Where will we finish?

[oldblade]

*cough* Preston *cough*

*cough* Greg Halford *cough*

*cough* 1-0 *cough*

Yes, I was editing the post as you were replying. Leaves us winning 3 out of 13. Still not a record to inspire confidence.

 

[Guesty]

Very true. Our record of "vital last games" since 70-71 is as follows:

1971: Needed to beat Watford to get promotion. Did so 3-0
1981: Needed to draw with Walsall to stay up. Lost 0-1 and went down.
1984: Needed to beat Newport to have a chance of promotion. Did so and ultimately went up
1988: Needed to beat Bristol City by 2 goals to get through to the play off final and have a chance of staying up. Drew and were relegated.
1990: Needed to win at Leicester to go up. We did.
1994: Needed to draw at Chelsea to stay up. We lost and went down.
1997: Needed to beat Palace in the play off final to go up. We lost.
1998: Needed to avoid defeat at Sunderland to get to the play off final and a chance of promotion. We lost.
2003: Needed to beat Wolves in the play off final to go up. We lost.
2007: Needed a draw with Wigan to stay up. We lost and went down.
2009: Needed to beat Burnley in the play off final to go up. We lost.

Arguable cases are 1979 (when a win over Leicester would have given us a slight chance of staying up; we drew and went down, but would have gone down even if we had won), 1989 (when we needed to avoid a heavy defeat at Bristol City to go up - we lost 0-2 and went up) and 1993 (when we effectively needed to avoid a double figures defeat v Chelsea to stay up. We won 4-2).

In the clear cut cases our records is 9 failures and 3 successes in those vital last games :-(

On the other hand, in the seasons where we lost in the play-off finals we'd already successfully negotiated potential "vital last matches" - Drawing 2-2 or over at Ipswich, beating Forest aet and beating Preston. So it's a bit one sided to include Bristol City and Sunderland and not the successful play-off semi finals.

 

[Rustyrobin]

champions. charlton are overdue a sticky patch.. their results might suggest they are running out of steam

STEAM! We can't even switch the fooking kettle on at the moment. You'll be champions and we'll creep accross the line relying on our defense to get us 16 draws...it's all wrist slitting over on CL.

 

[Guesty]

STEAM! We can't even switch the fooking kettle on at the moment. You'll be champions and we'll creep accross the line relying on our defense to get us 16 draws...it's all wrist slitting over on CL.

You're underestimating two things here.

1) Your typical Blade's belief in United's capacity to fuck it up royally.

2) United's actually capacity to fuck it up royally.

I'll be beyond shocked if we get first. I'm almost certain we'll lose on Sunday which will leave us, probably, 10 points adrift.

 

[Rustyrobin]

You're underestimating two things here.

1) Your typical Blade's belief in United's capacity to fuck it up royally.

2) United's actually capacity to fuck it up royally.

I'll be beyond shocked if we get first. I'm almost certain we'll lose on Sunday which will leave us, probably, 10 points adrift.

I dont live in London so don't make many home games so hard to judge performances, but many are now saying it was a better performance than of late...add to that Solly was a very late ommision, we didnt have JJ, Powell is still learning plus we play better against stronger teams...so maybe I'm a little guilty of being a doom merchant also. Looks like we will have both JJ and Solly back for Saturday so if we win, please, please do the Wendies as I don't care about being Champions, just out of this dogshite league...

 

[ThatJa]

I said outside play offs, cos what i say they normally do the opposite.

 

[Grecian2000]

On the other hand, in the seasons where we lost in the play-off finals we'd already successfully negotiated potential "vital last matches" - Drawing 2-2 or over at Ipswich, beating Forest aet and beating Preston. So it's a bit one sided to include Bristol City and Sunderland and not the successful play-off semi finals.

I don't think it is. You get many "vital" games in a season but only 1 final game. Getting to the Play-off final means absolute Jack shit if it ends in defeat because next season you are exactly where you were the season before.

It's a bit like the old saying "It's the final ball that's the problem". Of course it is because if you'd found a man it wouldn't have been the final ball.

There's a very good reason why no-one has gone for "going up through the play-offs"! Let's hope we don't have to put it to the test this season.

 

[oldblade]

charlton play stevenage on saturday , be of interest if stevenage win and we can move within 1 win on sunday

I feel that our interests are best served if Charlton beat Stevenage. The more points those teams behind us drop the better it is for us.

If we are fortunate enough to go up automatically by finishing second I will shed no tears over not winning the title.

 

[Guesty]

I don't think it is. You get many "vital" games in a season but only 1 final game. Getting to the Play-off final means absolute Jack shit if it ends in defeat because next season you are exactly where you were the season before.

It's a bit like the old saying "It's the final ball that's the problem". Of course it is because if you'd found a man it wouldn't have been the final ball.

There's a very good reason why no-one has gone for "going up through the play-offs"! Let's hope we don't have to put it to the test this season.

Including Semis when they turn out to be the last game and not including them when they're not seems to be cheating. The only reason they were the final game against City and Sunderland is because we lost the ties. As soon as you win them, they ceasr to be "final" games. But we still won three of them.

 

[oldblade]

Including Semis when they turn out to be the last game and not including them when they're not seems to be cheating. The only reason they were the final game against City and Sunderland is because we lost the ties. As soon as you win them, they ceasr to be "final" games. But we still won three of them.

We won three of them in that we were the team that went through on 3 occasions. But we only actually scored more goals than the opposition on two of those occasions.

We drew both matches against Ipswich, going through on the away goals rule that was in force at that time. If the same rule had applied in 2003 we would have gone out to Forest.

 

[Selly]

We won three of them in that we were the team that went through on 3 occasions. But we only actually scored more goals than the opposition on two of those occasions.

We drew both matches against Ipswich, going through on the away goals rule that was in force at that time. If the same rule had applied in 2003 we would have gone out to Forest.

If the same rule had applied in 2003, you wouldn`t have seen both sides settle for extra time with 10 mins to go though, would you...

---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

I feel that our interests are best served if Charlton beat Stevenage. The more points those teams behind us drop the better it is for us.

If we are fortunate enough to go up automatically by finishing second I will shed no tears over not winning the title.

Given that Stevenage have lost to Notts County, I think I'd rather they beat Charlton, lets turn a 1 from 3-5 equation into a 2 from 4-6 one...

 

[Darren]

We won three of them in that we were the team that went through on 3 occasions. But we only actually scored more goals than the opposition on two of those occasions.

We drew both matches against Ipswich, going through on the away goals rule that was in force at that time. If the same rule had applied in 2003 we would have gone out to Forest.

No we wouldn't. In 1997 away goals applied only after extra time. So the Forest game would still have gone to extra time in 2003, just as the Ipswich game did in 1997.

 

[oldblade]

No we wouldn't. In 1997 away goals applied only after extra time. So the Forest game would still have gone to extra time in 2003, just as the Ipswich game did in 1997.

I'd forgotten that. Knowing that we didn't actually benefit from the rule change against Forest has made the memory of that game even sweeter!

 

[Darren]

I'd forgotten that. Knowing that we didn't actually benefit from the rule change against Forest has made the memory of that game even sweeter!

I suppose it did alter things a bit as, in 2003, Forest had to score in extra time if they were to avoid penalties, whereas in 1997, we knew that a backs to the wall defensive performance would see us through.

 

[Kenilworth]

we knew that a backs to the wall defensive performance would see us through.

Not many times you can say that about us