West Ham 2 United 0 - report

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Servigliano said:
We've been hammered 2 games in a row. Hamer has been one of our better players, especially given the fact that our midfield is a bit of a mish mash.
It's interesting that according to the BBC player votes Hamer comes top at 5.44.
Maybe the knives are out too soon.
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Are you genuinely arguing a case that Hamer was good because he scored 5.44/10? That means he was rated as below average, effectively crap, but not as crap as everyone else. 🤣

West Ham's worst player on the BBC scored 6.15, so he was their crappest and least effective player, but was still better than Hamer.

Straw clutching.

Hey, yesterday was a great day for the Blades because we only lost 2-0 instead of 8-0. Same deluded logic.
 
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Lightsoot said:
I call it as I see it.
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You sure do.

www.s24su.com

McAtee pants down

Go on, I’ll go first. Citeh have had our pants down with his lad, He’s not ready for the Championship. He’s too weak and wet behind the ears, with zero league experience behind him. He needs a league one or league two loan to get some experience. The new Foden he ain’t. And if he was City...
www.s24su.com www.s24su.com
 
Servigliano said:
We've been hammered 2 games in a row. Hamer has been one of our better players, especially given the fact that our midfield is a bit of a mish mash.
It's interesting that according to the BBC player votes Hamer comes top at 5.44.
Maybe the knives are out too soon.
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I think he has been poor in most games but has scored two great goals. General play he goes missing. Seems not fit enough for this level.
 
Cheers DB. Wouldn’t worry about the misplaced and out of order “criticism” above. We’re all hurting and looking for something or someone to blame.

Report is hard reading, but seems fair. This sentence “The Blades lack belief, heart, and ability at this level” hits home and really hurts.

Hope Baldock returns soon and is able to bring a bit of all three into the side.

UTB
 
Thanks for the report DB. Having read your reports for many years, and not being able to get to matches, they are invaluable to me. In my view they are balanced and informative. You do them for free, and it must take you a long time, so I'm not sure what people expect!

It's a strange time being a blade. In the Championship it's enjoyable seeing us near the top of the league, and dreaming of the promised land. But when we get there it's depressing, because we can't compete. I'm not sure I buy-in to the gulf between divisions because other teams have managed to stay up. But it's certainly not the most fun time knowing we'll be losing most weeks.
 
Deadbat said:
Subs –



Basham 5/10 – Not sure he was worse than any of the other defenders and at least kept it simple or did not make any big mistakes. He competed more and he came out with the ball a few times. Also set up the Anel chance.



Davies 4/10 – Did run around a fair bit even though he looks woefully unfit. His second touch is a tackle. I maybe would just play him now for a period of games. He might improve and his conditioning might get better but he does not look the answer but normally comes on when the games have gone to be fair to him and he is not a creative player.



Trusty – Not sure I saw him really touch the ball. Once he switched off and lost his man as they nearly got a third. Maybe we give him a game but not sure he changes the needle much defensively. He may have to play now if Egan is out.



Slimane – One of the bright spots. Tried to play forward and had two efforts. He probably deserves a start ahead of Souza, Hamer and/or McAtee on that evidence. Least he was positive!



Brewster – Did not pull his hamstring at least. Not sure he had a kick I can recall! At least he gives us a senior striker I suppose but without us getting up the field he too will field on scraps.



Manager: Heckingbottom 3/10 – Another dispiriting performance. We came out and conceded a corner on 30 seconds and then were under the cosh and should have trailed. We were so deep and seemed scared to attack in case we got undone on the counter. We did not attack and still conceded chances. If West Ham are more clinical we are 4 or 5-0 down. We had no real identifiable style of play and seemed to be just kick it to McBurnie and hope he can keep it or win a long throw in chance. The likes of Hamer and McAtee may get excused but I thought they had a fair bit of the ball but just got outmuscled or lost it cheaply. We cannot keep blaming the defence all the time. We have to look at the whole set up of the side and all the players. I worried at 2-0 it could go on and be a hammering so at least we avoided that but it was an insipid showing and we never looked like getting back. West Ham just conserved energy and coasted to the win. He kept faith with the side but then he is playing almost our strongest side so not sure the selections can be questioned too much (maybe Trusty deserves a go and possibly Slimane now) but he seems clueless how to get the side playing higher up and hurting teams. We have not had a spell of pressure or controlled a game (Even for 5 mins) in any game. That is a worry.



Maybe it is on the manager and tactics but I think that masks what I have said above. The players are just not at this level. We can blame Hecky all we want but it’s not him that sees McAtee and Thomas switch off 2 or 3 times (finally they score). It’s not him that gives them the ball so easily (Hamer, McBurnie, Souza – lots of them). We can argue he signed these players but was he going to get much better than what he could with the money we had? I would have gone for much physical and quicker players (Luton have more of these as hard as that is to type and so do Burnley) and we look a soft touch. I think the type of player signed has hindered us. I am not saying just got for a load of 6 foot+ clubbers but we are only going to have a chance at this level if we compete physically and win 50-50’s and the tackles/headers. We did that last time in the first season. We are not doing that and the other teams’ players are more skilled by some way. This means we have little chance. Lots were raving about McAtee, Archer and Hamer as signings by these are physically lightweight and skill wise are still only top end Champ on evidence so far so if they are our technical ball players (yet none have kept it well enough so far) and creativity then we are in trouble as not sure how we create or get up the field. I get many will say it will not get any worse with a change but I do put a word of caution that I am not sure it will change things. Sure, we can sack him and try something but sadly when you are at a mismatch for physique/skill/pace/power (I know I am a broken record) then it is so hard whoever the manager is.



If we change it, I am not sure going back to Wilder is the answer. He will probably motivate them more for a spell but the tactics/shape he played last time did not work and teams worked it out. He has failed badly at two other teams since. Surely if they make a change there are other managers out there and it seems a bit lazy to say it’s Hecky or Wilder? I personally leave things for the next month or so. People may say it could be too late but we are probably going down anyway. I think Heckingbottom deserves more from the club and board who basically shafted him twice (got rid for Slav) and then set him up terribly to start this season. If we have more poor performances in the next 4 or 5 and lose every week, yes, fair enough we might have to look at it but I do not see it changing things even if the club probably would feel they have to act.













West Ham – Easy win. Thought start of the season, even with Rice going, they would do better this year as Moyes has improved the overall squad. They have a nice mix of strong, physical no nonsense players with some clever forward players. Bowen showed our players what it is about though and as much about attitude and work rate as ability. They scored two good goals and could have had more. They were a bit sloppy at times and second half took their foot off it but it was an easy 2-0 win and they could have upped it I felt any time. Will not have an easier game all season.



Opponent Man of the Match – Ward Prowse’s deliveries superb all game and Antonio a handful but Bowen was superb. He ran down the flanks, down the middle and a constant threat. Really complete footballer. As Tony Gale said, would not be shocked if top 5 or 6 teams looked at him.



Opponent Weak link – Not sure anyone was tested enough. The lad Alvarez was a dirty so and so and got booked and seemed determined to set sent off so Moyes wisely subbed him so maybe he takes this award.



Referee/Officials – An easy game to ref. Barely a bad tackle all game really and played at such a slow tempo with little physicality. A few VAR appeals for handballs – I would not have been shocked if Thomas had been penalised the way things have gone this season. When a team just rolls over, then the officials must be pleased as they know they won’t be having to make decisions that affect the game.
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Thanks for the report. Scores were a bit on the high side for me. Let's face it we are a mid Champ outfit. Let's hope we can achieve that level next year/
 
Deadbat said:
When loads were raving about the recrutiment
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Were they? I don't recall that. Most were saying we are still weaker without Ndiaye & Berge.

Again we've largely failed to sign physical specimens needed at this level. We've added some more midgets in Hamer, Traore, Archer and Thomas/McAtee/Davies who are 3 stone wet through. Add in the likes of Anel/Bash who aren't strong for their size.

Souza and Slimane are the two with PL physiques but that isn't enough. We look tiny compared to most sides at this level.
 
Benjy said:
Thanks for the report DB. Having read your reports for many years, and not being able to get to matches, they are invaluable to me. In my view they are balanced and informative. You do them for free, and it must take you a long time, so I'm not sure what people expect!

It's a strange time being a blade. In the Championship it's enjoyable seeing us near the top of the league, and dreaming of the promised land. But when we get there it's depressing, because we can't compete. I'm not sure I buy-in to the gulf between divisions because other teams have managed to stay up. But it's certainly not the most fun time knowing we'll be losing most weeks.
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Balanced?

I remember when my son played for the AFC Dronfield u8s and u9s there were two seven a side matches, the referees for the home games would be parents of the players from the club (I have refereed or ran the line in quite a number of matches). I remember this particular parent would always give decisions to the opponents when he was the referee as if he was trying his best to try not be too impartial and this frustrated the AFC Dronfield players during the match he was refereeing. Deadbat's reports reminds me of this parent as if he is trying his best not be to impartial and this annoys me. Also when I was young my dad did have friends who were supposed to be Blades but were always rubbishing United and praising Wendy and this confused me. Last season he kept predicting that we wouldnt go up and Wendy going up. Blades proved him wrong by finishing 11 points ahead of 3rd place and Wendy fluked it in the play offs.
 
Silent Blade said:
Balanced?

I remember when my son played for the AFC Dronfield u8s and u9s there were two seven a side matches, the referees for the home games would be parents of the players from the club (I have refereed or ran the line in quite a number of matches). I remember this particular parent would always give decisions to the opponents when he was the referee as if he was trying his best to try not be too impartial and this frustrated the AFC Dronfield players during the match he was refereeing. Deadbat's reports reminds me of this parent as if he is trying his best not be to impartial and this annoys me. Also when I was young my dad did have friends who were supposed to be Blades but were always rubbishing United and praising Wendy and this confused me. Last season he kept predicting that we wouldnt go up and Wendy going up. Blades proved him wrong by finishing 11 points ahead of 3rd place and Wendy fluked it in the play offs.
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Yet you keep reading them and commenting on them? 🤷‍♂️

Again rather than pick fault with me and this supposed narrative tell me what you saw different or give me some different opinions on players/tactics from the game. What did you see I didn't yesterday with individuals or collectively? You have pre supposed ideas about my reports without even coming back with specific critique to the actual report so its hard to properly engage in debate when it's like that.
 
Servigliano said:
We've been hammered 2 games in a row. Hamer has been one of our better players, especially given the fact that our midfield is a bit of a mish mash.
It's interesting that according to the BBC player votes Hamer comes top at 5.44.
Maybe the knives are out too soon.
Click to expand...
My comment was about the position and role he's been playing so far.

Britton was a technically good player who played holding midfield before he joined us. We tried to play him as an attacking midfielder and it didn't work. He was neat, but not creative.

I think Mark Robins' most used system was 5-2-1-2, where Hamer was one of the two central midfielders.

1696151947570.png


We've played him in wider, more offensive roles so far, and he hasn't had the impact most had hoped.

But - I've done some research since yesterday's post and it seems Robins did tweak his system a few times, including a "flat" 5-3-2, and Hamer's role in that may have been similar to the one he played yesterday. I can't comment how that affected his game and there are obviously other variables involved - Robins' tactics, his teammates at Coventry, the level and quality of opposition being lower in the Championship and so on.

I think yesterday's team/midfield didn't work and we may have to look at what changes we can make. One of them may be to put Hamer in the role he played most of the time at Coventry.
 
Deadbat said:
OK glad you admitted you did not read it!
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Was going to read this evening after coming back from celebrating my wife's 60th but I have just realised that you werent at the match so you didnt have the same view and experiencing Stratford as I did so I wont bother reading your report

Deadbat said:
Sold them back before but kind of glad. Another hundred quid plus to watch another probable defeat amid all the hassle made me make a smart move.
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Bergen Blade said:
My comment was about the position and role he's been playing so far.

Britton was a technically good player who played holding midfield before he joined us. We tried to play him as an attacking midfielder and it didn't work. He was neat, but not creative.

I think Mark Robins' most used system was 5-2-1-2, where Hamer was one of the two central midfielders.

View attachment 172211


We've played him in wider, more offensive roles so far, and he hasn't had the impact most had hoped.

But - I've done some research since yesterday's post and it seems Robins did tweak his system a few times, including a "flat" 5-3-2, and Hamer's role in that may have been similar to the one he played yesterday. I can't comment how that affected his game and there are obviously other variables involved - Robins' tactics, his teammates at Coventry, the level and quality of opposition being lower in the Championship and so on.

I think yesterday's team/midfield didn't work and we may have to look at what changes we can make. One of them may be to put Hamer in the role he played most of the time at Coventry.
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According to Coventry fans Hamer was by some distance their best blayer. I just don't want us to spoil him by not using him properly.
"Wilderball" worked almost because by accident we had Basham at his peak playing RCB and O'Connell at LCB. The opposition wondered what the hell was going on and were forced to defend as we were able to play 3 5 2. Sadly we no longer have JOC and age is catching up with Bash and our Quarterback.. We are trying to play the same system but with (inevitably) inferior and ageing players - and we're now in the Prem. We've been sussed.
I think sorting midfield is the key to survival. I know the defence is dire but the management also has to sort midfield. 3 in the middle doesn't work, we maybe have to go 4 at the back with 4 or even 5 in the middle.
 
Silent Blade said:
Was going to read this evening after coming back from celebrating my wife's 60th but I have just realised that you werent at the match so you didnt have the same view and experiencing Stratford as I did so I wont bother reading your report
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So we can't have an opinion on the game if you are not there and see on TV? I get both angles offer things differently. Are you saying in effect that anyone who does not go to games does not have a valid opinion? Genuinely interested as that basically means a large chunk of posts/this forum you would not bother reading? Do people have to say if they are at a game before they post? It's an odd way of qualifying what is more valid than others according to this way of looking at things.
 
Very harsh on Souza. He did exactly what he's supposed to do but is surrounded by players just not up to the level required and it shows in his frustration. Souza would be a welcome addition to a top 6 side.
 
Servigliano said:
According to Coventry fans Hamer was by some distance their best blayer. I just don't want us to spoil him by not using him properly.
"Wilderball" worked almost because by accident we had Basham at his peak playing RCB and O'Connell at LCB. The opposition wondered what the hell was going on and were forced to defend as we were able to play 3 5 2. Sadly we no longer have JOC and age is catching up with Bash and our Quarterback.. We are trying to play the same system but with (inevitably) inferior and ageing players - and we're now in the Prem. We've been sussed.
I think sorting midfield is the key to survival. I know the defence is dire but the management also has to sort midfield. 3 in the middle doesn't work, we maybe have to go 4 at the back with 4 or even 5 in the middle.

Hamer can play, how good is he? That is hard to determine with the way we are playing. We look like a team just thrown together for the match.
We don't appear to have a system to play to and individually, the opposition expose our weaknesses. And again recruitment wise we seem to have painted our selves into a corner. Players we have don't suit the 4231 that Slav wanted and most teams play to. That limits our adjustments during a match. It does not matter who you put in there, the result will be the same without tactical nous and collective belief.
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TopBoy said:
Very harsh on Souza. He did exactly what he's supposed to do but is surrounded by players just not up to the level required and it shows in his frustration. Souza would be a welcome addition to a top 6 side.
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He is not quick or mobile enough for a top side. He also switches on mentally and loses his men too often. He lacks discipline defensively and when he offers very little offensively. If he was a welcome addition for a top 6 side (City own him effectively) why would they have not signed him? If we do down not sure I see us making much on him personally on the evidence I have seen. Hope he can improve. He was nowhere near one of the worst players yesterday though.
 
I take a little bit of comfort from the fact that we did improve in the second half, although West Ham did ease.off a bit. I would like to see more of Trusty, he impressed me when he came on. I know it would be playing him out of position but he could add strength to the midfield. I'm a big fan of Egan but.he has been off form, and I would be interested in seeing how Anel does in the middle.
 
Excellent appraisal of the game and our inability to outsmart, outshine, outmuscle, out........?????, the opposition again.
Dear Deadbat,
Could you please make your font and line spacing a tad larger please because my old eyes are making the words and lines in the paragraphs all mingle together. I do treasure your reports as they enhance my understanding of the games and highlight crucial issues that have happened and are happening with our beloved Blades. I am sure other aged members of the 'Blades for life' brigade are suffering the same as me.

Thank you in anticipation, .........,, Wetwang blade
 
Wetwang blade said:
Excellent appraisal of the game and our inability to outsmart, outshine, outmuscle, out........?????, the opposition again.
Dear Deadbat,
Could you please make your font and line spacing a tad larger please because my old eyes are making the words and lines in the paragraphs all mingle together. I do treasure your reports as they enhance my understanding of the games and highlight crucial issues that have happened and are happening with our beloved Blades. I am sure other aged members of the 'Blades for life' brigade are suffering the same as me.

Thank you in anticipation, .........,, Wetwang blade
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Couldn't you make the zoom slightly larger on whichever device you are using?
 
Wards said:
Couldn't you make the zoom slightly larger on whichever device you are using?
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I copy from word but can see if I can make it easier to read in future. I need to paragraph more I know.
 
Deadbat said:
I think some bigger, stronger players. That sounds quite alehouse but the likes of Archer, Hamer and McAtee will just get bullied out of it. We simply do not see enough of the ball to compete. I've never seen a Blades team lose as many challenges/headers every week.
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Bigger, Stronger players like who?
 
It is depresssing but Burnley Luton and Bournemouth dont look any better, those are the games that will define our season

Re yesterday i dont think Archer lookes up to the fight in fact i thought Brewster did more in his cameo

Re Hamer as someone has already written on here, I have thought for a couple of games he should play just behind the striker at the expence of Archer, who may be more effective as a sub as maybe also McAtee at this point in the season

Re the midfield Hamer place, the obvious answer is Slimane or Davies, but Coulibaly and Larouci may have the strength and pace we are searching for
UTB
 

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