VAR in theory not that bad

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Stu_Blade

Stu_Blade

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Taking my source from ESPN and putting my cowboy hat on for stats. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2020-21 VAR this season hasn't been that bad for us.
In theory the game against Chelsea we should have won 2-1 (2 VAR decisions against) . You could argue that no red card for Lundstram and we may have held on for 3 points rather than one. So we could in theory have 5 extra points there (2 wins rather than 1 draw)


However without VAR it "gave" us the wins vs Newcastle and Brighton instead of draws. Gave us a point vs Fulham. So that is 5 points it's given us.


With the Villa, West Ham (was a penalty being overturned for them) and Liverpool (1 for and 1 against) not mattering when it comes to the score. We beat Villa with 10 men VAR decision so that didn't matter.


So to conclude the VAR is against us in theory we could at best argue we are "owed 0 points" this season
 
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Stu_Blade said:
Taking my source from ESPN and putting my cowboy hat on for stats. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2020-21 VAR this season hasn't been that bad for us.
In theory the game against Chelsea we should have won 2-1 (2 VAR decisions against) . You could argue that no red card for Lundstram and we may have held on for 3 points rather than one. So we could in theory have 5 extra points there (2 wins rather than 1 draw)


However without VAR it "gave" us the wins vs Newcastle and Brighton instead of draws. Gave us a point vs Fulham. So that is 5 points it's given us.


With the Villa, West Ham (was a penalty being overturned for them) and Liverpool (1 for and 1 against) not mattering when it comes to the score. We beat Villa with 10 men VAR decision so that didn't matter.


So to conclude the VAR is against us in theory we could at best argue we are "owed 0 points" this season
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Never been against it in principle but be interested to see the stats for the previous season.
 
Stu_Blade said:
Taking my source from ESPN and putting my cowboy hat on for stats. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/eng...affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2020-21 VAR this season hasn't been that bad for us.
In theory the game against Chelsea we should have won 2-1 (2 VAR decisions against) . You could argue that no red card for Lundstram and we may have held on for 3 points rather than one. So we could in theory have 5 extra points there (2 wins rather than 1 draw)


However without VAR it "gave" us the wins vs Newcastle and Brighton instead of draws. Gave us a point vs Fulham. So that is 5 points it's given us.


With the Villa, West Ham (was a penalty being overturned for them) and Liverpool (1 for and 1 against) not mattering when it comes to the score. We beat Villa with 10 men VAR decision so that didn't matter.


So to conclude the VAR is against us in theory we could at best argue we are "owed 0 points" this season
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VAR is shit, even after replays they still come to the wrong decision. Thank the lord we won't have it next season.
 
Creates more problems than it solves for me, there's still plenty of stupid decisions with it, so what's the point of slowing the game down? Could say it's to do with the implementation of it, but I don't think it adds anything to the game. I feel there's a just as many instances of ruling goals out for toenails being offside than very blatant offsides been given.
 
VAR when used well as I have seen in other leagues its not bad.

VAR in the PL is shit because the so called best of the best refs in this country are utter crap. Hence why we no longer have an English ref at the World Cup or Euros.

Having been a supporter of VAR, I am totally done with it. If they want to keep it then it needs serious reform.
 
I'm all in favour of VAR being used to provide fair and just outcomes.
The big problem is that the people reviewing the footage are making errors in judgement and defeating the object of the technology.
What's needed is a panel of ex players (or pundits or both) to scrutinize the replays to get a proper professional view and the correct decisions.
 
It was never the bias that worried me. That'll probably be there to some degree but I maintain that VAR will always benefit the top teams over the others by its nature anyway.

It's all about football as a spectator sport, and VAR has made the game so much worse to watch. Aside from ruining the big moments because you no longer know if any of them will actually count, we've added even more stoppages to the game when the one thing I've wanted to deal with for years is the sodding timewasting and delays to the game.
 
Supposed to highlight 'clear and obvious' decisions. What we have instead is morons taking 4 and 5 minutes analysing every pixel of a replay to give decisions where someone is a micron offside etc.
We now have officials not giving decisions thinking "VAR'll sort the fucker out"
We are still due someone getting a serious injury in a passage of play that shouldn't have gone ahead if the referee had given a decision instead of waiting.
I've said it before. We don't need all this bollocks. Spend the money on additional officials. Have 4 'assistant referees' instead of 2 and ensure that they actually assist instead of waiting to agree with the ref.
 
bladesince64 said:
I'm all in favour of VAR being used to provide fair and just outcomes.
The big problem is that the people reviewing the footage are making errors in judgement and defeating the object of the technology.
What's needed is a panel of ex players (or pundits or both) to scrutinize the replays to get a proper professional view and the correct decisions.
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What's been needed for a long time is an overhaul to the way we train and produce referees. The treatment of refs in football wouldn't be tolerated for a second in any other sport I can think of. And then there's that for some reason we don't fast-track ex-pros the way you think we might. There's so many pros finish the game and want to stay involved, ones that have been around the blocks, played the game all their lives, but there isn't time after finishing a career (or the motivation, I suspect) to work up the ranks and become a ref.

There has to be a lot of retired League One or Two veterans who never made enough out of football to retire at 33, who won't get a coaching role, who want to stay in the game. I have no idea why we don't tap into that like any sane sport would. Instead VAR has been a huge overhaul to the game at the top level without ever addressing the issue that the refs looking at the monitor have shown enough times already they aren't really good enough.
 
Bladesman said:
VAR when used well as I have seen in other leagues its not bad.

VAR in the PL is shit because the so called best of the best refs in this country are utter crap. Hence why we no longer have an English ref at the World Cup or Euros.

Having been a supporter of VAR, I am totally done with it. If they want to keep it then it needs serious reform.
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Maybe we should outsource the decisions to Europe, and use the added delay for a piss break or to top up your drink???
 
VAR isnt the problem its the referees and people in charge, if they got the decisions right the first time they'd be no need for it. The standards of refs in the premier league is quite concerning tbh. were losing the game we love because of refereeing decisions
 
gordoncharles said:
Which leagues?

It's just as diabolical in Spain and they've had it longer, and in both their 1st and 2nd Divisions
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Germany, I have found most VAR decisions to be about right and they seem to make a decision fairly quickly.

All VAR has done is highlight even more how crap PL refs are.
 
VAR would be fine if it only came into play for clear and obvious errors. No zooming into to microscopic levels, just replayed at normal zoom/speed and if it can't be clearly seen within 30 seconds, go with on field decision. Surely anything more is going against the original aims of the technology?
 

VAR if used correctly for the reasons it was introduced is fine.

I've watched quite a lot of CL games this season (not been much else to do has there) and they use it spot on. Any contentious decision or moment they have a quick look and if not "clear and obvious" they just move on. Most done within 10 seconds or so with no use of lines to see if a players left testicle was offside. Very rarely do they ever go over 30/40 seconds.

Unfortunately the cretins in this country must have all sat round the table in the summer before it's introduction in this country and tried to work out how they could implement it and piss off as many fans as is possible.
 
mattbianco1 said:
You know he's a Wednesday fan?
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I didn't no. I thought they were majority owned by Disney with some other company owning part of it. If that's the case no more Disneyworld for the kids. Kids we are off to Skeggy instead!
 
Let’s not beat about the bush. VAR has turned the game into shit. It’s now got to the stage where they keep changing the rules of the game in order to validate its use and still the end decisions are baffling. VAR is miles away from its intended use, clear up the clear and obvious mistakes.
 
If the powers that be insist upon it (and they will because it will have cost a fortune), it needs to be for something blatantly obvious that the ref has missed, not all the fussing about some of the ridiculous offsides and red cards.

They need to take the rugby approach where if there isn't clear or obvious enough evidence to the naked eye that the ref has got it wrong, then the decision on field stands, ref and his linesmen are the closest to the action after all.
 
In theory, having Emilia Clarke bouncing up and down on little DronnieBlade wouldn’t be half bad either 😀.

UTB
 
Its the age old debate. VAR should be beneficial to the sport. How many years did we hear about teams complaining someone should have had a pen, never a pen, should have been a red or was not a red should have been a yellow, that offside looked wrong etc. This technology should have been able to eliminate this debate completely, taking the error rate down significantly. However, VAR is being run by incompetent fools. With offsides its being called for a toenail, a shirt sleeve. We dont need that can of forensic examination. Football is about goals. I hope VAR does eventually become universally accepted to be for the good of football but currently it is a joke.
 
scouseblade said:
Its the age old debate. VAR should be beneficial to the sport. How many years did we hear about teams complaining someone should have had a pen, never a pen, should have been a red or was not a red should have been a yellow, that offside looked wrong etc. This technology should have been able to eliminate this debate completely, taking the error rate down significantly. However, VAR is being run by incompetent fools. With offsides its being called for a toenail, a shirt sleeve. We dont need that can of forensic examination. Football is about goals. I hope VAR does eventually become universally accepted to be for the good of football but currently it is a joke.
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At least part of my issue is that when people talk about the good of the game and VAR they forget about it being a spectator sport. I've always been willing to sacrifice a degree of accuracy in the refereeing in favour of keeping football as a fast-paced game, in favour of being able to celebrate a goal without thinking it's two minutes until you know whether it counted or not. Football is also one of those sports where there's a lot of marginal decisions that we as fans debate for days over what should have been. Was that deliberate handball, was there "enough" contact or did the player dive, is it a goal-scoring opportunity etc. It was always wishful thinking at best to think that a video review would put an end to those arguments. Especially when the refs in the VAR room are the same group of refs on the pitch.

There's a lot of things we could do to improve football and the standards of referees. VAR was a quick-fix attempt that's ironically meant an even bigger overhaul to the way the game is played. All we've done is add an extra layer to the argument. We're still arguing about all the same decisions PLUS we now get to argue about "clear and obvious" or why VAR did or didn't review some incident PLUS extra delays to the game.

Lots of people promised that VAR wouldn't be like this. Then people promised that after a few months of adjustment it wouldn't be like this. Then it was that next season we'll have figured out how to change it up. I don't know how hard a system has to fail before we move on.
 
I argued against this sort of introduction of technology for years on the basis that football is a game that flows, most other sports stop and start. It was never going to work very well. Undoubtedly it could work better, but this oft repeated "VAR is fine, it's the implementation and the idiots running it that are the problem" is nonsense. If you give someone the job of doing something then they'll do it whether it's needed or not, whether it's helpful or not. When you say to a video referee that he has to check offsides then he'll check it to the limit of the technology and take as long as he is given to give a decision as near perfect as possible. Whether that is what the game needs is another matter, but as long as he's there to do that, that's what he'll do.
My solution before VAR appeared was to have video reviews of games where players would be penalised after the event for diving, simulation, cheating of any kind, trying to fool the ref and any dangerous or any off-the-ball aggression. Once they know they can't get away with it, it'll stop. Then the on field refs will be free to referee the game without having to decide whether something is real or fake, whether they are being conned or not. The entire game is dominated by free kicks and cards because grown men can't stand up for more than 40 seconds at a time.
The game has become pretty pathetic and VAR is barely helping with this at all. The handfull of important decisions that VAR is making aren't worth the destruction of the game as a flowing, spectator-orientated sport or the stupid rule changes.
 
Badger Blade said:
If the powers that be insist upon it (and they will because it will have cost a fortune), it needs to be for something blatantly obvious that the ref has missed, not all the fussing about some of the ridiculous offsides and red cards.

They need to take the rugby approach where if there isn't clear or obvious enough evidence to the naked eye that the ref has got it wrong, then the decision on field stands, ref and his linesmen are the closest to the action after all.
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In general, I agree that rugby handle the VAR situation better that football, but if anyone thinks rugby’s VAR is flawless then re-watch the Mark Cueto disallowed try in the 2007 Rugby World Cup Final. The decision to overturn the try was as bad a decision as you’ll ever see from a video ref.
 
Bladesman said:
All VAR has done is highlight even more how crap PL refs are.
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PokerBlade said:
At least part of my issue is that when people talk about the good of the game and VAR they forget about it being a spectator sport.
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Absolutely agree, I remember coming back from a match absolutely seething because we had spent a fortune on tickets, flights etc for a rare opportunity to go to a match, only for the referee to wrongly send a player off within the first ten minutes. Game ruined for the spectator irrespective of the result as it became a boring training match of attack v defence.

Fast forward to last night at Southampton, similar scenario but with the ‘ahem‘ luxury of VAR and they still can’t get it right.
 
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