United 0 Walsall 1 - report

[Karaoke Blade]

I was never a Paul Madeley fan,but I'd have him any day over Basham

He's getting on a bit now, but I agree.

 

[diplomat]

EEL's fault to begin with but I thought Moor could have been more assertive and come out faster to welly it.

I sit directly behind the goal and Moore was definitely slow to come out so for that reason I wouldn't have given him 7/10.

A disappointing evening, but I saw nothing wrong with either disallowed goal.

I was at the game but admittedly called him an imbecile after I'd watched it back on the telly box. There are two defenders at fault before the keeper. If he'd have come for it he'd have been in the way of those who should be dealing with it. There is a possible argument that being slightly more fleet of foot could have seen him block it but it's not his fault.

 

[I should coco]

There is a possible argument that being slightly more fleet of foot could have seen him block it but it's not his fault.

Simon Tracey would have been out of the box and kicked him up in the air before you'd blinked.

Battle of Bramall Lane # 2 anyone?

 

[I should coco]

Battle of Bramall Lane # 2 anyone?

And I still maintain at 1.40 into the video that he gets the ball:

 

[brownie4583]

I think CW will have to recruit a goal scorer to play alongside Billy in January.I would have been tempted to bring Done on at half time or early in the 2nd half for Clarke last night.
We are enjoying a lot of possession and playing well but we have got to turn that into goals to make the top 2.

 

[super_pig]

No! If Billy wasn't a Blade and he'd scored a dozen goals he'd get away with murder.

It's the fact that he IS a Blade that he gets crucified as soon as he stops scoring, whilst after almost half a season, the rest of our 'strikers' who have managed just a couple of goals between them all season sit in the corner just glad to be under the fans' radar.

Sharp isn't the problem even though he scores in fits and starts. It's finding another striker who can at least contribute a reasonable total towards the cause. Anybody who scores half as many goals as Sharp in the second half will be a massive boost, but who will that be?

fair play
i was f@cking pissed off when i posted that. we need to find a blend
i still think chapman should start though in some capacity..
and i still think lafferty is crap
ymmv

 

[Woodwardfan]

Wilder has recruited two goalscorers to play alongside Billy Sharp - Clarke and Lavery.

We can't afford too many poor signings so we may well have to make do.

Wilson, Brown, Hussey, Clarke, Lafferty and Lavery are not shaping up that well.

O'Connell deserves the benefit of the doubt perhaps. So does Chapman. I think Clarke and Lavery will come through as well.

EEL, Fleck, Moore, Duffy, Wright, have all been very good.

Overall the signings have been positive but the jury is out. I think it's fair to say that.

 

[sitwell]

Wilder has recruited two goalscorers to play alongside Billy Sharp - Clarke and Lavery.

We can't afford too many poor signings so we may well have to make do.

Wilson, Brown, Hussey, Clarke, Lafferty and Lavery are not shaping up that well.

O'Connell deserves the benefit of the doubt perhaps. So does Chapman. I think Clarke and Lavery will come through as well.

EEL, Fleck, Moore, Duffy, Wright, have all been very good.

Overall the signings have been positive but the jury is out. I think it's fair to say that.

OConnell is the best defender at the club.

 

[Woodwardfan]

OConnell is the best defender at the club.

Oh, my mistake.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Oh, my mistake.

My mistake apparently Sitwell ( in your opinion), but the bigger point I made was that our manager's recruitment has been good and bad and overall that "the jury is out". Any views on the bigger pont Sitwell? I did comment on 12 signings. I am sorry if I got one wrong but maybe 11 right?

A simplistic perspective at this point in time and that doesn't mean any player cannot come good of course. However, at this point in time it affects us.

 

[sitwell]

No manager ever in history has made only good signings ,Chris Wilders are better than most.

 

[Woodwardfan]

No manager ever in history has made only good signings ,Chris Wilders are better than most.

Important to get majority right:

Lavery 3 year contract, Clarke 3 years. Wilson 2. Hussey 2. Brown just months. Lafferty season long loan.

 

[sitwell]

Yes hes doing a shit job ,wish we still had Adkins.

 

[Bergen Blade]

We know what Oztumer can do, he's their only real threat, and we allowed him to run forward and pick his pass. But it still should've been dealt with better, piss poor for three centre halves to get beaten like that.

EEL's fault to begin with but I thought Moor could have been more assertive and come out faster to welly it.

.

I thought Basham was just as much to blame for the goal. He should have got round and helped rather than just ease off and pass on responsibility.
.

Agree with blades78 that Basham was in the best position to intervene. Oztumer has shrugged off the pressure from our midfielders and is not closed down at all as he looks up.

At this point the rule for defenders says:

• Do not push up
• Be wary of balls in behind

I do think EEL is sloppy. He looks to be on his heels and not anticipating a ball over the top, nor seeing if anything is happening behind him.

But Basham is even better positioned to watch Oztumer being not closed down, and Bakayoko's run, and that is the main mistake for me.



Another angle shows that Basham should have realised the danger, dropped deeper and thus ruined the space in behind for Bakayoko:

 

[Woodwardfan]

Yes hes doing a shit job ,wish we still had Adkins.

He's not doing a "shit job" we've got top goalscorer(s?) in Europe haven't we?

I think he'll try to ship out two or three players in January and I hope the new Head Scout will be more selective in recruitment ( he wasn't here last summer). It was a rush job last summer and it is a good job there were no takers for Freeman and Coutts who were transfer listed. That's luck of the draw and some managers are lucky and some aren't.

I'm delighted with Wilder, love his candour and his pragmatism and his Bladeyness. Can't recall such refreshing media interviews and communications in all my time watching United. I hope he's here for years.

 

[bornandbred]

Great report DB.

I think we could do with Colin Morris to show the wide men how to get to the byline and THEN AND ONLY THEN cross the ball.Defenders hate such crosses, with those sent from 6 to 10 yards beforehand easy meat all night long as has been shown in the last 3 home games.

 

[Roygbiv]

Important to get majority right:

Lavery 3 year contract, Clarke 3 years. Wilson 2. Hussey 2. Brown just months. Lafferty season long loan.

I think Lavery has shown enough with Wednesday in the league above to assume he will eventually be a decent accusation. Way too early to write him off when he hasn't even started a game

Lafferty has been a big part of our 15 game unbeaten run but has seen his standards slip of late. He's obviously been a good accusation overall though

Brown was brought in purely as back up whilst Wilson was out and his wages will be low

Wilson is decent back up at this level and actually started the season better than O Connell

Clarke and Hussey have so far been very poor and they are the only two that I so far would say have been out and out failurs. Still hoping both come good though

 

[Woodwardfan]

Great report DB.

I think we could do with Colin Morris to show the wide men how to get to the byline and THEN AND ONLY THEN cross the ball.Defenders hate such crosses, with those sent from 6 to 10 yards beforehand easy meat all night long as has been shown in the last 3 home games.

Wing backs tend to be Jacks of all Trades. Wingers more specialists (in theory).

This is exactly why I'd play Chapman at wing back in Lafferty's place. We have a strong Back 3 and Coutts and Fleck playing 'withdrawn' and in position to cover.

By all means play the first hour of away games differently but home games let's go for it.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Agree with blades78 that Basham was in the best position to intervene. Oztumer has shrugged off the pressure from our midfielders and is not closed down at all as he looks up.

At this point the rule for defenders says:

• Do not push up
• Be wary of balls in behind

I do think EEL is sloppy. He looks to be on his heels and not anticipating a ball over the top, nor seeing if anything is happening behind him.

But Basham is even better positioned to watch Oztumer being not closed down, and Bakayoko's run, and that is the main mistake for me.

View attachment 20932

Another angle shows that Basham should have realised the danger, dropped deeper and thus ruined the space in behind for Bakayoko:


View attachment 20933

Don't like that first shot. 4 opposition midfield in acres of space, no pressure or 'press' as we now call it, far from it.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Don't like that first shot. 4 opposition midfield in acres of space, no pressure or 'press' as we now call it, far from it.

This was a couple of seconds before:




So we did stop his run and made him turn backwards by surrounding him. We couldn't get close enough to make a challenge though, so we dropped off. Oztumer is a clever and skilful player, so that'll happen. But the defenders have to read that and get their positioning right when the midfielders drop off.

 

[Woodwardfan]

This was a couple of seconds before:

View attachment 20936


So we did stop his run and made him turn backwards by surrounding him. We couldn't get close enough to make a challenge though, so we dropped off. Oztumer is a clever and skilful player, so that'll happen. But the defenders have to read that and get their positioning right when the midfielders drop off.

Why would the midfielders drop off from that situation? It's so much easier to play a weighted through ball in acres of space. What purpose is served by dropping off, they've nobody else upfield no doubt.

 

[super_pig]

you can't play a high line 'and' drop off. page one rule one.. defending.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Why would the midfielders drop off from that situation? It's so much easier to play a weighted through ball in acres of space. What purpose is served by dropping off, they've nobody else upfield no doubt.

Our attack broke down just outside their area. Oztumer got the ball and raced forward. At that moment the most important thing was trying to stop him from having a free run into our half. Coutts and Lafferty managed to do that, before leaving it to the backtracking Duffy to try and win the ball, as Oztumer turned backwards. Duffy's attempt to win the ball wasn't successful, as Oztumer skipped away from him with a clever turn.

At that point, before anyone else could start closing him down, Oztumer had a little time on the ball. That's when the centre halves have to do their job and make sure they're not vulnerable to a through ball. Instead they go asleep.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Our attack broke down just outside their area. Oztumer got the ball and raced forward. At that moment the most important thing was trying to stop him from having a free run into our half. Coutts and Lafferty managed to do that, before leaving it to the backtracking Duffy to try and win the ball, as Oztumer turned backwards. Duffy's attempt to win the ball wasn't successful, as Oztumer skipped away from him with a clever turn.

At that point, before anyone else could start closing him down, Oztumer had a little time on the ball. That's whe halves have to do their job and make sure they're not vulnerable to a through ball. Instead they go asleep.

Why would the two midfielders drop off? There's space there to cut down and a ball to block. There's no other opposition player than the scorer anywhere near our half is there? It was 3 to 1 in that area wasn't it and 3 to one plus our keeper up top?

I'm not saying the defenders are not to blame as well, maybe even the keeper too who made it easy for the toe-ender, but 3 midfield players letting the opponent play a ball like that, come on. 7 players to 2 and we don't stop the supply or the strike.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Why would the two midfielders drop off? There's space there to cut down and a ball to block. There's no other opposition player than the scorer anywhere near our half is there? It was 3 to 1 in that area wasn't it and 3 to one plus our keeper up top?

I'm not saying the defenders are not to blame as well, maybe even the keeper too who made it easy for the toe-ender, but 3 midfield players letting the opponent play a ball like that, come on. 7 players to 2 and we don't stop the supply or the strike.

Duffy tried, but couldn't win the ball on that occasion. Coutts had already made a backtracking sprint you wouldn't have seen under previous managers. Him diving in could have left a big gap in midfield behind him, and he shouldn't be expected to fully know what's going on behind him in that situation. Lafferty had a runner down our left to focus on.

We're trying to play a pressing game, but there will always be some occasions where we'll have to accept an opposition player will have a second or two on the ball, certainly in his own half. These occasions don't have to be dangerous if the defence is switched on.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Duffy tried, but couldn't win the ball on that occasion. Coutts had already made a backtracking sprint you wouldn't have seen under previous managers. Him diving in could have left a big gap in midfield behind him, and he shouldn't be expected to fully know what's going on behind him in that situation. Lafferty had a runner down our left to focus on.

We're trying to play a pressing game, but there will always be some occasions where we'll have to accept an opposition player will have a second or two on the ball, certainly in his own half. These occasions don't have to be dangerous if the defence is switched on.

Good fun, always interesting. Shame others don't join in. Night Bergen.

 

[Karaoke Blade]

By the way, have the match ratings function been suspended or can we only give our marks when we win?
The reason I ask is that I'm getting to the age where I can only remember a match with any real clarity within a day or so.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Important to get majority right:

Lavery 3 year contract, Clarke 3 years. Wilson 2. Hussey 2. Brown just months. Lafferty season long loan.

I think Wilson is a cheap as chips squad player signing and has looked good enough to occupy that role. Wright will also be a cheap signing.



I think Moore, O’Connell, EEL, Fleck and Duffy represent very good business. Rejuvinating Coutts and Freeman has also been like having two good quality signings. I also think Chapman looks promising.


Lavery and Clarke’s fitness issues make it hard to judge them at this stage. I’d say Lafferty has been OK, not really good or bad. Hussey has been a disappointment. Brown barely qualifies as a short term emergency option who will hopefully never need to start a game for us and will surely be gone in January.


Overall, I’d say that’s a pretty good ratio of good-bad signings when you think this is the club that in one summer brought in Higdon, Wallace, JCR, McNulty, Butler, McEveley, Alcock, Porter (after releasing him) etc.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I’ve missed the analytical posts from Bergen Blade this season. I mostly agree with Bergen’s position here with the following little notes.


1. Had it been a lesser player than Oztumer on the ball, I think one of the midfielders might have closed down to try to win it back with more urgency but didn’t for fear of being skinned and opening up a situation they could exploit.


2. I note your comments re Bash and EEL and can see where you are coming from. But another issue for me in that situation is that neither is a natural sweeper. As you say, Basham is perhaps better placed to see the danger but, the line-up placed EEL as the sweeper in the system we were playing. The problem for me is that both want to press and attack the ball and perhaps don’t have the concentration and positional awareness for that sweeping up role. That’s where we missed Jake Wright. Constantly unspectacular but so reliable in those situations at not getting caught out in the wrong position. I hope the likes of O Connell and EEL learn from him because physically, they have the potential to be better as they are big strong lads but neither has that level of awareness yet. For some, it never comes. For these lads, it could be the final piece of the puzzle in terms of becoming very good defenders.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think Wilson is a cheap as chips squad player signing and has looked good enough to occupy that role. Wright will also be a cheap signing.



I think Moore, O’Connell, EEL, Fleck and Duffy represent very good business. Rejuvinating Coutts and Freeman has also been like having two good quality signings. I also think Chapman looks promising.


Lavery and Clarke’s fitness issues make it hard to judge them at this stage. I’d say Lafferty has been OK, not really good or bad. Hussey has been a disappointment. Brown barely qualifies as a short term emergency option who will hopefully never need to start a game for us and will surely be gone in January.


Overall, I’d say that’s a pretty good ratio of good-bad signings when you think this is the club that in one summer brought in Higdon, Wallace, JCR, McNulty, Butler, McEveley, Alcock, Porter (after releasing him) etc.

I'm a big Wilder fan Dane but my comments are intended to be objective. Below are quotes of my earlier posts on this thread:

Wilder has recruited two goalscorers to play alongside Billy Sharp - Clarke and Lavery.

We can't afford too many poor signings so we may well have to make do.

Wilson, Brown, Hussey, Clarke, Lafferty and Lavery are not shaping up that well.

O'Connell deserves the benefit of the doubt perhaps. So does Chapman. I think Clarke and Lavery will come through as well.

EEL, Fleck, Moore, Duffy, Wright, have all been very good.

Overall the signings have been positive but the jury is out. I think it's fair to say that.

He's not doing a "shit job" we've got top goalscorer(s?) in Europe haven't we?

I think he'll try to ship out two or three players in January and I hope the new Head Scout will be more selective in recruitment ( he wasn't here last summer). It was a rush job last summer and it is a good job there were no takers for Freeman and Coutts who were transfer listed. That's luck of the draw and some managers are lucky and some aren't.

I'm delighted with Wilder, love his candour and his pragmatism and his Bladeyness. Can't recall such refreshing media interviews and communications in all my time watching United. I hope he's here for years.

Much the same as your comments as it happens.