Why do Managers without Blades link fail at the lane

[SB_90]

I'd argue success isn't only ever promotion or trophies although that's obviously ideal but building at times. We were completely destroyed by the berge/Ndiaye sales season and had to rebuild. We did. We got 92 points and only two sides getting 100 points did for us. Let's say we best Sunderland in the final does that make the season a success when it's in your eyes now seen as a failure? It's that narrow a margin?

we had a good season last season. but yeah this is harsh. but i would say yes it was a failure because you have to balance it against expectations. we were top of the start of april & proceeded to throw away promotion twice

would you consider arteta reign at arsenal a success

 

[Berkshire Blade]

we had a good season last season. but yeah this is harsh. but i would say yes it was a failure because you have to balance it against expectations. we were top of the start of april & proceeded to throw away promotion twice

would you consider arteta reign at arsenal a success

Considering that they went years without being a title contender I'd say he's done a good job. They are now serious contenders because they didn't throw all the progress away because it didn't work instantly and completely

 

[TJ blade]

because we haven’t really moved on as a club since Bassett left.

The people that have had success here have been motivated leaders happy to take over the whole club (Warnock, Wilder, Heckingbottom, Speed to a certain degree), those that have worked in clubs with a proper organisational structure have really struggled (Selles, Jokanovic, Adkins).

It’s why we need a DoF/Technical Director and a proper separation of duties, that person would define what works and what doesn’t work and then put the relevant support structures in place. When Wilder left the previous two times the club shouldn’t have gone into free fall, someone should have understood why Wilder worked and identity a manager coming through the ranks that fits the mould.

Half the time we employed out of work managers whos failed elsewhere! You reap what you sow!

 

[SB_90]

They are now serious contenders because they didn't throw all the progress away because it didn't work instantly and completely

this is what i scared to say. that in some cases. i think we might be at fault, because if change doesn't happen immediately we want our comfort blanket back

i think slav might have been that case. he deserved at least a full season. on his track record

 

[Razor_Blade]

I'd argue they don't. Kendle had us playing some great stuff as did Spackman even Wilson did. Selling the best players when we were doing well really buggered it. (Ched for Wilson aside but the next season wasn't his fault signings were poor after sales)

The problem always seem to be backing the wrong men. The board seems to allow big names to spend , and blades men only to build a gritty team.

Gritty team united the fans, so they get away with a bit more. We need a blend.

We also never seem to back a manager with a change in philosophy and expect them to work with the squad they have.

Sometimes evolution not revolution is the answer. Pick someone who can work with what we have and can reshape over a few transfer windows. Make progress and buy in comes naturally.

 

[I should coco]

i didnt know he was the manager of those teams at the timing of writing. i only knew danny wilson managed Wednesday. & if you know hartlepool managers off the top of your head fair play to you

success. isn't that getting to a final or getting a team promoted. everything else is failure. nobody aim at the start of the season is to get to a play off final or semi final & lose. with the exception. of if youve taken a team like this seasons Wednesday to 6th place.

& lets not forget we were a huge club in L1. arguably the biggest team in L1 at the time. for me anything other than Top 2 was a failure for any manager we had in L1

You've changed your position again.

After conveniently forgetting Wilson, because he didn't suit your argument, you then said you didn't include him due to a lack success.

I pointed out he had two promotions, but you now don't see this as success.

On the basis he hasn't won the Champions League 5 years on the trot, I'm sure a case could be made for him being a 'failure', but on the real world, how many managers win promotion with 2 clubs.

Feel free to move the goal posts again though.

 

[UddersBlade]

Last 5 promotions -

2022/23 - up to Premier League - Hecky
2018/19 - up to Premier League - Wilder
2016/17 - up to Championship - Wilder
2005/06 - up to Premier League - Warnock
1989/90 - up to Premier League(Old League one) - Bassett

Probably says more about how spoilt we have been over the last 8 years - 3 promotions!!! Total of only 5 over the last 35 seasons in total…. So probably more a reflection of some absolutely rank bad managers over that period rather than just the ‘Bladey Blade’ managers.

 

[SB_90]

You've changed your position again.

After conveniently forgetting Wilson, because he didn't suit your argument, you then said you didn't include him due to a lack success.

I pointed out he had two promotions, but you now don't see this as success.

On the basis he hasn't won the Champions League 5 years on the trot, I'm sure a case could be made for him being a 'failure', but on the real world, how many managers win promotion with 2 clubs.

Feel free to move the goal posts again though.

Because I don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of Danny Wilson’s career, I didn’t know he had those promotions, 1 of them happened when I was 6. I wouldn’t expect you to have perfect football knowledge either, & neither do I.

Also, unless I went to a parallel play-off final to you, when exactly did Danny Wilson win promotion with Sheffield United?

im not knocking anyones career outside of sheffield united. as i said right at the very start. we have some brilliant big name managers with great CVs + bryan robson. that have come to this club & struggled.

 

[I should coco]

Also, unless I went to a parallel play-off final to you, when exactly did Danny Wilson win promotion with Sheffield United?

Once again, you've moved the goal posts. Your 'success elsewhere' criteria, is now success at United.

You then convoniently narrow it further, by seemingly ruling out anything when you were 'young'.

I'm happy to admit defeat here, as I have no intnetion of responding to accomodate your ever changing argument.

 

[Davalon]

100% we were definitely going to struggle regardless of who the manager was, but from memory it seemed to be better under Speed

Bassett told him not to take the job for that reason.

I think his Dad was poorly and he wanted him to see him manage us from what I read.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I just think the expectations of fans and manager sometimes align more readily with local managers or ones that have been in the region. It is not a given

John Harris and Dave Bassett clearly got the club and did fantastic jobs.

John Harris had managed us before the Currie Woodward side though……….

 

[SB_90]

You then convoniently narrow it further, by seemingly ruling out anything when you were 'young'.

I'm happy to admit defeat here, as I have no intnetion of responding to accomodate your ever changing argument.

I don’t claim to have encyclopedic knowledge of every manager’s career & because nobody does, if you can remember football from when you were 6, fair play.

I believe you’ve misunderstood my point, nothing I can do about that, no hard feelings. Just to be clear: my point never changed. I’ve always been talking about what these managers did at United, and measuring success in our context.

I’m not calling anyone’s full career a failure, the clue is in the title. at Sheffield United

 

[Champagneblade]

Is this “one step back” Relegation to League One?

Exactly. Let’s not pretend that Sellés was doing some clever shit us mere mortals just couldn’t understand.

He was crap. It wasn’t even clear what we were trying to do either defensively or offensively.

He had all summer to get his ideas across to a team that had finished 3rd by 14 or so points. If his philosophy takes more than the summer and takes us down to rock bottom of the league then it’s not something worth persevering with.

I understand that Wilder thought Des was coming in potentially as a DoF figure. So I don’t see why he can’t operate in this fashion. If anything he’d probably be glad of the help.

 

[I should coco]

He had all summer to get his ideas across to a team that had finished 3rd by 14 or so points. If his philosophy takes more than the summer and takes us down to rock bottom of the league then it’s not something worth persevering with.

Good point.

He wasn't well supported until the end of the window, but that aside, it was obvious he couldn't get his ideas over to Hamer, Burrows, Campbell O'Hare et al.

High and mighty principles, do not put points on the table.