United's Greatest Goalscorers

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

I went down a rabbithole this afternoon and ended up with 2 lists - Pre and post 2nd WW - of Uniteds greatest goalscorers.

Explanation - Because I don't have exact data of goals scored per season, I had to use a weighted average. Basically, a goal scored in Division 1/Prem is worth 4 points and a goal scored in Divison 4 is worth 1 point.

Players goals score was calculated by taking their average season scored (total score of seasons played divided by seasons played.) so if a player played 4 seasons, 2 in division 1 and 2 in division 2 their score would be 4+4+3+3 divided by 4. Equalling 14/4 or 3.5. Their total goals scored record was then multiplied by 3.5.

I used goals per game, and goals per appearance to rank the players. I then made a total rank from those two figures to leave a final ranking.

Discuss, don't discuss. It doesn't matter. I love stuff like this so if you find it interesting I'm glad

Digs blade · May 28, 2020

Very good mate but a bit of a query. Why aren’t they in order of ranking or am I missing something n

Blade1959 · May 28, 2020

Carlton Blade said:
I went down a rabbithole this afternoon and ended up with 2 lists - Pre and post 2nd WW - of Uniteds greatest goalscorers.

Explanation - Because I don't have exact data of goals scored per season, I had to use a weighted average. Basically, a goal scored in Division 1/Prem is worth 4 points and a goal scored in Divison 4 is worth 1 point.

Players goals score was calculated by taking their average season scored (total score of seasons played divided by seasons played.) so if a player played 4 seasons, 2 in division 1 and 2 in division 2 their score would be 4+4+3+3 divided by 4. Equalling 14/4 or 3.5. Their total goals scored record was then multiplied by 3.5.

I used goals per game, and goals per appearance to rank the players. I then made a total rank from those two figures to leave a final ranking.

View attachment 81105

Discuss, don't discuss. It doesn't matter. I love stuff like this so if you find it interesting I'm glad

Are Brian Deane & Keith Edwards figures correct?

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

Blade1959 said:
Are Brian Deane & Keith Edwards figures correct?

No. I'll update it tomorrow. The order is right but the numbers aren't. I'll update it tomorrow

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

Digs blade said:
Very good mate but a bit of a query. Why aren’t they in order of ranking or am I missing something n

They are in order of weighted goals per game. Didn't want to put too much info up their. I'll add to it tomorrow

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

The pre war stuff is all correct. I'll update the post war tomorrow

coaxingstar71 · May 28, 2020

Silent Blade · May 28, 2020

Blade1959 said:
Are Brian Deane & Keith Edwards figures correct?

4.00 = all the goals were scored in top tier

Most of the goals Sharp, Edwards, Morris were scored in the 3rd tier and below = below 3

All Dodds goals for us were in the 2nd tier = 3.17

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

Silent Blade said:
4.00 = all the goals were scored in top tier

Most of the goals Sharp, Edwards, Morris were scored in the 3rd tier and below = below 3

All Dodds goals for us were in the 2nd tier = 3.17

I've done my best to try and get something workable based on the years they played for United and the division United were in at the time. Its not based on the years they scored their goals unfortunately. Its the years they were at the club. So Edwards was at the club in 75, Div 1 etc

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

Silent Blade said:
4.00 = all the goals were scored in top tier

Most of the goals Sharp, Edwards, Morris were scored in the 3rd tier and below = below 3

All Dodds goals for us were in the 2nd tier = 3.17

If I coukd get a record of who scored what for every season I would. Does that exist?

Silent Blade · May 28, 2020

Carlton Blade said:
If I coukd get a record of who scored what for every season I would. Does that exist?

Think grafikhaus might be able to help if you havent got the 2nd edition of Complete Records book by Denis Clareborough (2013, I think)

Silent Blade · May 28, 2020

Carlton Blade said:
I've done my best to try and get something workable based on the years they played for United and the division United were in at the time. Its not based on the years they scored their goals unfortunately. Its the years they were at the club. So Edwards was at the club in 75, Div 1 etc

Edwards has never scored in the top tier for any clubs.

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

Silent Blade said:
Edwards has never scored in the top tier for any clubs.

I know. But he is listed as a United player in 75. I don't have appearances/goals per season

Silent Blade · May 28, 2020

Carlton Blade said:
I know. But he is listed as a United player in 75. I don't have appearances/goals per season

1st division
1975/76 2 league starts + 1 sub no goals

2nd division
1976/77 30 league starts + 1 sub 18 goals
1977/78 32 league starts + 4 subs 11 goals

4th division
1981/82 41 league starts 35 goals

3rd division
1982/83 37 league starts + 5 subs 13 goals
1983/84 44 league starts 33 goals

2nd division
1984/85 29 league starts 13 goals
1985/86 32 league starts + 3 subs 20 goals

Carlton Blade · May 28, 2020

Silent Blade said:
1st division
1975/76 2 league starts + 1 sub no goals

2nd division
1976/77 30 league starts + 1 sub 18 goals
1977/78 32 league starts + 4 subs 11 goals

4th division
1981/82 41 league starts 35 goals

3rd division
1982/83 37 league starts + 5 subs 13 goals
1983/84 44 league starts 33 goals

2nd division
1984/85 29 league starts 13 goals
1985/86 32 league starts + 3 subs 20 goals

That comes out at 2.625. Not a million miles away from where I had it. But you're right, it's not a fair reflection. It should be on goals scored by division

Blade1959 · May 28, 2020

It was really the substitute appearances I was questioning, I didn’t think Deane made any but was sure Edwards did

Carlton Blade · May 29, 2020

Silent Blade - I've done some work on it this morning (woke up early, did it before work because I'm sad like that!). The below tables more accurately reflect the seasons played by each player and give more detail as to the rankings - It's still not complete because it doesn't (yet) allow for the division the goals were scored in because the weighting score just shows the average division they played in for their career. But it's getting there

Revolution · May 29, 2020

This is really interesting, and would be even better if:

1. You actually went and checked the seasons in which the goals were scored, which is in the Complete Record.
.
2. You took out cup goals, which distorts it. For example, Deano scored an FA Cup hattrick in 1993, for PL United against third tier Burnley, and Keith Edwards got a league cup hattrick in 1983, for third tier United against second tier Grimsby. Under this system Deano gets more credit than he should, and Edwards gets less.

grafikhaus · May 29, 2020

Silent Blade said:
Think grafikhaus might be able to help if you havent got the 2nd edition of Complete Records book by Denis Clareborough (2013, I think)

You're right. If ever there was a case for a digital version of books, a 'Complete Record...' is one. Since 'The Bible' was published, we've had some monumental seasons which deserve recording. Here's the original thread and attached is the updates: (I'll be adding the 2019-20 season when it finishes. Troy Deeney willing...)

Carlton Blade · May 29, 2020

Revolution said:
This is really interesting, and would be even better if:

1. You actually went and checked the seasons in which the goals were scored, which is in the Complete Record.
.
2. You took out cup goals, which distorts it. For example, Deano scored an FA Cup hattrick in 1993, for PL United against third tier Burnley, and Keith Edwards got a league cup hattrick in 1983, for third tier United against second tier Grimsby. Under this system Deano gets more credit than he should, and Edwards gets less.

I completely agree. I've done a complete version of 96-2020 because the data is easily accessible

Sheffield United 1996 - 2020 - A Statistical Journey

1996/1997 - 2019/2020 Players who have appeared in a senior game - 412 - Nick Montgomery has the most appearances with 398, 80 more than the next highest. 29 players only made one appearance Most League Appearances - Nick Montgomery - 349 FA Cup - Nick Montgomery - 25 League Cup - Montgomery...

www.s24su.com

But anything before that will take work

Carlton Blade · May 29, 2020

grafikhaus said:
You're right. If ever there was a case for a digital version of books, a 'Complete Record...' is one. Since 'The Bible' was published, we've had some monumental seasons which deserve recording. Here's the original thread and attached is the updates: (I'll be adding the 2019-20 season when it finishes. Troy Deeney willing...)

96-2020 records are accessible (Can't be sure they are 100% correct but I'm reasonably confident). It's anything before that

Sheffield United 1996 - 2020 - A Statistical Journey

1996/1997 - 2019/2020 Players who have appeared in a senior game - 412 - Nick Montgomery has the most appearances with 398, 80 more than the next highest. 29 players only made one appearance Most League Appearances - Nick Montgomery - 349 FA Cup - Nick Montgomery - 25 League Cup - Montgomery...

www.s24su.com

grafikhaus · May 29, 2020

Silent Blade said:
Think grafikhaus might be able to help if you havent got the 2nd edition of Complete Records book by Denis Clareborough (2013, I think)

Have you got a link to the updated book, Silent? When does it go up to?

Silent Blade · May 29, 2020

grafikhaus said:
Have you got a link to the updated book, Silent? When does it go up to?

Up to and including the 2011-12 season

Sheffield United

Denis Clareborough and Andrew Kirkham have lovingly put together every game, attendance and player, every fact and figure that any self-respecting Blade could ever want at their fingertips.

books.google.co.uk

Silent Blade · May 29, 2020

Carlton Blade said:
Silent Blade - I've done some work on it this morning (woke up early, did it before work because I'm sad like that!). The below tables more accurately reflect the seasons played by each player and give more detail as to the rankings - It's still not complete because it doesn't (yet) allow for the division the goals were scored in because the weighting score just shows the average division they played in for their career. But it's getting there

View attachment 81169

Just realised.. what about Joe Kitchen?

Carlton Blade · May 29, 2020

Silent Blade said:
Just realised.. what about Joe Kitchen?

The list I had said he'd only scored 11 goals. Just looked him up. The list is obviously a typo because he's listed on his own page as scoring 104 in 248 between 1908 and 1921. I'll have to update it again!

coaxingstar71 · May 30, 2020

grafikhaus said:
You're right. If ever there was a case for a digital version of books, a 'Complete Record...' is one. Since 'The Bible' was published, we've had some monumental seasons which deserve recording. Here's the original thread and attached is the updates: (I'll be adding the 2019-20 season when it finishes. Troy Deeney willing...)

This is brilliant.
Note the result and scorers from the last game of 2018/19 v Stoke are missing.

grafikhaus · May 30, 2020

Silent Blade said:
Up to and including the 2011-12 season

Sheffield United

Denis Clareborough and Andrew Kirkham have lovingly put together every game, attendance and player, every fact and figure that any self-respecting Blade could ever want at their fingertips.

books.google.co.uk

I misunderstood. I thought an updated version was available which I'd definitely have bought.

coaxingstar71 said:
This is brilliant.
Note the result and scorers from the last game of 2018/19 v Stoke are missing.

I must have posted too early! Attached is the 'up-to-date' records of 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons. Some of this season (i.e. the league table) is just there as a 'placeholder', to be amended as and when.

As I've probably said elsewhere, there are a few glaring mistakes in Clareborough's 'Bible'.

coaxingstar71 · May 30, 2020

grafikhaus said:
I misunderstood. I thought an updated version was available which I'd definitely have bought.

I must have posted too early! Attached is the 'up-to-date' records of 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons. Some of this season (i.e. the league table) is just there as a 'placeholder', to be amended as and when.

As I've probably said elsewhere, there are a few glaring mistakes in Clareborough's 'Bible'.

Thanks for this.

Carlton Blade · Jun 1, 2020

Silent Blade - Did some work on team performance using some online data I've found - 1892 - Present day collated League performace

115 Seasons	Total (1892 - Present)	Home	Away	Total	For	Against	GD	Points
	Win	1293	662	1955	7401	6865	536	5830
	Draw	608	597	1205
	Loss	522	1162	1684

62 Seasons	First Division	Home	Away	Total	For	Against	GD	Points
	Win	607	275	882	3561	3787	-226	2406
	Draw	300	270	570
	Loss	286	646	932

43 Seasons	Second Division	Home	Away	Total	For	Against	GD	Points
	Win	526	289	815	2962	2439	523	2542
	Draw	240	255	495
	Loss	188	410	598

9 Seasons	Third Division	Home	Away	Total	For	Against	GD	Points
	Win	145	86	231	784	598	186	786
	Draw	60	65	125
	Loss	48	102	150

1 Season	Fourth Division	Home	Away	Total	For	Against	GD	Points
	Win	15	12	27	94	41	53	96
	Draw	8	7	15
	Loss	0	4	4

Carlton Blade · Jun 1, 2020

Cup History

FA Cup		For	Against
Games	374	558	426
Win	171
Draw	91
Loss	112

League Cup		For	Against
Games	170	262	241
Win	75
Draw	33
Loss	62

United's Greatest Goalscorers

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