We will work closely with Sheffield United

[Stu_Blade]

Of course. But, we don't want that do we? Using other clubs as our plaything? People trafficking? In this week of all weeks, I'm very happy to say football is for the fans. Fans of Calicut Quartz, Alihal United, La Berrichonne & Beerschot included. Football fans. Who wants to be a Stepping Stone club? Who wants a rich, out of touch owner pissing them around? Never turning up at the games? Moving his toy soldiers around on an imaginary Subbuteo pitch in his bunker? We don't want that do we? Not us football fans? It's football, not Monopoly

I'd expect anyone who is half decent to come from Beerschot directly if this is the plan. Likewise anyone who is either surplus to requirements with us or the next big thing but not ready yet could go there and do a decent job. Then I'd expect Beerschot and Châteauroux to support each other similarly.

Thinking about the immediate season and without considering the offloading of players, ignoring Beerschot's actual needs and if there are no takers and both find themselves out of the picture, (lots of ifs) then possible players to transition:

Mousset - I know it is in the Flemish region but there will be a decent French community. If he could find focus he'd do a very good job for them.

Lowe - if it is congested at LWB with Stevens, RND and Osborn then a year playing a full season of football might not hurt him at all. Especially if this is Stevens' last season, their trajectories could intersect.

Burke - he's already gone abroad twice. If his face doesn't fit with the new manager and it is too late to move him on, a stint of potentially playing week in, week out night be good for him.

N'Diaye - suppose he finds himself too crowded out even after the window has closed, waiting for Didzy to hang up his boots, might be beneficial for both parties. He's certainly got a lot of promise.

Though unlikely it could be that some of the senior players fancy playing oversees to prolong their careers.

Not sure how easy work permits would be the other way but you'd think coming from a highish ranking English club to a lower French one would be easier then the other way.

I'd see Jebbeson, Ayari and Hackford having a full year in the U23s around but maybe some of those U23s a little older like Brunt or Broadbent would now benefit from men's football. Send 2 or 3 on loan together so they can support each other as a group. A good promotion season with Châteauroux in men's football might do them the world of good. Didn't hurt Matt Lowton going to Ferencvaros.

Totally agreed there, it is a good opportunity to develop your pedigree as a player rather than having the same CV as the man next to you (NCEL, National League North, League 2 etc) it will take some players out of their comfort zone to France and Belgium and have opportunities that others won't have. I suspect Kerala will feed into the Dubai Club eventually given the money in Dubai.
There is nothing stopping them picking up say 5 players a season for a nominal fee which will see overheads of the club covered in India which is going to be a loss less than the UK. Then using those players in Dubai if any gems found shipping them to Belgium or France with the others either going back to India or staying in Dubai and repeating every 2 seasons.

 

[Weasel]

Of course. But, we don't want that do we? Using other clubs as our plaything? People trafficking? In this week of all weeks, I'm very happy to say football is for the fans. Fans of Calicut Quartz, Alihal United, La Berrichonne & Beerschot included. Football fans. Who wants to be a Stepping Stone club? Who wants a rich, out of touch owner pissing them around? Never turning up at the games? Moving his toy soldiers around on an imaginary Subbuteo pitch in his bunker? We don't want that do we? Not us football fans? It's football, not Monopoly.

Being honest, provided that the clubs concerned and the players involved are all happy with the fees involved and the move then I'm totally fine with it myself.

If we are getting players on the cheap from sister clubs or not paying the going rate then fair doos but provided that we are and provided all parties are content with the any player movement wheres the problem?

If the players can move between clubs on tbe above basis and then if it ultimately leads to players being more accessible to Utd via strategic transfers between sister clubs then I see that as a good thing. Of course we could just buy players from the Belgium league from any top tier club but at least this way we are keeping an eye on what is happening with a club closer to SUFC and there is also the benefit to the players who play for the clubs further down the pyramid who can see potential moves to United World clubs in Europe if they want it and are good enough.

The key is that all parties should be consenting and be happy with any transfer arrangement for players. No need for toy soldiers if that is applicable.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Being honest, provided that the clubs concerned and the players involved are all happy with the fees involved and the move then I'm totally fine with it myself.

If we are getting players on the cheap from sister clubs or not paying the going rate then fair doos but provided that we are and provided all parties are content with the any player movement wheres the problem?

If the players can move between clubs on tbe above basis and then if it ultimately leads to players being more accessible to Utd via strategic transfers between sister clubs then I see that as a good thing. Of course we could just buy players from the Belgium league from any top tier club but at least this way we are keeping an eye on what is happening with a club closer to SUFC and there is also the benefit to the players who play for the clubs further down the pyramid who can see potential moves to United World clubs in Europe if they want it and are good enough.

The key is that all parties should be consenting and be happy with any transfer arrangement for players. No need for toy soldiers if that is applicable.

#Football Is For The Fans
Have you not switched your telly on this week?
Sister Clubs, behave....

 

[Champagneblade]

Totally agreed there, it is a good opportunity to develop your pedigree as a player rather than having the same CV as the man next to you (NCEL, National League North, League 2 etc) it will take some players out of their comfort zone to France and Belgium and have opportunities that others won't have. I suspect Kerala will feed into the Dubai Club eventually given the money in Dubai.
There is nothing stopping them picking up say 5 players a season for a nominal fee which will see overheads of the club covered in India which is going to be a loss less than the UK. Then using those players in Dubai if any gems found shipping them to Belgium or France with the others either going back to India or staying in Dubai and repeating every 2 seasons.

To be fair as well, it's not as if Watford don't benefit from this model quite well.

Udinese middling in Serie A and Watford promoted back.

 

[Weasel]

#Football Is For The Fans
Have you not switched your telly on this week?
Sister Clubs, behave....

Yes thanks. And my point still stands.

You could argue that all clubs are in a pyramid anyway and are just feeder clubs to the bigger and better with the bigger financial resources. If it wasn't like that then Harry Maguire, Kyle Walker and Calvert Lewin would probably still be playing for us.

As it was we got the best price we thought we could get in the circumstances at that time and as a club we sanctioned the deals. The players were happy enough as they furthered their careers and were handsomely rewarded for it financially.

So to reiterate, provided the clubs in the UW group pay the going rate between themselves and the clubs and players are all happy with the arrangement then where is the problem? There isn't one.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yes thanks. And my point still stands.

You could argue that all clubs are in a pyramid anyway and are just feeder clubs to the bigger and better with the bigger financial resources. If it wasn't like that then Harry Maguire, Kyle Walker and Calvert Lewin would probably still be playing for us.

As it was we got the best price we thought we could get in the circumstances at that time and as a club we sanctioned the deals. The players were happy enough as they furthered their careers and were handsomely rewarded for it financially.

So to reiterate, provided the clubs in the UW group pay the going rate between themselves and the clubs and players are all happy with the arrangement then where is the problem? There isn't one.

Fans?

 

[Weasel]

Fans?

What about them?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

What about them?

At last, you've got my point. In a Feeder Club Fiasco - Fans, what about them? No one cares.

 

[BushBlade]

The Work Permit ready reckoner is.....
If the French Club is relegated. Then the French, Indian & Dubai clubs are all at the same level for Work Permit purposes. (As would any Norwegian feeder club mentioned in this thread)
The maximum number of endorsement points a player who is not a full International (and what would a full International be doing at those clubs) could earn would be
2 for the standard of the club
2 for playing 90% of the minutes
7 for playing in 30% of Youth Internationals for his country
A maximum of 11.
15 needed for a Governing Body Endorsement

Realistically, we cannot sign any non UK players from the French, Dubai or Indian Clubs (or Norwegian).

The Beerschot Ready Reckoner is much more attractive on Endorsement Points
10 for the standard of the league
5 for playing 40% of the minutes
That already gives the 15 points needed for a Governing Body Endorsement

Realistically, we can sign any non UK players from Beerschot who are playing fairly regularly.

Presumably it’s a long term plan which also includes getting the French club promoted

 

[Weasel]

At last, you've got my point. In a Feeder Club Fiasco - Fans, what about them? No one cares.

I agree with that sentiment. But hopefully that wouldn't be the arrangement with UWG. Pay the going rate, all parties (including the selling club) happy enough with the deal, no problem is there. Until we start acquiring players from other clubs in the group on the cheap then I don't see this 'feeder club' mythology that you are referring to. It's a way in my mind for the group to move players between the clubs to hopefully assist with getting players playing in Belgium and ultimately United. Again provided all parties are content with the arrangement where is the problem?

Hypothetically, if we went for a player from Beerschot FC and we were only willing to pay £1m for him and a rival unconnected club were willing to pay more then all things being equal then it would be wrong for us to get him. And as a fan of BFC I would be peeved. But if we are the best offer on the table, all parties are in agreement and the player fancies it then why not. We are all 'feeder clubs' in a way, the trick is to get the best possible deal. We don't rip off other clubs in the group then I'm OK with it as a 'fan'. I wouldnt be bothered if we had an arrangement with Man Utd re them getting first option on our better players provided they paid the going rate to us. I might want my team to be the best in the world but I'm old and wise enough to know by now how the world works.

 

[Oreyt]

1995-96 Châteauroux Match Issue Coupe de France Home L/S Shirt #5 (Ukkonen)

www.classicfootballshirts.co.uk

Someone buy me this please

 

[PurpleRain]

Beerschot has a history in developing players (Vertonghen, Dembele, Alderweireld, Wanyama, De Mul, Nainggolan, Doku,...) and we, as every club in Belgium, need to sell our best players when a PL team comes knocking. If the financial rewards are divided in a fair way and you can help each other out then it can be beneficial for everyone. Normally a player like Holzhauser with 16 goals and 16 assists is impossible to retain for us. I would then prefer he would go to you then to any other team. Then he is still part of our family. Off course against the right price. His value is around 5 mio. I would be happy that he would go for 3.5 to United even if Brugge or Anderlecht would offer 5 mio. The difference in price should be compensated by having the opportunity to loan good players, play friendly tournaments, share commercial initiatives like with the joint Yelo sponsor, etc. Also we should be able to benefit from Chateauroux in a similar way. It can be a good thing for all involved but there are for sure boundaries to be protected to respect each club’s ambitions and fans. The blades have won a lot of support over here since our links and I hope it’s the same the other way around and will also be the case with Chateauroux. In essence we are all tradition teams with a great fan base but with little chance to win a cup or a championship or even a European ticket. If we can make each other stronger maybe that can become possible and the ambition should be to aim as high as possible with each club in the group.

 

[Weasel]

Beerschot has a history in developing players (Vertonghen, Dembele, Alderweireld, Wanyama, De Mul, Nainggolan, Doku,...) and we, as every club in Belgium, need to sell our best players when a PL team comes knocking. If the financial rewards are divided in a fair way and you can help each other out then it can be beneficial for everyone. Normally a player like Holzhauser with 16 goals and 16 assists is impossible to retain for us. I would then prefer he would go to you then to any other team. Then he is still part of our family. Off course against the right price. His value is around 5 mio. I would be happy that he would go for 3.5 to United even if Brugge or Anderlecht would offer 5 mio. The difference in price should be compensated by having the opportunity to loan good players, play friendly tournaments, share commercial initiatives like with the joint Yelo sponsor, etc. Also we should be able to benefit from Chateauroux in a similar way. It can be a good thing for all involved but there are for sure boundaries to be protected to respect each club’s ambitions and fans. The blades have won a lot of support over here since our links and I hope it’s the same the other way around and will also be the case with Chateauroux. In essence we are all tradition teams with a great fan base but with little chance to win a cup or a championship or even a European ticket. If we can make each other stronger maybe that can become possible and the ambition should be to aim as high as possible with each club in the group.

Totally agree. Whilst respecting each others individual club and making sure no club rips off another financially, we should work together to everyone's benefit in the group. I would like to see some of the United fringe players or best of the younger lads go on loan to Beerschot. I would also like to think we get better commercial deals if we try and sell the group brand rather than each club doing it on an individual basis.

Personally I want to see all the clubs under the UWG do well.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I agree with that sentiment. But hopefully that wouldn't be the arrangement with UWG. Pay the going rate, all parties (including the selling club) happy enough with the deal, no problem is there. Until we start acquiring players from other clubs in the group on the cheap then I don't see this 'feeder club' mythology that you are referring to. It's a way in my mind for the group to move players between the clubs to hopefully assist with getting players playing in Belgium and ultimately United. Again provided all parties are content with the arrangement where is the problem?

Hypothetically, if we went for a player from Beerschot FC and we were only willing to pay £1m for him and a rival unconnected club were willing to pay more then all things being equal then it would be wrong for us to get him. And as a fan of BFC I would be peeved. But if we are the best offer on the table, all parties are in agreement and the player fancies it then why not. We are all 'feeder clubs' in a way, the trick is to get the best possible deal. We don't rip off other clubs in the group then I'm OK with it as a 'fan'. I wouldnt be bothered if we had an arrangement with Man Utd re them getting first option on our better players provided they paid the going rate to us. I might want my team to be the best in the world but I'm old and wise enough to know by now how the world works.

You introduced the phrase "feeder club" into the discussion at post #65, not me.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Totally agree. Whilst respecting each others individual club and making sure no club rips off another financially, we should work together to everyone's benefit in the group. I would like to see some of the United fringe players or best of the younger lads go on loan to Beerschot. I would also like to think we get better commercial deals if we try and sell the group brand rather than each club doing it on an individual basis.

Personally I want to see all the clubs under the UWG do well.

What's the difference between The Prince paying The Prince £1 for a Beerschot star player, and The Prince paying The Prince £10 million for a Beerschot star player? It's still The Prince paying The Prince. You're saying it'll be OK if The Prince doesn't rip The Prince off.

 

[PurpleRain]

What's the difference between The Prince paying The Prince £1 for a Beerschot star player, and The Prince paying The Prince £10 million for a Beerschot star player? It's still The Prince paying The Prince. You're saying it'll be OK if The Prince doesn't rip The Prince off.

The prince does not own Beerschot 100% so he would be ripping his fellow investors off who own 25%, as well as the fans. With 10 million our club can buy proper replacements. The prince is not putting each year millions of his own in the club. On the contrary he wants the clubs to be self sufficient, surviving on the funds the club generates.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The prince does not own Beerschot 100% so he would be ripping his fellow investors off who own 25%, as well as the fans. With 10 million our club can buy proper replacements. The prince is not putting each year millions of his own in the club. On the contrary he wants the clubs to be self sufficient, surviving on the funds the club generates.

It's Smoke & Mirrors. The Prince has the Password to all the Online Banking Accounts. Fudge it all you want. If Sheffield United buy a player from Beerschot. The Prince is paying The Prince. And the price of the player doesn't matter to him. If Everton buy a player from Beerschot they pay Beerschot real money. Not some slight of hand column in the club accounts.

 

[Weasel]

It's Smoke & Mirrors. The Prince has the Password to all the Online Banking Accounts. Fudge it all you want. If Sheffield United buy a player from Beerschot. The Prince is paying The Prince. And the price of the player doesn't matter to him. If Everton buy a player from Beerschot they pay Beerschot real money. Not some slight of hand column in the club accounts.

Yep your right. You are very clever.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It's Smoke & Mirrors. The Prince has the Password to all the Online Banking Accounts. Fudge it all you want. If Sheffield United buy a player from Beerschot. The Prince is paying The Prince. And the price of the player doesn't matter to him. If Everton buy a player from Beerschot they pay Beerschot real money. Not some slight of hand column in the club accounts.

The minority shareholders have rights. I doubt they and the fans would put up with such flagrant asset stripping.

It smells of the usual dodgy Arab claims.

 

[Weasel]

The minority shareholders have rights. I doubt they and the fans would put up with such flagrant asset stripping.

It smells of the usual dodgy Arab claims.

Over to you Sean. He's bored me senseless, and I can't be bothered any more. Good luck.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The minority shareholders have rights. I doubt they and the fans would put up with such flagrant asset stripping.

It smells of the usual dodgy Arab claims.

I agree. That's where I came in. Fans matter in these sort of arrangements. They should rightly be up in arms if players are moved between clubs in the "asset stripping" way you describe.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I agree. That's where I came in. Fans matter in these sort of arrangements. They should rightly be up in arms if players are moved between clubs in the "asset stripping" way you describe.

“If”.

You’re the one coming up with this scenario. Despite the obvious flaw in the logic.

 

[RammyBlade]

I dont see how this benefits us now we are out of the EU .... Surely Youth Players cannot move to the UK ? There are strict rules about having to be internationals and playing a percentage no of games as below

Work permit automatic criteria:​

​

National association FIFA rank	Percentage of games
Between 1 and 10	30%
Between 11 and 20	45%
Between 21 and 30	60%
Between 31 and 50	75%

 

[ucandomagic]

Supply-chain economics is a key aspect of profitability in a globalised market economy.

The more that you own of a supply chain the more that you can ensure that your maximum benefit occurs in the most “profitable” part of your chain.

This can be to avoid tax, meet regulation, increase revenue or develop future revenue streams. If you are an enlightened business you understand that most profitable means greatest increase in “value” rather than just making the most immediate cash.

 

[Snowflake]

Supply-chain economics is a key aspect of profitability in a globalised market economy.

The more that you own of a supply chain the more that you can ensure that your maximum benefit occurs in the most “profitable” part of your chain.

This can be to avoid tax, meet regulation, increase revenue or develop future revenue streams. If you are an enlightened business you understand that most profitable means greatest increase in “value” rather than just making the most immediate cash.

If only the business world worked as well as the books say it should !

 

[Sirius]

What about them?

Short for Fannies

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We should buy a club in China, it’s a growing market.

Doh!..

 

[ucandomagic]

If only the business world worked as well as the books say it should !

Good theories (books) follow observation and testing - bad theories (books) hypothesise future behaviour with no testing.

I have run workshops with many boards - as individuals and as groups. Successful companies have shared values and develop strategies to achieve those values - bad companies stagger from one compromised negotiated goal to the next. Good books are written from knowledge, not from hopes and ideals.

Today a football club is a company that reflects the values of its ownership. If those values come into conflict with the values of key stakeholders then, as we have seen recently, the whole fabric of the business can quickly be threatened.

My point about supply chains was simply that controlling them gives you a tool to put you in control of where different aspects of your value are generated, and hence helps you to satisfy different groups of your stakeholders - customers, employees, legislators etc - while still achieving whatever values are important to you. Hence all the corporate profits that are generated in Ireland!