We need a new defence when we go up.

[ShockingBadBuy]

So you don't think Moore should have saved either of them then? I do, especially the second one. He was too easily beaten, slow going down and got nowhere near the ball.

To be fair to Mooro, he's had bugger all to do for most of the season and is probably a bit rusty

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think everybody is enjoying it, and I'd much rather win with goals in a game than be a team that just sets out to gain a boring 1-0 win, but we don't half make hard work out of winning from situations of control.

The rate at which we concede goals is a concern for next season though.
Every game it seems that what little bit the opposition throws at us ends up being a goal
It doesn't matter whether it's one or two minutes of pressure, a sudden break away or a speculative 30 yarder, it always ends up in our net.

Wilder will be thinking exactly the same as me, you can bet on it
He'll be pleased with the win, but he will also be concerned about how many goals we allow our opponents to score from practically none of the play and thus handing the impetus to them when there was none to begin with.

My thoughts exactly wilder privately won't be happy with the goals going in our net

 

[Maidenhead]

Stop panicking . We are winning .

The squad will have a major overall next season . The loan players will not be here next season .

Enjoy the ride .

will need to be a bloody big overall to get all the squad in it!

 

[South Bucks]

We could have Paolo Maldini, Bobby Moore and Frank Beckenbaur in defence - if our midfield lets people run unchallenged to the edge of the box, we're screwed.

A DM who stops runners is what we need.

Fair play to Tufty though. He stuck Basham in there for the last 25 mins and it made the difference.

Lavery on the other hand got ran in behind for most of the second half. His positional play was all over the place last night.

I saw it in a similar way, our defensive line was not the main problem for their goals, it was what was going on in front of and behind them.

I thought Basham and JOC had good games, EEL not quite so good, not as good with the ball at his feet. Moore missed a couple of long range shots as he has done several times now this season and really ought to get down to spec savers or something.

Lack of defensive duties by our midfield in the second half, not closing down, allowing runners and just jogging back when the opposition burst through created the problems.

If our defenders are marking someone but a runner is coming towards them with the ball unchallenged 30 yards out they can't always leave the bloke they are marking too early to intercept him or they'll just slip in their forward so they hope our midfield will get back or our keeper will save most shots from 20+ yards ..........

They also got far too many crosses in from their left hand side in the second half for my liking.

We did enough to get by last night and get a decent result against rather poor opposition so am happy but there was not alot in it and we could do better.

 

[snootyfenooty]

We have beaten just 6 times in the league so far this season. It baffles me that people can criticise the amount we concede when this is the free scoring blades side I can remember. It's incredible. The last thing we want to do is concentrate on conceding less as we will inevitably score less! Don't change what ain't broke!

I don't get this mentality. What's wrong with winning 4-0 or 3-0 instead of 4-2 or 3-2. I fail to see how tightening up the defence is going to be detrimental to our attack. The bottom line is that you cannot play with a back three when two of them are as flat-footed as EEL/Wright and O'Connell. We were lucky last night with Swindon playing George Long's long lost twin brother in goal.

We'll manage with what we have for the rest of the season but it'll be lambs to the slaughter next season unless this issue is given top priority during the summer.

 

[Grecian2000]

One of the things that has pissed me off the most since slipping into this division is our inability to a) come up with a recognised way of setting up and playing every game and b) forcing this decision on our opponents during games (save for a few months under Wilson when Ched was scoring for fun and the run from Feb to April after Clough took over when we knew how WE were going to set up and play).
This is exactly what we do now. We play to our strengths and let the opposition deal with it. Our midfield are great, and I mean GREAT, at getting at the opposition and creating situations in their half. This is Division THREE, that's good enough to beat virtually any team at this level constantly. If we concede as a result of their offensive approach so what? Do we negate our own strengths to cope with perceived problems that piss poor opponents might threaten? No, do we fuck.

Next season will be a completely different kettle of fish. There will be personnel changes and perhaps a change in formation and attitude. If so we'll see it develop then. For now I'm thinking our approach is doing OK, anyone really disagree? Details on a postcard to C Wilder, Office of Doing it my way, Bramall Lane, Sheffield.

 

[Benny and the Blades]

Mr Wilder would have to be mad to start chopping and changing and upsetting the defence this late in the season, "if it aint broke don't mend it", that's end of season stuff.
Any way the team as it stands seems to be coping very well thank you......

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Nothing wrong with wanting all areas of the team to be equally strong and people are right that next season (if we go up) will be different and CW will need to address some strengthening issues.

That said what entertainment we are getting this season with pretty much an all out attack plan. Anyone want to swap that for a dour defensive version that may possibly get more points but would be dull as ditch water?

Not me thanks I can't remember when I enjoyed watching my team so much

 

[LJBlade]

I don't get this mentality. What's wrong with winning 4-0 or 3-0 instead of 4-2 or 3-2. I fail to see how tightening up the defence is going to be detrimental to our attack. The bottom line is that you cannot play with a back three when two of them are as flat-footed as EEL/Wright and O'Connell. We were lucky last night with Swindon playing George Long's long lost twin brother in goal.

We'll manage with what we have for the rest of the season but it'll be lambs to the slaughter next season unless this issue is given top priority during the summer.

You really fail to see how defending more or playing with more defenders could lead to us scoring less?

It's not as simple as assuming that one simple change would result is conceding less but scoring the same amount. At the moment we seem to have hit the winning formula, why change it?

 

[grafikhaus]

Yes, the goals we concede are a worry...



Over 26% of goals we concede are soon after HT (like last night), and nearly 20% in the first 15 mins., which suggests we're getting 'caught cold' straight after the start/break. BUT we're talking about Third Division players here, so seeking perfection is futile. Should Moore have got down to their second sooner? Personally, I thought David De Gea was as guilty for the Chelsea goal on Monday, and he aint a bad goalie.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I saw it in a similar way, our defensive line was not the main problem for their goals, it was what was going on in front of and behind them.

I thought Basham and JOC had good games, EEL not quite so good, not as good with the ball at his feet. Moore missed a couple of long range shots as he has done several times now this season and really ought to get down to spec savers or something.

Lack of defensive duties by our midfield in the second half, not closing down, allowing runners and just jogging back when the opposition burst through created the problems.

If our defenders are marking someone but a runner is coming towards them with the ball unchallenged 30 yards out they can't always leave the bloke they are marking too early to intercept him or they'll just slip in their forward so they hope our midfield will get back or our keeper will save most shots from 20+ yards ..........

They also got far too many crosses in from their left hand side in the second half for my liking.

We did enough to get by last night and get a decent result against rather poor opposition so am happy but there was not alot in it and we could do better.

yep agree with this and have commented on similar things before. Some will be hap[py with 2-4 last night. 2 nil at half time meant we should have been comfortable instead of being pegged back at 2-2. We appear to have a concentration issue just after half time.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I don't get this mentality. What's wrong with winning 4-0 or 3-0 instead of 4-2 or 3-2. I fail to see how tightening up the defence is going to be detrimental to our attack. The bottom line is that you cannot play with a back three when two of them are as flat-footed as EEL/Wright and O'Connell. We were lucky last night with Swindon playing George Long's long lost twin brother in goal.

We'll manage with what we have for the rest of the season but it'll be lambs to the slaughter next season unless this issue is given top priority during the summer.

Agree totally. The defence is a problem (at times) - the players in front of the defence are a problem when defending (at times)
It's a problem that needs addressing. Last night should have been a comfortable 0-3 or 0-4 considering the score at half time, not a squeaky bum 2-2 and then being gifted the game.

It won't be lost on the management team which is the most pleasing thing. It's just needs working on in training - to make us even BETTER.

UTB

 

[Jon P]

Yes, the goals we concede are a worry...

View attachment 24458

Over 26% of goals we concede are soon after HT (like last night), and nearly 20% in the first 15 mins., which suggests we're getting 'caught cold' straight after the start/break. BUT we're talking about Third Division players here, so seeking perfection is futile. Should Moore have got down to their second sooner? Personally, I thought David De Gea was as guilty for the Chelsea goal on Monday, and he aint a bad goalie.

At least we can pin point where we're going wrong. Wilder will be aware of that, easy to put right.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Just a few observations on this issue.


1. We play an attacking formation where we give players license to bomb on meaning we will concede goals but as long as we dominate the ball the way we do, we will usually outscore opposition at this level at least.


2. Despite playing 352, we don’t play with a DM. That makes us great to watch but does make us vulnerable in the gap between defence and midfield as last night showed.


3. We do have an issue with concentration when coming back out after half time. Rochdale, Swindon, Gillingham at home, Scunny at home we have conceded within a few minutes of the re-start and that’s just in the last 2 months. It’s definitely an area where we can improve.


4. We have centre halves who are good at a couple of things but we don’t have any “complete” centre halves. I think that’s natural at this level but next season, we need to try to find at least one who combines the physical attributes of JOC/EEL with the mental ones of Jake Wright. Someone who can dominate in the air but who isn’t prone to a rick like EEL is.


5. What we have now usually sees us be pretty solid when Jake Wright is there to marshal them. Rochdale away being the exception. If Wright plays the remainder of this season, we’ll be fine.


6. None of us have any idea how we’re going to approach next season. If we keep the same way of playing and try to dominate and play on the front foot, we will probably need to improve in several areas. Certainly CB and CF. Without knowing what route Wilder is looking to take us down next season and how much backing he’ll have to do it, it’s very difficult to say what we need. I’d love to see us continue to dominate and attack teams like Bournemouth did but they had to go out and spend £3-4million on Callum Wilson to lead the line to make it work.

7. How we set up and the personnel we have is indisputably working as far as our objectives for this season are concerned. That provides some confidence that we have a manager who will identify the correct approach to meet our objectives next season in the championship

 

[ucandomagic]

Lots of debate on here about whether we need to be more defensive once leading and whether we will need better defenders in the future, countered by opinions that we are scoring more by being more aggressive.

However, the 2 need not be in conflict. We play a high pressing game - which means that our midfield 5 are often well up the field pursuing the game. This is Tufty's style. If you press high it is absolutely crucial that your back line also presses up so that the space between midfield and the back line is small. If your back line sits back, then when the opposition come through or over the midfield they have a big space in which to run at you, and you are in trouble.

I have noticed that when we are pursuing the game early on our back line does press up, but particularly once we are ahead they tend to sit deeper - this is a psychological thing as you feel that you are playing safer. Unfortunately, for the reason above, it is counterintuitive and much less safe. So, you either need a disciplined back line - and a strong intelligent leader to run it and keep that gap small - or, as others have suggested, you can include a strong DM like Kante to patrol that space.

I haven't looked back at different games, but maybe one thing Jake Wright does is to drive the back line closer to the midfield.

As an aside, I thought that Lafferty was very weak on their disallowed goal, put no pressure on that first header.

At the other end, Lavery, Carruthers and O'Shea are as lively as a bag of ferrets, and must be a nightmare to defend against.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Lots of debate on here about whether we need to be more defensive once leading and whether we will need better defenders in the future, countered by opinions that we are scoring more by being more aggressive.

However, the 2 need not be in conflict. We play a high pressing game - which means that our midfield 5 are often well up the field pursuing the game. This is Tufty's style. If you press high it is absolutely crucial that your back line also presses up so that the space between midfield and the back line is small. If your back line sits back, then when the opposition come through or over the midfield they have a big space in which to run at you, and you are in trouble.

I have noticed that when we are pursuing the game early on our back line does press up, but particularly once we are ahead they tend to sit deeper - this is a psychological thing as you feel that you are playing safer. Unfortunately, for the reason above, it is counterintuitive and much less safe. So, you either need a disciplined back line - and a strong intelligent leader to run it and keep that gap small - or, as others have suggested, you can include a strong DM like Kante to patrol that space.

I haven't looked back at different games, but maybe one thing Jake Wright does is to drive the back line closer to the midfield.

As an aside, I thought that Lafferty was very weak on their disallowed goal, put no pressure on that first header.

At the other end, Lavery, Carruthers and O'Shea are as lively as a bag of ferrets, and must be a nightmare to defend against.

UTB

From the highlights my first thought was there seemed to be a big gap between defence and midfield. Obviously highlights don't tell the full story as you don't see the full lead-up or the full pitch but I did wonder if Jake would have pushed the defence up a bit and those big gaps between the lines wouldn't be as big.

 

[Antonb]

Looking at the first goal, coutts let his man go completely. But saying that overall he had a great game. Especially 1st half. But he was switched off for there first goal.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Agree totally. The defence is a problem (at times) - the players in front of the defence are a problem when defending (at times)
It's a problem that needs addressing. Last night should have been a comfortable 0-3 or 0-4 considering the score at half time, not a squeaky bum 2-2 and then being gifted the game.

It won't be lost on the management team which is the most pleasing thing. It's just needs working on in training - to make us even BETTER.

You made the key point a lot better than me in your last sentence. Listening to some on here there's no need to improve as we are winning most games. Maybe it's because we come from an era where finishing top of Division 3 wouldn't be much to shout about.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

There's plenty of talk about defenders and the defence in discussing goals conceded. The issues that lead to goals often start further up the pitch. Goals conceded may be resolved by not changing defenders. However, this may affect the goals scored column which may lead to threads starting about how shit the forwards are and billy Sharp needs drop...O, err

 

[Th!stledo]

For me, the win was the most important thing and a step closer to the finishing line.
Getting the right balance between attacking and defensive football is something that I am confident the management are aware of and looking to address.

The main thing we have going for us is the winning mindset which means we will always expect to score more than we concede.

 

[LSF]

Good points made by lots here on the conceding goals issue. The o/P makes a poor generalising statement and the follow up from this has been full of reasoned and intelligent debate.
My ten pennorth fwiw...
A team setting up 352 (i think we are more 3142) has to decide it's approach to winning the game. The nature of the personnel is crucial. If two or even three of the five are defensively biased, the likelihood is few goals conceded, few goals scored.
If just one of the five is defensively biased the likelihood is plenty conceded, plenty scored.
It could be argued that all our five like to attack, even the wing backs ( Freeman's goal tally bears this out, Lafferty looks comfier in the attack third than any of the other two areas). The middle three are all attack minded(though Fleck defends strongly), and our sitter in the 3142 (Coutts) is not a natural defensive midfielder, hence the likelihood we will always be prone to conceding.
The flip side is we will always more than likely score more than we concede.
Wilder has decided early doors that this was his policy. So far it's worked a treat.
Why change now eh!

 

[Antonb]

I get your points, and this is going to work in league 1. With these players. But won't work in the Championship all the time with these players cuz they ain't fast enough. Pace would be a major issue for us in the Championship. In that , we ain't got none, and a number of championships sides do! We can get away with it in this league.

 

[fuerstenberger]

I actually don't think there is much wrong with the players. I think the issue is with tactics. After we have played teams off the park in the first half, opposition managers change it around at half time. Our players come out after half time keeping the same formation. People who go will know if that's the case in reality. I believe that is what is catching us cold. I remember back in the distant past, if we were leading at half time we would start the second half in a 5-4-1 formation with the midfield sitting deep. This would be done until we had worked out what the opposition had changed to. It surprises me about Wilder, as he as seemed very shrewd regarding tactics and formations.
It's either that or the half time water is doped.

 

[Trueblade]

I don't get this mentality. What's wrong with winning 4-0 or 3-0 instead of 4-2 or 3-2. I fail to see how tightening up the defence is going to be detrimental to our attack. The bottom line is that you cannot play with a back three when two of them are as flat-footed as EEL/Wright and O'Connell. We were lucky last night with Swindon playing George Long's long lost twin brother in goal.

We'll manage with what we have for the rest of the season but it'll be lambs to the slaughter next season unless this issue is given top priority during the summer.

I'm not saying don't look at it next year I'm saying whilst we are on a promotion charge and doing what we are, leave it be.

The issue with the formation is, Fleck and Coutts don't sit because we have 3 CB's. When opposition get between the midfield and defence there's nobody there to stop them, and none of the three step out because there worried about getting caught down the sides with Lafferty and Freeman also pushing up. It's a pitiful of the setup rather than the CB's being flat footed - but for now at least we are overpowering teams.

Agreed next season if we go up teams may not be so forgiving.

 

[blade too long]

We ship a boat load against the shite in this league, imagine the carnage in the Championship.

boltons let in as many as us in the last 10 games
look up other promoted sides
Im pretty sure they concede goals too

bournemoth let in 50 plus goals when promoted out of here hasnt stopped them

 

[LSF]

I get your points, and this is going to work in league 1. With these players. But won't work in the Championship all the time with these players cuz they ain't fast enough. Pace would be a major issue for us in the Championship. In that , we ain't got none, and a number of championships sides do! We can get away with it in this league.

My theory is applicable to any division whether it be the premiership or the national league, pace has little or no bearing on it.
The majority of professional footballers' these days have ample 'pace' to carry out their role in a game.
I believe pace is an over egged pudding today. Supposed lightening players are easily dealt with nowadays, absorbed quite easily by defensive strategy rather than the old man to man system in which a pacy player thrived far more.
Quite plainly Chris Wilder will shop at a more upmarket store for players this summer (if we go up of course!).
The question is, will he obtain the same sort of players to play in the same sort of system (and who will be retained to prove they can cut it in the championship).

 

[BushBlade]

My theory is applicable to any division whether it be the premiership or the national league, pace has little or no bearing on it.
The majority of professional footballers' these days have ample 'pace' to carry out their role in a game.
I believe pace is an over egged pudding today. Supposed lightening players are easily dealt with nowadays, absorbed quite easily by defensive strategy rather than the old man to man system in which a pacy player thrived far more.
Quite plainly Chris Wilder will shop at a more upmarket store for players this summer (if we go up of course!).
The question is, will he obtain the same sort of players to play in the same sort of system (and who will be retained to prove they can cut it in the championship).

I think pace can be useful on the counter attack but more important is the ability to beat a man and make correct decisions.

 

[Fanny magnet]

If brayford comes in as one of the back three surely that will make us a bit stronger there

 

[Bartleby]

Kevin Keegan school of management back in fashion?

A better fashion to follow than what we've had to endure the previous two seasons.

 

[Ricky]

Fair play to Tufty though. He stuck Basham in there for the last 25 mins and it made the difference.

How often this season has moving Basham around won us points?

It's no wonder he starts every game.