Wilder grateful for boards support

[Barney]

arse


as usuall all these theories seem to be based around the word IF

If we sell dcl or adams
if we re invest
if wilder is happy with that

try and argue the point without the word IF

My whole point was based around the word "if".

Re-read my initial post.

 

[Woodwardfan]

No I don't, I said I understand what he put. Read my words and not your interpretation of them. You have me as some sort of Anti-McCabe loon, but all I am pointing out is that he has failed constantly and consistently yet some still appear to want to hang on his every word and are shocked people don't believe him. I actually want the man to get it right, I want us to be successful but by repeating the mistakes of the past we will just end up treading water at best.

The man consistently gives me enough ammunition and I'm afraid comments like "yeah but look at how much it has cost him" just make me think he is even more stupid and actually knows even less about running a football club than I previously did. If he isn't doing this on purpose then christ it looks even worse.

Like everyone else on here I hope we get it right this time. But we have hung numerous managers out to dry and they have been wrongly blamed for the mistakes of McCabe.


When we do get promoted I expect all the usuals to come out of the woodworkfan and say "I told you Kev was great". As I say, you pin the tail on the donkey enough times you eventually hit its arse.

Hard to misinterpret this following quote:

I get what you are saying Barney, it's simple enough if you want to hear it.

So after all this time I've misunderstood you're not an "anti-McCabe loon". My mistake obviously and I suggest you have softened over the past couple of years and maybe hearing other points of view has helped you, I hope so, like you think you've helped Finlay above. That's the whole point of a fans forums I agree.

 

[blade too long]

My whole stupid point was based around the word "if".

Re-read my trivial post.

yes you used the word may
a derivative of if
we may we might if we sell
all conjecture

 

[Barney]

yes you used the word may
a derivative of if
we may we might if we sell
all conjecture

Yes, that was the basis of my point.

Not to get carried away as we may sell and not reinvest.

 

[Bladesway]

arse


as usuall all these theories seem to be based around the word IF

If we sell dcl or adams
if we re invest
if wilder is happy with that

try and argue the point without the word IF

All theories are based on the word if. Because if something doesn't happen then the theory cannot be tested.

 

[BushBlade]

I don’t think he’s a crook. Just an awful chairman of a football club that has presided over the worst period in our history (and from such a good position when we got promoted to the Prem). He’s also lied to the fans (Beattie Flu) and displayed unbelievable arrogance and contempt towards our support (“supporters don’t know what to look for is a manager- I do”) after making our most ridiculous appointment in living memory (Robson) and was proven to be a fool when the fans’ choice was being carried aloft by his players, champions league trophy in hand whilst Danny Wilson was still waiting for Steve Simmonsen’s penalty to come out of orbit. Yes he’s pumped a lot of money into the club but nowhere near enough to compensate the club for the cost of him stumbling from one almighty fuckup to another whilst claiming to know best.



And one last line just for pommpey something, something, something Desso Pitch.

You're confusing the appointments of Robson and Wilson regarding KM's comments.
Apart from that I tend to agree but would, for the sake of balance, say that running a football club is actually very difficult and KM isn't the only one to get it horrendously wrong. Whilst I'm one of his biggest critics, I accept that I probably wouldn't do any better, in the same way that I'm critical of footballers who are far, far better than I could ever be.

Am I saying cut KM some slack? Maybe but probably not, it comes with the territory. I don't agree with some of the abuse he gets though and like Bladesway, I'd rather him succeed than leave.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

actually was put in a fund for Adkins to use
its that prat that just never used it as he had no clue on who to bring in

So you keep claiming. Can't wait to see the million pound signing we're going to make this summer then.

So far it's been frees and nominal fees to replace the released players with more out than in.

 

[blade too long]

Yes, that was the basis of my point.

Not to get carried away as we may sell and not reinvest.

or may not
which is my point
mine is the current status

 

[1danewhitehouse]

All theories are based on the word if. Because if something doesn't happen then the theory cannot be tested.

Don't be daft. You don't need if so long as you're playing pretend as blade too long does. You just categorically state that Adkins was given millions but didn't spend it because he couldn't decide who to buy. There you. You don't need if to pretend.

 

[blade too long]

All theories are based on the word if. Because if something doesn't happen then the theory cannot be tested.

only negative conspiracy theories are based on if something happens
if nothing happens there no theory
just reality that nothings changed

 

[Barney]

or may not
which is my point
mine is the current status

Yours is the current status, doesn't make it more likely than mine.

I would suggest that on the basis of evidence, mine is much more likely.

 

[blade too long]

So you keep claiming. Can't wait to see the million pound signing we're going to make this summer then.

So far it's been frees and nominal fees to replace the released players with more out than in.

well of course theres more out than in

you cant moan like fuck we have a bloated squad
then moan when we trim it down sorry of course you can
its what being negative is

 

[blade too long]

Yours is the current status, doesn't make it more likely than mine.

I would suggest that on the basis of evidence, mine is much more likely.

what evidence on chris wilders choices have you got

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You're confusing the appointments of Robson and Wilson regarding KM's comments.
Apart from that I tend to agree but would, for the sake of balance, say that running a football club is actually very difficult and KM isn't the only one to get it horrendously wrong. Whilst I'm one of his biggest critics, I accept that I probably wouldn't do any better, in the same way that I'm critical of footballers who are far, far better than I could ever be.

Am I saying cut KM some slack? Maybe but probably not, it comes with the territory. I don't agree with some of the abuse he gets though and like Bladesway, I'd rather him succeed than leave.

I'm not actually but I worded it poorly so it seemed like I was.

The comments came after choosing Wilson over RDM. What made them so ridiculous was that he was the man who appointed Robson before that. And he was arguably proven wrong with the outcome of the two managers' respective seasons (though there are loads of contributory factors there).

I agree it's not easy and they will all get things wrong. But some posters seem to thing that he's some sort of club hero that's been let down by managers and bad luck (a myth he loves). He's actually done lots wrong. Some of it, the benefit of hindsight is needed. Some of it, it's not and was just plain stupid.

 

[BushBlade]

only negative conspiracy theories are based on if something happens
if nothing happens there no theory
just reality that nothings changed

That's total nonsense. How do you think we discovered things like bacteria or evolution?

 

[blade too long]

Don't be daft. You don't need if so long as you're playing pretend as blade too long does. You just categorically state that Adkins was given millions but didn't spend it because he couldn't decide who to buy. There you. You don't need if to pretend.

pretend ,
its not me espousing theories purely based on assumptions something negatives got to happen
because it has on the odd occasion

 

[Barney]

what evidence on chris wilders choices have you got

Doesn't matter. There's plenty of evidence of how the board have acted in the past.

That's what matters, they make the final decisions on these matters, Wilder won't.

 

[BushBlade]

I'm not actually but I worded it poorly so it seemed like I was.

The comments came after choosing Wilson over RDM. What made them so ridiculous was that he was the man who appointed Robson before that. And he was arguably proven wrong with the outcome of the two managers' respective seasons (though there are loads of contributory factors there).

I agree it's not easy and they will all get things wrong. But some posters seem to thing that he's some sort of club hero that's been let down by managers and bad luck (a myth he loves). He's actually done lots wrong. Some of it, the benefit of hindsight is needed. Some of it, it's not and was just plain stupid.

I wouldn't argue with that. Every major decision he's made since relegation has worked out badly for him. If the decision itself hasn't been stupid, the timing of it has made it stupid.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The Murphy fee wasn’t spent on other incomings. Some of it might have funded Dean Hammond’s wages but not all of it as we didn’t bring anyone else in (except Baptiste on loan after we’d shifted a load more out). That fee just went into the black hole that is our operating losses despite Jim’s words.

That's if you don't count Edgar, Sammon, Woolford, Sharp because of timings and then Hammond and Baptiste. Adkins had the 'luxury' of taking plenty of time to assess the bloated squad plus his his signings and the wages of well over 30 players Murphy departed in mid-August and his fee helped cover the costs of those that joined us on top of all the others, probably a £6m wage bill despite the transfer fee income which helped of course.

All those new players were on real money on top of those already there. Murphy desperately wanted to leave and no wonder it happened on top of all that expense with as you say Hammond yet to arrive and Baptiste though the latter was for only a short time.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That's total nonsense. How do you think we discovered things like bacteria or evolution?

We didn't.

It's all a conspiracy.

Come and join me!

http://www.christiansagainstdinosaurs.com/

 

[blade too long]

That's total nonsense. How do you think we discovered things like bacteria or evolution?

mostly by pure chance
and whos to say evolution is 100 per cent right
after all its a best guess scenario ,
even hawkins has admitted hes got things wrong

we all thought continental drift meant the earth was expanding , that's changed
theories are our best guess , at this time
till we know better

 

[blade too long]

Doesn't matter. There's plenty of evidence of how the board have acted in the past.

That's what matters, they make the final decisions on these matters, Wilder won't.

the boards made errors in the past

funny how you forgot it got us to several play offs too ,

wheres that side of a balanced argument gone

our boards picked some shitty managers
theres a lot of other clubs that regretted their choices
thats why managers life span now is 15 months

but other clubs fans , seem to be able to move on
wonder why we dont

 

[Barney]

the boards made errors in the past

funny how you forgot it got us to several play offs too ,

wheres that side of a balanced argument gone

our boards picked some shitty managers
theres a lot of other clubs that regretted their choices
thats why managers life span now is 15 months

We're taking the issue of player sales only.

And in that department, the odds are not in favour of us doing the right thing.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I disagree that they “threw money” at Adkins. They had committed to the contracts under Clough hence the huge wage bill. If you look at all of the ins and outs under Adkins, the net effect was almost certainly positive for the bank balance in terms of both wage bill and transfer fees.

Full season wages for Edgar, Sharp, Sammon, Woolford and over half a season for Hammond on big money. All on top of a bloated squad which included Brayford and Done, Coutts and Freeman, all on good wages. Probably 12 players or so more than we needed to get through the season. No pressure to shift a few out though inevitably numbers had to go by the New Year and then some of those will have been on subsidised wages.

I'd still call the scenario where Adkins was permitted sifnings before departures as very generous and for League 1 levels, "throwing money at it".

Mor so than we are this summer for Wilder, that's for sure. He has to trim the wage bill in amongst his dealings. There was no mention of that for Adkins despite Clough's excesses.

 

[blade too long]

We're taking the issue of player sales only.

And in that department, the odds are not in favour of us doing the right thing.

why
like most league one clubs we occasionally have to sell our assets
we have sold about 5 players we could moan about since 2012

how many other clubs have sold less than us
if I said it was 10

how many players have say Swindon sold , or Coventry , or Millwall

its football , its how it works

 

[BushBlade]

mostly by pure chance
and whos to say evolution is 100 per cent right
after all its a best guess scenario ,
even hawkins has admitted hes got things wrong

we all thought continental drift meant the earth was expanding , that's changed
theories are our best guess , at this time
till we know better

True, theories evolve over time as we develop more accurate measuring and observational instruments but there has to be a hypothesis to test.
People speculated about the existence of bacteria long before we had microscopes to prove they existed. People had statistical data that indicated a link between smoking and lung cancer before they could actually demonstrate why smoking caused cancer.

There's always a 'what if', a 'why'. Some theories are proven and some are disproven but they always begin with a hypothesis.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Regarding your last paragraph. I’m surprised you see it that way as that’s not what has happened in the past with the likes of Murphy and Maguire. Instead, we have been “victims” of player power. The quotation marks are because we allow ourselves to be victims and are not nearly firm enough in these negotiations in my opinion. McCabe constantly telling anyone who will listen how powerless we are to stop it only provides further encouragement to anyone wanting to nab our players on the cheap. If we made an example of one, held them to contract etc. it COULD cause a problem of a sulking player and losing money on that player- then again it might not- said player might get his head down and crack on to earn the move he desires. But it WOULD send a message to the clubs above us and our players and their agents that we won’t roll over and have our bellies tickled every time one of your youngsters fancies a huge wage at a young age sat in PL reserve squads.


It’s worth noting that neither manager has wanted to sell the last 2 star players that were sold and Adkins did not get the benefit of the Murphy money.

My last paragraph that you mention covered the current situation with Lewin and was not intended to compare with the Maguire or Murphy transfers. Similar forces do come into play though and I merely gave an opinion that Wilder will be involved in the value decisions which always have to be made. However in Lewin's case he is not a first choice player and therefore the opportunity to look after the short term rather than have to give the lad a pay-rise to keep him happy for a while certainly alters the dynamics of the dilemma.

 

[BushBlade]

We didn't.

It's all a conspiracy.

Come and join me!

http://www.christiansagainstdinosaurs.com/

I just saw the link and thought 'I didn't realise Pinchy was religious.'

 

[blade too long]

True, theories evolve over time as we develop more accurate measuring and observational instruments but there has to be a hypothesis to test.
People speculated about the existence of bacteria long before we had microscopes to prove they existed. People had statistical data that indicated a link between smoking and lung cancer before they could actually demonstrate why smoking caused cancer.

There's always a 'what if', a 'why'. Some theories are proven and some are disproven but they always begin with a hypothesis.

but Im on about conspiracy theories , that our fans have, and are based entirely on beer talk
these arent based on hypothesis , just a dislike of mccabe , which isnt scientifically valid

 

[BushBlade]

but Im on about conspiracy theories , that our fans have, and are based entirely on beer talk
these arent based on hypothesis , just a dislike of mccabe , which isnt scientifically valid

You can't validate opinion though. If I don't like egg white, I don't like it, no one is going to tell me I do, not even my mum.