Young Academy Prospects

[alcoblade]

It is a discussion pal so we are all entitled to an opinion.
Your point is valid although I disagree.
I will roll my neck in if you take your head out of your arse and accept others points of view.

As for Kyle Walker I think he will agree that it was the Sufc Academy set up that got him on his way and his transfer fee helped the club achieve other things ......... What that was is another issue.

Let's accept we disagree and quietly move on to another thread.

Internet bravery, wonderful.

UTB

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Thanks for the numbers re the setup cost. Remember this was a decade Ago through. £5m them would be £8m in today's money, but I was still off there.

We would obviously need somewhere to train but it could be a scaled down version of Shirecliffe.

Charlton are abandonsing the academy. Others don't have them. Watford scaled there's right down, ironically just before they were promoted I believe. What I'm suggesting isn't without precedent.

I wasn't suggesting we had a development squad. I would invest more into young players already at the point of first team action, hence the suggestion of Adams and Murphy.

We could further speculate and send them out on loan if we so chose.

UTB

I think there is certainly a case to be made for reducing the number of age groups at the academy.

Maybe just cherry-pick the best youngsters at 14 including pinching players of other clubs for a pittance as they can pinch ours.

Having an impressive Academy setup and facilities puts us in a good position to do this from lesser academies.

Even if we made cost savings on the academy, I have little confidence that that would then be spent on young signings for the first team instead.

Murphy is a bad example of "investing in youth" really as he was nearly 24, had made nearly 180 appearances and cost us probably £350K. Just a normal common sense signing I would class that as.

We did similar deals for Baxter, Taylor, Brandy, Scougall, Cuvelier and McNulty and only Murphy has really paid off so far.

These were players with relatively high levels of experience and quite expensive for our level but still most weren't successful.

I'm not sure we will be even shopping in that sort of £200-350K bracket any more. More like the free transfers and sub £100K mark like Johns, McGinty, Adams, K.Wallace, J.Wallace, McGahey, Philliskirk, McAllister, Tonne etc etc

 

[larkymasher]

Internet bravery, wonderful.

UTB

Take a compliment and stop being an arse

 

[alcoblade]

Are you pissed ? You started quite well and for some bizarre reason have managed to wind yourself up as the thread progressed.

Where have I been an arse on this thread? Where's the compliment for me to take?

UTB

 

[larkymasher]

Are you pissed ? You started quite well and for some bizarre reason have managed to wind yourself up as the thread progressed.

Where have I been an arse on this thread? Where's the compliment for me to take?

UTB

Not wound up at all pal.

More than once i have been happy to acknowledge your point of you, which is supposed to be a compliment.

All i do on here is give an opinion. Twice i have stated to move on and agree our opinions differ but you keep coming back and i dont know why.

For the last time lets just move on. We all want the same results in the end. I actually cant even remember what we disagreed about now.

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

The problem with academies is that the ones making the decision on kids dont base their decisions on ability alone, attitude appears to count more than ability I'm afraid. I know, I have seen it happen. You have to question the real quality of the kids they push through if we can't produce league 1 standard kids right now. Both Sheffield clubs have examples of kids being released when they needed another year or two to develop. Look at Vardy when he was at the piggies. He always had the ability, good with the ball and had pace yet in the opinion of the coaching staff he was told he was too small, that's it, not that he wasn't good enough, just too small. There have been others too, others that were always good enough but never got the chance. I remember Billy Sharp at the academy and within that team and the year below there were promising players that should have made the grade, why didn't they ? Maybe because at that time we were in and around the premier but they never got a look in. I could rant on and on about this but I just feel that as a league 1 club we should be developing more players that meet the required standard, but we don't. It's not like we are needing premier league standard players is it. I know a few have been in the team in the last season but does that reflect why we finished the season so badly? The academy should be producing first team hopefuls and not players to move on.
The academies benefit the premier league clubs and no one else. I think we would be better sending 16 and 17 year olds out on loan to non league or league 2 to gain experience that the academy games cannot give them.

 

[larkymasher]

The problem with academies is that the ones making the decision on kids dont base their decisions on ability alone, attitude appears to count more than ability I'm afraid. I know, I have seen it happen. You have to question the real quality of the kids they push through if we can't produce league 1 standard kids right now. Both Sheffield clubs have examples of kids being released when they needed another year or two to develop. Look at Vardy when he was at the piggies. He always had the ability, good with the ball and had pace yet in the opinion of the coaching staff he was told he was too small, that's it, not that he wasn't good enough, just too small. There have been others too, others that were always good enough but never got the chance. I remember Billy Sharp at the academy and within that team and the year below there were promising players that should have made the grade, why didn't they ? Maybe because at that time we were in and around the premier but they never got a look in. I could rant on and on about this but I just feel that as a league 1 club we should be developing more players that meet the required standard, but we don't. It's not like we are needing premier league standard players is it. I know a few have been in the team in the last season but does that reflect why we finished the season so badly? The academy should be producing first team hopefuls and not players to move on.
The academies benefit the premier league clubs and no one else. I think we would be better sending 16 and 17 year olds out on loan to non league or league 2 to gain experience that the academy games cannot give them.

I understand it's league one but the expectations of where our club should be and where it actually is is not a platform to bring young players through.
It has to be done when the club is on the up.
Imagine being promoted with 3 or 4 young lads having a small input .... It looks fantastic.
Now look at a mid table side with 3 or 4 young lads in. They will get slaughtered as not good enough ....

Young players need to be exposed when in a winning team.

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

I understand what you are saying Larky but we have been in league 1 for going on 6 years, surely we should have produced more players at this level in that period. In an ideal world we would be in a better position where we can bring players in now and again but we aren't. Since academies started we don't see many naturally gifted players like there used to be and that's because natural ability is frowned at and they are coached to play a team role instead. I can't remember seeing a natural English footballer since ..... Gazza !!! I don't know if you watch the academy play Larky, go and watch, you will see for yourself.

 

[larkymasher]

I understand what you are saying Larky but we have been in league 1 for going on 6 years, surely we should have produced more players at this level in that period. In an ideal world we would be in a better position where we can bring players in now and again but we aren't. Since academies started we don't see many naturally gifted players like there used to be and that's because natural ability is frowned at and they are coached to play a team role instead. I can't remember seeing a natural English footballer since ..... Gazza !!! I don't know if you watch the academy play Larky, go and watch, you will see for yourself.

To be honest pal I watch the academy a lot.
Without question it has been a while since a player came through, that is a fact.
My point is that the expectations of the club is far higher than where we are.
The pressure on managers this far has been to get us out of this league so it's a gamble to chuck some kids in as it's seen as a cheap way to get players and shows lack of ambition to sign a seasoned pro.
You will all see I am a huge fan of the academy but please believer when I say it's not the single answer.

If we have a good winning first team we will see good players from the academy come through and learn there trade in a winning side rather than how it is now where we want them to be the total answer.

I also agree with Alcoblade, I just want out of this shit hole of a league ASAP

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

Fair point Larky, apologies as I didn't see you had said previously that you watch the academy. I agree that the clubs expectations are much higher than our current position but ultimately just a few players off the production line would be nice once in a while. And yes, we need to get out of this shithole of a league ASAP.

 

[Barney]

Is that the small, week, fragile Sufc u18s that smashed Millwall for 5, Hull for 7, double over the pigs, double over Leeds, or the u21s that had the best defensive record in England at that age group ?
Yep...... Small and weak.

What a fucking shit pointless post.

Oh give over with that bullshit. I don't care how many games they win at youth level, the proof is in the pudding and that's producing good first team players. In which, we've failed miserably at in recent times.

A lot of players have been that bad they've just been released (Whitehouse, Ironside, Dimaio, etc.). And the players that have been given a chance have been total garbage. Long excluded on grounds of being bang average.

You obviously watch the academy or have some kind of link to it, which is obvious enough. Doesn't change the truth.

 

[larkymasher]

Oh give over with that bullshit. I don't care how many games they win at youth level, the proof is in the pudding and that's producing good first team players. In which, we've failed miserably at in recent times.

A lot of players have been that bad they've just been released (Whitehouse, Ironside, Dimaio, etc.). And the players that have been given a chance have been total garbage. Long excluded on grounds of being bang average.

You obviously watch the academy or have some kind of link to it, which is obvious enough. Doesn't change the truth.

I agree in recent times the academy has not produced decent players of a high enough quality.

My post was all fact, in your eyes it maybe fucking bullshit but its fact.

Its fine sitting there slagging off young players coming through when i presume you know little or nothing about them. Winning games is a good start i hope you would agree.

As far as last season goes the only player given a chance was Ben Whiteman.

Long is 22 with around 100 first team games under his belt. whether you think he is good, bad or average he is an established first team player.

no matter how good the academy performs or pushes players through you would have a pop at them because they are not Walkers, Naughtons or Magiures that is obvious.

Oh, and your obvious thoughts of any links to the academy is bollocks. I back the academy in what it is trying to do, thats all. Just as your obvious opinion is that it is a bag of shite.

Players coming through have been sparse i certainly cant defend that pal. In that respect you are exactly right.

 

[Grappler]

Well at least one of our ex-academy lads was happy this weekend..........

Otis Khan ️ ‏@OtisKhan63 12h12 hours ago
What a start it's been to my @bfc_official career since signing, hope next season brings more memories like these

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Well at least one of our ex-academy lads was happy this weekend..........

Otis Khan ️ ‏@OtisKhan63 12h12 hours ago
What a start it's been to my @bfc_official career since signing, hope next season brings more memories like these

Back in three seasons at a cost, say £750,000 IF we're in the League above.

IF....
IF.

 

[Barney]

I agree in recent times the academy has not produced decent players of a high enough quality.

My post was all fact, in your eyes it maybe fucking bullshit but its fact.

Its fine sitting there slagging off young players coming through when i presume you know little or nothing about them. Winning games is a good start i hope you would agree.

As far as last season goes the only player given a chance was Ben Whiteman.

Long is 22 with around 100 first team games under his belt. whether you think he is good, bad or average he is an established first team player.

no matter how good the academy performs or pushes players through you would have a pop at them because they are not Walkers, Naughtons or Magiures that is obvious.

Oh, and your obvious thoughts of any links to the academy is bollocks. I back the academy in what it is trying to do, thats all. Just as your obvious opinion is that it is a bag of shite.

Players coming through have been sparse i certainly cant defend that pal. In that respect you are exactly right.

My point is that any run of success in the academy remains useless to the first team, until it is transformed in to good young players in the first team. Surely logic dictates that. Academy wins don't get 3 points on the league one board.

Aside from that, all I've done is point out that what ever has come through has been, on the whole, total garbage. Although you'd probably put it gentler than that, you agree, so unless I'm missing something what's the issue here?

The other point you did seem to make though was that our academy players that have come through haven't been weak, small or fragile. To me it's obvious when you look at those that have come through, that build and physicality standards are a lot lower than what they used to be.

 

[larkymasher]

My point is that any run of success in the academy remains useless to the first team, until it is transformed in to good young players in the first team. Surely logic dictates that. Academy wins don't get 3 points on the league one board.

Aside from that, all I've done is point out that what ever has come through has been, on the whole, total garbage. Although you'd probably put it gentler than that, you agree, so unless I'm missing something what's the issue here?

The other point you did seem to make though was that our academy players that have come through haven't been weak, small or fragile. To me it's obvious when you look at those that have come through, that build and physicality standards are a lot lower than what they used to be.

Cracking point pal.

I am looking at 16/17 year old academy lads who are maybe 1 year behind the likes of Kelly, Brookes, Reed etc who i think have a genuine chance of progressing. They have a strength and genuine passion for the club that could see them push on. I agree its not guaranteed.

They will play U21S next year although very young and i guess that will indicate if they are physically up to the task.

Let me make one point clear. For all my positive feelings for the academy, if we go up next season with no homegrown players in the team i certainly wont be crying in my pint pot.

 

[Barney]

Cracking point pal.

I am looking at 16/17 year old academy lads who are maybe 1 year behind the likes of Kelly, Brookes, Reed etc who i think have a genuine chance of progressing. They have a strength and genuine passion for the club that could see them push on. I agree its not guaranteed.

They will play U21S next year although very young and i guess that will indicate if they are physically up to the task.

Let me make one point clear. For all my positive feelings for the academy, if we go up next season with no homegrown players in the team i certainly wont be crying in my pint pot.

The lad Adebowale, I'll guess you've watched him?

Taking defence for example, now that's the sort of build I'd want in a young centre back coming through.

Obviously you need the technical side to the game, but it doesn't half help when you're built like a brick shithouse.

 

[Balham]

Oh give over with that bullshit. I don't care how many games they win at youth level, the proof is in the pudding and that's producing good first team players. In which, we've failed miserably at in recent times.

[pedant] The proof is not in the pudding, the proof of the pudding is in the eating [/pedant]

The lad Adebowale, I'll guess you've watched him?

Taking defence for example, now that's the sort of build I'd want in a young centre back coming through.

Obviously you need the technical side to the game, but it doesn't half help when you're built like a brick shithouse.

Adebowale definitely ticks the built like a brick shithouse box but he's not one of larkymasher's "genuine passion for the club" brigade - he signed from West Ham 18 months (?) ago.

 

[larkymasher]

[pedant] The proof is not in the pudding, the proof of the pudding is in the eating [/pedant]



Adebowale definitely ticks the built like a brick shithouse box but he's not one of larkymasher's "genuine passion for the club" brigade - he signed from West Ham 18 months (?) ago.

Not sure if you are having a pop Balham regards passion for the club brigade....... just want players that when pulling on the SUFC Shirt it means more than just a wage packet.

Adebowale was big and strong but genuinely got found wanting defensively.

 

[Balham]

Not sure if you are having a pop Balham regards passion for the club brigade....... just want players that when pulling on the SUFC Shirt it means more than just a wage packet.

Absolutely not; it can be the difference between a good United player and a great United player. I know a guy who plays in league one and his verdict on United last season was that the players just didn't care enough - good players who didn't give a shit.

Adebowale was big and strong but genuinely got found wanting defensively.

Past tense: I presume from that he's been released?

 

[larkymasher]

Sorry pal my writing skills a

Absolutely not; it can be the difference between a good United player and a great United player. I know a guy who plays in league one and his verdict on United last season was that the players just didn't care enough - good players who didn't give a shit.


Past tense: I presume from that he's been released?

Sorry pal, i was writing in the past as i watched him last season....... Only passed my 16 PLUS at English !!

i dont know if he is still with the club but i thought he would have been in the U21s squad for the cup final.

 

[Barney]

[pedant] The proof is not in the pudding, the proof of the pudding is in the eating [/pedant]



Adebowale definitely ticks the built like a brick shithouse box but he's not one of larkymasher's "genuine passion for the club" brigade - he signed from West Ham 18 months (?) ago.

I wouldn't dismiss any of his passion just because he came from another academy.

Using that premise, you'd have to do the same with all the new signings coming in to the first team this summer, which I think you'd agree would be rather daft.

He's still been in the set up for a while btw (2 years?).

 

[Balham]

I wouldn't dismiss any of his passion just because he came from another academy.

Using that premise, you'd have to do the same with all the new signings coming in to the first team this summer, which I think you'd agree would be rather daft.

He's still been in the set up for a while btw (2 years?).

Oh I don't doubt that you can be passionate about the club after a short time here (as has been evidenced by comments from several ex-players: cf Greg Halford) but I was referring to Larky's comments about a group of players who are all Blades and have been with us for upwards of 10 years.

I'm not daft enough to write off any signings this summer and am currently preparing the filling for a large humble pie around Wilder's appointment, which I was less than enamoured about.