Will some fans be crying…

[Razor_Blade]

Indeed, I can understand @Razor_Blade’s point; I was wrong to call it bollocks and I apologize for doing so. It was a valid point to make.

Like I said in a post above, I think there is a difference between not going above and beyond and not caring to the point of being a net negative on a team.

Indeed, Selles’ tactics generally made no sense, but I can distinctly remember Burrows being completely exposed and Barry making an, at best, lackluster attempt to get back. Godfrey looked like he just gave up, especially on their first goal. Lazy passes all round. It looked like they just didn't want to be there, and whilst I understand that Selles is to blame for that, I honestly expect better from players, I'd hope they don't completely throw the towel in when things aren't happening. I tend to have sympathy for the players, but it was too glaring for me to ignore. I respect that you feel differently, however.

I think he played players largely out of position, Godfrey is not a RB, Hamer shouldn't be playing so deep, etc

There is an aspect of being out of your natural position, you can be coached what to do and a pro should be "ok" at it but they won't ever excel at it.

The one thing wilder has always got from his teams is, "the team is better than the sum of it's parts" largely by playing to individual strengths, and having them cover each others weaknesses. That just isn't possible when a lot are out of position or uncomfortable in their roles within the side.

 

[knowsnowt]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés?

I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh.

UTB.

Stupid post.
Why the incitement?
If you're really that bored I could send Uncle Susan round to give you something to do.
£5 upfront.

 

[SwissBlade]

There is a serious ? regarding effort.

Amongst worst for duels and pitch coverage. You have to ask why ?

UTB

According to Wilder the stats say otherwise.

Can’t say I’m entirely comfortable with players that throw the towel in if they don’t get their way. Some of them did it last season too.

Fair point. But the two managers had different priorities and standards.

I don’t doubt they were working hard for the system that Selles played, but it just wasn’t about running and winning games of football for Selles…

Let’s see how quickly Wilder gets a tune out of these players

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

let's start with a shot on target first of all

I'm going even more basic than that, let's start with looking like with fielded a midfield (that doesn't get run through with ease).

 

[luffenhamblade]

Fair point. But the two managers had different priorities and standards.

I don’t doubt they were working hard for the system that Selles played, but it just wasn’t about running and winning games of football for Selles…

Let’s see how quickly Wilder gets a tune out of these players

I've no doubt it's possible that some players downed tools, but if I had a manager (in whatever field) who moved people with particular skills to work in other areas and vice versa, I think I'd be completely confused and lose all faith. In any role, confidence in yourself and your leader are both powerful; if the leader appears to have lost the plot, it is difficult for colleagues to work productively.

 

[Cheeky Blade]

Stupid post.
Why the incitement?
If you're really that bored I could send Uncle Susan round to give you something to do.
£5 upfront.

Incitement to what?
Comment?

 

[Gin&Juice]

i’m hoping for a couple of sporadic pitch invasions

 

[JS Blade]

If most people had a new inept manager at work who came in with smoke blown up his backside and ballsed everything up in 6 weeks after a previous year of decent production under a well liked gaffa most people would down tools i think.

Then i also wouldn't be surprised for output / peformance / production to increase again when they brought the decent bloke back who was sacked and knew his workforce well and how they responded to different management techniques.

for me this is transferable and works in offices, production, manufacturing, construction, football. Regardless of the industry there are still people involved and good people value principles.

 

[Cheeky Blade]

I don’t doubt they were working hard for the system that Selles played

Can you tell us what system Sellés played?

 

[JS Blade]

I'm going even more basic than that, let's start with looking like with fielded a midfield (that doesn't get run through with ease).

yeah agreed, been a major problem this. Unfortunately there isnt a candidate in the squad to fix this we we need to find it between 2-3 players.

 

[Kenilworth]

If most people had a new inept manager at work who came in with smoke blown up his backside and ballsed everything up in 6 weeks after a previous year of decent production under a well liked gaffa most people would down tools i think.

Then i also wouldn't be surprised for output / peformance / production to increase again when they brought the decent bloke back who was sacked and knew his workforce well and how they responded to different management techniques.

for me this is transferable and works in offices, production, manufacturing, construction, football. Regardless of the industry there are still people involved and good people value principles.

The best managers set their teams up to succeed. They don’t set them up to fail. It’s as true in business as it is on sport. Selles experimented and achieved the latter.

Interesting in Wilder’s 1 hour interview when he spoke about a piece written by Ancelotti. He stated that he doesn’t know what formation he’s going to deploy when he manages a new team. He’s has to assess the squad, understand their fitness, availability, injury, assess who he can bring in to add to the group and also to consider the way the opposition sets up. He’s flexible, he manages the situation based on the full set of variables. That’s experience. The objective is to win the game.

When you paint by numbers because that’s the academic qualification accepted standard you become inflexible. You shoe horn people into your rigid system by disregarding what they are good at and overlooking what they are not so good at. The system is the focus, not the players and making the whole more effective than the sum of its parts. What’s the outcome you’re looking for if you do that? The reality is that it’s to prove a hypothesis first and foremost and not to win a game of football. The hope (and hope is not a strategy) is that a win comes as a consequence of the system working. When the system fails it all fails.

 

[SwissBlade]

Can you tell us what system Sellés played?

Very good point…

 

[pedro]

Can you tell us what system Sellés played?

A losing system perhaps

 

[Cheeky Blade]

A losing system perhaps

Undeniably.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

It's funny how last year the line was that Wilder had "lost the dressing room". The lack of public statements from players after he left were offered as proof that they didn't want him here. Andre Brooks pre-season comments were further proof, supposedly.

Yet, when Wilder's successor failed, it's because the players downed tools because they are in the CULT OF WILDER?

 

[dexter101]

I do think the players should also use this experience to take a look at themselves and say "what could I have done differently". I don't think they downed tools but once the goal went in against Ipswich, they just became easier and easier for Ipswich to play through, to the point where an under 10 side could have taken the field and probably done the same thing.

Its so hard to tell really what was tactics, what was the players not implementing the tactics and what was players just not trying.

Godfrey constantly didn't just stand off their winger, he practically ran away he gave him so much space, but I thought I saw Brooks when he was dropping back, telling Godfrey to do this? So was this Godfrey doing what his manager had told him to do, or was it that he just isn't a very good Right Back and didn't want to close the player down.

Its clean slate time now, I can't wait to see what reaction the team has on saturday.

 

[CrookesBlade]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés? I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh. UTB.

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés? I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh. UTB.

 

[BarcaBlade]

Does the fish have chips?

Do the chips have fish?

IYKYK

 

[Cheeky Blade]

Do the chips have fish?

IYKYK

 

[Harry's Game]

…if we find ourselves two or three goals up at half time against Charlton because it would be ‘proof’ the players ‘tossed it off’ under Sellés?

I’ve seen the sentiment on here and elsewhere but still find it baffling tbh.

UTB.

I will be amazed quite frankly as we only scored 3 goals in a game twice last season.

I reckon it’s a narrow win, draw or narrow defeat Saturday and that goes for most games from now on.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

yeah agreed, been a major problem this. Unfortunately there isnt a candidate in the squad to fix this we we need to find it between 2-3 players.

I agree. It just shows much of a luxury Souza was to have at this level, when he was fit. He was such a physical presence.

I wonder if it's a Soumare and Matos combination, to provide a combativeness and energy and resting Peck for a bit. Not that Wilder will rest Peck of course, but I wonder if that would be the answer.

 

[Freddie]

Not sure it’s about effort. The players were trying under Selles. It just didn’t work.

Let’s see how we get on as I don’t think it’s so simple

Trying what?

 

[Paisley Blade]

I will be amazed quite frankly as we only scored 3 goals in a game twice last season.

I reckon it’s a narrow win, draw or narrow defeat Saturday and that goes for most games from now on.

5 actually;

Oxford, Boro, Cov.

Followed by a pair of Bristols.