What the management have got to do now

[The Bear]

There is a pattern emerging here and that is losing points from a point earning situation.

a. Got level V Forest then lost 1-2
b. Got level V City then lost 1-2
c Got ahead V Everton then drew 2-2
d Got ahead V Spurs then lost 1-2

So if highly optimistic we have given 7 points away. That's bad news. In realty 4 points might have been more realistic to what we have lost so we should out of that lot had 4 points not 1.

I am sure those who have seen those games will point to why they panned out as they did but this pattern is worrying. We cant keep on doing this otherwise Talkshite aka Talksport will be right.

We have scored in all but one PL match (Wilder lovers please note) so we have not been out of games. But we got to turn this around and fast. Stop giving points away!!

I reckon we might beat the barcodes on Sunday. FFS we deserve a bloody win.

 

[Houston_Blade]

There is a pattern emerging here and that is losing points from a point earning situation.

a. Got level V Forest then lost 1-2
b. Got level V City then lost 1-2
c Got ahead V Everton then drew 2-2
d Got ahead V Spurs then lost 1-2

So if highly optimistic we have given 7 points away. That's bad news. In realty 4 points might have been more realistic to what we have lost so we should out of that lot had 4 points not 1.

I am sure those who have seen those games will point to why they panned out as they did but this pattern is worrying. We cant keep on doing this otherwise Talkshite aka Talksport will be right.

We have scored in all but one PL match (Wilder lovers please note) so we have not been out of games. But we got to turn this around and fast. Stop giving points away!!

I reckon we might beat the barcodes on Sunday. FFS we deserve a bloody win.

It’s difficult to blame the management team when they have no choice but to weaken the team with the subs they make.

Look at the subs available to most other teams in the league and it’s to change a game or to effect a game.

We are making subs because people are cramping up after 70 mins and then having to bring on worse players to replace them.

The blame for this lies either with the conditioning staff with the poor fitness levels or the leadership of the club for the lack of preparedness for the season.

 

[Keen Blade]

When you're trying to see out a game a lower quality player with fresh legs must be better than a higher quality one who is so knackered he can hardly move.

 

[Stretch]

I hope that today's training was upbeat, and PH made sure the lads realise that they really are mixing it up with the best.

We have run the two best teams in the league very close. And before anyone counters that with comments about possession, chances conceded and were it not or Wes etc etc... I can guarantee that not many teams will come away from City or Spurs this season with a -1 goal difference.

It is unfortunate that we haven't been able to hang on, bloody infuriating actually in relation to Spurs and Forest, but I can honestly say that we are looking better in every game.

Like the OP, I fancy us to get something against Newcastle and wouldn't be surprised if we got at least a point from West Ham or Fulham. I am also very confident that we can turn Manure over at the moment. Then I watched Everton largely nullify Arsenal yesterday and frankly if they can give them a game, we certainly can.

I will be surprised and disappointed if we aren't in a much healthier position by the end of October.

 

[Loco Blade]

Isn’t squad depth an issue here . Not having the resources to influence a game late on with subs . Foden came on for City and basically won it for them . Don’t think we could fill the bench vs Everton ?

 

[SwissBlade]

When you're trying to see out a game a lower quality player with fresh legs must be better than a higher quality one who is so knackered he can hardly move.

That’s the big issue for me and it's not straight forward to solve... or solve at all

All teams we’ve played have been able to bring on quality from the bench and they’re able to affect the game in a positive way with those players.

We’ve had fitness issues and I think the individual players are now getting fitter, so going forward that should be less of a problem as players get back up to speed.

This has resulted in tired / injured players being replaced with lesser quality rather than higher or equal quality.

Our squad is very lean and whilst its evolving, we don't have a second XI which can equal the first XI. This will take time, but with a fully fit squad we have some good quality that should come from the bench... this might be a while off

We're not going to be in a position to replace a World Cup player like Son with another World Cup player like Richarlison....

Wilder used to talk about the number of subs being a big issue... We now have bigger benches and 5 subs per game, this benefits bigger teams with their very expensive squads, but also adding so much time on means that smaller teams will tire by the end of the game...

Its not a level playing field, we just have to work with what we have

 

[AgaMonkey]

We’re not a million miles away from being competitive in this league,..but we need bigger, faster, stronger, fitter players.
I’m not sure how we achieve that in the short-term, but it has to be the way forward for us
I think we’re discovering that our “Out run, out fight, out play” mantra is not so straightforward in this division

 

[Badger Blade]

The fact that we're scoring goals is a positive and is something we thought we'd struggle with but based on current form, hasn't been the case.

We ideally needed another CB to either oust Egan or cover Anel because we've already seen way too much of Chris Basham than we should have this season. His race is run and should be nothing more than 3rd choice and be wheeled out for cup ties.

Considering the lack of possession we'll have and the amount of defending we'll be doing, my belief is that we focus on getting the best defenders we have on the field. Whether he's right or left footed is less of an issue.

 

[Bell4]

When you're trying to see out a game a lower quality player with fresh legs must be better than a higher quality one who is so knackered he can hardly move.

Not if the opponent brings on players who are of a much higher quality than the ones we bring on

 

[Bell4]

We’re not a million miles away from being competitive in this league,..but we need bigger, faster, stronger, fitter players.
I’m not sure how we achieve that in the short-term, but it has to be the way forward for us
I think we’re discovering that our “Out run, out fight, out play” mantra is not so straightforward in this division

Not a million miles away apart from needing bigger , faster , stronger , fitter - and dare I say it - better ? players than those we have

Feels like a million miles to me

The prem is all as you point out we need much more this time around - the gap is staggering especially the last third / quarter of games

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

I hope that today's training was upbeat, and PH made sure the lads realise that they really are mixing it up with the best.

We have run the two best teams in the league very close. And before anyone counters that with comments about possession, chances conceded and were it not or Wes etc etc... I can guarantee that not many teams will come away from City or Spurs this season with a -1 goal difference.

It is unfortunate that we haven't been able to hang on, bloody infuriating actually in relation to Spurs and Forest, but I can honestly say that we are looking better in every game.

Like the OP, I fancy us to get something against Newcastle and wouldn't be surprised if we got at least a point from West Ham or Fulham. I am also very confident that we can turn Manure over at the moment. Then I watched Everton largely nullify Arsenal yesterday and frankly if they can give them a game, we certainly can.

I will be surprised and disappointed if we aren't in a much healthier position by the end of October.

Both Bournemouth and Chelsea looked shite yesterday too. We’ll have ‘em.

 

[Bladesman]

Get players back fit.

 

[Snowflake]

There is a pattern emerging here and that is losing points from a point earning situation.

a. Got level V Forest then lost 1-2
b. Got level V City then lost 1-2
c Got ahead V Everton then drew 2-2
d Got ahead V Spurs then lost 1-2

So if highly optimistic we have given 7 points away. That's bad news. In realty 4 points might have been more realistic to what we have lost so we should out of that lot had 4 points not 1.

I am sure those who have seen those games will point to why they panned out as they did but this pattern is worrying. We cant keep on doing this otherwise Talkshite aka Talksport will be right.

We have scored in all but one PL match (Wilder lovers please note) so we have not been out of games. But we got to turn this around and fast. Stop giving points away!!

I reckon we might beat the barcodes on Sunday. FFS we deserve a bloody win.

I am not sure what you are suggesting the management should do.

 

[The Bear]

I am not sure what you are suggesting the management should do.

I dont doubt that they are aware, but they need to find a way of hanging on.

Found some of the posts enlightening. I appreciate that because it is about discussion as much as opinions. UTB.

 

[Carlton Blade]

If “better conditioning” was the answer surely the best teams would just ensure their best players are better conditioned?

Instead, they tell certain players to go all out for 70 mins rather than conserving energy because they have almost equivalent replacements

 

[BobblesBlade]

I think when we go ahead we should play 5-0-5 long ball formation.
Have 5 players stood at the half way line and when under attack as soon as we get the ball boot it up front. Do em on the counter.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

Defend better.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Win

 

[Keen Blade]

We’re not a million miles away from being competitive in this league,..but we need bigger, faster, stronger, fitter players.
I’m not sure how we achieve that in the short-term, but it has to be the way forward for us
I think we’re discovering that our “Out run, out fight, out play” mantra is not so straightforward in this division

Bigger faster stronger fitter ?
Feckinell we've been saying this for years.
Remember Wilder talking about pace power & aggression?
Having recruited anything but.
And who do we recruit ?
Tiny Traore , who's completely mismatched in this league.
And a load of players who are said to be either "development players for the future" or currently short of fitness.
And who do we give contracts to ?
Fleck & Osborn.
The OP asks What should the management do now ?
After our summer recruitment and injuries to 30% of the squad , there is sweet FA they can do.
Which is probably why Hecky ended up uncharacteristically ranting about refs.
Probably the only thing he could do is chuck on more subs when he's got exhausted players.
Our available squad is paper thin.
Either we have recruited players whose bodies aren't up to scratch or we have done something wrong in training - as a newly promoted club with bare bones finances , we are already unlikely to survive - but to do so with 30% of our 32 man squad out injured would be nothing short of a miracle.
Actually , that's what the management can do - pray for a miracle

 

[reedy63]

Cut the mistakes out and we will be alreght

 

[Th!stledo]

It’s difficult to blame the management team when they have no choice but to weaken the team with the subs they make.

Look at the subs available to most other teams in the league and it’s to change a game or to effect a game.

We are making subs because people are cramping up after 70 mins and then having to bring on worse players to replace them.

The blame for this lies either with the conditioning staff with the poor fitness levels or the leadership of the club for the lack of preparedness for the season.

The fitness level may be an issue for some but not all the players. The intensity and focus spent mainly defending against a stronger and superior team is energy sapping and tiring. To then see the opposition bringing on quality substitutes with fresh legs must be very daunting.

The good news is that our survival in this league is not dependant on us getting points from the elite in this division. There are a few other teams who are facing the same challenge and our main goal is to stay in front of three of them at the end of the season. UTB!!!

 

[mattbianco1]

When you're trying to see out a game a lower quality player with fresh legs must be better than a higher quality one who is so knackered he can hardly move.

I get what you're saying, but Spurs scored after we had brought on the fresh legs to see out the game.

Bogle for Trusty
Davies for Hamer

Yes their legs were fresher, but with the Trusty sub in particular, this meant 2 players had to change positions with 4mins + stoppage time remaining.

Basham (RCB to RWB)
Anel (CB to RCB)

Davies also can't carry the ball like Hamer can.

Hindsight is great, but we had defended so well for 86mins for it all to fall apart after the "defensive" changes

 

[mattbianco1]

Isn’t squad depth an issue here . Not having the resources to influence a game late on with subs . Foden came on for City and basically won it for them . Don’t think we could fill the bench vs Everton ?

Definitely.
We brought on Trusty and Davies to see out the game.

Tottenham brought on Johnson, Richarlison, Perisic, Royal and Hojberg to win the game !

 

[petcharlie]

That’s the big issue for me and it's not straight forward to solve... or solve at all

All teams we’ve played have been able to bring on quality from the bench and they’re able to affect the game in a positive way with those players.

We’ve had fitness issues and I think the individual players are now getting fitter, so going forward that should be less of a problem as players get back up to speed.

This has resulted in tired / injured players being replaced with lesser quality rather than higher or equal quality.

Our squad is very lean and whilst its evolving, we don't have a second XI which can equal the first XI. This will take time, but with a fully fit squad we have some good quality that should come from the bench... this might be a while off

We're not going to be in a position to replace a World Cup player like Son with another World Cup player like Richarlison....

Wilder used to talk about the number of subs being a big issue... We now have bigger benches and 5 subs per game, this benefits bigger teams with their very expensive squads, but also adding so much time on means that smaller teams will tire by the end of the game...

Its not a level playing field, we just have to work with what we have

Spot on the rules allowing all these subs is a big advantage to the top six clubs ,with world cup footballers on the bench how are smaller clubs with academy youths on their bench supposed to compete . Now that games can be 16 mins longer than before smaller clubs dont have much of a chance .Having said that the lads are getting better every match so i am not to dispondent ,we have played the top two teams in the league and given them both a scare .Even with knacked players and a injury list as long as your arm the performances have been good .Well done lads it will come just keep believing .

 

[SwissBlade]

Spot on the rules allowing all these subs is a big advantage to the top six clubs ,with world cup footballers on the bench how are smaller clubs with academy youths on their bench supposed to compete . Now that games can be 16 mins longer than before smaller clubs dont have much of a chance .Having said that the lads are getting better every match so i am not to dispondent ,we have played the top two teams in the league and given them both a scare .Even with knacked players and a injury list as long as your arm the performances have been good .Well done lads it will come just keep believing .

It's a bit of semantics, but the game was actually 20 mins longer as there was 4-5 mins added in the first half.

We have a big january ahead of us if we're still in touch of staying up.

Something which Burnley have done is brought in number, especially in midfield. So this may well have an impact further in the season.

The benefit we have is that we will have players returning from injury to freshen things up

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

There are a number of issues to be addressed.

1. We have scored in all but one game. On the flip side we have conceded two goals in all but one game.

2. The goals we have conceded have been through poor defending but for arguably two of them. School boy individual errors that should have been addressed by now. This started in pre-season.

3. Hecky doesn't appear to have a plan B, and despite teams dominating possession and 3x more shots on goal than us, he refuses to change formation or tactics until the inevitable first goal goes in, not that plan A is great, as it's park the bus and try not to lose. He seems to think that while it remains 0-0 everything is fine, when the blind cam see that it's only a matter of time untol opponents score. We can't rely on smash and grab 1-0 wins against the run of play. These will come few and far between and we need to consistently pick up points every other game. So far it's 1 in 5, and no we haven't been unlucky in all of them. We've been victims of our own undoing.

4. Players still look unfit and incapable of finishing 90 minutes despite a pre-season, which isn't helped by the constant pressure they are under all match by parking the bus, except second half against Forest and Everton. Hecky's late subs don't help them.

I don't believe in all this we're just having bad luck. Against Palace we deserved to lose from start to finish. Against Forest we deserved a draw overall but threw it away with schoolboy poor defending, but a draw only, nothing more. Against City we parked the bus and tried to get 0-0. It was inevitable that we would concede as they upped the pressure after half time. When they did inevitably score Hecky then removed the leash and tried to have a go at them. We threw a draw away once again, but didn't deserve anything more. Against Everton we were our own worst enemies. Deservedly took the lead then tossed it away again through poor defending. Yet more schoolboy errors. Against Spurs it was a repeat of the City game, only Hecky had no intention of attacking. He did nothing to try to counter Spurs and made no changes to formation or tactics. We undeservedly went in front against the run of play then threw it away through .... wait for it.... more poor defending.


We have problems and it's not down to bad luck. Hecky needs to come up with a plan B and willingness to change formation or tactics before we go behind and not after. Against Spurs he could have taken off McBurnie or Archer for Norwood and put Norwood and Souza in front of the back four as extra protection. Why play McAtee and Hamer if you have no intention of using them? Before the match he said we would go there and try to win. Nothing about the way we played suggested that. He ran scared of them from the first minute to the last and gave them way too much respect. He needs to grow a pair of balls as 1 point from 5 matches is poor. He has to take some responsibility for these results and his own poor tactical decisions and poor substitutes. Our best players this season have been Robinson and Foderingham which speaks volumes really.

I'm not saying sack Hecky as I don't believe there is a manager out there who can keep us up. But I'd at least like to see us try to win matches. I'd rather see us try to play and lose 3-0 than see us sit back for 90 minutes, parking the bus, not string two passes together, not get out of our half and lose anyway.

We should be on 5 points by now based on overall performance. 1 against Forest, 1 against City and 3 against Everton. I don't agree that we deserved at least a point against Spurs as we did nothing all match except for the goal, which was completely against the run of play. Instead we're on 1 and I haven't seen anything to suggest that anything will change. The only saving grace is that Luton are making us look better, though they're only 1 point ahead of them, so in no real position to call them poor.

 

[petcharlie]

It's a bit of semantics, but the game was actually 20 mins longer as there was 4-5 mins added in the first half.

We have a big january ahead of us if we're still in touch of staying up.

Something which Burnley have done is brought in number, especially in midfield. So this may well have an impact further in the season.

The benefit we have is that we will have players returning from injury to freshen things up

hope you are right about our injured players returning .

 

[Harry's Game]

So what we are saying is next summers video won’t be called Outrun, Outfight, Outplay ?

 

[diode_blade]

Well if we have to wait for our first win like the 90/91 season under DB in December, so be it, until the win over forest we had just accumulated 4 points in 16 games.

I would settle for the same again if we went on a run like we did in that second half of the season.
Kop was rocking that night

 

[Boxer Blade]

Cut the mistakes out and we will be alreght

Fuckin ell, never thought of that, brilliant, somebody tell Hecky and his staff, cut out mistakes and we're ok, ever thought of taking coachingi/management as a full time job?
Just as an aside how would you propose doing that, you know, as an expert.