"We had a game plan"

[Fulwood Blade]

Rookie centre-half at right back, not recommended.

4-5-1 can be an attacking formation but not when everybody plays at half pace and looks sideways and backwards every time they get the ball. Movement off the ball and players demanding the ball? - non-existent, apart from O'Grady who showed the way yesterday. We'll soon cure him of that! Any system needs player movement and players demanding the ball.

half pace IS the problem - our midfield yesterday just wasn't busy - Oldham and Rochdale both played 4-4-2 and had a very busy and moving midfield.

We looked fabulous v Soton as we sat and broke.

Against Walsall we tried to be more offensive which didn't work.

I would much rather us play like we did v Soton, be boring, not concede and win games - it is aformation that worked all 2nd half of this season and some of this - we just keep changing formation and players - ok, some enforced due to injuries, but I question is the time right to be "blooding" Wallace and Adams.

We need to be solid and we look far from solid - the irony yesterday is that we played shit and are still 1 point nearer the top than at the start of the day - but in reality we chucked away 2 points same as last week by letting two very AVERAGE teams back into the game. Now that is unprofessional, not a word I would expect to use with a clough team, but it is sadly becoming the norm as against the exception.

Still much work to do on the training ground when we should by now have a pattern - a la MK plastic dons.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

half pace IS the problem - our midfield yesterday just wasn't busy - Oldham and Rochdale both played 4-4-2 and had a very busy and moving midfield.

We looked fabulous v Soton as we sat and broke.

Against Walsall we tried to be more offensive which didn't work.

I would much rather us play like we did v Soton, be boring, not concede and win games - it is aformation that worked all 2nd half of this season and some of this - we just keep changing formation and players - ok, some enforced due to injuries, but I question is the time right to be "blooding" Wallace and Adams.

We need to be solid and we look far from solid - the irony yesterday is that we played shit and are still 1 point nearer the top than at the start of the day - but in reality we chucked away 2 points same as last week by letting two very AVERAGE teams back into the game. Now that is unprofessional, not a word I would expect to use with a clough team, but it is sadly becoming the norm as against the exception.

Still much work to do on the training ground when we should by now have a pattern - a la MK plastic dons.

UTB

Whilst we might have played 4-5-1 against Southampton, the pressing and then the running off the ball when we won it was different class.

We don't do it at home against "lesser sides". That's down to the manager firstly, and then of course the players.

Sadly it's a feature of "Clough sides" this season in the league. Scandalous really and no excuses. Surely the league has to be everybody's priority. Boy am I pissed off with it - and the complacency and excuses in those measured interviews on RS where the interviewer is so very kind and feeds every line to our manager. We are failing, and whilst we are nearer the top two after yesterday, Preston and MKD are both two points nearer them and two points more in front of us.

Too many goalkeepers have an easy time at the Lane. Just look at the celebrations of the Walsall fans after the game. How good they feel with an unexpected point, that's a measure of our failure yet again.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

That post nails it Fulwood. It saddens me that staunch Clough supporters like you and me are running out of patience at last but I think it's fair to say that Clough's "honeymoon period" lasted about a year.

Poor player recruitment, team selection and game management are all coming home to roost.

However Adams and Scougall stayed on the pitch so long upset me yesterday and McGahey going to full back was bizarre. Why not go 3 at the back at half time. Harris would have revelled in a more forward role. We are short of full backs so why not adapt?

I disagree with you about Baxter who provided the game's only two moments of incisive quality; his through ball for the goal and his incredible shot which hit the bar. No doubting he had a poor game but in our side we need players who can change the game in a moment. Not a single other players did that all game.

I fully agree that we can't play Scougall and Baxter together at present because Scougall has been poor value for weeks. Apparently McNulty had a thigh strain otherwise either Baxter or Scougall may not have played. Clough said after the match that he wants to try the O'Grady/ McNulty partnership and that signals the end of 4-5-1 at least at home I suppose. That in itself makes it unlikely Baxter and Scougall will not play together in future anyway.

Adams may have potential but at this stage give him game time when games are won. Playing him for 87 minutes was another bizarre decision if we are serious about automatic promotion. Unsurprisingly the lad looked sideways and backwards throughout the first half, not the only one mind. ("Start on the front foot" said Robinson). In truth Clough's only other choice for 4-4-2 yesterday was to play Higdon and I think he is reluctant to expose him to the home crowd as yet.

We do not have an exceptional absentee list for this time of year. We have been short of strikers all season and ironically defenders too, having discarded Collins and Butler( Donny's main man now).

Clough got it wrong in the summer and we have suffered all season. It looks as though the board will bail him out in January and I hope he has learned some lessons. There's still time but it's all a bit worrying for the future.

I am quite happy for Che to start as the lad looks bright and has got something, however you are right, he ran out of steam yesterday and should have been subbed will before the end.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Can someone explain this 442 to me? Are we referring to when McNulty came on, or was something we did beforehand arguably 4-4-2? And on what planet is that?

UTB

Did McNulty get a kick?

 

[Woodwardfan]

It was indeed going well over - must have had a hell of a spin on it to comedown so quick.

UTB

How does a shot from outside the area be going "well over", get a deflection from a man stood right in front of the kicker, and spin to come down?

I know you don't like Baxter but fair play.

 

[sitwell]

You are unbelievable ,tell me why the ref who was 2 yards away give a corner ,it has nothing to with liking Baxter or not it fucking happened ,I saw it with my own eyes and was right in line with it. If it hadn't got a deflection it would have been an impossible trajectory .

 

[Woodwardfan]

You are unbelievable ,tell me why the ref who was 2 yards away give a corner ,it has nothing to with liking Baxter or not it fucking happened ,I saw it with my own eyes and was right in line with it. If it hadn't got a deflection it would have been an impossible trajectory .

That wasn't the point I was making.

 

[Bladesway]

Whilst we might have played 4-5-1 against Southampton, the pressing and then the running off the ball when we won it was different class.

We don't do it at home against "lesser sides". That's down to the manager firstly, and then of course the players.

Sadly it's a feature of "Clough sides" this season in the league. Scandalous really and no excuses. Surely the league has to be everybody's priority. Boy am I pissed off with it - and the complacency and excuses in those measured interviews on RS where the interviewer is so very kind and feeds every line to our manager. We are failing, and whilst we are nearer the top two after yesterday, Preston and MKD are both two points nearer them and two points more in front of us.

Too many goalkeepers have an easy time at the Lane. Just look at the celebrations of the Walsall fans after the game. How good they feel with an unexpected point, that's a measure of our failure yet again.

Less than 2 months ago you were making all the positive noises under the sun. We were 5 points behind the front runners with a game in hand. Promotion was on the cards and we were going up. Now a few games further on the manager has to carry the can for failure. And you had the cheek to call me a slasher? At least I am consistent.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

How does a shot from outside the area be going "well over", get a deflection from a man stood right in front of the kicker, and spin to come down?

I know you don't like Baxter but fair play.

On the shot from Baxter, it seemed to take a deflection off the kid who lunged at the shot - my eyes aren't brilliant but I turned to my nipper - asked the question and he said it took a deflection as I thought it did The speed of the shot and the trajectory of the ball made it impossible (IMHO) to do anything other than be deflected - as to what amount of physics was involved only Stephen Hawkins could probably explain. Would I swear to a deflection - no, but it seemed that way and sitters is convinced. We were in the South stand but it looked a nailed on deflection. The youtube replay is inconclusive, but it seems very feasible that it was deflected. You see bucket loads on MOTD - deflected in all sorts of ways that just create strange trajectories.

I personally could not give a monkeys if it was deflected or not - it's not that important, but it has nothing to do with disliking Baxter.

As for Baxter - it is not that I don't like him, I reckon NC is playing him all over the place which doesn't help Baxter or the team. I would have Baxter OR Scougal - not both in the same midfield. I would play either in the hole or allow Scougs a free role to just go and be a pest. Baxter seems very lazy - he plays a pass and then looks at his boots - seems a bit of a fancy dan. Undoubtedly talented - just want him to use it more. during 90 minutes. I don't buy this that he is fat - he is just built in a chunky way and Billy Sharpe was a similar build - just short and stocky but not fat. A player as talented as Baxter should have helped Utd more in putting Walsall to the sword, yet it consistently doesn't happen in games I see him play. It is nothing personal against ANY player in R&W but I and many more fans EXPECT more than what we are seeing. It just comes from central midfield being the most influential positions on the park. As we saw on Tuesday, Reed and Flo were both magnificent and even though they played deepish, they controlled that centre element.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Less than 2 months ago you were making all the positive noises under the sun. We were 5 points behind the front runners with a game in hand. Promotion was on the cards and we were going up. Now a few games further on the manager has to carry the can for failure. And you had the cheek to call me a slasher? At least I am consistent.

Good post.

Two months ago we had played 15 league and cup games and the new players were settling in so we all made allowances and were optimistic I'm sure. Since then we have played another 15 league and cup games and we are off the pace particularly at home. I agree I am disappointed with Clough now that the season has developed and I think his signings are mediocre now that I have seen enough of them. I have not given up on him by any means and hope he can turn it around in January which is a tough month fixture wise.

I do think we have been playing badly though and should be better placed than we are. In my posts I have tried to be analytical and constructive in my criticism. If Clough makes his three signings and changes to a more aggressive formation at home games I see no reason why we should not challenge for second place. The games in January against Preston, MKD, Rochdale and Swindon are vital but the new signings have to hit the ground running.

I should add that the repeat of the post from the Derby fan in October 2013 about Clough's time at Derby struck too many chords with me and I fear these are natural traits. I also suspect his brother is not that good.

I hope after another 15 games I am as happy as a red and white pig in the proverbial.

 

[alcoblade]

Did McNulty get a kick?

I don't know, does it have some implication on our first half formation?



UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don't know, does it have some implication on our first half formation?



UTB

No, nor did the post I was replying to.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Having uprooted recently I hadn't been to watch United for a couple of months until taking in both games this week. My take on the poor home form in the league is that it's simply a case of not imposing ourselves enough from the start. As a promotion chasing team in the league you simply MUST impose yourself on visiting sides. They will all come and sit behind the ball and if you don't press them it will be very comfortable.

We seem to be trying to win the game with one goal every week which will not work unless we become absolutely rock solid at the back. The general approach is along the right lines and we do have some good players, as proven in the cups. I'm a big fan of Cloughie but something he said in his interview worried me on Saturday....it was something along the lines of giving ourselves 10 or 15 minutes after the goal and see what they do about it so we can try and pinch one on the break. Not what we should be doing imo.

Once you've scored, keep pushing while they're on the ropes, get a second!

 

[alcoblade]

No, nor did the post I was replying to.

Eh? Are you sure?

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

On the shot from Baxter, it seemed to take a deflection off the kid who lunged at the shot - my eyes aren't brilliant but I turned to my nipper - asked the question and he said it took a deflection as I thought it did The speed of the shot and the trajectory of the ball made it impossible (IMHO) to do anything other than be deflected - as to what amount of physics was involved only Stephen Hawkins could probably explain. Would I swear to a deflection - no, but it seemed that way and sitters is convinced. We were in the South stand but it looked a nailed on deflection. The youtube replay is inconclusive, but it seems very feasible that it was deflected. You see bucket loads on MOTD - deflected in all sorts of ways that just create strange trajectories.

I personally could not give a monkeys if it was deflected or not - it's not that important, but it has nothing to do with disliking Baxter.

As for Baxter - it is not that I don't like him, I reckon NC is playing him all over the place which doesn't help Baxter or the team. I would have Baxter OR Scougal - not both in the same midfield. I would play either in the hole or allow Scougs a free role to just go and be a pest. Baxter seems very lazy - he plays a pass and then looks at his boots - seems a bit of a fancy dan. Undoubtedly talented - just want him to use it more. during 90 minutes. I don't buy this that he is fat - he is just built in a chunky way and Billy Sharpe was a similar build - just short and stocky but not fat. A player as talented as Baxter should have helped Utd more in putting Walsall to the sword, yet it consistently doesn't happen in games I see him play. It is nothing personal against ANY player in R&W but I and many more fans EXPECT more than what we are seeing. It just comes from central midfield being the most influential positions on the park. As we saw on Tuesday, Reed and Flo were both magnificent and even though they played deepish, they controlled that centre element.

UTB

Good post Fulwood.

I'm pleased you've looked at the video of the shot. The only reason it is relevant whether it took a deflection is because I believe Baxter is the only player on our books who can hit a dipping volley which demands technique ( maybe Murphy too). He infuriates me too often but he has natural ability and an eye for goal. I discount his easy missed header because in that position Baxter is out of his comfort zone, just as Basham, Scougall etc are in the air in front of goal. He has a strong shot and is capable of scoring from outside the area as he has done a few times. That is why Clough perseveres with him and I think he's right. He can also split defences where others can't. I agree that it is all about who plays with him and the blend of the team.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Good post Fulwood.

I'm pleased you've looked at the video of the shot. The only reason it is relevant whether it took a deflection is because I believe Baxter is the only player on our books who can hit a dipping volley which demands technique ( maybe Murphy too). He infuriates me too often but he has natural ability and an eye for goal. I discount his easy missed header because in that position Baxter is out of his comfort zone, just as Basham, Scougall etc are in the air in front of goal. He has a strong shot and is capable of scoring from outside the area as he has done a few times. That is why Clough perseveres with him and I think he's right. He can also split defences where others can't. I agree that it is all about who plays with him and the blend of the team.

I just like busy midfield players - I liked how Oldham and Rochdale played and for sure they outplayed us in midfield, even though we beat Rochdale on the day, some of their results have been quite outstanding for such a little club. Think back to Sidwell and Harper for Reading - they just made that team tick. It is just sad that Reed is so young - if we over play him, we could ruin him for ages and it is understandable NC is being cautious with him.

Reckon santa should bring presents of "tempo" to virtually ALL our midfield

UTB

 

[sitwell]

Good post.

Two months ago we had played 15 league and cup games and the new players were settling in so we all made allowances and were optimistic I'm sure. Since then we have played another 15 league and cup games and we are off the pace particularly at home. I agree I am disappointed with Clough now that the season has developed and I think his signings are mediocre now that I have seen enough of them. I have not given up on him by any means and hope he can turn it around in January which is a tough month fixture wise.

I do think we have been playing badly though and should be better placed than we are. In my posts I have tried to be analytical and constructive in my criticism. If Clough makes his three signings and changes to a more aggressive formation at home games I see no reason why we should not challenge for second place. The games in January against Preston, MKD, Rochdale and Swindon are vital but the new signings have to hit the ground running.

I should add that the repeat of the post from the Derby fan in October 2013 about Clough's time at Derby struck too many chords with me and I fear these are natural traits. I also suspect his brother is not that good.

I hope after another 15 games I am as happy as a red and white pig in the proverbial.

I really don't understand this obsession with what a Derby fan said. This is a completely different club ,in different circumstances ,with different players and personnel ,and why do you think his brother is no good. Derby have some great young players ,so where do you get that from ? Do Man Utd fans agree with Everton fans about Moyes ,Did Notts Forest fans ask Leeds about Clough senior ?
The guy is just over a year into a massive rebuilding job after the previous regime left staring into the abyss ,in his 13 months we have now got to 2 semi finals ,5th in the league with over half a season to go ,and everything to play for. This patience we all asked for after the last 5 managers ,does that only last 13 months then ? I should think you haven't given up on him ,how very noble of you.

 

[Bladesman]

"We had a game plan. If we could start on the front foot and play in their half we would dominate the game" Robinson, MKD v Oldham today.

Do we have a game plan?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Having uprooted recently I hadn't been to watch United for a couple of months until taking in both games this week. My take on the poor home form in the league is that it's simply a case of not imposing ourselves enough from the start. As a promotion chasing team in the league you simply MUST impose yourself on visiting sides. They will all come and sit behind the ball and if you don't press them it will be very comfortable.

We seem to be trying to win the game with one goal every week which will not work unless we become absolutely rock solid at the back. The general approach is along the right lines and we do have some good players, as proven in the cups. I'm a big fan of Cloughie but something he said in his interview worried me on Saturday....it was something along the lines of giving ourselves 10 or 15 minutes after the goal and see what they do about it so we can try and pinch one on the break. Not what we should be doing imo.

Once you've scored, keep pushing while they're on the ropes, get a second!

As we all know the blades have been on free fall for a number of seasons , and changed managers too many times to try and stem the decline . Mr Clough has been tasked to carryout a complete rebuilding job .Could it be with being in the league cup semi final and 5th in league 1 , we are expecting too much .

It could also be that the above are masking bigger issues ,and quite simply , we are not good enough for promotion.

UTB

 

[Darthblade]

Walsall were absolutely PISS POOR today - we went to 4 in midfield and got absolutely swamped in midfield on our own patch, to a poor side - those fans advocating 4 in midfield such reassess their thoughts - might be good in theory, we DO NOT have the players, especially with Baxter and Scoogal in midfield to pull it off.

Baxter and Scougal just does not work.

UTB

Agreed ..... what we need are two strong, pacey midfield players who can play football, signed on 1st January, and then play 4 - 4 - 2 with O'grady & McNuts upfront.

Oh hell though we might start scoring goals and winning matches then instead of scraping draws against league giants like orient, Walsall, Oldham .....
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Just watched it half a dozen times, no deflection. In any case, even if it had done, it was a great one-two and a powerful shot from a player who has the ability to do such things. Where were such incidents from all the other players?

It was a deflection ..... I was sitting in the JSS and ot hit the defenders foot and looped wickedly. But for the deflection it would have been in row Z ...... which is where Baxter and Scougal should be at the moment; watching from the stands.
UTB & FTP

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I really don't understand this obsession with what a Derby fan said. This is a completely different club ,in different circumstances ,with different players and personnel ,and why do you think his brother is no good. Derby have some great young players ,so where do you get that from ? Do Man Utd fans agree with Everton fans about Moyes ,Did Notts Forest fans ask Leeds about Clough senior ?
The guy is just over a year into a massive rebuilding job after the previous regime left staring into the abyss ,in his 13 months we have now got to 2 semi finals ,5th in the league with over half a season to go ,and everything to play for. This patience we all asked for after the last 5 managers ,does that only last 13 months then ? I should think you haven't given up on him ,how very noble of you.

Note a little bit of venom in that sitters, but you are correct with the assessment.
Clough needs time - 2 nice wins v Port Vale and Scunny will do a world of good to us all.
Can't wait to sing "jingle bells.................etc" at the PV fans - shame Adams isn't still there, as although he is a Blade he can take his share of the blame for where we are now.

UTB

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Note a little bit of venom in that sitters, but you are correct with the assessment.
Clough needs time - 2 nice wins v Port Vale and Scunny will do a world of good to us all.
Can't wait to sing "jingle bells.................etc" at the PV fans - shame Adams isn't still there, as although he is a Blade he can take his share of the blame for where we are now.

UTB

The Adams situation and being brought in as manager was Mr McCabe heart ruling the head . I actually thought Adams would do the business but history tells us otherwise . Too many loan players , and players not committed to the cause that season.

Just hope we don't blow it over the christmas period , PV and Scunny will no doubt raise there game , and watch out for further score draws.

Forget what Mr Clough did or didn't do at Derby , its here and now that counts . Mr Clough is doing a good job and patience is a virtue , but wears thin when you are in your 4th year in league 1 .

I have no doubt we will get promotion this season , even by the play offs. This is when our cup heroics will hold us in good stead .

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

The Adams situation and being brought in as manager was Mr McCabe heart ruling the head . I actually thought Adams would do the business but history tells us otherwise . Too many loan players , and players not committed to the cause that season.

Just hope we don't blow it over the christmas period , PV and Scunny will no doubt raise there game , and watch out for further score draws.

Forget what Mr Clough did or didn't do at Derby , its here and now that counts . Mr Clough is doing a good job and patience is a virtue , but wears thin when you are in your 4th year in league 1 .

I have no doubt we will get promotion this season , even by the play offs. This is when our cup heroics will hold us in good stead .

UTB

Don't think many of us were unhappy at Adams - just wrong choice of players (with hindsight).

If I had an xmas wish, I'd go for a score draw at PV and a win at home to get our home form back on track.

As for promotion this season in the top 2, it is a tall order to make up 8 points, but we should take heart from that "other" Utd in Manchester, as it just goes to show what 6 wins on the bounce can do for the team and the supporters.

Even if it's only the play offs - I would fancy us as all we would need to do is play it like 3 cup games.


UTB

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Don't think many of us were unhappy at Adams - just wrong choice of players (with hindsight).

If I had an xmas wish, I'd go for a score draw at PV and a win at home to get our home form back on track.

As for promotion this season in the top 2, it is a tall order to make up 8 points, but we should take heart from that "other" Utd in Manchester, as it just goes to show what 6 wins on the bounce can do for the team and the supporters.

Even if it's only the play offs - I would fancy us as all we would need to do is play it like 3 cup games.


UTB

To be fair , there is no real doom and gloom at the lane . We are actually quite fortunate going in to 2015 being stable both on and off the field . A couple of decent signings and rub of the green on the pitch , and promotion is not out of the question .

We could be Glasgow Rangers or Blackpool who like us are established clubs with a long history . At least we have boardroom and managerial stability.

A couple of wins for us on the trot will make a massive difference . Let us hope it is a good christmas for all connected to the Blades and we find the knack of changing draws to wins . A little bit more attacking minded , clinical and ruthless will do the trick.

UTB