United 1 Forest 3 - report

[Deadbat]

The all too familiar feeling of defeat occurred again at the Lane on Saturday afternoon as this time local rivals Forest went a long way to sealing their place in the top flight with a come from behind victory. As with the previous two games against Burnley and Newcastle, the Blades should have been out of sight by half time by poor finishing and defending saw them somehow go in level. The second half saw the visitors ease away from the home side and in the end saw out a comfortable victory in front of a jubilant away following.



With nothing but pride to play for, Wilder only made one change with Robinson back in for Holgate in defence and skippering the side. United began with four former Forest players in the starting line-up, Robinson, Osborn, Ahmedhodzic and Brereton Diaz. Brewster was a surprise inclusion back on the bench. Forest began with former Blade Morgan Gibbs White in their starting line-up – with boos bizarrely accompanying his name being announced – repeating what had happened with Sander Berge a fortnight ago.



The game began with Forest almost in front after a minute as that man Gibbs White got down the right and sent over a cross and as United ball watched, Wood smashed narrowly wide. He should have scored. However, the Blades managed to get on the ball with Hamer and Arblaster often the main architects and Brereton Diaz looked busy. There were a few promising moments and then the Blades won a penalty. Archer took the ball on and played it onto BRERETON DIAZ who took a touch to take it away from the defender Montiel who clumsily upended the striker. It was a poor piece of defending and seemed an obvious award. The Chilean striker took it and confidently sending Sels the wrong way.



United continued to go on the attack and Archer was played in but took too long and Murillo got back to make the last-ditch tackle. The Blades had looked dangerous in attack with gaps appearing all over the Forest backline but the defensive fragility at the other end was all too evident on 27 minutes, as Forest were back level. The ball was played over to the right diagonal of the box and with no pressure on the pass or the recipient, HUDSON ODOI saw the ball sit up perfectly for the half volley and his cushioned effort went beyond Foderingham and into the far corner and parity was restored.



Despite this, United responded an created five opportunities all before half time. Firstly, Bogle was played down the right after good football but his shot deflected wide. Brereton Diaz then was played in on the left but after jinking inside and sitting a defender down, his effort was blocked with the goal gaping. Archer was the next to go close after his clever skill took him clear of Boly seeing him race through but he took too long and Sels was able to parry the ball. Hamer then had an effort from range that the keeper tipped over – the second consecutive game at the Lane that a goalkeeper had been in inspired form. Archer then spooned over from close range after the ball bounced to him from the cross into the box. Another poor miss and good chance.



There was still time for Forest to have a chance of their own as once again sloppy play saw possession turned over and with nobody closing down Gibbs White again, the cross came over and Wood headed onto the bar. There was to be seven minutes of stoppage time (after an earlier clash which saw two of Forest’s players collide with each other) but there were not further chances in an extremely open contest, which United really should have been well clear of their opponents – repeating the story of a week ago.



The second half saw United enjoy some attacking moves with Hamer and Arblaster again linking up and Brereton Diaz having an effort blocked but once again conceded after a cross landed in the home box. There were appeals for a push on Brereton Diaz, but nothing was given and as the ball dropped, inexplicably nobody went to the ball or tried to react and YATES from almost the penalty spot smashed home under no pressure. There was a check, but as with the second Newcastle goal last week, the push on the striker was ruled not to be enough for VAR to overturn.



United were close to levelling when Hamer got down the right and worked space and drilled a low shot that went agonisingly wide. Brereton Diaz had a low shot saved by Sels too. Forest were looking much more of a threat this half though and gaps were appearing all over the field. Hudson Odoi had been a constant threat and Bogle had his work cut out to deny his galloping runs. From one, the former Chelsea man came inside and struck a post but not long after he found the intended target. It came to HUDSON ODOI on the right channel but why United’s defence let him come inside again, is anyone’s guess? The strike was precise but once again no pressure on the ball or man at all. It was just a routine pass and finish that was achieved with relative ease. United had now hit the ton – an unwanted record of conceding 100 goals in the league – a truly pathetic stamp on an absolutely horror show of a season.



The soft spine of United was now clearly in evidence as Forest scented further goals. McAtee replaced the ineffective Brooks and Souza came on for the disappointing Archer. The game was now petering out and the Blades heads had dropped again and seemed well beaten with barely a challenge or tackle being put on as it resembled a practice game with oles from the Forest fans rubbing salt in the wounds of the home fans, a number whom had started to leave the Lane. Ahmedhodzic’s frustration was evident when he brought Hudson Odoi down for a yellow card and then stupidly, in stoppage time, led with an elbow on Dominguez, to quickly get a second yellow and then a subsequent red. The game finished seconds after and it was 5 defeats in a row and 12 without a victory (9 since a win at the Lane).

 

[Deadbat]

United – Hard to know what to say anymore? Just read what I said last week and the week before. The bright spots are that we are actually looking a threat attacking wise and with better and cooler finishing, could and should have scored 4 or 5 goals in each of the last three games. However, we didn’t and then give up stupid goals to let teams back into it. We know second half that we will concede and then inevitably our heads drop and we concede more and it just becomes very predictable. We have seen some promise in the way we have moved it forward and Hamer and Arblaster continue to be positive and also the loan lads have made good runs or linked well (but not finished their dinner the last few weeks). The defensive fragility continues though and it is concerning that we have no structure or shape in how we set up to stop teams coming through us at will. To be fair, even though we could have scored 4 or 5, Forest could have scored 3 themselves (Wood missed two big chances).



At half time, same as Newcastle, I was happy and felt it was entertaining and we had played quite well though but the second half fade outs in terms of the fitness, mentality, and inability to keep passing the ball or doing the things that had served us well, is beyond alarming. We just fall apart. Teams get in front and we are done. Toast. The body language of most of the players is pathetic and they show what they are, gutless losers who are creating records all over the place. The way teams just play one pass and are in (to be fair we did the same to them today but did not have the class they had to finish chances) and a player just is one on one. Teams are not scoring clever, intricate or brilliant goals (granted some decent finishes from Hudson-Odoi). It is one channel ball and then bang, they are in and they score. It’s really down to poor individual play and decisions but also the lack of us having any proper structure in how we defend. We still should be able to attack and pass it forward without knowing if we lose it (Arblaster did a few times but tried to be positive) that a team would essentially be in on us at the other end. This is at 1-1 and 1-2 as well with half an hour left and not as if it is the last minute and we are just chucking the sink at them. It’s bizarre how we thing that is how we are going to win games.



For all that, the play between the two boxes, there was not much in the two teams until the last maybe 20 minutes when they just coasted to the win. We had as much good play, passing and creativity but simply could not bury really good chances and then when they get them, they finish as our defence is hopeless. The players continued to just almost accept goals going in and hammerings weekly. Watching a number when goals went in was interesting as the range of reactions veered from head down and look at the turf to pointing at others and trying to blame someone else. There is no individual or collective responsibility and why we must move a number on – wrongly we kept too many from last times disastrous relegation campaign. A big statement needs to be made from Wilder and I would transfer list/move on the likes of Trusty, Ahmedhodzic and Souza as soon as the season ends to try and change the culture. We have some shoots of light in Hamer, Arblaster and some we can maybe plug in still in Robinson, Bogle and McBurnie if he remains but the rest of the side will need completely rebuilding – both half a side of starters and another half a dozen competent player to compete/be on the bench. We will need to bring in at least 10-12 players in my opinion as an even larger number will surely depart (with Larouci, Holgate, McAtee, Brereton Diaz, Archer – loans back and maybe 7 or 8 others via transfers/free agency will move on).



I did not see us getting another point a few weeks ago and still don’t. I think we will be nearer 110 goals conceded than 100 now. That is beyond embarrassing. I get why v Forest and the professional integrity we had to play our ‘strongest team’ but now surely he had to take all the loans out -even if we play likes of Osula and Brewster, in the final few games. There is nothing to be gained at all in playing lads who will not be here? We may as well play some of the lads that will be here- even if they are not good enough!



It is incredibly depressing at the moment to keep turning up for games and knowing what will happen. I think that for most, they cannot wait till the season is done in a fortnight. It feels just a complete waste of time these last few weeks. Fair play those going to Everton – but I am just glad now I only have the one game left to endure! The best thing about the game was the pre/post-match pints with a group of us but it is sad that much of our United talk centres on how laughable we are.



Ratings:



Foderingham 6/10 – Not a lot he could do with the goals really. Two others hit his bar/post. Did not really have too much else to do outside of this - few standard saves. Hard to know how to mark him as did not do much wrong but did not make any saves and 5 shots went past him!



Bogle 4/10 – I thought this was poorest he has been for some time and he has been one of our better players. Started well and had some good forward runs (one shot deflected wide) but he gives Hudson Odoi way too much time. Thought second half he was poor and nothing came off and then gave the same man way too much space for the third goal. He has to show him outside (granted Anel close too).



Osborn 4/10 – Too much space given on that side saw MGW send two crosses over unopposed – one in the first minute! Did a few ok things but struggled to offer much going forward and then second half they got down his side a fair bit too.



Ahmedhodzic 3/10 – First half did well and saw a few runs out of the back but he and others still poor as crosses came in (Wood unmarked first minute!). Second half he sort of lost his head and was wandering around and not keeping his shape. He then started to just dive in or not keep to a line with the defence. Then they score two goals with no challenge coming in and he was not able to help Bogle at all. The bookings were both ridiculous. His shrugging and body language continues to be that of someone who wants away and think it would suit all parties if that happens.



Trusty 4/10 – First half ok and won a few headers/tackles but again they have free chances (Wood x 2) and he seems unaware where his man is? Second half thought he was really poor – along with the rest of the defence as they just ran through. I watched him carefully and he never seems to win headers or impose himself and the striker comes out with the ball too easily. He just is a nothing sort of player that is not strong/good header of the ball but nor does he read the game or cut things out. He is a really poor player.



Robinson 5.5/10 – The best defender and he was only average really. Won a few headers and came out with it well when he could and kept it simple but again the whole defence then falls apart second half and as much as everyone goes in on Trusty/Anel (I have above), he is the captain and should see the defence is in a better line and shape but we have some going out and some staying – it’s all over the place.



Brooks 3/10 – Thought he looked like a startled rabbit/deer in headlights. His touch was poor, he looked to get rid whenever he had it and often backwards or sideways. His control often saw him lose it and then all second half kept looking at the bench and it was almost wanted to come off. Way off the standard we need at this level sadly. After his early promise, I think he has looked out of his depth since he has come back in and shown why he has not played. Hopefully he will come again.



Hamer 7.5/10 – Our best player today and by some way. Got on it, moved it forward, looked for passes and linked with the front two. Had a few efforts on goal and unlucky not to score. He was the main creative link and the only one who kept trying to force us forward and get on the ball. He was let down by many of the others today who could not finish or defend. Finishing the season really well and hopefully a promoted team does not look to sign him – I do not think they will.



Arblaster 6/10 – Not his best game today in comparison to what he has showed and I thought he was really careless with the ball a lot of the second half but he did continue to always look forward and get on the ball and try and pass it. He has this real skill of being where the ball is and picking it up and reading where it may drop. He started the game well and helped us control the midfield but after the break, I thought he overplayed if anything and too many times he was cut off or lost it and they broke and nearly scored a few times from his giveaways. As I say, he continued to try and look for positive passes/runs though and did not hide. He is not going to be top drawer every week of course and still looked one of the better players.



Brereton Diaz 6/10 – Thought his overall play, running and link work was more a 7.5 as he was a constant outlet and got into brilliant areas. Used it well and showed neat touches and passing but also was a threat. However, his choices when in front of goal were mostly poor. The penalty he won and converted but then he actually had 2 or 3 other good opportunities, much like the last few games and fluffed his lines taking too long or hitting a defender/the keeper. Still would love to have him around but cannot see it.



Archer 4/10 – Major disappointment again. Like BBD, he got into some good areas and his approach play/link work was positive and they both looked a threat but his composure and finishing was poor. He had 2 or 3 good chances. One he takes too long and is blocked, another ditto after clever skill to get away from Boly and then spooned another over. I thought 2nd half he sort of disappeared and right to get hooked. Felt he ended up going through the motions a bit – mind you he knows he is not here. If reports are right and that we essentially paid 4 million (if you take the fee we paid, that will come back when he goes back to Villa) for his loan – then this has been another waste of money. He has barely scored and not even been a regular due to form and injuries. Not a Premier League striker I am afraid and for all those saying he would be the one to give us a chance of staying up (course been tons of other issues) he has not really had anywhere near enough impact at all.



Subs -



McAtee 3/10 – Another that just seems to look disinterested. Came on and lost a few tackles. Had one run and cross but he looks like someone who will be glad to depart. A luxury player that has not worked out second time round.



Souza 4/10 – Came on, had a weak shot and won one tackle but also pointed at others and generally hid from the ball. He waved his arms around and told others what to do as he ambled around doing very little himself.





Manager: Wilder 4/10 – Will be frustrated that we basically should have been out of sight but then do not finish (tee to tee we were fine as he often says) and give us awful goals and then simply down tools again. We have nothing to change it on the bench so get he is hampered by personnel at this level but the complete lack of fight when we go behind does worry me. He is still incredibly bullish about next season and seems to feel he has a clear plan and already earmarked who is staying, going, and coming in. I am pleased he is still very enthusiastic but worry that in half a season we have not seen him get a side motivated or organised at all. His recent recruitment (BBD apart) has been appalling both this season and last time he was here – so concerning he will identify and get the right men in – he will not have much money at least – he often was better with less funds before! We will see what happens in the coming weeks and hopefully we see decisive action that his words seem to suggest will happen but I do worry without investment, how he can change round a sinking ship and one that I fear will slip into Championship mediocrity at best.





Forest- I did not even think Forest were that great. A good side would have put them away that first half. Like with Burnley, they had a bit of luck, stayed in the game and then were ruthless but these are two shocking sides, that any other season would have been done and dusted with their points tallies. They took their chances and will see today as an easy win but it was nowhere near that. They made it that towards the end but for 45 minutes, they were second best, as the manager admitted. They will stay up now and will chuck more money at it and probably break more rules. I have some sympathy for them as they are spending to try and compete and stay there and FFP and the rules around it are not really fit for purpose. However, having said that, they have still broken the rules they have signed up for and in some leagues/sports competitions, the likes of them and Everton would have simply been thrown out. Teams know they can overspend though and will risk even a points deduction as know the money and players they get means it is almost worth it. Not sure there is a proper deterrent to doing it. I do think they should just scrap it. If teams want to throw money they do not have and risk their future, then let them do it. Football has gone crazy now in terms of finances and these rules seem to be barely able to scrape the surface in terms of stopping this overspending all down the top league.





Opponent Man of the Match – Gibbs White did well in flashes with some good balls but did not see those runs we used to see at the Lane today – but clearly has been their best player and would not be shocked if someone like Newcastle or Spurs took him and he eventually ended up an England player. Hudson Odoi is someone who has come the other way, not getting enough chances at a top club, and dropped back but was their best player today and scored two great goals. The keeper Sels had a decent game – and made some good saves even if we should not have allowed him the opportunity to make them.



Opponent Weak link – Thought the defence was as bad as ours and we created as many clear chances – if not more. Boly looks clumsy but Montiel was slow and ponderous and obviously gave away the penalty.



Referee/Officials – No issues with the two yellows really for Anel. We barely put a tackle in till the end so no surprise there were no bookings for us till then – that is worrying in some ways and shows a complete lack of fight really. They had one – for the penalty. Outside of this, I felt the ref was good and was consistent in that he let a fair bit go (no issues if you stick to this and how you ref all game). In that sense the game was allowed to flow. I have to say the BBD push was not enough again (we have to be stronger). There was contact but there are hundreds like that in the box (granted the Chelsea one was disallowed last week) and it was not enough for me. I thought the referee was really good today and the fact he did not give lots of cheap fouls or ticky tacky stuff pleased me as allowed the game to flow and for an hour was a good game/contest till we sort of gave up again!



Crowd/Atmosphere – Seemed a lot less than 28,500 in. Big gaps on the sides of the Kop and the Upper Tier – guess they still count ST holders who do not attend but seemed a big drop off from normal and I would have suggested it was closer to 26 or 27 tops? Forest sold out and were noisy and supportive as you would expect when they won the game and gave their former players some stick – as we did. Not sure why we would boo Gibbs White – he was never our player and we never had any chance of signing him? He tried his guts out for us when he played for United – as a loan player and just cannot understand why we would boo him – he went back to Wolves who did not want him and Forest gave him a chance to play in the top flight. Strange behaviour to me but people can do what they want I suppose? Despite the chant, he is ten times the player McAtee is (a player who is also not ours but puts in a lot less effort than MGW ever did – as a comparison). The United fans were again with their team but as the game went away, it was more apathy than boos coming from the terraces – although Souza was booed on (did Archer get booed off too or was it just for Souza coming on?). By the end many had gone long before the end and it is just a meek acceptance of where we are at, that there is no anger towards the team, board, manager, or anyone. Just almost a shrug of acceptance. With Wednesday staying up, it completed a miserable day and season for the red and white half of the season. Just over a year ago, it looked like there would be two divisions between the sides but then the late goal in the play off semi and our complete mess of a summer meant we are now effectively below our city rivals (with the two-point deduction).

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Not just 3 easy scapegoats..4 if Grbic included...who must go....cunts like McBurnie and Brewster need offloading now not next fucking January. Take the decrepit old grandad with you as well

 

[Chilttheblade]

Keep going Deadbat,only 2 games to go !
In addition to all the other stuff to get depressed about,its the dearth of good young players coming through. If Brooks and Osuala are the best examples it says a lot about why we are in the trouble we are in. Let’s hope Arblaster continues his development.
Can anyone explain this ?
Perhaps it the same issue of recruitment and player development.

 

[Addison]

I admire your dedication DB yesterday second half was a difficult watch again.

You may as well cut and paste for the last 2 games. Start well, miss chances, concede, poor game management, don't change formation, don't use full complement of subs, players gassed, players lose heart and go through the motions. Bogle isn't a defender. Board no longer hiding behind the settee but seem to have disappeared down it never to be seen again. Rinse repeat.

" in half a season we have not seen him get a side motivated or organised at all"

That is also my concern with CW. He also seems hell bent on proving a point that he never liked the change to 5 subs because he never uses them and yet again complains the players ran out of steam. I desperately hope he can turn it around but fear his old school approach is no longer relevant in the modern game and like you I anticipate we will struggle next season without change on and off the field.

 

[JOE SHAW 1956]

United – Hard to know what to say anymore? Just read what I said last week and the week before. The bright spots are that we are actually looking a threat attacking wise and with better and cooler finishing, could and should have scored 4 or 5 goals in each of the last three games. However, we didn’t and then give up stupid goals to let teams back into it. We know second half that we will concede and then inevitably our heads drop and we concede more and it just becomes very predictable. We have seen some promise in the way we have moved it forward and Hamer and Arblaster continue to be positive and also the loan lads have made good runs or linked well (but not finished their dinner the last few weeks). The defensive fragility continues though and it is concerning that we have no structure or shape in how we set up to stop teams coming through us at will. To be fair, even though we could have scored 4 or 5, Forest could have scored 3 themselves (Wood missed two big chances).



At half time, same as Newcastle, I was happy and felt it was entertaining and we had played quite well though but the second half fade outs in terms of the fitness, mentality, and inability to keep passing the ball or doing the things that had served us well, is beyond alarming. We just fall apart. Teams get in front and we are done. Toast. The body language of most of the players is pathetic and they show what they are, gutless losers who are creating records all over the place. The way teams just play one pass and are in (to be fair we did the same to them today but did not have the class they had to finish chances) and a player just is one on one. Teams are not scoring clever, intricate or brilliant goals (granted some decent finishes from Hudson-Odoi). It is one channel ball and then bang, they are in and they score. It’s really down to poor individual play and decisions but also the lack of us having any proper structure in how we defend. We still should be able to attack and pass it forward without knowing if we lose it (Arblaster did a few times but tried to be positive) that a team would essentially be in on us at the other end. This is at 1-1 and 1-2 as well with half an hour left and not as if it is the last minute and we are just chucking the sink at them. It’s bizarre how we thing that is how we are going to win games.



For all that, the play between the two boxes, there was not much in the two teams until the last maybe 20 minutes when they just coasted to the win. We had as much good play, passing and creativity but simply could not bury really good chances and then when they get them, they finish as our defence is hopeless. The players continued to just almost accept goals going in and hammerings weekly. Watching a number when goals went in was interesting as the range of reactions veered from head down and look at the turf to pointing at others and trying to blame someone else. There is no individual or collective responsibility and why we must move a number on – wrongly we kept too many from last times disastrous relegation campaign. A big statement needs to be made from Wilder and I would transfer list/move on the likes of Trusty, Ahmedhodzic and Souza as soon as the season ends to try and change the culture. We have some shoots of light in Hamer, Arblaster and some we can maybe plug in still in Robinson, Bogle and McBurnie if he remains but the rest of the side will need completely rebuilding – both half a side of starters and another half a dozen competent player to compete/be on the bench. We will need to bring in at least 10-12 players in my opinion as an even larger number will surely depart (with Larouci, Holgate, McAtee, Brereton Diaz, Archer – loans back and maybe 7 or 8 others via transfers/free agency will move on).



I did not see us getting another point a few weeks ago and still don’t. I think we will be nearer 110 goals conceded than 100 now. That is beyond embarrassing. I get why v Forest and the professional integrity we had to play our ‘strongest team’ but now surely he had to take all the loans out -even if we play likes of Osula and Brewster, in the final few games. There is nothing to be gained at all in playing lads who will not be here? We may as well play some of the lads that will be here- even if they are not good enough!



It is incredibly depressing at the moment to keep turning up for games and knowing what will happen. I think that for most, they cannot wait till the season is done in a fortnight. It feels just a complete waste of time these last few weeks. Fair play those going to Everton – but I am just glad now I only have the one game left to endure! The best thing about the game was the pre/post-match pints with a group of us but it is sad that much of our United talk centres on how laughable we are.



Ratings:



Foderingham 6/10 – Not a lot he could do with the goals really. Two others hit his bar/post. Did not really have too much else to do outside of this - few standard saves. Hard to know how to mark him as did not do much wrong but did not make any saves and 5 shots went past him!



Bogle 4/10 – I thought this was poorest he has been for some time and he has been one of our better players. Started well and had some good forward runs (one shot deflected wide) but he gives Hudson Odoi way too much time. Thought second half he was poor and nothing came off and then gave the same man way too much space for the third goal. He has to show him outside (granted Anel close too).



Osborn 4/10 – Too much space given on that side saw MGW send two crosses over unopposed – one in the first minute! Did a few ok things but struggled to offer much going forward and then second half they got down his side a fair bit too.



Ahmedhodzic 3/10 – First half did well and saw a few runs out of the back but he and others still poor as crosses came in (Wood unmarked first minute!). Second half he sort of lost his head and was wandering around and not keeping his shape. He then started to just dive in or not keep to a line with the defence. Then they score two goals with no challenge coming in and he was not able to help Bogle at all. The bookings were both ridiculous. His shrugging and body language continues to be that of someone who wants away and think it would suit all parties if that happens.



Trusty 4/10 – First half ok and won a few headers/tackles but again they have free chances (Wood x 2) and he seems unaware where his man is? Second half thought he was really poor – along with the rest of the defence as they just ran through. I watched him carefully and he never seems to win headers or impose himself and the striker comes out with the ball too easily. He just is a nothing sort of player that is not strong/good header of the ball but nor does he read the game or cut things out. He is a really poor player.



Robinson 5.5/10 – The best defender and he was only average really. Won a few headers and came out with it well when he could and kept it simple but again the whole defence then falls apart second half and as much as everyone goes in on Trusty/Anel (I have above), he is the captain and should see the defence is in a better line and shape but we have some going out and some staying – it’s all over the place.



Brooks 3/10 – Thought he looked like a startled rabbit/deer in headlights. His touch was poor, he looked to get rid whenever he had it and often backwards or sideways. His control often saw him lose it and then all second half kept looking at the bench and it was almost wanted to come off. Way off the standard we need at this level sadly. After his early promise, I think he has looked out of his depth since he has come back in and shown why he has not played. Hopefully he will come again.



Hamer 7.5/10 – Our best player today and by some way. Got on it, moved it forward, looked for passes and linked with the front two. Had a few efforts on goal and unlucky not to score. He was the main creative link and the only one who kept trying to force us forward and get on the ball. He was let down by many of the others today who could not finish or defend. Finishing the season really well and hopefully a promoted team does not look to sign him – I do not think they will.



Arblaster 6/10 – Not his best game today in comparison to what he has showed and I thought he was really careless with the ball a lot of the second half but he did continue to always look forward and get on the ball and try and pass it. He has this real skill of being where the ball is and picking it up and reading where it may drop. He started the game well and helped us control the midfield but after the break, I thought he overplayed if anything and too many times he was cut off or lost it and they broke and nearly scored a few times from his giveaways. As I say, he continued to try and look for positive passes/runs though and did not hide. He is not going to be top drawer every week of course and still looked one of the better players.



Brereton Diaz 6/10 – Thought his overall play, running and link work was more a 7.5 as he was a constant outlet and got into brilliant areas. Used it well and showed neat touches and passing but also was a threat. However, his choices when in front of goal were mostly poor. The penalty he won and converted but then he actually had 2 or 3 other good opportunities, much like the last few games and fluffed his lines taking too long or hitting a defender/the keeper. Still would love to have him around but cannot see it.



Archer 4/10 – Major disappointment again. Like BBD, he got into some good areas and his approach play/link work was positive and they both looked a threat but his composure and finishing was poor. He had 2 or 3 good chances. One he takes too long and is blocked, another ditto after clever skill to get away from Boly and then spooned another over. I thought 2nd half he sort of disappeared and right to get hooked. Felt he ended up going through the motions a bit – mind you he knows he is not here. If reports are right and that we essentially paid 4 million (if you take the fee we paid, that will come back when he goes back to Villa) for his loan – then this has been another waste of money. He has barely scored and not even been a regular due to form and injuries. Not a Premier League striker I am afraid and for all those saying he would be the one to give us a chance of staying up (course been tons of other issues) he has not really had anywhere near enough impact at all.



Subs -



McAtee 3/10 – Another that just seems to look disinterested. Came on and lost a few tackles. Had one run and cross but he looks like someone who will be glad to depart. A luxury player that has not worked out second time round.



Souza 4/10 – Came on, had a weak shot and won one tackle but also pointed at others and generally hid from the ball. He waved his arms around and told others what to do as he ambled around doing very little himself.





Manager: Wilder 4/10 – Will be frustrated that we basically should have been out of sight but then do not finish (tee to tee we were fine as he often says) and give us awful goals and then simply down tools again. We have nothing to change it on the bench so get he is hampered by personnel at this level but the complete lack of fight when we go behind does worry me. He is still incredibly bullish about next season and seems to feel he has a clear plan and already earmarked who is staying, going, and coming in. I am pleased he is still very enthusiastic but worry that in half a season we have not seen him get a side motivated or organised at all. His recent recruitment (BBD apart) has been appalling both this season and last time he was here – so concerning he will identify and get the right men in – he will not have much money at least – he often was better with less funds before! We will see what happens in the coming weeks and hopefully we see decisive action that his words seem to suggest will happen but I do worry without investment, how he can change round a sinking ship and one that I fear will slip into Championship mediocrity at best.





Forest- I did not even think Forest were that great. A good side would have put them away that first half. Like with Burnley, they had a bit of luck, stayed in the game and then were ruthless but these are two shocking sides, that any other season would have been done and dusted with their points tallies. They took their chances and will see today as an easy win but it was nowhere near that. They made it that towards the end but for 45 minutes, they were second best, as the manager admitted. They will stay up now and will chuck more money at it and probably break more rules. I have some sympathy for them as they are spending to try and compete and stay there and FFP and the rules around it are not really fit for purpose. However, having said that, they have still broken the rules they have signed up for and in some leagues/sports competitions, the likes of them and Everton would have simply been thrown out. Teams know they can overspend though and will risk even a points deduction as know the money and players they get means it is almost worth it. Not sure there is a proper deterrent to doing it. I do think they should just scrap it. If teams want to throw money they do not have and risk their future, then let them do it. Football has gone crazy now in terms of finances and these rules seem to be barely able to scrape the surface in terms of stopping this overspending all down the top league.





Opponent Man of the Match – Gibbs White did well in flashes with some good balls but did not see those runs we used to see at the Lane today – but clearly has been their best player and would not be shocked if someone like Newcastle or Spurs took him and he eventually ended up an England player. Hudson Odoi is someone who has come the other way, not getting enough chances at a top club, and dropped back but was their best player today and scored two great goals. The keeper Sels had a decent game – and made some good saves even if we should not have allowed him the opportunity to make them.



Opponent Weak link – Thought the defence was as bad as ours and we created as many clear chances – if not more. Boly looks clumsy but Montiel was slow and ponderous and obviously gave away the penalty.



Referee/Officials – No issues with the two yellows really for Anel. We barely put a tackle in till the end so no surprise there were no bookings for us till then – that is worrying in some ways and shows a complete lack of fight really. They had one – for the penalty. Outside of this, I felt the ref was good and was consistent in that he let a fair bit go (no issues if you stick to this and how you ref all game). In that sense the game was allowed to flow. I have to say the BBD push was not enough again (we have to be stronger). There was contact but there are hundreds like that in the box (granted the Chelsea one was disallowed last week) and it was not enough for me. I thought the referee was really good today and the fact he did not give lots of cheap fouls or ticky tacky stuff pleased me as allowed the game to flow and for an hour was a good game/contest till we sort of gave up again!



Crowd/Atmosphere – Seemed a lot less than 28,500 in. Big gaps on the sides of the Kop and the Upper Tier – guess they still count ST holders who do not attend but seemed a big drop off from normal and I would have suggested it was closer to 26 or 27 tops? Forest sold out and were noisy and supportive as you would expect when they won the game and gave their former players some stick – as we did. Not sure why we would boo Gibbs White – he was never our player and we never had any chance of signing him? He tried his guts out for us when he played for United – as a loan player and just cannot understand why we would boo him – he went back to Wolves who did not want him and Forest gave him a chance to play in the top flight. Strange behaviour to me but people can do what they want I suppose? Despite the chant, he is ten times the player McAtee is (a player who is also not ours but puts in a lot less effort than MGW ever did – as a comparison). The United fans were again with their team but as the game went away, it was more apathy than boos coming from the terraces – although Souza was booed on (did Archer get booed off too or was it just for Souza coming on?). By the end many had gone long before the end and it is just a meek acceptance of where we are at, that there is no anger towards the team, board, manager, or anyone. Just almost a shrug of acceptance. With Wednesday staying up, it completed a miserable day and season for the red and white half of the season. Just over a year ago, it looked like there would be two divisions between the sides but then the late goal in the play off semi and our complete mess of a summer meant we are now effectively below our city rivals (with the two-point deduction).

Can't disagree with any of your summary really. I'm a Wilder fan and I personally think we have actually been better under him but , he's had the same players who turned out to be totally inadequate ! .. Souza ,Slimane , Larouci ,Traore etc. and as you say Holgate & Garbage are down to him ( and lack of money I suppose ? ). The one observation for me throughout this season has been the goalkeepers , I mean the last few matches ... The opposing goalie seems to save EVERTHING ! whether it's bound for the top corner or a point blank save on the goaline . Where as every shot goes into our net and sometimes what we call a worldy is just another save for them ??. I agree about needing 10/11 players and one of them has got to be a top - reliable goalie ?. Thanks for your hard work ...rather you than me lol.

 

[Carlton Blade]

United – Hard to know what to say anymore? Just read what I said last week and the week before. The bright spots are that we are actually looking a threat attacking wise and with better and cooler finishing, could and should have scored 4 or 5 goals in each of the last three games. However, we didn’t and then give up stupid goals to let teams back into it. We know second half that we will concede and then inevitably our heads drop and we concede more and it just becomes very predictable. We have seen some promise in the way we have moved it forward and Hamer and Arblaster continue to be positive and also the loan lads have made good runs or linked well (but not finished their dinner the last few weeks). The defensive fragility continues though and it is concerning that we have no structure or shape in how we set up to stop teams coming through us at will. To be fair, even though we could have scored 4 or 5, Forest could have scored 3 themselves (Wood missed two big chances).



At half time, same as Newcastle, I was happy and felt it was entertaining and we had played quite well though but the second half fade outs in terms of the fitness, mentality, and inability to keep passing the ball or doing the things that had served us well, is beyond alarming. We just fall apart. Teams get in front and we are done. Toast. The body language of most of the players is pathetic and they show what they are, gutless losers who are creating records all over the place. The way teams just play one pass and are in (to be fair we did the same to them today but did not have the class they had to finish chances) and a player just is one on one. Teams are not scoring clever, intricate or brilliant goals (granted some decent finishes from Hudson-Odoi). It is one channel ball and then bang, they are in and they score. It’s really down to poor individual play and decisions but also the lack of us having any proper structure in how we defend. We still should be able to attack and pass it forward without knowing if we lose it (Arblaster did a few times but tried to be positive) that a team would essentially be in on us at the other end. This is at 1-1 and 1-2 as well with half an hour left and not as if it is the last minute and we are just chucking the sink at them. It’s bizarre how we thing that is how we are going to win games.



For all that, the play between the two boxes, there was not much in the two teams until the last maybe 20 minutes when they just coasted to the win. We had as much good play, passing and creativity but simply could not bury really good chances and then when they get them, they finish as our defence is hopeless. The players continued to just almost accept goals going in and hammerings weekly. Watching a number when goals went in was interesting as the range of reactions veered from head down and look at the turf to pointing at others and trying to blame someone else. There is no individual or collective responsibility and why we must move a number on – wrongly we kept too many from last times disastrous relegation campaign. A big statement needs to be made from Wilder and I would transfer list/move on the likes of Trusty, Ahmedhodzic and Souza as soon as the season ends to try and change the culture. We have some shoots of light in Hamer, Arblaster and some we can maybe plug in still in Robinson, Bogle and McBurnie if he remains but the rest of the side will need completely rebuilding – both half a side of starters and another half a dozen competent player to compete/be on the bench. We will need to bring in at least 10-12 players in my opinion as an even larger number will surely depart (with Larouci, Holgate, McAtee, Brereton Diaz, Archer – loans back and maybe 7 or 8 others via transfers/free agency will move on).



I did not see us getting another point a few weeks ago and still don’t. I think we will be nearer 110 goals conceded than 100 now. That is beyond embarrassing. I get why v Forest and the professional integrity we had to play our ‘strongest team’ but now surely he had to take all the loans out -even if we play likes of Osula and Brewster, in the final few games. There is nothing to be gained at all in playing lads who will not be here? We may as well play some of the lads that will be here- even if they are not good enough!



It is incredibly depressing at the moment to keep turning up for games and knowing what will happen. I think that for most, they cannot wait till the season is done in a fortnight. It feels just a complete waste of time these last few weeks. Fair play those going to Everton – but I am just glad now I only have the one game left to endure! The best thing about the game was the pre/post-match pints with a group of us but it is sad that much of our United talk centres on how laughable we are.



Ratings:



Foderingham 6/10 – Not a lot he could do with the goals really. Two others hit his bar/post. Did not really have too much else to do outside of this - few standard saves. Hard to know how to mark him as did not do much wrong but did not make any saves and 5 shots went past him!



Bogle 4/10 – I thought this was poorest he has been for some time and he has been one of our better players. Started well and had some good forward runs (one shot deflected wide) but he gives Hudson Odoi way too much time. Thought second half he was poor and nothing came off and then gave the same man way too much space for the third goal. He has to show him outside (granted Anel close too).



Osborn 4/10 – Too much space given on that side saw MGW send two crosses over unopposed – one in the first minute! Did a few ok things but struggled to offer much going forward and then second half they got down his side a fair bit too.



Ahmedhodzic 3/10 – First half did well and saw a few runs out of the back but he and others still poor as crosses came in (Wood unmarked first minute!). Second half he sort of lost his head and was wandering around and not keeping his shape. He then started to just dive in or not keep to a line with the defence. Then they score two goals with no challenge coming in and he was not able to help Bogle at all. The bookings were both ridiculous. His shrugging and body language continues to be that of someone who wants away and think it would suit all parties if that happens.



Trusty 4/10 – First half ok and won a few headers/tackles but again they have free chances (Wood x 2) and he seems unaware where his man is? Second half thought he was really poor – along with the rest of the defence as they just ran through. I watched him carefully and he never seems to win headers or impose himself and the striker comes out with the ball too easily. He just is a nothing sort of player that is not strong/good header of the ball but nor does he read the game or cut things out. He is a really poor player.



Robinson 5.5/10 – The best defender and he was only average really. Won a few headers and came out with it well when he could and kept it simple but again the whole defence then falls apart second half and as much as everyone goes in on Trusty/Anel (I have above), he is the captain and should see the defence is in a better line and shape but we have some going out and some staying – it’s all over the place.



Brooks 3/10 – Thought he looked like a startled rabbit/deer in headlights. His touch was poor, he looked to get rid whenever he had it and often backwards or sideways. His control often saw him lose it and then all second half kept looking at the bench and it was almost wanted to come off. Way off the standard we need at this level sadly. After his early promise, I think he has looked out of his depth since he has come back in and shown why he has not played. Hopefully he will come again.



Hamer 7.5/10 – Our best player today and by some way. Got on it, moved it forward, looked for passes and linked with the front two. Had a few efforts on goal and unlucky not to score. He was the main creative link and the only one who kept trying to force us forward and get on the ball. He was let down by many of the others today who could not finish or defend. Finishing the season really well and hopefully a promoted team does not look to sign him – I do not think they will.



Arblaster 6/10 – Not his best game today in comparison to what he has showed and I thought he was really careless with the ball a lot of the second half but he did continue to always look forward and get on the ball and try and pass it. He has this real skill of being where the ball is and picking it up and reading where it may drop. He started the game well and helped us control the midfield but after the break, I thought he overplayed if anything and too many times he was cut off or lost it and they broke and nearly scored a few times from his giveaways. As I say, he continued to try and look for positive passes/runs though and did not hide. He is not going to be top drawer every week of course and still looked one of the better players.



Brereton Diaz 6/10 – Thought his overall play, running and link work was more a 7.5 as he was a constant outlet and got into brilliant areas. Used it well and showed neat touches and passing but also was a threat. However, his choices when in front of goal were mostly poor. The penalty he won and converted but then he actually had 2 or 3 other good opportunities, much like the last few games and fluffed his lines taking too long or hitting a defender/the keeper. Still would love to have him around but cannot see it.



Archer 4/10 – Major disappointment again. Like BBD, he got into some good areas and his approach play/link work was positive and they both looked a threat but his composure and finishing was poor. He had 2 or 3 good chances. One he takes too long and is blocked, another ditto after clever skill to get away from Boly and then spooned another over. I thought 2nd half he sort of disappeared and right to get hooked. Felt he ended up going through the motions a bit – mind you he knows he is not here. If reports are right and that we essentially paid 4 million (if you take the fee we paid, that will come back when he goes back to Villa) for his loan – then this has been another waste of money. He has barely scored and not even been a regular due to form and injuries. Not a Premier League striker I am afraid and for all those saying he would be the one to give us a chance of staying up (course been tons of other issues) he has not really had anywhere near enough impact at all.



Subs -



McAtee 3/10 – Another that just seems to look disinterested. Came on and lost a few tackles. Had one run and cross but he looks like someone who will be glad to depart. A luxury player that has not worked out second time round.



Souza 4/10 – Came on, had a weak shot and won one tackle but also pointed at others and generally hid from the ball. He waved his arms around and told others what to do as he ambled around doing very little himself.





Manager: Wilder 4/10 – Will be frustrated that we basically should have been out of sight but then do not finish (tee to tee we were fine as he often says) and give us awful goals and then simply down tools again. We have nothing to change it on the bench so get he is hampered by personnel at this level but the complete lack of fight when we go behind does worry me. He is still incredibly bullish about next season and seems to feel he has a clear plan and already earmarked who is staying, going, and coming in. I am pleased he is still very enthusiastic but worry that in half a season we have not seen him get a side motivated or organised at all. His recent recruitment (BBD apart) has been appalling both this season and last time he was here – so concerning he will identify and get the right men in – he will not have much money at least – he often was better with less funds before! We will see what happens in the coming weeks and hopefully we see decisive action that his words seem to suggest will happen but I do worry without investment, how he can change round a sinking ship and one that I fear will slip into Championship mediocrity at best.





Forest- I did not even think Forest were that great. A good side would have put them away that first half. Like with Burnley, they had a bit of luck, stayed in the game and then were ruthless but these are two shocking sides, that any other season would have been done and dusted with their points tallies. They took their chances and will see today as an easy win but it was nowhere near that. They made it that towards the end but for 45 minutes, they were second best, as the manager admitted. They will stay up now and will chuck more money at it and probably break more rules. I have some sympathy for them as they are spending to try and compete and stay there and FFP and the rules around it are not really fit for purpose. However, having said that, they have still broken the rules they have signed up for and in some leagues/sports competitions, the likes of them and Everton would have simply been thrown out. Teams know they can overspend though and will risk even a points deduction as know the money and players they get means it is almost worth it. Not sure there is a proper deterrent to doing it. I do think they should just scrap it. If teams want to throw money they do not have and risk their future, then let them do it. Football has gone crazy now in terms of finances and these rules seem to be barely able to scrape the surface in terms of stopping this overspending all down the top league.





Opponent Man of the Match – Gibbs White did well in flashes with some good balls but did not see those runs we used to see at the Lane today – but clearly has been their best player and would not be shocked if someone like Newcastle or Spurs took him and he eventually ended up an England player. Hudson Odoi is someone who has come the other way, not getting enough chances at a top club, and dropped back but was their best player today and scored two great goals. The keeper Sels had a decent game – and made some good saves even if we should not have allowed him the opportunity to make them.



Opponent Weak link – Thought the defence was as bad as ours and we created as many clear chances – if not more. Boly looks clumsy but Montiel was slow and ponderous and obviously gave away the penalty.



Referee/Officials – No issues with the two yellows really for Anel. We barely put a tackle in till the end so no surprise there were no bookings for us till then – that is worrying in some ways and shows a complete lack of fight really. They had one – for the penalty. Outside of this, I felt the ref was good and was consistent in that he let a fair bit go (no issues if you stick to this and how you ref all game). In that sense the game was allowed to flow. I have to say the BBD push was not enough again (we have to be stronger). There was contact but there are hundreds like that in the box (granted the Chelsea one was disallowed last week) and it was not enough for me. I thought the referee was really good today and the fact he did not give lots of cheap fouls or ticky tacky stuff pleased me as allowed the game to flow and for an hour was a good game/contest till we sort of gave up again!



Crowd/Atmosphere – Seemed a lot less than 28,500 in. Big gaps on the sides of the Kop and the Upper Tier – guess they still count ST holders who do not attend but seemed a big drop off from normal and I would have suggested it was closer to 26 or 27 tops? Forest sold out and were noisy and supportive as you would expect when they won the game and gave their former players some stick – as we did. Not sure why we would boo Gibbs White – he was never our player and we never had any chance of signing him? He tried his guts out for us when he played for United – as a loan player and just cannot understand why we would boo him – he went back to Wolves who did not want him and Forest gave him a chance to play in the top flight. Strange behaviour to me but people can do what they want I suppose? Despite the chant, he is ten times the player McAtee is (a player who is also not ours but puts in a lot less effort than MGW ever did – as a comparison). The United fans were again with their team but as the game went away, it was more apathy than boos coming from the terraces – although Souza was booed on (did Archer get booed off too or was it just for Souza coming on?). By the end many had gone long before the end and it is just a meek acceptance of where we are at, that there is no anger towards the team, board, manager, or anyone. Just almost a shrug of acceptance. With Wednesday staying up, it completed a miserable day and season for the red and white half of the season. Just over a year ago, it looked like there would be two divisions between the sides but then the late goal in the play off semi and our complete mess of a summer meant we are now effectively below our city rivals (with the two-point deduction).

United have had 327 shots this season. Hamer has taken 42 and created another 59 through passes (that number is 15th in the PL). That's 31% of all shots down to him.

His defensive work is sub par but I'm genuinely confused as to why people don't think his attacking output will get him noticed. The promoted teams may look but also MGW, Eze, Oliver, Neto, Willian, Mbeumo, Mitoma, Enciso, Pedro, Bowen coukd all move this summer. All those players are given licence to attack and aren't tied down by 20% possession. Teams will see how much Hamer creates, take the defensive burden away and let him play.

 

[richblade]

Great report Deadbat - exactly as I see it from the South Stand ... I reckon about 25,000 was the attendance. WTF do they practice in training when they have a chance in front of goal !!! every game we seem to panic or not hit the target, hit the keeper etc ... frustrating as hell and depressing to watch.

 

[bakeblade]

United – Hard to know what to say anymore? Just read what I said last week and the week before. The bright spots are that we are actually looking a threat attacking wise and with better and cooler finishing, could and should have scored 4 or 5 goals in each of the last three games. However, we didn’t and then give up stupid goals to let teams back into it. We know second half that we will concede and then inevitably our heads drop and we concede more and it just becomes very predictable. We have seen some promise in the way we have moved it forward and Hamer and Arblaster continue to be positive and also the loan lads have made good runs or linked well (but not finished their dinner the last few weeks). The defensive fragility continues though and it is concerning that we have no structure or shape in how we set up to stop teams coming through us at will. To be fair, even though we could have scored 4 or 5, Forest could have scored 3 themselves (Wood missed two big chances).



At half time, same as Newcastle, I was happy and felt it was entertaining and we had played quite well though but the second half fade outs in terms of the fitness, mentality, and inability to keep passing the ball or doing the things that had served us well, is beyond alarming. We just fall apart. Teams get in front and we are done. Toast. The body language of most of the players is pathetic and they show what they are, gutless losers who are creating records all over the place. The way teams just play one pass and are in (to be fair we did the same to them today but did not have the class they had to finish chances) and a player just is one on one. Teams are not scoring clever, intricate or brilliant goals (granted some decent finishes from Hudson-Odoi). It is one channel ball and then bang, they are in and they score. It’s really down to poor individual play and decisions but also the lack of us having any proper structure in how we defend. We still should be able to attack and pass it forward without knowing if we lose it (Arblaster did a few times but tried to be positive) that a team would essentially be in on us at the other end. This is at 1-1 and 1-2 as well with half an hour left and not as if it is the last minute and we are just chucking the sink at them. It’s bizarre how we thing that is how we are going to win games.



For all that, the play between the two boxes, there was not much in the two teams until the last maybe 20 minutes when they just coasted to the win. We had as much good play, passing and creativity but simply could not bury really good chances and then when they get them, they finish as our defence is hopeless. The players continued to just almost accept goals going in and hammerings weekly. Watching a number when goals went in was interesting as the range of reactions veered from head down and look at the turf to pointing at others and trying to blame someone else. There is no individual or collective responsibility and why we must move a number on – wrongly we kept too many from last times disastrous relegation campaign. A big statement needs to be made from Wilder and I would transfer list/move on the likes of Trusty, Ahmedhodzic and Souza as soon as the season ends to try and change the culture. We have some shoots of light in Hamer, Arblaster and some we can maybe plug in still in Robinson, Bogle and McBurnie if he remains but the rest of the side will need completely rebuilding – both half a side of starters and another half a dozen competent player to compete/be on the bench. We will need to bring in at least 10-12 players in my opinion as an even larger number will surely depart (with Larouci, Holgate, McAtee, Brereton Diaz, Archer – loans back and maybe 7 or 8 others via transfers/free agency will move on).



I did not see us getting another point a few weeks ago and still don’t. I think we will be nearer 110 goals conceded than 100 now. That is beyond embarrassing. I get why v Forest and the professional integrity we had to play our ‘strongest team’ but now surely he had to take all the loans out -even if we play likes of Osula and Brewster, in the final few games. There is nothing to be gained at all in playing lads who will not be here? We may as well play some of the lads that will be here- even if they are not good enough!



It is incredibly depressing at the moment to keep turning up for games and knowing what will happen. I think that for most, they cannot wait till the season is done in a fortnight. It feels just a complete waste of time these last few weeks. Fair play those going to Everton – but I am just glad now I only have the one game left to endure! The best thing about the game was the pre/post-match pints with a group of us but it is sad that much of our United talk centres on how laughable we are.



Ratings:



Foderingham 6/10 – Not a lot he could do with the goals really. Two others hit his bar/post. Did not really have too much else to do outside of this - few standard saves. Hard to know how to mark him as did not do much wrong but did not make any saves and 5 shots went past him!



Bogle 4/10 – I thought this was poorest he has been for some time and he has been one of our better players. Started well and had some good forward runs (one shot deflected wide) but he gives Hudson Odoi way too much time. Thought second half he was poor and nothing came off and then gave the same man way too much space for the third goal. He has to show him outside (granted Anel close too).



Osborn 4/10 – Too much space given on that side saw MGW send two crosses over unopposed – one in the first minute! Did a few ok things but struggled to offer much going forward and then second half they got down his side a fair bit too.



Ahmedhodzic 3/10 – First half did well and saw a few runs out of the back but he and others still poor as crosses came in (Wood unmarked first minute!). Second half he sort of lost his head and was wandering around and not keeping his shape. He then started to just dive in or not keep to a line with the defence. Then they score two goals with no challenge coming in and he was not able to help Bogle at all. The bookings were both ridiculous. His shrugging and body language continues to be that of someone who wants away and think it would suit all parties if that happens.



Trusty 4/10 – First half ok and won a few headers/tackles but again they have free chances (Wood x 2) and he seems unaware where his man is? Second half thought he was really poor – along with the rest of the defence as they just ran through. I watched him carefully and he never seems to win headers or impose himself and the striker comes out with the ball too easily. He just is a nothing sort of player that is not strong/good header of the ball but nor does he read the game or cut things out. He is a really poor player.



Robinson 5.5/10 – The best defender and he was only average really. Won a few headers and came out with it well when he could and kept it simple but again the whole defence then falls apart second half and as much as everyone goes in on Trusty/Anel (I have above), he is the captain and should see the defence is in a better line and shape but we have some going out and some staying – it’s all over the place.



Brooks 3/10 – Thought he looked like a startled rabbit/deer in headlights. His touch was poor, he looked to get rid whenever he had it and often backwards or sideways. His control often saw him lose it and then all second half kept looking at the bench and it was almost wanted to come off. Way off the standard we need at this level sadly. After his early promise, I think he has looked out of his depth since he has come back in and shown why he has not played. Hopefully he will come again.



Hamer 7.5/10 – Our best player today and by some way. Got on it, moved it forward, looked for passes and linked with the front two. Had a few efforts on goal and unlucky not to score. He was the main creative link and the only one who kept trying to force us forward and get on the ball. He was let down by many of the others today who could not finish or defend. Finishing the season really well and hopefully a promoted team does not look to sign him – I do not think they will.



Arblaster 6/10 – Not his best game today in comparison to what he has showed and I thought he was really careless with the ball a lot of the second half but he did continue to always look forward and get on the ball and try and pass it. He has this real skill of being where the ball is and picking it up and reading where it may drop. He started the game well and helped us control the midfield but after the break, I thought he overplayed if anything and too many times he was cut off or lost it and they broke and nearly scored a few times from his giveaways. As I say, he continued to try and look for positive passes/runs though and did not hide. He is not going to be top drawer every week of course and still looked one of the better players.



Brereton Diaz 6/10 – Thought his overall play, running and link work was more a 7.5 as he was a constant outlet and got into brilliant areas. Used it well and showed neat touches and passing but also was a threat. However, his choices when in front of goal were mostly poor. The penalty he won and converted but then he actually had 2 or 3 other good opportunities, much like the last few games and fluffed his lines taking too long or hitting a defender/the keeper. Still would love to have him around but cannot see it.



Archer 4/10 – Major disappointment again. Like BBD, he got into some good areas and his approach play/link work was positive and they both looked a threat but his composure and finishing was poor. He had 2 or 3 good chances. One he takes too long and is blocked, another ditto after clever skill to get away from Boly and then spooned another over. I thought 2nd half he sort of disappeared and right to get hooked. Felt he ended up going through the motions a bit – mind you he knows he is not here. If reports are right and that we essentially paid 4 million (if you take the fee we paid, that will come back when he goes back to Villa) for his loan – then this has been another waste of money. He has barely scored and not even been a regular due to form and injuries. Not a Premier League striker I am afraid and for all those saying he would be the one to give us a chance of staying up (course been tons of other issues) he has not really had anywhere near enough impact at all.



Subs -



McAtee 3/10 – Another that just seems to look disinterested. Came on and lost a few tackles. Had one run and cross but he looks like someone who will be glad to depart. A luxury player that has not worked out second time round.



Souza 4/10 – Came on, had a weak shot and won one tackle but also pointed at others and generally hid from the ball. He waved his arms around and told others what to do as he ambled around doing very little himself.





Manager: Wilder 4/10 – Will be frustrated that we basically should have been out of sight but then do not finish (tee to tee we were fine as he often says) and give us awful goals and then simply down tools again. We have nothing to change it on the bench so get he is hampered by personnel at this level but the complete lack of fight when we go behind does worry me. He is still incredibly bullish about next season and seems to feel he has a clear plan and already earmarked who is staying, going, and coming in. I am pleased he is still very enthusiastic but worry that in half a season we have not seen him get a side motivated or organised at all. His recent recruitment (BBD apart) has been appalling both this season and last time he was here – so concerning he will identify and get the right men in – he will not have much money at least – he often was better with less funds before! We will see what happens in the coming weeks and hopefully we see decisive action that his words seem to suggest will happen but I do worry without investment, how he can change round a sinking ship and one that I fear will slip into Championship mediocrity at best.





Forest- I did not even think Forest were that great. A good side would have put them away that first half. Like with Burnley, they had a bit of luck, stayed in the game and then were ruthless but these are two shocking sides, that any other season would have been done and dusted with their points tallies. They took their chances and will see today as an easy win but it was nowhere near that. They made it that towards the end but for 45 minutes, they were second best, as the manager admitted. They will stay up now and will chuck more money at it and probably break more rules. I have some sympathy for them as they are spending to try and compete and stay there and FFP and the rules around it are not really fit for purpose. However, having said that, they have still broken the rules they have signed up for and in some leagues/sports competitions, the likes of them and Everton would have simply been thrown out. Teams know they can overspend though and will risk even a points deduction as know the money and players they get means it is almost worth it. Not sure there is a proper deterrent to doing it. I do think they should just scrap it. If teams want to throw money they do not have and risk their future, then let them do it. Football has gone crazy now in terms of finances and these rules seem to be barely able to scrape the surface in terms of stopping this overspending all down the top league.





Opponent Man of the Match – Gibbs White did well in flashes with some good balls but did not see those runs we used to see at the Lane today – but clearly has been their best player and would not be shocked if someone like Newcastle or Spurs took him and he eventually ended up an England player. Hudson Odoi is someone who has come the other way, not getting enough chances at a top club, and dropped back but was their best player today and scored two great goals. The keeper Sels had a decent game – and made some good saves even if we should not have allowed him the opportunity to make them.



Opponent Weak link – Thought the defence was as bad as ours and we created as many clear chances – if not more. Boly looks clumsy but Montiel was slow and ponderous and obviously gave away the penalty.



Referee/Officials – No issues with the two yellows really for Anel. We barely put a tackle in till the end so no surprise there were no bookings for us till then – that is worrying in some ways and shows a complete lack of fight really. They had one – for the penalty. Outside of this, I felt the ref was good and was consistent in that he let a fair bit go (no issues if you stick to this and how you ref all game). In that sense the game was allowed to flow. I have to say the BBD push was not enough again (we have to be stronger). There was contact but there are hundreds like that in the box (granted the Chelsea one was disallowed last week) and it was not enough for me. I thought the referee was really good today and the fact he did not give lots of cheap fouls or ticky tacky stuff pleased me as allowed the game to flow and for an hour was a good game/contest till we sort of gave up again!



Crowd/Atmosphere – Seemed a lot less than 28,500 in. Big gaps on the sides of the Kop and the Upper Tier – guess they still count ST holders who do not attend but seemed a big drop off from normal and I would have suggested it was closer to 26 or 27 tops? Forest sold out and were noisy and supportive as you would expect when they won the game and gave their former players some stick – as we did. Not sure why we would boo Gibbs White – he was never our player and we never had any chance of signing him? He tried his guts out for us when he played for United – as a loan player and just cannot understand why we would boo him – he went back to Wolves who did not want him and Forest gave him a chance to play in the top flight. Strange behaviour to me but people can do what they want I suppose? Despite the chant, he is ten times the player McAtee is (a player who is also not ours but puts in a lot less effort than MGW ever did – as a comparison). The United fans were again with their team but as the game went away, it was more apathy than boos coming from the terraces – although Souza was booed on (did Archer get booed off too or was it just for Souza coming on?). By the end many had gone long before the end and it is just a meek acceptance of where we are at, that there is no anger towards the team, board, manager, or anyone. Just almost a shrug of acceptance. With Wednesday staying up, it completed a miserable day and season for the red and white half of the season. Just over a year ago, it looked like there would be two divisions between the sides but then the late goal in the play off semi and our complete mess of a summer meant we are now effectively below our city rivals (with the two-point deduction).

I don't think we've got any chance of keeping Hamer. If the rumoured release clause on relegation (to counter the relegation pay decrease) is true, someone's going to get a really good player for a relatively cheap price.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Good report, slight misquote of Wilder though.

One of his stupid sayings with “fine margins” and “this football club” is “we were good tee to green”. You said “tee to tee”. Although we are a bit like a golfer who just hacks away on the tee and never ends up going anywhere so maybe you were right. If we were a golfer though we’d hit the ball backwards and smash some windows.

 

[Pintor75]

Great report Deadbat - exactly as I see it from the South Stand ... I reckon about 25,000 was the attendance. WTF do they practice in training when they have a chance in front of goal !!! every game we seem to panic or not hit the target, hit the keeper etc ... frustrating as hell and depressing to watch.

Makes you wonder what the coaches teach them, get Sharp in as attacking coach, can't do any worse than Lester

 

[Lane Ender]

Not just 3 easy scapegoats..4 if Grbic included...who must go....cunts like McBurnie and Brewster need offloading now not next fucking January. Take the decrepit old grandad with you as

United – Hard to know what to say anymore? Just read what I said last week and the week before. The bright spots are that we are actually looking a threat attacking wise and with better and cooler finishing, could and should have scored 4 or 5 goals in each of the last three games. However, we didn’t and then give up stupid goals to let teams back into it. We know second half that we will concede and then inevitably our heads drop and we concede more and it just becomes very predictable. We have seen some promise in the way we have moved it forward and Hamer and Arblaster continue to be positive and also the loan lads have made good runs or linked well (but not finished their dinner the last few weeks). The defensive fragility continues though and it is concerning that we have no structure or shape in how we set up to stop teams coming through us at will. To be fair, even though we could have scored 4 or 5, Forest could have scored 3 themselves (Wood missed two big chances).



At half time, same as Newcastle, I was happy and felt it was entertaining and we had played quite well though but the second half fade outs in terms of the fitness, mentality, and inability to keep passing the ball or doing the things that had served us well, is beyond alarming. We just fall apart. Teams get in front and we are done. Toast. The body language of most of the players is pathetic and they show what they are, gutless losers who are creating records all over the place. The way teams just play one pass and are in (to be fair we did the same to them today but did not have the class they had to finish chances) and a player just is one on one. Teams are not scoring clever, intricate or brilliant goals (granted some decent finishes from Hudson-Odoi). It is one channel ball and then bang, they are in and they score. It’s really down to poor individual play and decisions but also the lack of us having any proper structure in how we defend. We still should be able to attack and pass it forward without knowing if we lose it (Arblaster did a few times but tried to be positive) that a team would essentially be in on us at the other end. This is at 1-1 and 1-2 as well with half an hour left and not as if it is the last minute and we are just chucking the sink at them. It’s bizarre how we thing that is how we are going to win games.



For all that, the play between the two boxes, there was not much in the two teams until the last maybe 20 minutes when they just coasted to the win. We had as much good play, passing and creativity but simply could not bury really good chances and then when they get them, they finish as our defence is hopeless. The players continued to just almost accept goals going in and hammerings weekly. Watching a number when goals went in was interesting as the range of reactions veered from head down and look at the turf to pointing at others and trying to blame someone else. There is no individual or collective responsibility and why we must move a number on – wrongly we kept too many from last times disastrous relegation campaign. A big statement needs to be made from Wilder and I would transfer list/move on the likes of Trusty, Ahmedhodzic and Souza as soon as the season ends to try and change the culture. We have some shoots of light in Hamer, Arblaster and some we can maybe plug in still in Robinson, Bogle and McBurnie if he remains but the rest of the side will need completely rebuilding – both half a side of starters and another half a dozen competent player to compete/be on the bench. We will need to bring in at least 10-12 players in my opinion as an even larger number will surely depart (with Larouci, Holgate, McAtee, Brereton Diaz, Archer – loans back and maybe 7 or 8 others via transfers/free agency will move on).



I did not see us getting another point a few weeks ago and still don’t. I think we will be nearer 110 goals conceded than 100 now. That is beyond embarrassing. I get why v Forest and the professional integrity we had to play our ‘strongest team’ but now surely he had to take all the loans out -even if we play likes of Osula and Brewster, in the final few games. There is nothing to be gained at all in playing lads who will not be here? We may as well play some of the lads that will be here- even if they are not good enough!



It is incredibly depressing at the moment to keep turning up for games and knowing what will happen. I think that for most, they cannot wait till the season is done in a fortnight. It feels just a complete waste of time these last few weeks. Fair play those going to Everton – but I am just glad now I only have the one game left to endure! The best thing about the game was the pre/post-match pints with a group of us but it is sad that much of our United talk centres on how laughable we are.



Ratings:



Foderingham 6/10 – Not a lot he could do with the goals really. Two others hit his bar/post. Did not really have too much else to do outside of this - few standard saves. Hard to know how to mark him as did not do much wrong but did not make any saves and 5 shots went past him!



Bogle 4/10 – I thought this was poorest he has been for some time and he has been one of our better players. Started well and had some good forward runs (one shot deflected wide) but he gives Hudson Odoi way too much time. Thought second half he was poor and nothing came off and then gave the same man way too much space for the third goal. He has to show him outside (granted Anel close too).



Osborn 4/10 – Too much space given on that side saw MGW send two crosses over unopposed – one in the first minute! Did a few ok things but struggled to offer much going forward and then second half they got down his side a fair bit too.



Ahmedhodzic 3/10 – First half did well and saw a few runs out of the back but he and others still poor as crosses came in (Wood unmarked first minute!). Second half he sort of lost his head and was wandering around and not keeping his shape. He then started to just dive in or not keep to a line with the defence. Then they score two goals with no challenge coming in and he was not able to help Bogle at all. The bookings were both ridiculous. His shrugging and body language continues to be that of someone who wants away and think it would suit all parties if that happens.



Trusty 4/10 – First half ok and won a few headers/tackles but again they have free chances (Wood x 2) and he seems unaware where his man is? Second half thought he was really poor – along with the rest of the defence as they just ran through. I watched him carefully and he never seems to win headers or impose himself and the striker comes out with the ball too easily. He just is a nothing sort of player that is not strong/good header of the ball but nor does he read the game or cut things out. He is a really poor player.



Robinson 5.5/10 – The best defender and he was only average really. Won a few headers and came out with it well when he could and kept it simple but again the whole defence then falls apart second half and as much as everyone goes in on Trusty/Anel (I have above), he is the captain and should see the defence is in a better line and shape but we have some going out and some staying – it’s all over the place.



Brooks 3/10 – Thought he looked like a startled rabbit/deer in headlights. His touch was poor, he looked to get rid whenever he had it and often backwards or sideways. His control often saw him lose it and then all second half kept looking at the bench and it was almost wanted to come off. Way off the standard we need at this level sadly. After his early promise, I think he has looked out of his depth since he has come back in and shown why he has not played. Hopefully he will come again.



Hamer 7.5/10 – Our best player today and by some way. Got on it, moved it forward, looked for passes and linked with the front two. Had a few efforts on goal and unlucky not to score. He was the main creative link and the only one who kept trying to force us forward and get on the ball. He was let down by many of the others today who could not finish or defend. Finishing the season really well and hopefully a promoted team does not look to sign him – I do not think they will.



Arblaster 6/10 – Not his best game today in comparison to what he has showed and I thought he was really careless with the ball a lot of the second half but he did continue to always look forward and get on the ball and try and pass it. He has this real skill of being where the ball is and picking it up and reading where it may drop. He started the game well and helped us control the midfield but after the break, I thought he overplayed if anything and too many times he was cut off or lost it and they broke and nearly scored a few times from his giveaways. As I say, he continued to try and look for positive passes/runs though and did not hide. He is not going to be top drawer every week of course and still looked one of the better players.



Brereton Diaz 6/10 – Thought his overall play, running and link work was more a 7.5 as he was a constant outlet and got into brilliant areas. Used it well and showed neat touches and passing but also was a threat. However, his choices when in front of goal were mostly poor. The penalty he won and converted but then he actually had 2 or 3 other good opportunities, much like the last few games and fluffed his lines taking too long or hitting a defender/the keeper. Still would love to have him around but cannot see it.



Archer 4/10 – Major disappointment again. Like BBD, he got into some good areas and his approach play/link work was positive and they both looked a threat but his composure and finishing was poor. He had 2 or 3 good chances. One he takes too long and is blocked, another ditto after clever skill to get away from Boly and then spooned another over. I thought 2nd half he sort of disappeared and right to get hooked. Felt he ended up going through the motions a bit – mind you he knows he is not here. If reports are right and that we essentially paid 4 million (if you take the fee we paid, that will come back when he goes back to Villa) for his loan – then this has been another waste of money. He has barely scored and not even been a regular due to form and injuries. Not a Premier League striker I am afraid and for all those saying he would be the one to give us a chance of staying up (course been tons of other issues) he has not really had anywhere near enough impact at all.



Subs -



McAtee 3/10 – Another that just seems to look disinterested. Came on and lost a few tackles. Had one run and cross but he looks like someone who will be glad to depart. A luxury player that has not worked out second time round.



Souza 4/10 – Came on, had a weak shot and won one tackle but also pointed at others and generally hid from the ball. He waved his arms around and told others what to do as he ambled around doing very little himself.





Manager: Wilder 4/10 – Will be frustrated that we basically should have been out of sight but then do not finish (tee to tee we were fine as he often says) and give us awful goals and then simply down tools again. We have nothing to change it on the bench so get he is hampered by personnel at this level but the complete lack of fight when we go behind does worry me. He is still incredibly bullish about next season and seems to feel he has a clear plan and already earmarked who is staying, going, and coming in. I am pleased he is still very enthusiastic but worry that in half a season we have not seen him get a side motivated or organised at all. His recent recruitment (BBD apart) has been appalling both this season and last time he was here – so concerning he will identify and get the right men in – he will not have much money at least – he often was better with less funds before! We will see what happens in the coming weeks and hopefully we see decisive action that his words seem to suggest will happen but I do worry without investment, how he can change round a sinking ship and one that I fear will slip into Championship mediocrity at best.





Forest- I did not even think Forest were that great. A good side would have put them away that first half. Like with Burnley, they had a bit of luck, stayed in the game and then were ruthless but these are two shocking sides, that any other season would have been done and dusted with their points tallies. They took their chances and will see today as an easy win but it was nowhere near that. They made it that towards the end but for 45 minutes, they were second best, as the manager admitted. They will stay up now and will chuck more money at it and probably break more rules. I have some sympathy for them as they are spending to try and compete and stay there and FFP and the rules around it are not really fit for purpose. However, having said that, they have still broken the rules they have signed up for and in some leagues/sports competitions, the likes of them and Everton would have simply been thrown out. Teams know they can overspend though and will risk even a points deduction as know the money and players they get means it is almost worth it. Not sure there is a proper deterrent to doing it. I do think they should just scrap it. If teams want to throw money they do not have and risk their future, then let them do it. Football has gone crazy now in terms of finances and these rules seem to be barely able to scrape the surface in terms of stopping this overspending all down the top league.





Opponent Man of the Match – Gibbs White did well in flashes with some good balls but did not see those runs we used to see at the Lane today – but clearly has been their best player and would not be shocked if someone like Newcastle or Spurs took him and he eventually ended up an England player. Hudson Odoi is someone who has come the other way, not getting enough chances at a top club, and dropped back but was their best player today and scored two great goals. The keeper Sels had a decent game – and made some good saves even if we should not have allowed him the opportunity to make them.



Opponent Weak link – Thought the defence was as bad as ours and we created as many clear chances – if not more. Boly looks clumsy but Montiel was slow and ponderous and obviously gave away the penalty.



Referee/Officials – No issues with the two yellows really for Anel. We barely put a tackle in till the end so no surprise there were no bookings for us till then – that is worrying in some ways and shows a complete lack of fight really. They had one – for the penalty. Outside of this, I felt the ref was good and was consistent in that he let a fair bit go (no issues if you stick to this and how you ref all game). In that sense the game was allowed to flow. I have to say the BBD push was not enough again (we have to be stronger). There was contact but there are hundreds like that in the box (granted the Chelsea one was disallowed last week) and it was not enough for me. I thought the referee was really good today and the fact he did not give lots of cheap fouls or ticky tacky stuff pleased me as allowed the game to flow and for an hour was a good game/contest till we sort of gave up again!



Crowd/Atmosphere – Seemed a lot less than 28,500 in. Big gaps on the sides of the Kop and the Upper Tier – guess they still count ST holders who do not attend but seemed a big drop off from normal and I would have suggested it was closer to 26 or 27 tops? Forest sold out and were noisy and supportive as you would expect when they won the game and gave their former players some stick – as we did. Not sure why we would boo Gibbs White – he was never our player and we never had any chance of signing him? He tried his guts out for us when he played for United – as a loan player and just cannot understand why we would boo him – he went back to Wolves who did not want him and Forest gave him a chance to play in the top flight. Strange behaviour to me but people can do what they want I suppose? Despite the chant, he is ten times the player McAtee is (a player who is also not ours but puts in a lot less effort than MGW ever did – as a comparison). The United fans were again with their team but as the game went away, it was more apathy than boos coming from the terraces – although Souza was booed on (did Archer get booed off too or was it just for Souza coming on?). By the end many had gone long before the end and it is just a meek acceptance of where we are at, that there is no anger towards the team, board, manager, or anyone. Just almost a shrug of acceptance. With Wednesday staying up, it completed a miserable day and season for the red and white half of the season. Just over a year ago, it looked like there would be two divisions between the sides but then the late goal in the play off semi and our complete mess of a summer meant we are now effectively below our city rivals (with the two-point deduction).

Spot on as usual not long to go know pal

 

[Coolblade]

The observations from the stats remain similar to before

- Hamer (5 key passes, most accurate crosses) and Arblaster (most touches, second most key passes, most aerial duels won!) are stand outs and must be kept for next season at all costs.

- Brooks gets an honorable mention for highest pass completion (think DB bit harsh) and Ben BD had best overall scoring (bye bye Ben)

- Defensively all poor. Trusty and Robbo only made one successful tackle each. Anel committed two fouls and got carded for both (bye bye Anel).

 

[Deaneandagana]

Gibbs White - he was boo’d through envy - as was Sander.

 

[Keen Blade]

Gibbs White - he was boo’d through envy - as was Sander.

Yeh , I don't think the boos are directed at the players themselves.
I think they are the only way we can express our sadness that we have had such quality players and we are now unlikely to have anything like them in the foreseeable future.
I interpret the boos as criticism of the mismanagement of our club , leaving us in such a mess.

 

[Keen Blade]

How on earth was Trusty player of the season for Brum ?
More millions down the drain.

 

[JohnDenver]

How on earth was Trusty player of the season for Brum ?
More millions down the drain.

In a defensive and pretty bloody awful Championship team, you generally stand at the back in head the ball away.

The ask in the prem is to win 1v1s against infinitely better players with the ball on the deck and movement and pace he’s never seen before. Plus his teammates aren’t much better than him.

He’s been no better than the level he came from.