United 0 Wolves 2 - report

[Silent Blade]

Deadbat,

Hope you have seen the Football League Show to make you realise that the ref had got it horrendously wrong on the penalty decision when Leon Clake used his arms to push Collins down to the floor...........

 

[sheffielder]

Strange, isn't it? When McD left, United under Weir were a car crash. A footballer has a very short shelf life, and I don't think many will disagree he made the right choice.

However, when the 'legends' were introduced before the game, Deano - who left us for our second most-hated rivals - got a big cheer.

It's a funny old game...

You're comparing Macca to Brian Deane? I must have missed something

 

[bartman]

Any more?[/QUOTE]

Doyle 5.5/10 – Felt he was largely anonymous. His passing was often slow and behind players but mostly he was not in the game or on the ball. He did not get close to any of the key Wolves midfielders who were the stand out players with Edwards, McDonald and Jacobs whose movement and touch was very good.

Baxter 6/10 – Was busy early and linked a few times with Scougall and Murphy but found it hard to get on the ball against two giant centre backs. Played a delightful cross that no one got on the end of and got fouled quite a bit but he ended up wide left for a long period of the game. Second half had a decent free kick just wide but was not a threat and taken off. His touch was not great but you still felt if we had gone anything today it may have come through him.

I thought you were taking the mickey with these marks.DB. And you gave Scougall a '7'.

Doyle was our only midfielder to get close to their midfield. He won tackles ,tracked back and kept the ball.He was far from being 'largely anonymous'. He was our man of the match

Scougall and Coady looked tired and were poor,especially Scougall who continued his annoying trait of losing the ball in good attacking positions.

As for Baxter.....you really must have seen a different game to win and in my opinion,you have given him 3 marks too many

 

[Trigger Blade]

Can I just point out DB ,I don't want or expect Baxter to run round like a headless chicken ,those days have hopefully gone ,but his lack of effort today was quite unbelievable, we had Wolves pinned back in the corner in the first half ,and his lack of effort to win the ball was embarrassing and drew knowing looks from Brayford Flynn and Scougall. Also in the second half when he had switched with Murphy , he got the ball in the centre circle ,passed it to Brayford and walked towards the Wolves end ,by the time the ball was up there we had no attack in the box ,he was taken off soon after. If he is carrying a knock or virus fair enough ,if not I hope Clough lets him know.

The word you're looking for is lazy

 

[Zanzibar]

Oh we've still got a chance but I don't think we're nearly ready to step up to the Championship. Wolves are. They have the players, tactics and physique to look forward to next season.

I don't think it's a good thing to just limp over the line and then hope for the best with summer transfers, you need to 'boss' the division from the start. If you sneak over the line without the necessary players, you'll be in for a struggle.

Ask Wednesday.

Quite right.
I think Clough would be privately horrified if we got promotion.
We have to try of course but we are miles short of the championship going forward.
The flanks worry me immensly since Flynn and Murphy are looking increasingly impotent recently. Neither have burning pace either.

 

[LSF]

Here's my tenpenneth....
We were turned over by a stronger, more ruthless outfit who made their considerable physical advantage count. After the first 20 minutes I felt we were second best and always chasing the game. Had the first chance gone in (great save by Ikeme), the game would have taken a different course, but games turn on those sort of incidents and Wolves, fired by the previous draw and defeat, showed a determination to turn it round at a team on a crest of a wave.
Whilst we were always in it to a point, I never felt we were going to score and their breaks from defensive situations constantly stretched us. How we recover now is the key.

As far as DB's individual making goes....

Howard - One mistake and one dodgy kick out and he gets mauled by DB, this bloke is far and above George Long as a keeper and one of the prime reasons for our recent defensive showings. Wouldn't like to work for you if I'd made a mistake.

Doyle - Well I would say this wouldn't I........ He did his job once again and can hold his head up as someone who didn't capitulate yesterday when the going got tough. I guess you just don't like him like plenty of others and have been waiting to put the boot in.

Baxter - An enigma, so much about him is frustrating, but one knows he can turn a game on a tanner when he's in the mood. Yesterday he wasn't. Will Clough find a place for him in next season's set up is the big question.

Flynn - Another one of my 'pets' - Totally kept quiet by Golbourne yesterday and often found himself surrounded by three opponents, a testimony to his now perceived 'threat' from the opposition

Brayford - Now settling into what he really is, a pretty competent full back at this level, who makes mistakes and is human after all.

Scougall - Still love this lad but finding out that teams are now fully aware of his threat weapons and are dealing with it accordingly. He will flourish once again though.

Freeman - Thought he looked comfy at left back , never let us down yesterday and he could well turn out a really good Championship full back on what I've seen so far. Be happy to have him on board permanently.

Maguire & Collins - Given a tough time by the impressive Leon Clarke (wish we had him!). Clarke obviously told to track their forays into attacking territory, he did it well too and cut off one of our main threats. Other than that though I though these two did ok yesterday.

Whilst play offs aren't impossible yet, I just cant see us winning nearly every game to achieve this. My 'dreamer' mode hope's I'm wrong

 

[Rollerball]

First of all let me say a few weeks ago when all our players seemed to be firing on all cylinders I believe we would have took wolves, yeh they were better on the day but IMHO not that great, solid yes, did what they had to do definitely but and I think what is important is WE as a team played well below par not too badly in truth but all probably only playing at about 80% which against a well organised, decent team like wolves isn't good enough and it showed.
Plus points we really weren't spanked and sent to bed by arguably the best team in this league even when not playing well, freeman looks pretty decent fairly fast, composed and comfy, could have done with murph tracking back a little more but on the whole, even though both goals came from that side, I'm pretty happy with them, two centres Collins and maguire both less than at their best but by no means terrible apart from missing the clearance for the first goal, Howard was blaming them and sat right in line with the "shot" he has a case though he really should have took it easily himself so 6 of one half dozen of the other, clough should show that over and over, if that doesn't make those three wince it really should.
Onto brayford, not his best game but after a couple of games out , did seem a little off the pace and a little uncomfortable , Flynn lambasted by some on here tried tracking back to help but again not his best day in red and white, not too disappointed by both.
Onto what seems the most controversial trio, coady, scougal and Doyle, Doyle was the most effective defensively scougal I thought was the only one showing going forward, coady neither good or bad in either department but not again his best showing, much room for improvement to get back to how they were a few games ago, not to worried by yesterday's showing, just a bad day at the office I think.
Baxter to me is a bit of an enigma, we all know he can be the difference, but wolves defence nullified him well, still showed a few sparks but definitely looking jaded, little harsh ppl saying not interested IMHO just a combination of well marshalled and fatigue.
In closing yes a shit result but all in all not too bad performance wise against a very well organised confident team.
Not worried unless we have a lot more days where they all play below their best.
A little rotation may be in order for a couple of games.
Onwards and upwards blades

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

you had to admire some of the skill and running of the likes of McDonald

Yea, he even got over the half way line once.

 

[Deadbat]

Deadbat,

Hope you have seen the Football League Show to make you realise that the ref had got it horrendously wrong on the penalty decision when Leon Clake used his arms to push Collins down to the floor...........

Yes watched it. Still not convinced it was as stone wall as some made out. He went over the top of him and it was clumsy but refs would give 10 pens a game for pushing/grabbing in the box if he gave things like that. I agree it could have been given but equally can see why he did not give it too. It was similar to the one Maguire gave away at Walsall when many fans were saying it was very, very harsh. They ARE fouls but often don't tend to be given in the box but are given if happen outside the box.

 

[Deadbat]

Baxter has had better games but was still involved in all the decent chances/opportunities we had. He seems to be the new scape goat for many and forgetting what he has contributed in the run when he is playing in a very difficult position on his own having to field high balls with few balls into his feet. If we are just wanting someone to chase balls around or close defenders (as Clarke did well yesterday) he is never going to be that sort of player. If he is played just behind a striker and his performances are ordinary (as he was yesterday) I will be the first to criticise.

My point about Doyle remains for his so called decent performance that others saw (I did not; thought he was poor and I have defended him a lot -read my reports this season) he was meant to be covering/marking their best player Edwards - who scored one and got away quite nearly scored the other. He got away from Doyle the quite a bit all game I felt. Scougall got into the box and had our two best chances (albeit could have done better) and showed some lovely, neat foot work and body control in the first half. I thought Scougall was our stand out player first half but then faded after the break.

Still perplexed by the criticism of McDonald. He is streets above anything we have in midfield. I felt he rarely gave it away and controlled much of the game. He did not come over half way hardly as he did not have to as the two in front did all his running after he started the attacks. He did right to move on as now he is earning more money and will be playing at a higher level. It was a no brainer for him to move really.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Here's my tenpenneth....
We were turned over by a stronger, more ruthless outfit who made their considerable physical advantage count. After the first 20 minutes I felt we were second best and always chasing the game. Had the first chance gone in (great save by Ikeme), the game would have taken a different course, but games turn on those sort of incidents and Wolves, fired by the previous draw and defeat, showed a determination to turn it round at a team on a crest of a wave.
Whilst we were always in it to a point, I never felt we were going to score and their breaks from defensive situations constantly stretched us. How we recover now is the key.

As far as DB's individual making goes....

Howard - One mistake and one dodgy kick out and he gets mauled by DB, this bloke is far and above George Long as a keeper and one of the prime reasons for our recent defensive showings. Wouldn't like to work for you if I'd made a mistake.

Doyle - Well I would say this wouldn't I........ He did his job once again and can hold his head up as someone who didn't capitulate yesterday when the going got tough. I guess you just don't like him like plenty of others and have been waiting to put the boot in.

Baxter - An enigma, so much about him is frustrating, but one knows he can turn a game on a tanner when he's in the mood. Yesterday he wasn't. Will Clough find a place for him in next season's set up is the big question.

Flynn - Another one of my 'pets' - Totally kept quiet by Golbourne yesterday and often found himself surrounded by three opponents, a testimony to his now perceived 'threat' from the opposition

Brayford - Now settling into what he really is, a pretty competent full back at this level, who makes mistakes and is human after all.



I'm sure Deadbat can fight his own battles LSF but aren't you being a bit harsh on him re Howard and Doyle. Don't always agree with everything he writes but really look forward to his match reports and I think he says it how it is. Doyle has had a lot of stick since coming to the club but lately seems to won over a number of detractors, doesn't absolve him from the odd critical comment though does it ?.

Scougall - Still love this lad but finding out that teams are now fully aware of his threat weapons and are dealing with it accordingly. He will flourish once again though.

Freeman - Thought he looked comfy at left back , never let us down yesterday and he could well turn out a really good Championship full back on what I've seen so far. Be happy to have him on board permanently.

Maguire & Collins - Given a tough time by the impressive Leon Clarke (wish we had him!). Clarke obviously told to track their forays into attacking territory, he did it well too and cut off one of our main threats. Other than that though I though these two did ok yesterday.

Whilst play offs aren't impossible yet, I just cant see us winning nearly every game to achieve this. My 'dreamer' mode hope's I'm wrong

 

[LSF]

"I'm sure Deadbat can fight his own battles LSF but aren't you being a bit harsh on him re Howard and Doyle. Don't always agree with everything he writes but really look forward to his match reports and I think he says it how it is. Doyle has had a lot of stick since coming to the club but lately seems to won over a number of detractors, doesn't absolve him from the odd critical comment though does it ?."
No Crucial, I don't think 'harsh' is the appropriate word here. DB does a great job for ex pats with his precise reports and they are obviously greatly appreciated. However, by putting his opinions of a game up here, he leaves himself open to other others countering that opinion if they strongly disagree.
Surely the people who can't get to the game would want other views on performance of individuals otherwise DB would be influencing the whole of SUFC ex pat community on who is/was crap and who isn't.
I know he accepts this happily and always comes back to debate differing opinions sensibly and with clarity.
I thought he was harsh on Howard, who, despite being at fault for the goal and making one hash of a clearance, was generally sound. He's been outstanding for me since his re-introduction to the team and to judge him as returning to his former standards (which I thought were good actually) was unfair imo.
Again with Doyle, DB went to lengths to justify his criticism and marking, but again, I thought MD held his recent standards up more than most on Saturday.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

"I'm sure Deadbat can fight his own battles LSF but aren't you being a bit harsh on him re Howard and Doyle. Don't always agree with everything he writes but really look forward to his match reports and I think he says it how it is. Doyle has had a lot of stick since coming to the club but lately seems to won over a number of detractors, doesn't absolve him from the odd critical comment though does it ?."
No Crucial, I don't think 'harsh' is the appropriate word here. DB does a great job for ex pats with his precise reports and they are obviously greatly appreciated. However, by putting his opinions of a game up here, he leaves himself open to other others countering that opinion if they strongly disagree.
Surely the people who can't get to the game would want other views on performance of individuals otherwise DB would be influencing the whole of SUFC ex pat community on who is/was crap and who isn't.
I know he accepts this happily and always comes back to debate differing opinions sensibly and with clarity.
I thought he was harsh on Howard, who, despite being at fault for the goal and making one hash of a clearance, was generally sound. He's been outstanding for me since his re-introduction to the team and to judge him as returning to his former standards (which I thought were good actually) was unfair imo.
Again with Doyle, DB went to lengths to justify his criticism and marking, but again, I thought MD held his recent standards up more than most on Saturday.

Fair enough LSF I always think that Deadbat is fair with his comments but you and others have every right to a counter-opinion and I suppose he does leave himself open to be shot at times. Your right though he does a great job unlike the bland reports of the likes of Shields who puts a 7 at the side of players names no matter how they've performed.

 

[sitwell]

Deadbats reports serve a lot of purposes ,2 mainly. They are brilliant for people who cant get to the games ,and they stimulate debate about the football ,and to be fair to Deadbat he will fight his corner and even change his mind sometimes. I think he does a great job.

 

[Bladesway]

As one who reads his reports game by game I value both his report and the counter of those who think otherwise. Joins the picture up so please don't stop.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Deadbats reports serve a lot of purposes ,2 mainly. They are brilliant for people who cant get to the games ,and they stimulate debate about the football ,and to be fair to Deadbat he will fight his corner and even change his mind sometimes. I think he does a great job.

^^^^^^^^ What he says - I think he does a great job ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Silent Blade]

Deadbats reports serve a lot of purposes ,2 mainly. They are brilliant for people who cant get to the games ,and they stimulate debate about the football ,and to be fair to Deadbat he will fight his corner and even change his mind sometimes. I think he does a great job.

He hasnt really changed his mind about that blatant penalty

 

[Deadbat]

He hasnt really changed his mind about that blatant penalty

No, I would be hypocritical if I went back and said it was a penalty. I felt at times it may have been given but also can see why ref played on. Collins was rode all over (ooo, errr) but also made a back for Clarke before he went over the top of him. Would have been a foul anywhere else on the pitch but alas in the box you often have to do more. If it had been the ref from the La Liga El Classico then we would have got both!

I can see why some thought it should have been given but again you would be seeing around 10 pens a game if such were given in my opinion.

I think some would have given it but many would not also.

 

[Deadbat]

Cheers for the comments btw.

Certainly do not think I am always right and at times have to say I may call things wrong on players etc. I have been one of the staunchest defenders of Doyle/Porter with some heavy criticism to be fair over recent weeks/months.

As my reports intend to do; they have at least stimulated discussion.

The Doyle discussion we may never agree with for Saturdays game. The reality is from reading reports/marks on other forums is probably somewhere in between; eg not as bad as I said and maybe not quite as good as others. I stand by he was marking the best player on the pitch (not saying that it is entirely his fault that Edwards p;ayed well) and completely lost him for the key second goal. there were other occasions he lost him. Maybe he was better in possession than I gave credit for but I felt generally we were so slow to move it forward and was envious of the two lads for them that played against Coady and Doyle (not McDonald who played a different role) who got on the ball and went forward with speed and skill).

As for the Howard comments, I would say he looked very ropey in both cup games and also at the New York this season. He was ok (nothing spectacular) in the early part of last season but whenever he has played since as I have said he has been poor so his excellent standards he set recently surprised me and was against what he has shown. At fault for goals v Burton and Rotherham and missed numerous crosses in such games. His handling was also poor.

since he came back he has been very good to excellent. I just feel Saturday the few things he did were poor. His kicking was awful throughout and he nearly put them in twice through his kicks and then on the first goal it was awful and the sort of keeping you would not be happy with on the park. Having watched it back I have blamed defenders/even Doyle for not picking up Edwards who ran through which is harsh. It was a decent cross but hardly whipped in or with much power and he just missed it. He did not have much to do but what he did he did not do very well with. Maybe mark was a little harsh but it was such a bad mistake and as I say in other bits of general play was not as convincing as he has been. Still one poor game amongst 10-12 excellent ones so not going to be overly critical.

What concerns me about some of the differences in opinion from Saturday is that is the least I have had to drink (1 pint) before a game all season! In short, I need to drink more.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Cheers for the comments btw.

Certainly do not think I am always right and at times have to say I may call things wrong on players etc. I have been one of the staunchest defenders of Doyle/Porter with some heavy criticism to be fair over recent weeks/months.

As my reports intend to do; they have at least stimulated discussion.

The Doyle discussion we may never agree with for Saturdays game. The reality is from reading reports/marks on other forums is probably somewhere in between; eg not as bad as I said and maybe not quite as good as others. I stand by he was marking the best player on the pitch (not saying that it is entirely his fault that Edwards p;ayed well) and completely lost him for the key second goal. there were other occasions he lost him. Maybe he was better in possession than I gave credit for but I felt generally we were so slow to move it forward and was envious of the two lads for them that played against Coady and Doyle (not McDonald who played a different role) who got on the ball and went forward with speed and skill).



What concerns me about some of the differences in opinion from Saturday is that is the least I have had to drink (1 pint) before a game all season! In short, I need to drink more.

Stick to your guns Deadbat, thought your ratings were accurate. Thought most of our players had mediocre games, with probably Maguire MoM. Surprised to see anyone taking much notice of semi-critical ratings in this game. Doyle's effective breaking up play wasn't shown on BP. He's a ball winning midfielder, but like the team in general, struggled to get close to opponents and showed his lack of pace on some occasions.

McDonald dictated play from deep from the same position and the difference in terms of passing was obvious. McDonald played a holding midfield playmaker role, and with plenty of willing runners in front of him his job wasn't to take players on and get into the box. He was there to keep it simple, use his composure and balance, but then he also showed that he's excellent at playing creative forward passes when the runs are there, and thus they ran through us with superior pace.

I read that McDonald was man marked in his two last games, while we chose to stand off him. It meant we dropped a bit too deep at times first half and we struggled to get close enough to players to actually make tackles. This meant we rarely won the ball in good areas and Scougall and Coady couldn't find space like they have in recent weeks.

Regarding our attacking play we probably showed a weakness in our ability to break down a winning, counter attacking opposition. Murphy very often had two opponents to beat and was forced to cut inside without making forward progress. Flynn was really poor for the second game running, and it looks like a mistake that we haven't gone for back up, different option in the wide right role. Our full backs tried, but struggled to make telling contributions. With our wide play not working and the pattern of the game not allowing us to counter attack we struggled and showed that we need to improve that side of our game.

Second half, Wolves were happy to drop deeper and play on the counter, and we couldn't find a way through them. Porter won a few headers when he came on, and it may have been more effective for us to change to 4-4-2 (a Porter/Miller combination may have worked?) after they scored and gone a bit more direct. Clough did tweak a few things, made some subs and swapped a few players around, but we probably needed a more radical change.

 

[Darthblade]

One of those weeks Deadbat ,disagree with your marks massively ,harsh on Howard ,just one mistake ,maybe his previous games have set a standard. How Scougall Coady ,Murphy and unbelievably Baxter ?? get higher marks than Doyle is beyond me. Doyle was our best player today easily for me and Baxter by far the worse. Macdonald who flattered to impress for me was given so much space by Baxter and Scougall didnt do a lot with it , they had a lot of possession across the back 4 but not much further up where Doyle was working.

Can't agree with you here. Doyle was anonymous and struggled to even get close to the player in possession, let alone make a tackle. Wolves bossed the midfield, of that there is no doubt and Doyle is the weak link in our side, as he has been all season. Replacing him in the Summer is a MUST if we are to even consider a promotion push.
UTB & FTP

 

[Wards]

Man marking McDonald was a point I picked up on at the time and felt we should at least have deployed a man (maybe Coady) to get closer to him. If we'd have cut off his supply they would've been forced to go long as I felt they didn't offer much by way of out and out creativity.

 

[LSF]

Doyle is the weak link in our side, as he has been all season.
UTB & FTP

You'd think Nigel would have sussed that out by now eh?