United 1 Leeds 3 - thoughts/ratings

[United Aren't Back.]

Thank you, Deadbat, it's reassuring that I'm not the only one feeling more positive after a defeat!!

My eldest son's friend knows Hamer quite well, he can do no wrong in Wilder's eyes. In the dressing room, he is immune from criticism, which surprised me initially, but since being told, the body language between the two, then Hamer and other players, supports the theory, which is a worry.

Not surprised. Anyone managing that would order him to lay off the churrasco and lose a stone.

 

[Revolution]

Great report on what was a really good game.

In addition to the teams and the ref, for those watching on Sky the commentary team (Weaver, Hinchcliffe and Brown) were also very good I thought.

There's been some excellent analysis in this thread and others about why we lost having played so well at the start and led for most of the contest. The one thing I keep coming back to is that they are a bit better than us, and there's no shame in that.

A few random thoughts:

- anyone who says we should not have brought Hamer on has their Captain Hindsight goggles on. Wilder was not going to leave our best player sitting on the bench during that game, and rightly so. No one could have predicted that he would weaken us.

- Clarke's one on one defending is wretched. He's rarely close to his man and when he is you can go round him like he isn't there. His much-vaunted attacking skills haven't really been to the fore either. I will defend the Choudhury sub because their forays down the left stopped when he came on.

- Souza was outstanding, as many have said. Here, however, was one place where I felt the ref did not do so well. It felt like a Revie-era rotation fouling plan was in effect: I swear that about 4 different players brought him down in the first half. This looked deliberate targeting by the team and should have been nipped in the bud.

Every reason to think we will see that standard again this season, though if we get anything at Burnley I will be very surprised.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Thank you, Deadbat, it's reassuring that I'm not the only one feeling more positive after a defeat!!

My eldest son's friend knows Hamer quite well, he can do no wrong in Wilder's eyes. In the dressing room, he is immune from criticism, which surprised me initially, but since being told, the body language between the two, then Hamer and other players, supports the theory, which is a worry.

I don't find that particularly concerning. Alex Ferguson was known for having certain favourites also.
Some players don't respond well to criticism.

Hamer is our best player and usually performs. I'd trust Wilder's judgement on getting a tune out of him, rather than the words of someone that is potentially jealous of his treatment.

 

[Proper Blade]

It's a good point about Hamer. A lot on here saying he would be good enough for the PL if we got promoted, but we didn't see it enough at the top level and we don't see it enough against the top Championship teams.

 

[Shawy24]

Great report on what was a really good game.

In addition to the teams and the ref, for those watching on Sky the commentary team (Weaver, Hinchcliffe and Brown) were also very good I thought.

There's been some excellent analysis in this thread and others about why we lost having played so well at the start and led for most of the contest. The one thing I keep coming back to is that they are a bit better than us, and there's no shame in that.

A few random thoughts:

- anyone who says we should not have brought Hamer on has their Captain Hindsight goggles on. Wilder was not going to leave our best player sitting on the bench during that game, and rightly so. No one could have predicted that he would weaken us.

- Clarke's one on one defending is wretched. He's rarely close to his man and when he is you can go round him like he isn't there. His much-vaunted attacking skills haven't really been to the fore either. I will defend the Choudhury sub because their forays down the left stopped when he came on.

- Souza was outstanding, as many have said. Here, however, was one place where I felt the ref did not do so well. It felt like a Revie-era rotation fouling plan was in effect: I swear that about 4 different players brought him down in the first half. This looked deliberate targeting by the team and should have been nipped in the bud.

Every reason to think we will see that standard again this season, though if we get anything at Burnley I will be very surprised.

I have a lot to say about our manager and his selections and in particular substitutions, most of which is critical of him. However you are spot on with the Clarke Choudhury substitution. It’s what he did afterwards that was crazy and that includes bringing Hamer on but sticking him out left against two flyers. Wilder must know from his own stats that in a sprint over 30 yards Bogle would have Hamer on toast.

 

[BerksBlade]

- Clarke's one on one defending is wretched. He's rarely close to his man and when he is you can go round him like he isn't there. His much-vaunted attacking skills haven't really been to the fore either. I will defend the Choudhury sub because their forays down the left stopped when he came on.

Clarke picked up an ankle injury late in the first half and couldn't carry on. But it was probably the right call to replace him anyway because he was getting beaten repeatedly. Got absolutely no help from JRS mind.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

I thought we were unlucky to lose 3-1. There were positives in the way we attacked and made them look shaky at times. However, the one thing which let us down in a big way was not preventing crosses going in.

 

[andy m]

I thought we were unlucky to lose 3-1. There were positives in the way we attacked and made them look shaky at times. However, the one thing which let us down in a big way was not preventing crosses going in.

We have been poor in preventing crosses all season. It wasn't a problem until Souttar got injured as he won everything that came into the box.

 

[wadblade]

Question could McCullam play left sideCB he is good enough in the air

 

[Addison]

Insightful report. I've covered on another thread the 59th minute effect of subs. Moving BBD to the right and Davies left us wide open down the flanks. We were better than Weeds for 59 minutes but lack of fit players and poor game management cost us. It was a good advert for the Championship but highlighted our failings, defence can't cope with high balls into the box and raw pace.

Replicate the first 59 minutes for the full 90 and we keep in touch with automatic places. I'm not optimistic we will. Our Achilles heel, the loss of Souttar and the Anel/Robinson partnership remains. Add full backs who struggle against pace and the result is 2 headed goals conceded against Weeds. We don't set up to attack the ball on crosses. JLT in no mans land for the first. Second from the corner Robinson not close to his man Struijk who runs past him. Struijk would have had a free header but Choudhurys player Firpo gets in front of him and deflects the ball to Tanaka not marked by Hamer and we concede. The defensive organisation was poor and perplexing that we had not brought on Holding and McCallum.

CW doesn't recognise a problem exists. We miss the leadership and organisation of Souttar. Holding needs to be tested starting games not picking splinters out of his arse on the bench. I agree continuing with the Anel / Robinson partnership will potentially cost us automatics. QPR up next and JLT was at fault for both goals last time out against them.

We have major issues at RB. Clarke has a fundamental flaw in his game. He shows the line to pacy forwards and gets punished for it. Seriki is a big miss imo. He's made of biscuits but when he is eventually back I am concerned he may not get in the squad as CW picks his JTW signings at the expense of the youngsters. Brooks would have been ideal to replace JRS and shore up the right hand side but wasn't in the squad on Monday.

Teams who lose less and concede fewer goals generally get promoted. Call me old fashioned but defenders primary function should be to defend. After a very good start we have fallen behind Burnley and Weeds in that respect. 1 win and 4 losses in big games to date tells me we need to avoid the play offs at all costs.

 

[Argentinemanager]

With the mark for choudary, in my opinion hes the worst player with the ball ive seen in ages, but without the ball hes an unbelievable winner, gets his foot in and challenges for everything winning most battles, but to play him at full back where he will need to use the ball is foolish bordering on incompetant

 

[wardonia_blade]

Agree with you on the ref. Excellent. That kind of game is a premier league audition. Wouldn't be surprised to see him and Lewis Smith ( did the derby) in the premier league next season.

 

[Shawy24]

Insightful report. I've covered on another thread the 59th minute effect of subs. Moving BBD to the right and Davies left us wide open down the flanks. We were better than Weeds for 59 minutes but lack of fit players and poor game management cost us. It was a good advert for the Championship but highlighted our failings, defence can't cope with high balls into the box and raw pace.

Replicate the first 59 minutes for the full 90 and we keep in touch with automatic places. I'm not optimistic we will. Our Achilles heel, the loss of Souttar and the Anel/Robinson partnership remains. Add full backs who struggle against pace and the result is 2 headed goals conceded against Weeds. We don't set up to attack the ball on crosses. JLT in no mans land for the first. Second from the corner Robinson not close to his man Struijk who runs past him. Struijk would have had a free header but Choudhurys player Firpo gets in front of him and deflects the ball to Tanaka not marked by Hamer and we concede. The defensive organisation was poor and perplexing that we had not brought on Holding and McCallum.

CW doesn't recognise a problem exists. We miss the leadership and organisation of Souttar. Holding needs to be tested starting games not picking splinters out of his arse on the bench. I agree continuing with the Anel / Robinson partnership will potentially cost us automatics. QPR up next and JLT was at fault for both goals last time out against them.

We have major issues at RB. Clarke has a fundamental flaw in his game. He shows the line to pacy forwards and gets punished for it. Seriki is a big miss imo. He's made of biscuits but when he is eventually back I am concerned he may not get in the squad as CW picks his JTW signings at the expense of the youngsters. Brooks would have been ideal to replace JRS and shore up the right hand side but wasn't in the squad on Monday.

Teams who lose less and concede fewer goals generally get promoted. Call me old fashioned but defenders primary function should be to defend. After a very good start we have fallen behind Burnley and Weeds in that respect. 1 win and 4 losses in big games to date tells me we need to avoid the play offs at all costs.

I could add so much more as to how Wilder screwed up with those subs. However please have a like for a succinctly put part analysis which is devastatingly accurate as far as it goes.

 

[FinchleyBlade]

Not surprised. Anyone managing that would order him to lay off the churrasco and lose a stone.

I happen to know of a Kebab shop in Dronfield where Hamer lives who are big fans of him too...

 

[Nagima]

Leaving aside Clarke can't read the game defensively. Hamer moving in field and leaving huge gaps for Leeds. Leaving aside that Leeds are a good team.

Our biggest issue is Leadership on the field. Souttar is a huge loss in this regard. Anel and Robbo are too emotional to see things clearly and communicate effectively. Vini does the hard work but isn't a communicator. Hamer no. JRS no. O'Hare hard working but not the leader we need. Peck a bit young and raw.

Unless Holding plays and shows he can command. Or Tom Davies gets a run of games, then I am worried about being in the playoffs.

What I mean about leadership is this. Somebody in the CM or CB positions who can see and understand what is going on and then starts to communicate with players regarding positioning, decision making and opportunities.

It was obvious to me the first 5 minutes that Clarke can't defend. He realises a ball is going to be trouble 0.5 seconds too late thus leaving the winger a head start. He hasn't learnt anything over the last 3 weeks which makes me wonder what the coaching staff are doing. His partners in defence don't seem to tell him what he is doing wrong.

We know Leeds are a good side. We started so well but we still need that organiser to direct things on the pitch.

 

[Charlieblade]

Excellent report, well worth waiting for. Thank you.