Villa 0 United 0 - report

[Wards]

Lundstram won a few challenges....he at least got involved and tried to assert himself more as the game went on. You are right none if the midfield were great.but I cannot think of one thing Berge did all gane that affected the game positively? If people think he did ok or I am being harsh...please point out what he did well as he barely touched the ball, did not win any challenges and off it he let players run away from him. At one point 2nd hslf we were on the right and for a spell United players stopped passing to him finding other players instead when he was better placed. I'd take him out of the team. We can't carry him and last night we carried 3 players...may be more with the front 2 and him.

I don't disagree per se and like you say he didn't have a positive influence on any of our play. The only thing I can credit him for was he made a couple of good defensive clearances from set plays and the one where he stopped Keenan Davis scoring at the back post - we certainly want more than that from him though.

If WIlder is hell-bent on playing him from now until the end of the season then I wonder if we'd ever revert to having two holding (him and Norwood) with Freeman infront of them (a la Duffy) - something we've not seen this year. That's assuming Fleck is out of course.

 

[boggy1959]

The only positive i'm taking from last night is maybe we'll be a bit more match sharp than Toon on Sunday,but that was poor last night.

 

[BobblesBlade]

 

[Booker4]

Berge did nothing. He maybe touched it 10 times (maybe stats will show more)- he hid and did not get involved.

Defensively he did not pick up his man on three corners and they nearly had efforts on goal twice. There might be a player in there but we have seen no evidence at all of it yet. I worry if people think he did ok tonight. He may aswell have been sat in the stands.

Sorry to be harsh but in most of the game he has played he has been a passenger and is not affecting games at all. He did ok at Palace first half but then since then he has regressed when I thought he would get better. He is incredibly timid and weak and not sure what is his role is. He cant get rid of it quick enough when he has it. We may not have played for 100 days but none of the players have. Maybe its a mental thing but he looks out of his depth so far.

It just seems to me Deadbat that Berge and McBurnie are signalled out by our fans and get more criticism than any other players, I can only think that's because they both cost £20m. I understand that brings expectation but the cost of the player doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to perform to their initial cost - obviously. I know you would say you're just seeing it as it is, but I think people are generally over critical on both and had Berge played as Norwood did and vice versa I still think people would be more critical of Berge, especially given that Norwood gave the ball away once in a critical area. I am not convinced by Berge yet, don't get me wrong. We haven't seen the form he had for Genk yet. But I don't think he's a weak link either or that he seems lost. I don't know where Wilder intends to play him in the long term, maybe he is to play Norwood's role. I know he didn't do well in that role v Reading. I imagine he's lacking confidence too right now but I don't think he was 3.5. Each to his own though and it seems I'm in the minority thinking Berge did ok.

As for McBurnie. He didn't win every header but almost every ball to him in the air he's got a defender right behind him and that type of ball is more likely to be won by a defender facing the ball, then an attacker with back to goal. As a contrast, a ball from the byline pulled back to the attacker is far more likely to be won by the attacker than the defender. We didn't get behind them much yesterday, once probably where McBurnie squared it to Lunny, but sadly it was quickly closed down. There wasn't many if any decent balls put in to the front two yesterday, that was my main disappointment from yesterday performance wise.

When you consider that we haven't played for 100 days and that we were missing Fleck - our best midfielder, and O'Connell, arguably our most attacking defender, then I think its not surprising that we didn't create as much for the front two. I think that has to be taken into account when giving a low mark for a forward. Overall I thought it was a decent performance all things considered. Not trying to be critical of your assessment, as I'm sure you know, I just see it differently.

 

[Webding]

Sorry but Sharp and McBurnie does not work at all.

Crap game.

The only positive i'm taking from last night is maybe we'll be a bit more match sharp than Toon on Sunday,but that was poor last night.

Blatant plug, but I agree and we pretty much say all this (and more, including a pointless 30 seconds on cake and alcohol) here:

Tufty Club Reaction - Villa Away

Play Tufty Club Reaction - Villa Away by Tufty Club on desktop and mobile. Play over 320 million tracks for free on SoundCloud.

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DB also explains his Berge criticism in a roundabout way.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Ignoring the Norwood placing on their formation diagram, I think these are a reasonably fair reflection of the performances yesterday – the centre-backs and Henderson did well, the rest distinctly average.

I’d say Norwood and Berge had similarly ineffective games. Norwood was cut off by Villa in a clear tactic to stop him, and when pressed further and further back on the ball he is occasionally liable to gift it to the opposition when attempting to get it out of danger. The difference with Berge is that while he was as poor, he wasn’t restricted by Villa the same way Norwood had been.

On the Reading performance for Berge in his more natural position, I think a few took issue at the time of your report on that Deadbat, including myself – he did a few things well in that game, and looked altogether more involved.

 

[Snowflake]

How come Berge's got 3.5 and Norwood, who I may add I think is a great player, has got 6 because in my view Berge was no worse than Norwood tonight. Lunny wasn't amazing either, and that isn't a criticism tbf, we've not played for 100 days but I think its hard giving Berge 3.5. I always respect your views Deadbat, but with respect Berge did ok today, its just we have very high expectations for him and he did well defensively today.

He is someone who jogs about, he's not an in your face type player who's game is based on energy and tracking. He's keeping it simple when he gets it but I don't think he looks totally lost or that he's not up to it, but I admit he's not showed why he cost £20m yet, but there's a player in there.

The best cross of the evening came from Berge; sadly no one bothered to attack it.
He looks potentially good but never quite achieves more than adequate

 

[petcharlie]

One thing that worried me last night was the fact we hardly won any headers from Villas corners.Villa seamed to win them all and it was just the fact that they missed the target that kept us in it.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

One thing that worried me last night was the fact we hardly won any headers from Villas corners.Villa seamed to win them all and it was just the fact that they missed the target that kept us in it.

They caused us problems with every set-piece really due to their aerial threat. That may well have been a factor as to why we opted for Berge and Lundstram together rather than go with the much shorter Freeman or Osborn at LCM.

 

[Eddie odd legs]

Not going to bash on about the GLT or VAR. What does concern me is that of the 3 £20million + signings 1 started the game. The selection in midfield was optimistic (to be generous) & seemed to hold no plan as to how to play against a poor side in desperate straits. I thought Berger was pathetic - no effort,, no inclination to get his knees dirty. Does he expect passes to feet & time on the ball? His lack of involvement had to affect the other 2 - leadership on the pitch was lacking. I can't imagine John Terry , Tony Adams not reaming Berger out on the pitch & in the dressing room! Back to the opening concern . I hope Mr Wilder isn't yet another manager who becomes dangerous when money is available. Look at it as objectively as possible £62 million spent, peanuts in Premier League terms, but not inconsiderable in the Blades budget , but IMHO not shown any lasting value for money ___ yet.

 

[Antonb]

who is the 3rd 20 million signing? Both berge and Mcburnie started! Thats 2 things you have got wrong

 

[Deadbat]

It just seems to me Deadbat that Berge and McBurnie are signalled out by our fans and get more criticism than any other players, I can only think that's because they both cost £20m. I understand that brings expectation but the cost of the player doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to perform to their initial cost - obviously. I know you would say you're just seeing it as it is, but I think people are generally over critical on both and had Berge played as Norwood did and vice versa I still think people would be more critical of Berge, especially given that Norwood gave the ball away once in a critical area. I am not convinced by Berge yet, don't get me wrong. We haven't seen the form he had for Genk yet. But I don't think he's a weak link either or that he seems lost. I don't know where Wilder intends to play him in the long term, maybe he is to play Norwood's role. I know he didn't do well in that role v Reading. I imagine he's lacking confidence too right now but I don't think he was 3.5. Each to his own though and it seems I'm in the minority thinking Berge did ok.

As for McBurnie. He didn't win every header but almost every ball to him in the air he's got a defender right behind him and that type of ball is more likely to be won by a defender facing the ball, then an attacker with back to goal. As a contrast, a ball from the byline pulled back to the attacker is far more likely to be won by the attacker than the defender. We didn't get behind them much yesterday, once probably where McBurnie squared it to Lunny, but sadly it was quickly closed down. There wasn't many if any decent balls put in to the front two yesterday, that was my main disappointment from yesterday performance wise.

When you consider that we haven't played for 100 days and that we were missing Fleck - our best midfielder, and O'Connell, arguably our most attacking defender, then I think its not surprising that we didn't create as much for the front two. I think that has to be taken into account when giving a low mark for a forward. Overall I thought it was a decent performance all things considered. Not trying to be critical of your assessment, as I'm sure you know, I just see it differently.

We will agree to disagree. I cannot see how that can be seen as a decent performance. Yes we are rusty but so are they. We did not have a shot on goal all game (maybe Mcburnie header) and they looked far more dangerous. We were really poor last night as most neutrals have said and accepted if it was not for the incident, Villa really did deserve to win. They were not great and a really poor side so worrying that they ran over us for periods of that game. Hope we get back to it on Sunday.

Norwood did give the ball away once but at least he was taking responsibility. I'd be more inclined to praise Berge if he was having a go with more adventurous balls or dribbles or anything really. He looks like he wants rid of the ball. As for the post about him doing ok in the Norwood role v Reading- I did not see that but again a game of opinions. Ultimately Norwood has just signed longer term deal - he is going nowhere and is vital to what we do so Berge is not playing there anytime soon. So no idea what you do with him. To me this positional thing is a bit of a get out. As someone else said, I just want him to put more effort in and at least break into a sprint - as someone said he does not even get dirty. When he has it he seems to think he had ages to make a decision. He is just woefully off the pace and maybe the step up from the Belgian league is too much.

It is early days but I don't see this player in there that everyone else does. So far in 5 or 6 games he has done nothing of note- regardless of whether he cost 0 or 22 million. To me in most games he has played (save Palace first half and Reading for a period) he has been a weak link in that he has been anonymous.

 

[Addison]

Putting the controversy of the ghost goal to one side I agree with most of that but didn't expect us to be firing on all cylinders. We always start new seasons slowly and this is a new mini season. Not sure why that is because Villa for all their grumblings about restart looked sharper all over the pitch. Having said that it doesn't help when CW goes against his instinct and plays a completely unbalanced midfield. It was evident from the off the last minute switch because of injuries was not working. Hopefully those three won't play together again in that formation unless we have a run on injuries.

Sharp and Mcburnie need players running off them it hardly happened all night as the absence of Fleck and JOC was a stark reminder of how thin on the ground we are on quality back up players. Mind you if the likes of Luke Freeman are going to be overlooked in the position where they have provided cover already this season then we'll never know how good the back up is.

Pluses well Robinson seemed to fit in well but he's not JOC so defensively we looked solid but offensively we are weaker. Other than that Henderson kept us in the game but the rest looked leaden footed and you wonder whether we need to re assess the impact of this unprecedented mini season on how we train during the week. We are at the risk of increased injuries if the stats from the Bundesliga are to be believed and with our ever decreasing squad size we may need to come up with new ways to get the players up to speed as the games come thick and fast.

We are in a new football normal and no doubt CW and his team will take stock of why we were so flat. Maybe travelling direct to the game on the day of the match had an impact. We are overnight for the Newcastle game. Maybe the unusual arrangements for getting changed, not being all together in the dressing room and the lack of a crowd all impacted on us but one things for certain we'll never know how we might have played in the second half if we'd gone in 0-1 up at half time.

 

[Booker4]

We will agree to disagree. I cannot see how that can be seen as a decent performance. Yes we are rusty but so are they. We did not have a shot on goal all game (maybe Mcburnie header) and they looked far more dangerous. We were really poor last night as most neutrals have said and accepted if it was not for the incident, Villa really did deserve to win. They were not great and a really poor side so worrying that they ran over us for periods of that game. Hope we get back to it on Sunday.

Norwood did give the ball away once but at least he was taking responsibility. I'd be more inclined to praise Berge if he was having a go with more adventurous balls or dribbles or anything really. He looks like he wants rid of the ball. As for the post about him doing ok in the Norwood role v Reading- I did not see that but again a game of opinions. Ultimately Norwood has just signed longer term deal - he is going nowhere and is vital to what we do so Berge is not playing there anytime soon. So no idea what you do with him. To me this positional thing is a bit of a get out. As someone else said, I just want him to put more effort in and at least break into a sprint - as someone said he does not even get dirty. When he has it he seems to think he had ages to make a decision. He is just woefully off the pace and maybe the step up from the Belgian league is too much.

It is early days but I don't see this player in there that everyone else does. So far in 5 or 6 games he has done nothing of note- regardless of whether he cost 0 or 22 million. To me in most games he has played (save Palace first half and Reading for a period) he has been a weak link in that he has been anonymous.

You'll be waiting a long time for Berge to sprint, or get his shirt dirty Deadbat. He isn't the type to be running at full pelt. He gets the ball, drifts with it past people (at Genk), turns, passes, repeat. I haven't noticed Norwood sprinting either to be honest. Again that's not his role. I don't remember Stewart McCall sprinting ever, but he was an excellent tackler, but Berge is known for his incisive passing, protecting the ball, and turning defence into attack with runs from deep. Without repeating myself, he's keeping it safe, and as you say, getting rid of it early. My guess is that he doesn't want to risk running with the ball and then lose it and the opposition score. I'm fairly sure that in Belgium they give you much more space on the ball which would also help a player like Berge.

My thinking is in time he'll become more confident when he starts to get used to the system and the football. I know its only amateur sport, but I've played and moved clubs and then the early days at a new club you're having to prove yourself, especially if you've come into the team and someone popular then has to move out. It's not always an easy transition and I never moved from home, or to a different country to a hotel - these are all factors that make the move harder for him at this stage in my view. Of course in Berge's case he's also got the record price tag label and that brings pressure. Its a catch-22 because my guess is he's lacking in confidence but you only get that from playing well but because he's lacking in confidence he isn't playing well! It can be a very slow process to get out of this, and hopefully he'll get there sooner rather than later. As others have said, Lunny and Coutts took over a year! Admittedly they didn't cost £20m, I'll give you that. But they were used to the pace of English football. I think he did well defensively on the corner that they headed wide. He got in the way and made it difficult, as did Robinson on one occasion. We all loved Morgan for his commanding headers but, again, Berge's not that type. In my experience as a Blades fan we generally take to 100% effort types more than silky players, but Mark Patterson (loved him), Monty, Akinbiyi and even Morgs only take you so far. You need some class alongside that. We're in the PL and sometimes we need a player that is different. He's no doing what he did at Genk, don't get me wrong, but if he does then he'll be a great addition.

 

[Deadbat]

You'll be waiting a long time for Berge to sprint, or get his shirt dirty Deadbat. He isn't the type to be running at full pelt. He gets the ball, drifts with it past people (at Genk), turns, passes, repeat. I haven't noticed Norwood sprinting either to be honest. Again that's not his role. I don't remember Stewart McCall sprinting ever, but he was an excellent tackler, but Berge is known for his incisive passing, protecting the ball, and turning defence into attack with runs from deep. Without repeating myself, he's keeping it safe, and as you say, getting rid of it early. My guess is that he doesn't want to risk running with the ball and then lose it and the opposition score. I'm fairly sure that in Belgium they give you much more space on the ball which would also help a player like Berge.

My thinking is in time he'll become more confident when he starts to get used to the system and the football. I know its only amateur sport, but I've played and moved clubs and then the early days at a new club you're having to prove yourself, especially if you've come into the team and someone popular then has to move out. It's not always an easy transition and I never moved from home, or to a different country to a hotel - these are all factors that make the move harder for him at this stage in my view. Of course in Berge's case he's also got the record price tag label and that brings pressure. Its a catch-22 because my guess is he's lacking in confidence but you only get that from playing well but because he's lacking in confidence he isn't playing well! It can be a very slow process to get out of this, and hopefully he'll get there sooner rather than later. As others have said, Lunny and Coutts took over a year! Admittedly they didn't cost £20m, I'll give you that. But they were used to the pace of English football. I think he did well defensively on the corner that they headed wide. He got in the way and made it difficult, as did Robinson on one occasion. We all loved Morgan for his commanding headers but, again, Berge's not that type. In my experience as a Blades fan we generally take to 100% effort types more than silky players, but Mark Patterson (loved him), Monty, Akinbiyi and even Morgs only take you so far. You need some class alongside that. We're in the PL and sometimes we need a player that is different. He's no doing what he did at Genk, don't get me wrong, but if he does then he'll be a great addition.

I agree with many of your points - maybe he is not expected to always be a stuck in, run around type player but if you are not that sort in the Premier League you have to show other qualities (Norwood long range passing, build up for instance, be able to dribble, shoot, penetrate)

I have not seen him drift past anyone yet sadly - maybe the level at Genk means the players in that league are slower. Not seen any runs from deep. I admit you are right he is playing it safe and worried about things but if he continues like he is then he isnt going to be in the Premier League for very long as he needs too do much more.

Your point about other Blades players and fans loving a trier is right and maybe loving those 100%ers more but also will say some others liked Hodges, McDonald were what you would call luxury players but did do things out of the ordinary or eye catching so fans would forgive the lack of the other stuff. If Berge had tried a few runs, long balls or runs from deep - anything really than a safe two yard pass (and even those were limited - he did not even show for the ball or come off angles). The worry for me is he does not seem to get basics in terms of where to run/positions etc. That is universal in football. My fear was the standard over there was so inferior and so much slower. He is not going to run through or past players over here like he did there and that is one of the issues. He lacks pace and strength - so if he does not get on the ball then he is offering very little. He has to impact a game in some ways.

We have seen neither side with Berge in terms of the quality on the ball or off it yet. We may well do and I hope I am right but I can't shy away from the fact he has been a major disappointment for me. I heard all these reviews and what a coup it was. He has been a non entity so far. He has had 3 months to get up to the same level of fitness as the others and after 10 minutes last night - he looked knackered. That is a concern.

I really hope he comes good and want him to do well but can only go on what I have seen so far. Do we keep him playing him and hope he improves or do we wait - hard one.

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

One thing that worried me last night was the fact we hardly won any headers from Villas corners.Villa seamed to win them all and it was just the fact that they missed the target that kept us in it.

Villa were very poor - almost as bad as us - doomed with the games the have coming up. Last one away to the Spammers could be a do or die for both clubs. Let's hope they are both down before then.

 

[Booker4]

I agree with many of your points - maybe he is not expected to always be a stuck in, run around type player but if you are not that sort in the Premier League you have to show other qualities (Norwood long range passing, build up for instance, be able to dribble, shoot, penetrate)

I have not seen him drift past anyone yet sadly - maybe the level at Genk means the players in that league are slower. Not seen any runs from deep. I admit you are right he is playing it safe and worried about things but if he continues like he is then he isnt going to be in the Premier League for very long as he needs too do much more.

Your point about other Blades players and fans loving a trier is right and maybe loving those 100%ers more but also will say some others liked Hodges, McDonald were what you would call luxury players but did do things out of the ordinary or eye catching so fans would forgive the lack of the other stuff. If Berge had tried a few runs, long balls or runs from deep - anything really than a safe two yard pass (and even those were limited - he did not even show for the ball or come off angles). The worry for me is he does not seem to get basics in terms of where to run/positions etc. That is universal in football. My fear was the standard over there was so inferior and so much slower. He is not going to run through or past players over here like he did there and that is one of the issues. He lacks pace and strength - so if he does not get on the ball then he is offering very little. He has to impact a game in some ways.

We have seen neither side with Berge in terms of the quality on the ball or off it yet. We may well do and I hope I am right but I can't shy away from the fact he has been a major disappointment for me. I heard all these reviews and what a coup it was. He has been a non entity so far. He has had 3 months to get up to the same level of fitness as the others and after 10 minutes last night - he looked knackered. That is a concern.

I really hope he comes good and want him to do well but can only go on what I have seen so far. Do we keep him playing him and hope he improves or do we wait - hard one.

I totally get your view also Deadbat, and I can see all of your points as valid. I think he did well for Genk in the Champions League though, so if that's true then that bodes well. You'e right re Hodges and McDonald. I also liked Hutchinson back in the day and he was a bit in and out, but had that bit of quality. Ironically, re Hodges, I was one of the few who was never sold on Hodges but I started going in 1992, and although I'd followed us for years I never saw Hodges at his best in that first half season on loan - when he was outstanding - and then the next season. He saw glimpses though.

Back to Berge and hopefully the Newcastle game we'll see him impose himself more if he comes on, I would hope Fleck will be back in and likely to be instead of Berge on current form.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

First game back and we looked rusty & far from our confident self with the ball , missed Fleck badly as the link player in the middle and lacked any creativity until Freeman & McGoldrick were introduced . Baldock got forward more of the two wingbacks offering an outlet , Robinson filled I well for JOC , the frontline had very little service & I cant remember too many shots on target from either team .
I don’t know WTF it is with us with football technology but it’s def not our friend !
Should have had 3 points but didn’t deserve more than the 1 we got .. the games are gonna be coming thick and fast so hopefully we’ll get back to where we were beforehand .
PS : Watching football without a crowd is shit , sterile beyond belief in hope it’s not too many months before we get our proper game back .. UTB

 

[Keen Blade]

If Berge is hiding against Villa , wtf is he gonna do when he faces up to Traore of Wolves or Pogba/Fernandez of Man Utd ? He'll need some marching powder in his system just to get him down the tunnel + onto the pitch ! Poor lamb , he needs to get a picture of Chris Morgan on his bedroom wall , cut himself a few facial scars + knock out a couple of his teeth to get the battle vibe going.

 

[essexblade73]

People thinking all midfielders need to run around like blue arse flies all the time and fly into tackles need dragging from the 1980s. The game has moved on and is more technical than ever at the top level. Give me a nice tidy midfielder who knows how to pass and ensure the team keep hold of the ball, as Berge is, over Terry fuckin Hurlock anyday. Too many squealers on these football forums, like that Aspinall twat who is always whinging on one of those facewank groups. If you dont enjoy the game stop watching it.

 

[PaulHalfway]

Away from home, we need pace up front, so we can break at teams
Oil and Billy are too slow when we break to put teams under pressure and offer a threat
Can’t complain too much we are in the PL and 6th, fabulous

 

[RegBlade]

My two penneth regarding the midfield 3 and their performance. I can see the argument both ways, but all of them had pretty poor to average games and it just depends which way you look at it and place the focus on. Berge was poor (3.5 poor I disagree but again all is fair) Norwood wasn't anywhere near his best, and Lunny while he was involved a fair bit must have given the ball away more times that I can count on both hands, and also was incredibly fortunate not to give away a penalty. So yeah all of them could have been viewed between a 4-6 out of 10 for me. But I appreciate that Sander just isn't getting involved in games enough. All in all we missed Fleck something rotten. UTB

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Not going to bash on about the GLT or VAR. What does concern me is that of the 3 £20million + signings 1 started the game. The selection in midfield was optimistic (to be generous) & seemed to hold no plan as to how to play against a poor side in desperate straits. I thought Berger was pathetic - no effort,, no inclination to get his knees dirty. Does he expect passes to feet & time on the ball? His lack of involvement had to affect the other 2 - leadership on the pitch was lacking. I can't imagine John Terry , Tony Adams not reaming Berger out on the pitch & in the dressing room! Back to the opening concern . I hope Mr Wilder isn't yet another manager who becomes dangerous when money is available. Look at it as objectively as possible £62 million spent, peanuts in Premier League terms, but not inconsiderable in the Blades budget , but IMHO not shown any lasting value for money ___ yet.

Patrick berger ?