent Blade]

You know what scrap the fucking academy, sell the bastard and let's go training up at the 'Ball Inn' didn't do Bassetts heroes any harm.

What fucking use is the academy where we are at anyway?

Thought we stopped training at the Ball Inn in 1981 because vandals were always damaging our changing rooms and we were fed up having to pay for the repairs?

 

[silverfox]

Haha be one way of toughening em up - sure I used to go watch Northern Intermediate league games in the mid 80s there.

We even won the league Mendonca scored loads.

I lived just over the wall and had many happy hours watching training...cups of tea with TC, Badger, Hemsley....etc... Great times!

 

[silverfox]

Some times players were made to "run" up Myrtle Road to training too.....although as a young pup could get up that hill on my bike!

 

[larkymasher]

Dear oh dear. The Bladey Boyband strikes up again. Full of wisdom about what our club should be doing for these snotty nose kids and even how we should "respect them".

I've just had a word with the real world and he takes the view that these respectable kids get plenty of chance to excel at youth levels and that its up to them to force the manager to pick them by sheer weight of performance in matches and on the training field.

He says it's professional football not the fucking X-Factor. He says he'll respect complete novices when they achieve something respectable.

He remembers De Juve, Ironside, Chappell, Di Maio, McFadz, Khan, Whitehouse to name but a few, so I think he knows what he's talking about. He hopes the youngsters respect that...

Problem with this post is that the young players WILL respect Mr Real Worlds post, if they can be bothered to read it. Whilst on the other hand Mr Real World seems to have a problem showing respect to anyone who may not quite have achieved their goals in life or indeed have an opinion.

Next time Mr Real World see one of these youngsters in the first team, and they have achieved something respectable and proved themselves worthy of Mr Real Worlds respect ,i am sure Mr Real World can throw his smudged y fronts his way and show him all the respect he can muster.

Sadly i don't think Mr Real World will.


Very amusing though.

 

[Rodley]

On the basis that Basham has demonstrated himself to be inadequate but Whiteman has yet to do so?

They're all stars when they're not playing....

Seen enough of him to think he's got a far better chance than Reed. Physically he's a good size and reasonably athletic. That's the basis of a decent player.

 

[Bladesway]

I'm in complete agreement with you Larky old boy .

However , as an aside , I'm just concerned that the atmosphere at the Lane right now is so poisonous I'd hate to see the younguns exposed to it .

Yeah it would be fucking shit to get paid to play a sport you love in front of 17k. Wank.

 

[alcoblade]

I'd like to add aswell ..... anyone clamouring for the Academy to close is , frankly , off their fucking head . This is one facet of the Club where KM got it right .

Why so? Over the last decade, and the hundreds of first team opportunities that you've witnessed, how many of them have been filed with academy prospects, and exactly what would we miss if we closed it?

UTB

 

[Deadbat]

Interesting post.

I would love some of our lads to come through. Not seen enough of Semple and Brooks. Latter looks very small/frail but a decent footballer.

As for the thoughts on the others, DCL has been really poor in every game I have seen him play (granted a lot from the bench), Reed has gone backwards after a promising start and has been really poor in every game I have seen in the last 12 months and barely even been involved due to this (he got subbed at half time two games running back end of Clough era).

Whiteman had a decent debut but played quite a few games after that - not sure he stood out. He was neat and tidy but another that lacks pace/athletic ability and command. Sure he may get these things?

Someone alluded to his performance at Southend at right back being good....I thought he was badly shown up in this game.

I would love to have more kids coming though and on the face of it; it may seem annoying they we havent but really have any of DCL, Whiteman, Reed done enough to justify being picked. All 3 have been in and around the first team squad now for 2 years +

Not so sure on the other beneath them but if they were that good you would think regardless of the merits of Clough, Adkins, Wilder (yes, I know they have all been useless!) and coaching staff they would make themselves hard to leave out. We are in the third division and if these lads cannot make it here and at last nail down a regular place.

i have been a critic of all our managers but not sure it sticks on this one. Reed, DCL, Whiteman could have been regulars for a season or so and would they have improved our position? I think if those 3 and some others had been regulars we would be very near the bottom. Suppose we are there anyway. Not sure whether Whiteman would do much worse than Basham though as others have alluded but I dont think either (nor Reed) are good enough.

The idea of throwing a 17 year old centre back in to me would be potentially damaging to him longer term. The lad had not even played any first team football anywhere. Get him out on loan and see how he does.

When likes of Walker, Naughton, Woodhouse, Morris, Maguire came through most fans could tell withing a game or so, they looked special and really stood out even as kids. None of the recent ones have done that or even come close to it.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Reading some of the above made me recall a very old article in the Economist (it was against subsidising nascent businesses) with the headline "Incubator babies make Iron Lung Adults". It might be harsh but those young lads, to be of any use to the club, are going to have to handle the supporters' frustrations. In truth though I suspect that they would have an easier ride from the majority than some of the so-called established pros.

Any cost-benefit analysis over recent years doesn't really seem to make the Academy a shining beacon if you take the number of players either making the move into the Sheffield United first team or attracting substantial transfer fees as its primary measure of success. There may be some mitigating circumstances in the undoubted risk averse approach taken to first team selection stemming from the insecurity of successive managers, bloated squads etc but in all honesty, if they were good enough they would have featured eg Adams and Long (and Adams wasn't an academy product). Reed did better than most and there was outrage when Everton were supposed to be looking to take him. Who wouldn't take half the amount that was rumoured then for Reed now?

Adkins and Clough both spouted their respective versions of the "pathway for Youth" anthem (conducted by McC) but with little real success - I suspect because there was increasing pressure for the Academy to produce to justify its current level of expenditure. The task facing the Academy has got harder (with the poaching and paltry compensation sums) and, with the financial outlay required to maintain it at its current level, someone somewhere in the club must surely must be having a word in young Travis' ear about proving the Academy's value to the club. Yes the new rules on loan deals should help the Academy come into its own as the season gets older, but I hope that the transfer budget and squad size isn't being held back unnecessarily because of the costs of the Academy or its need to demonstrate its worth.

It may be time to start thinking about, like other clubs have done, what benefit the Academy is to Sheffield United FC and the level of Academy we want and can afford.

 

[larkymasher]

I think there is a constant thinking process of whether the academy is beneficial or not in financial way.

Lets say we stay in L1 and close the academy. We are left with a squad of no value ( as it stands now ) No youth team, no U23s, not enough first team to have a reserve team.

Not left with much are we.

There are fair play benefits for having the academy which gives a larger budget to the first team.

Why do you think Man City have spent so much on their Academy. Not any coming into there first team.

 

[albinonick]

What's this u-23s? Is it new? Is it a full league like the u-21s?

The 23's is the old 21's came in this season because the premier league academies were invited into the revamped efl trophy and pl academies play u23's.Our u23's play forest bank holiday monday and fitst team play leicester in efl trophy tuesday night, so i dont expect any of ours playing v leicester.Ramsdale possibly getting splintters on the bench again.

What's this u-23s? Is it new? Is it a full league like the u-21s?

 

[larkymasher]

The 23's is the old 21's came in this season because the premier league academies were invited into the revamped efl trophy and pl academies play u23's.Our u23's play forest bank holiday monday and fitst team play leicester in efl trophy tuesday night, so i dont expect any of ours playing v leicester.Ramsdale possibly getting splintters on the bench again.

What an chance missed to play some young ones.....

 

[DazBlade88]

Whilst we change managers every season in a position where we need instant promotion, the youth will rarely get a chance. Young players make mistakes and with the amount of pressure the first team are under, it could seriously hinder them.

A couple of academy lads could stake a claim at the moment but we'll choose to buy players instead because it's the safer option in our situation.

 

[BushBlade]

The 23's is the old 21's came in this season because the premier league academies were invited into the revamped efl trophy and pl academies play u23's.Our u23's play forest bank holiday monday and fitst team play leicester in efl trophy tuesday night, so i dont expect any of ours playing v leicester.Ramsdale possibly getting splintters on the bench again.

Why would we prioritise winning an u-23s game over a chance for some of them to play first team football? Is the ultimate aim of the academy to produce first team players?
Surely we could play some of the younger or fringe players in the u-23s and play Whiteman, Semple etc in the EFL?

 

[larkymasher]

Whilst we change managers every season in a position where we need instant promotion, the youth will rarely get a chance. Young players make mistakes and with the amount of pressure the first team are under, it could seriously hinder them.

A couple of academy lads could stake a claim at the moment but we'll choose to buy players instead because it's the safer option in our situation.

Why are Charlton, Coventry, Bolton introducing their young players this season? They are all in the same situation as us.

Our youngsters were far more successful last season and the start of this than those other clubs. We will be left with a squad value of zero and no value in any of our youngsters due to not being introduced by the end of this season.

If CW gets it right and i pray he does, then we have nothing to worry about obviously.

.

 

[larkymasher]

Why would we prioritise winning an u-23s game over a chance for some of them to play first team football? Is the ultimate aim of the academy to produce first team players?
Surely we could play some of the younger or fringe players in the u-23s and play Whiteman, Semple etc in the EFL?

I agree Bush, as you would expect.

There is a chance to give 2 or 3 lads a first team debut is the EPL Trophy.

That adds value to these boys straight away with regards the club, even though it is a poor competition.

 

[DazBlade88]

Why are Charlton, Coventry, Bolton introducing their young players this season? They are all in the same situation as us.

Coventry's budget is probably a reason; but as far as I can see Charlton and Bolton have only used players that were involved last season or were on loan in this league at some point.

I do think we need to get more players out on loan playing proper first team football personally. Players like Reed and Whiteman at 19 need games now and if they're not getting a real chance here then they should be asking to go out and impress.

 

[BushBlade]

Why are Charlton, Coventry, Bolton introducing their young players this season? They are all in the same situation as us.

Our youngsters were far more successful last season and the start of this than those other clubs. We will be left with a squad value of zero and no value in any of our youngsters due to not being introduced by the end of this season.

If CW gets it right and i pray he does, then we have nothing to worry about obviously.

.

Charlton kids looked a level above in the final last season Larky, a couple looked more than ready for first team football.
I know nothing about Bolton tbh.
Cov are very skint and I don't think Mowbray has a lot of choice.

I do think some of our kids should be given an opportunity this season if they're working hard but I think we need to get a couple of wins under our belts first. Get the first team settled with a proper pattern of play so it's easier for them to slot in.

 

[Kabba Kabba Doo]

Charlton kids looked a level above in the final last season Larky, a couple looked more than ready for first team football.
I know nothing about Bolton tbh.
Cov are very skint and I don't think Mowbray has a lot of choice.

I do think some of our kids should be given an opportunity this season if they're working hard but I think we need to get a couple of wins under our belts first. Get the first team settled with a proper pattern of play so it's easier for them to slot in.

Another difference between our youngsters and Charlton's is that Charlton's all seemed to be quicker and more physical, we seem to be in a habit of producing weak dwarves at the moment i.e. Reed and Brooks, and DCL and Whiteman aren't exactly well built!

 

[larkymasher]

Charlton kids looked a level above in the final last season Larky, a couple looked more than ready for first team football.
I know nothing about Bolton tbh.
Cov are very skint and I don't think Mowbray has a lot of choice.

I do think some of our kids should be given an opportunity this season if they're working hard but I think we need to get a couple of wins under our belts first. Get the first team settled with a proper pattern of play so it's easier for them to slot in.

The Under 18s final i agree, The u21s semi final at the Valley i would say we were at worst on a par......

Charlton kids looked a level above in the final last season Larky, a couple looked more than ready for first team football.
I know nothing about Bolton tbh.
Cov are very skint and I don't think Mowbray has a lot of choice.

I do think some of our kids should be given an opportunity this season if they're working hard but I think we need to get a couple of wins under our belts first. Get the first team settled with a proper pattern of play so it's easier for them to slot in.

2 of the Charltons u18s in the final last season had already played in the first team Bush. That is why they looked ready for it.

 

[Grizzly blade]

If they are good enough they will play.

Expectations at United are for us to win. Pressure is high. If these lads were tearing up youth football week after week....look a class above they will get a chance first team. Fact.

Not seen the youth team, but I'm going to suggest our youth team successes may be down to better team work, preparations and tactics rather than individual performances winning games.
This means we produce good team players at non league level....rather than quality individuals at league level.

Just my opinion, but I see this as a problem.

As for managers....Clough spent a lot of time with the academy, watched a lot of games and managed to get performances and results when using some youth players.

 

[larkymasher]

Expectations at United are for us to win. Pressure is high. If these lads were tearing up youth football week after week....look a class above they will get a chance first team. Fact.

Its not a fact i am afraid to say.

The fact is that we need to get out of L1. Every new manager that comes in will never put his trust in kids to help get out this league because if we don't go up the chances are that he will get the sack.

If i was in a new managers shoes i would probs do exactly the same.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Larky....i don't agree.

See your point, but there is no way Wilder would not play someone who was clearly ready. Someone clearly way above....I'm talking Rooney...Bale...Walcott....Oxlade Chamberlain...Walker....you get the point.

We aren't producing a player like that at this moment. If we were, we would know about it. I'm sure we have several able to pass the ball, who know systems, are fit and dedicated.....but none with that bit extra we need and they need to make a difference to the first team now.
So as a result the manager keeps faith with those who have done it rather than risk his job giving kids no better than the experienced lads a go.

It's the same at my lads academy. They are constantly looking for better players. My lad has been scouted by a better academy.

 

[larkymasher]

Larky....i don't agree.

See your point, but there is no way Wilder would not play someone who was clearly ready. Someone clearly way above....I'm talking Rooney...Bale...Walcott....Oxlade Chamberlain...Walker....you get the point.

We aren't producing a player like that at this moment. If we were, we would know about it. I'm sure we have several able to pass the ball, who know systems, are fit and dedicated.....but none with that bit extra we need and they need to make a difference to the first team now.
So as a result the manager keeps faith with those who have done it rather than risk his job giving kids no better than the experienced lads a go.

It's the same at my lads academy. They are constantly looking for better players. My lad has been scouted by a better academy.

Obviously pal if you have a talent like Bale, Rooney etc they are going to push on quicker.

My point is that football and the 92 league clubs is not made up of Bales, Walcotts etc, it is made up of normal, professional players who at some point needed to be blooded. Now some of them may develop into quality players after 50 first team games and go on to bigger things. This is by far the more normal route, superstars are fewer and harder to find, its not all about finding one superstar.

Lets not be fooled into thinking if you cant break into any given first team at 18/19 that you are instantly not good enough. You only find this out when they have played first team football.

I do fully understand your point Grizzly

 

[Grizzly blade]

And the majority drop out of the league system.
Some go into non league and as they mature and reach the potential shown in academies and force their way back to pro football.
Some choose other careers.

But in my opinion the players who are getting games at 16/17/18 regularly are the special talents. I agree decent lads who might make good honest pro's at this level need blooding and games. But for me it's out on loan elsewhere and at a lower level than us.
Somewhere where they can make the odd mistake and not be punished for it. Where there's less pressure and an environment more akin to learning from it. After all, making mistakes is still the best way to learn IMHO.

If they cannot handle it in non league/L2 then they can be moved on. We need to get these lads out on loan now. Recall clauses included just in case. Whatever level we can find them...get them out there.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

This site is already in meltdown over the lack of players being bought, despite about 8 already coming in and a couple going out. I can't imagine what it would be like if we didn't buy anyone to focus on the youth. It would no doubt be all part of McCabe's Master Plan to keep us in this division and destroy the club so that he can build some flats on the land....