Well we tried

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What we can see in this thread in the essential difference between an optimist and a pessimist. An optimist sees a team that probably should have won. A pessimist sees the team that lost.

Now I'm a pessimist by inclination, I admit that. But I didn't like what I saw tonight. A team that can't take its chances when on top and concedes soft goals is on a hiding to nothing. It's all well and good weaving pretty patterns at 1-0 up but when you don't increase you lead a crumble when you concede you're in big trouble.

All that said, if Ironside Jr could finish a bag of crisps we'd have been safely in round two and all home a damned sight earlier.
 



We started well but after half hour we went back to being predictable and easy to contain. We can only rely on fleck and Duffy to create. Fleck, excellent signing by the way. We really need to be more ruthless and find that killer instinct. Thought the subs did well when they came on. DCL missed a chance when offside but he also forced a good save from their goal keeper and the corner wasn't given :confused: Scougs forced a save when he came on and McNulty got involved with some good touches and movement. McNulty also nearly squared for DCL at the back post but a good interception stopped an inevitable goal. Mat Done needs replacing. He had a shot first half when he should have slipped Clarke in and Clarke wasn't happy. Duffy was in a similar position prior to this and slipped Clarke in which resulted in Clarke flashing one across the goal mouth. This clearly shows Done doesn't have a football 'brain' you could say. Hussey will come good I think but he does need to be abit more direct. The CB pairing nowt wrong with either of them to be honest. Nowt to worry about with Wilson. Both strong and get up their mans arse when they need to. Few lads in with the attributes we're crying out for and a killer instinct we'll finally go up a level.
 
I can see us being a very good attacking side if we add another winger. Defence looked very shaky at times and conceded two poor goals.

Game was basically over as far as we were concerned when Sharp and Clarke had come off. After that there was no target for any attacking balls, no hold up play, and we were just plain out of it.

Positives: Duffy, Clarke, Sharp, Fleck, Hussey

Negatives: Everything else


Hussey looked shaky at the back. Lost his man in a Collinsesque way at least twice.
 
Still got every faith in Wilder to keep changing the culture here till he makes it work, but thought that was pretty dire apart from first 20-30 minutes.

Brayford looks an empty shell of his former self and Basham, apart from the odd thundering tackle, may as well not be there.

On the bright side, to call Clarke and Fleck "upgrades" on Sammon and Hammond is to suggest that upgrade means "roughly 3,000% better than".
 
Hussey looks very edgy defensively, he looks a bit like a winger playing out of position. His crosses were better tonight though.
 
It's very early days, but I don't think anyone can deny two losses from two is worrying. It's a bad start.

I'm not remotely interested in the cup but we needed a result for confidence tonight. To lose at home to a league 2 side with what would be considered one of our strongest 11 is quite frankly appalling
 
Tonight was remarkably similar to Saturday
In control, playing neat football and look threatening, fail to take chances and then concede from the 2nd phase of a set play.

That's all 3 goals conceded from failing to clear a corner or free kick, and Crewe had a few other chances from corners. One free header in the first half that should have been buried and Long having to save on the line from another that bounced around.

At present the left side is our biggest problem, we need a winger and Hussey needs to improve.

But it's certainly not all doom. We did create chances, Fleck looks good, Duffy is fine and does work well with Brayford when going forward and we're not conceding daft goals from open play at present and the centre backs look more solid.
Sharp isn't at the top of his game yet but McNulty did well, creating a couple of good chances that should have been taken and Scougs did ok.
I think a couple of additions, become more clinical in front of the net (which will happen, we do have decent strikers) and time for the defence and midfield to work together more and we'll have a decent team.
 
I can see us being a very good attacking side if we add another winger. Defence looked very shaky at times and conceded two poor goals.

Game was basically over as far as we were concerned when Sharp and Clarke had come off. After that there was no target for any attacking balls, no hold up play, and we were just plain out of it.

Positives: Duffy, Clarke, Sharp, Fleck, Hussey

Negatives: Everything else

Positives, Sharp and Hussey?
I'm assuming you mean tonight?
Granted it's all about opinions but I read that and felt we must have been at a different game
 
Yes, tonight. Thought that while Sharp and Clarke were on the pitch they had some good inter-play and it's not hard to see that good service to them will result in goals. Not clinical enough tonight by any stretch, but the game was under control while they were on the pitch together.
 
that bad? How did Long play, was he to blame for any of the goal?
we played really well but taking clarke off slowed down the game a bit as for long he couldn't have stopped the first goal and for the second from where i was sat the goal looked yards offside
 
Have we replaced a bunch of idle twats who thought they were too good for this league with a bunch of honest blokes who aren't good enough for this league?
Made me smile that, but there's an element of truth in it, thankfully not much more than that.

What's happening now under Wilder is that he is building us a proper 3rd division team. A team of players who are "fit for purpose" at this level. Some of the better players from League 1 and 2 will feature, but there's no point in having players with loftier aspirations than that because they'll just find it difficult and frustrating and feel they are "stepping down" and that the world owes them a living. We've had far too many of those haven't we?

The downside with this strategy is that...well...you end up with a team of average Joe's at 3rd division level. Then you have to teach them to fight, kick, punch, scratch and bite their way to victory at this level better than the next bunch of 11 that you face each week. Because that's how you get out of this league. It's not so good to watch, but you've more chance of being successful if you know what your current level is and what you need to do to rise above it. I think Wilder does know this.

What I'm expecting is that it will take a few weeks for this bunch of average Joe's to gel together and realise that their cumulative crapness can be overcome by effort. Once that penny drops we are on our way to something bigger and better. And as soon as we get there they are on their way out.
 
McNulty was much better than Sharp.

Remember his reaction at Grimsby when Sharp didn't pass btw? Well he was true to his word tonight, he passed it twice when he could've scored himself.

Agree 100%.

I said it last season too - the reason why Adkins sent McNulty out on loan (remember he was our leading goalscorer from the season before) was because he wanted to create a situation where he could justify signing his old pal Billy Sharp. What nutcase of a manager sends last season's leading scorer out on a season-long loan? Answer: The nut-job Adkins.

Nothing against Billy at all - but McNulty showed more threat in 10 mins than Sharp did all game. And I think he should be preferred to Sharp right now.
 



Yes, tonight. Thought that while Sharp and Clarke were on the pitch they had some good inter-play and it's not hard to see that good service to them will result in goals. Not clinical enough tonight by any stretch, but the game was under control while they were on the pitch together.
Thought Sharp was very quiet again as he was Saturday. Clarke I would agree with you but Hussey without wanting to slag him has been the least impressive player over the last 2 games both defensively and attack wise. As I said, all about opinions.
 
So McNulty must start on Saturday or Wilder is a nutjob.
(I think McNulty is the best striker we have at the club if his attitude was right...)
 
If it's the only way of getting him in the team, we might as well play McNulty from the left wing on Saturday. He can't do much worse than Done.
 
Unfortunately McCuntly won't be the world-beater that everyone now thinks he is because this division contains teams of a slightly better caliber than Stocksbridge.

But don't let that get in the way of slagging off last seasons top goalscorer.....
 
Thought Sharp was very quiet again as he was Saturday. Clarke I would agree with you but Hussey without wanting to slag him has been the least impressive player over the last 2 games both defensively and attack wise. As I said, all about opinions.

He gave Clarke one of the best chances in the game (although I don't know why he lifted it and made it awkward instead of just rolling it square). But I thought it was stark contrast how much joy we got from the width with them linking up with both our front two compared to after they left the pitch. To say they haven't played a lot of football together, I can see them making an excellent partnership together with Duffy supplying.

Really tonight only confirmed what Wilder's said about them in pre-season games. Nice football coming forward (first half at least) but nowhere near ruthless enough. And if we're going to be weaker at the back then there's even more pressure to get it right up top.

I'm not panicking but I'm not that excited either. Think everyone knew prior to Saturday that we're still that bit short. There's still time to get it right but as is I see us doing better than last season but not by quite enough.
 
Didn't attend Bolton, I'll be the first to admit I overreacted over the result. Tonight is very much the same, the result was embarrassingly poor against a team that probably won't even trouble the top end of League 2. But I'm still hopeful, and so should all of you. Just look at the results tonight in the cup, anyone beats anyone in the cup. We played relatively okay in the first 60 minutes apart from some well-below par finishing. We then became lazy and lackadaisical all over. Last year I came away from games feeling that we offered nothing and had a plethora of concerns and anger towards the players. Tonight is very much different and by all accounts Bolton was the same, at least we came close and with better luck we could have 2 wins out of 2. Please don't take too much from tonight or the result from Saturday, especially if you didn't attend, we played alright unlike last year or the year before. We'll be okay.

Long didn't do anything wrong tonight.
Brayford grew into it second half but it is increasingly worrying that the guy isn't the same player he was pre-injury, it's heartbreaking to see.
Wilson was okay, but a couple of mistakes towards the end maybe highlight that a centre half is high up on the wish list.
O'Connell was very good until the last 15 minutes. The only centre half that wins headers consistently since we had Maguire, although 1 cup game isn't much to base off.
Hussey was mixed. Some things came off, some didn't. I'll give it a few more weeks before a concrete judgement.
Duffy was good when he was involved, that's the problem. Needs to be involved more. The shot against the bar from 25 yards or so looked destined to nestle in the top corner.
Fleck was very good I felt. A proper midfielder.
Basham... He did okay but we need better from central midfield. Top of the priority list for me, we need a guy who isn't a soft touch, a guy who will intimidate and accommodate Fleck well. I've seen enough of Basham to see that he cannot offer this.
Done was poor. But I don't blame him for this. He isn't a left back, as Wilder rightly pointed out, but he isn't a winger either, as Wilder seems to be getting wrong. Play him in the last half hour from the bench if you want to be effective, don't try to accommodate him for the sake of it Chris. Left midfield is also top priority for me.
Sharp wasn't really in the game at all for me. I'm concerned that we accommodate Sharp to the detriment of the team. Some may not like to hear it but Done and Clarke up top for me would be more effective as Sharp off form drags the team down a whole level. The lad puts all effort in for United but he isn't good enough to drag us to a win out of nothing in games, if we are serious about promotion we should get somebody more consistent or simply better.
Clarke was good enough from what I saw. He appeared infrequently but showed quality when he did. Good signing but we need backup. DCL is certainly not.
The bench was mixed. McNulty showed some real quality when he wanted to, but went missing after extra time. Scougall almost had an instant impact but the linesman (dodgily in my opinion) flagged for offside for Clarke. Finally... If the rumours that we declined a £1m bid for Calvert-Lewin are true, that is worse than the sale of Adams... after two years of watching the lad, he is too weak, slow and quite simply shite to accommodate in the squad, the miss tonight was embarrassing and he offered nothing else. Maybe there's potential, but I don't see it.

Again, despite the scathing comments on certain players that some may point out, there is an overreaction doing the rounds. Give it a couple of weeks at least before panicking. The results have been disappointing, if not unacceptable but, i have trust in Wilder, more so than Adkins and Clough for that matter. I hope the guy is given time.
 
Still got every faith in Wilder to keep changing the culture here till he makes it work, but thought that was pretty dire apart from first 20-30 minutes.

Brayford looks an empty shell of his former self and Basham, apart from the odd thundering tackle, may as well not be there.

On the bright side, to call Clarke and Fleck "upgrades" on Sammon and Hammond is to suggest that upgrade means "roughly 3,000% better than".
Brayford played and looked like someone who is not happy - a real shame, can offer so much when he is on his game. Maybe the new management team is not for him - really hope he gets his mojo back!!
 
If it's the only way of getting him in the team, we might as well play McNulty from the left wing on Saturday. He can't do much worse than Done.
Understand what you are saying but more square pegs - I really hope CW is strong enough to make changes when required even if it's Billy - he will come good again, but it would be good for him to know he's not the first name on the team sheet every week regardless
 
Understand what you are saying but more square pegs - I really hope CW is strong enough to make changes when required even if it's Billy - he will come good again, but it would be good for him to know he's not the first name on the team sheet every week regardless

We're only playing a square peg on the left wing anyway though in Done. McNulty's a much better footballer who has far more chance of creating things. If we're going to try to accommodate someone it should be him.
 
They'll be down tonight but come Saturday winning or losing from tonight will make no difference. People like Fleck and Duffy hit the bar from outside the area, its not missed chances. Sharp and Clarke are getting chances and we know they'll take them. There's some serious over reaction to losing here! If we think we're alone then just look at the other results tonight. If we'd won one nil we'd have been saying job done etc but Lowe has done us and hopefully we'll learn. When we get a decent centre mid to partner Fleck and a decent left winger to help out Hussey we'll be a much better side with more balance. Right now its a working progress and we sadly have to be patient. The players will still be getting used to Wilder's methods and tactics and Wilder will be figuring out which players are going to stay in the team and which ones aren't offering enough.

sadly we're stuck with too many of last season's team and fans saying we've brought in crap need to be patient. Clarke, Fleck and Duffy are all good signings and Hussey will come good when he settles down.

That's the issue . Stuck with too many of last seasons team . Wilder like a lot of managers ( as Adkins ) think they can turn very average players in to winners . One player maybe but more than one - no .

We have had some good signings . Wilder will build around them , not the players who were here already .

Not surprising this and a reality check that we are a club that can finish anywhere from 2nd to 11th.
 
They'll be down tonight but come Saturday winning or losing from tonight will make no difference. People like Fleck and Duffy hit the bar from outside the area, its not missed chances. Sharp and Clarke are getting chances and we know they'll take them. There's some serious over reaction to losing here! If we think we're alone then just look at the other results tonight. If we'd won one nil we'd have been saying job done etc but Lowe has done us and hopefully we'll learn. When we get a decent centre mid to partner Fleck and a decent left winger to help out Hussey we'll be a much better side with more balance. Right now its a working progress and we sadly have to be patient. The players will still be getting used to Wilder's methods and tactics and Wilder will be figuring out which players are going to stay in the team and which ones aren't offering enough.

sadly we're stuck with too many of last season's team and fans saying we've brought in crap need to be patient. Clarke, Fleck and Duffy are all good signings and Hussey will come good when he settles down.

In isolation you would be right, it is an over reaction to a meaningless game that won't change our season. But if you look at the bigger picture can't you understand why people are so worried?

Had this been a Clough or Adkins side there would have been an uproar far greater. I think Wilder has everyone's good will but is it any better than what we have seen before?
 
I'll be honest ..... I went last night expecting out first team to be strong enough to beat Crewe, I wasn't expecting a massacre, perhaps just a solid 2 - 0 or similar. I was more interested in the performance, particularly after losing at Bolton when we probably deserved a draw.

I came away disappointed, not distraught, but I really think that as supporters we have to re-align our expectations for this season. Put simply; that is not a United side capable of promotion, even when they've played together for a few more weeks. We couldn't finish a breakfast, we are very obviously short of pace throughout the side and we still look prone to switching off for a bit when we get bored of battering the other side. We should have won comfortably, but once Clarke was subbed we had little attacking threat other than from distance. ( Flecks shot deserved a goal ...... it was a peach )

How did the players do, well here's my opinion ( and some will not like it ):

Long 6/10 Did nothing wrong really but had little to do except pick the ball out of the onion bag twice. Not at fault for either goal.

Brayford 3/10 Didn't really ever get going, looks almost disinterested and is a shadow of the player we took on loan. No attacking threat from the Beard and I can't remember him attacking and getting past the full back all night.

Hussey 5/10 Some decent defending particularly against a pacey youngster later on and delivery was generally better than on Saturday but much room for improvement.

OConnell 7/10 Looks solid, decent distribution

Wilson 6/10 Looks ok - not sure why either he or OConnell didn't attack the crosses that resulted in the goals for Crewe though - maybe the team got the marking wrong.

Fleck 8/10 MOM for me and dictated most of the good things that we did. He may not be big but hes strong enough to not be knocked off the ball. Got his head up, good range of passing, should have been rewarded with a goal.

Basham 5/10 Tries hard, gave 100% but often ends up the wrong side of his opponent. No goal threat from midfield, but got in lots of tackles.

Duffy 6/10 Tricky but not a lot of pace, got some good crosses in and I think he hit the woodwork as well as Fleck. Some of the things he tried didn't quite work and I thought that he looked better on the left than the right, not sure why.

Clarke 8/10 Scored two, one disallowed for dubious offside. Also missed a couple of opportunities but he won most of the challenges in the air, but nobody was picking up the flick-ons. looked lively & hungry and I think that if hes given service he will
be likely to get 20 this season in L1. Strong and brave ....... the exact opposite of Connor Sammon tbh.

Sharpe 4/10 Little or no impact on the game, control was sloppy, had the opportunity in Ist half to put Clarke clear, delayed and ended up making a difficult chance which was missed. Missed badly a good chance set up for him in 2nd half by Duffy,
blasting wide when a player of his experience should have hit the target at least. I hope that Tufty will still be prepared to drop him when warranted even if he is a Blade and the captain.

Done 4/10 Constantly drifted inside and left no outlet on the LW which probably mad life more difficult for Hussey than it should have been. Square peg in round hole .... he's not a LW !! He cannot do that job and he's lost a lot of the pace that he had
when we first signed him. Worked hard at times and chased but no end product, only beat his man a couple of times and had little contribution.

McNulty 5/10 Looked livelier than Sharpe and did contribute a bit but never really caused their defence a big headache. Some decent interplay late on.

Scougal 3/10 Had 1 shot, spilled by keeper that Clark put in but was ruled offside. Other than that zero impact. headless chicken and too lightweight to make any impression.

DCL 4/10 Had sufficient time on the pitch to make an impact but didn't take the opportunity. Glaring miss in front of the Kop which would have finished the game off.

Wilder 5/10 Team started well enough but failed to capitalise on the chances we had to finish the game. Surprisingly played Done out of position and this affected the shape of the team which looked unbalanced for long periods. Didn't seem to motivate the players to redouble their efforts in 2nd half and they almost seemed to get bored with battering Crewe's defence. Appeared to make an error in substituting experienced players too soon when the game was clearly not won, hence very late equaliser from Crewe.

What is apparent from last night is that not only do we need 4/5 new first team players to make the squad a realistic competitor for promotion this year, but we also have nothing on the bench to change a game or cater for injuries, suspension or loss of form. In short ....... still in the early stages of re-building rather than nearly job done ! :(

UTB & FTP
 
People seem to be a bit too eager to drop Sharp, even taking into account the usual knee-jerkiness of this forum. Wilder clearly views Sharp & Clarke as his preferred pairing and for good reason given their scoring records – let's give them a bit of time to build up an understanding, as it's not as though they've had a full preseason of friendlies to do so.
 



Unfortunately McCuntly won't be the world-beater that everyone now thinks he is because this division contains teams of a slightly better caliber than Stocksbridge.

But don't let that get in the way of slagging off last seasons top goalscorer.....

Hang on though TD, the team have lost one league match away to Bolton and lost in extra time in a cup match, that's two whole matches for the new manager and new players. I salute the fans who have stood by the side this long into the season but now feel the need to descend into the usual schadenfreude. :(

I'll give it ten games, as the wiser sages on here say, before pressing the panic button. But I have to be careful not to say it too often or it makes me a clapper/kev/cunt.

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