Why can’t we play 4 at the back?

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Drunk blade said:
Also we currently have 3 centre backs out injured so the less reserve team players and square pegs in round holes in the side the better.
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Interesting view. What’s your side which has less reserve players or players out of position?
If we’d stick with 3 center backs, which is most likely, I count 2 reserves playing (Jags and Bryan) and no square pegs in round holes.
 

Flatulent_Bob said:
Interesting view. What’s your side which has less reserve players or players out of position?
If we’d stick with 3 center backs, which is most likely, I count 2 reserves playing (Jags and Bryan) and no square pegs in round holes
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Flatulent_Bob said:
Interesting view. What’s your side which has less reserve players or players out of position?
If we’d stick with 3 center backs, which is most likely, I count 2 reserves playing (Jags and Bryan) and no square pegs in round holes.
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I'd go with a back 4 jags and Ampadu in the centre Stevens and Baldock at full backs, the wing backs just leaves too much space in behind imo and hasn't been working for some time
 
Drunk blade said:
I'd go with a back 4 jags and Ampadu in the centre Stevens and Baldock at full backs, the wing backs just leaves too much space in behind imo and hasn't been working for some time
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So Ampadu out of position then, given he’s never really played in a central defensive pair?
I don’t see how that is less reserves or not playing the same number of square pegs as keeping the same formation, and we’ve not looked at your midfield yet.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
So Ampadu out of position then, given he’s never really played in a central defensive pair?
I don’t see how that is less reserves or not playing the same number of square pegs as keeping the same formation, and we’ve not looked at your midfield yet.
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Does for Wales
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Not sure he does. Doesn’t he play more in midfield for Wales, certainly recently?
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Have seen him play there in the past when Wales have kept clean sheets put Burke and Osborne on the wings, fleck and Norwood middle and Mcgoldrick and another up front
 
Drunk blade said:
Have seen him play there in the past when Wales have kept clean sheets put Burke and Osborne on the wings, fleck and Norwood middle and Mcgoldrick and another up front
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OK I think he plays a lot more in midfield but no point getting wrapped around the axel.
I think your side has far more reserves and players out of position than keeping the same formation and playing Jags and Bryan.
That has two reserves but everyone playing in their main position, your suggestion has a couple playing out of their regular position and 2-3 reserves.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
OK I think he plays a lot more in midfield but no point getting wrapped around the axel.
I think your side has far more reserves and players out of position than keeping the same formation and playing Jags and Bryan.
That has two reserves but everyone playing in their main position, your suggestion has a couple playing our of position and 2-3 reserves.
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Bryan is a disaster waiting to happen as is Lowe...

Why stick with a formation that's been proven not to work this season, look at the number of 3 on 2, 2 on 2 chances West ham had against us

Theh play with pacy players on the break like Liverpool ... Burnley and villa both beat Liverpool playing a deep sitting back four this season
 
Egan and JOC are the only pairing we have I would somewhat trust in a back 4. Got to stick with the 3.
 
Drunk blade said:
Bryan is a disaster waiting to happen as is Lowe...

Why stick with a formation that's been proven not to work this season, look at the number of 3 on 2, 2 on 2 chances West ham had against us

Theh play with pacy players on the break like Liverpool ... Burnley and villa both beat Liverpool playing a deep sitting back four this season
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That’s not what I’m disagreeing with. I’m disagreeing with your opinion that sticking with the formation means more reserves and square pegs. It doesn’t.

Personally I do not believe we have the personnel to play 4 at the back against Liverpool and not get ripped apart whenever they attack. A 38 year old Jags, and an unfamiliar and an inconsistent Ampadu would be massively exposed regardless of if they try and drop deep or hold a higher line.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
That’s not what I’m disagreeing with. I’m disagreeing with your opinion that sticking with the formation means more reserves and square pegs. It doesn’t.
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So what side would you put out then?
 
Drunk blade said:
So what side would you put out then?
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Well given the injuries there’s no clear or obvious option but for the reasons above I think going to a 2 is absolute suicide. Even with a fully fit side JoC is the only player we have who could comfortably play in a 2 at this level. I know others would site Egan but I’d disagree. We’ve built a team around our players strengths and weaknesses, and Egan thrives in that central role.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Well given the injuries there’s no clear or obvious option but for the reasons above I think going to a 2 is absolute suicide. Even with a fully fit side JoC is the only player we have who could probably comfortably play in a 2 at this level.
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A deep sitting back four gives you more protection against a team with fast players so I disagree

Name your team then let's have a look at it...
 
Drunk blade said:
Name your team then let's have a look at it...
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I’ve pretty much said given I’ve already listed that I’d stick with the formation with Bryan, Jags and Ampadu.
Given I’ve no view on the true level of the kids I’m not sure any are really ready to play at this level, I also have none of the fitness data highlighting who is in the red zone (like Bogle in the last game).
Given that back 5 you’re left with only Fleck, Norwood and Lunny. Maybe a query over Osborne for Fleck but not one I’d go with.
Probably with Dids and Burke upfront, although I wouldn’t object to McBurnie either.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I’ve pretty much said given I’ve already listed that I’d stick with the formation with Bryan, Jags and Ampadu.
Given I’ve no view on the true level of the kids I’m not sure any are really ready to play at this level, I also have none of the fitness data highlighting who is in the red zone (like Bogle in the last game).
Given that back 5 you’re left with only Fleck, Norwood and Lunny. Maybe a query over Osborne for Fleck but not one I’d go with.
Probably with Dids and Burke upfront, although I wouldn’t object to McBurnie either.
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So basically the same team that loses every week....
 

Wait until we get to the cup quarter final when we won’t have. Bash, Egan or Ampadu available...
 
Drunk blade said:
So basically the same team that loses every week....
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Again my disagreement was with your reasoning that we needed to change because it means playing reserves and people out of position. That’s a nonsense.
I’ve said I think it’s a bit of a Hobson’s choice as we don’t actually have many options, but 2 central halves one who’s a 38 year old reserve and the other a young kid out of position isn’t a viable alternative regardless of what you’re trying to do offensively.
Given the squads quality, the injuries and the opposition, you’re shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
Wilder won’t change to the side you’re suggesting not because he’s lost the plot as you think, but because the alternative simply isn’t logical or sensible.
 
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Drunk blade said:
Bryan is a disaster waiting to happen as is Lowe...

Why stick with a formation that's been proven not to work this season, look at the number of 3 on 2, 2 on 2 chances West ham had against us

Theh play with pacy players on the break like Liverpool ... Burnley and villa both beat Liverpool playing a deep sitting back four this season
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There is no proof that the formation doesn’t work, just the players
 
Drunk blade said:
Have seen him play there in the past when Wales have kept clean sheets put Burke and Osborne on the wings, fleck and Norwood middle and Mcgoldrick and another up front
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like that line up play 451 and have goldie in the 5 in the middle with a free role might be tempted to start brewster as the lone striker
 
The evidence to change 3-5-2 system (or let’s be honest 5-3-2) is now overwhelming. We are just so very poor in and out of possession in this system with the current fit players and as Liverpool showed far too easy to break down. We kept the ball better when we went to 4-4-2 and were certainly no weaker (hard to be) out of possession. I just cannot see any sensible logic whatsoever to playing this system again this season given our predicament.
 
We did fine with the ball in the 4-4-2, but you could see why Wilder has concerns with it defensively.

To be honest, it's all a bit rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic at this point.
 
DeanLearner'sCat said:
We did fine with the ball in the 4-4-2, but you could see why Wilder has concerns with it defensively.

To be honest, it's all a bit rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic at this point.
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We should have been 3 or 4 down after the first half but for poor finishing and good goalkeeping from Ramsdale

We kept the ball a lot better with 4 4 2 and actually created a couple of chances .. Its clear as day he needs to change it now
 
What I don’t understand, is surely whatever shape or personnel you play, you can still defend as a team without the ball.
You just have more players on the pitch who can affect it going forward.

The best form of defence is attack - as proved by our countless ‘individual errors’ that we keep bemoaning.

This horrendous shape and approach has turned into the most boring defensive football we could ever wish to see.
 
JKBlade said:
What I don’t understand, is surely whatever shape or personnel you play, you can still defend as a team without the ball.
You just have more players on the pitch who can affect it going forward.

The best form of defence is attack - as proved by our countless ‘individual errors’ that we keep bemoaning.

This horrendous shape and approach has turned into the most boring defensive football we could ever wish to see.
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the thing is as is being shown on this site tonight that our fans have had enough of this system and are just starting to turn on chris for his stubborness on not changing it he has to swallow his pride this set up is finished and he needs to change it next season
 
I personally don't get why people want to go to the basic 4-4-2, it is a outdated formation with hardly any flexibility, we don't have any wide midfielders to play in the formation since we have a bunch of full backs/ wingbacks and central midfielders, also aren't we more likely to ship in more goals with less defenders in the side?
3 -5 -2 or 5 -3 - 2 is a more flexible formation which has done us wonders recently, with this season a blimp but we have had a lot of injuries/ no crowds ect that hasn't helped.
If we are looking into changing formation maybe 4 - 3 -3, with Brewster/ Burke or Mouse as the wide attackers, but I doubt this would happen since Mr Wilder likes to play two up front.
 
Living In a Fantasy World said:
I personally don't get why people want to go to the basic 4-4-2, it is a outdated formation with hardly any flexibility, we don't have any wide midfielders to play in the formation since we have a bunch of full backs/ wingbacks and central midfielders, also aren't we more likely to ship in more goals with less defenders in the side?
3 -5 -2 or 5 -3 - 2 is a more flexible formation which has done us wonders recently, with this season a blimp but we have had a lot of injuries/ no crowds ect that hasn't helped.
If we are looking into changing formation maybe 4 - 3 -3, with Brewster/ Burke or Mouse as the wide attackers, but I doubt this would happen since Mr Wilder likes to play two up front.
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4 - 3 - 3 now your talking but its not gonna happen any time soon
 
If O'Connell and Egan were fit, we might be able to play a 4. But who do you put in midfield???
 
System, system, why won't CW change the damn system? If he did, then what? The impact of all our injuries would disappear and all our out of form players would shine?
We do change the system at least two or three times in most games.
Even with all the injuries, major and minor, plus all the players out of form, having s system all players new and old are familiar with provides some stability at the start of any game.
Even with two loans I doubt we could have overcome all the above.
I just want my team to try to play football and am ready for the challenge of the Championship.
But, if we do make it back up the Prince will need to find more resources if we want to stay up, I'd rather not join the Burnley yoyo.
 

Second half we were 442 against Southampton and it crippled us. If you didn’t see that then there’s no help.
It’s been tried and failed.
 
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