Undisclosed Fees

[robbiez666]

If football really wants to clean up its act then they need to promote transparency by banning undisclosed fees. How can fans judge how well their club is run if there's no way of knowing if it's living within its means or not?

 

[SotonBlade]

Quite happy with other clubs not knowing how much we’re bringing in if we’re then going to go out and use the money

 

[Champagneblade]

Why stop there? Make it like baseball and publish the individual wages. Would probably prevent agents from hoodwinking someone.

 

[ThatJa]

This would open the biggest can of worms on existence.......

 

[SW12 to S12 to S18]

Good, I like a can of worms being opened.

 

[jt64]

Quite happy with other clubs not knowing how much we’re bringing in if we’re then going to go out and use the money

The "other clubs" will know how much the fee was, or near as damnit. Word gets around

 

[jt64]

Why stop there? Make it like baseball and publish the individual wages. Would probably prevent agents from hoodwinking someone.

It is only because of the existence of agents that players are not hoodwinking themselves.

 

[robbiez666]

This would open the biggest can of worms on existence.......

But given the level of outright cheating that goes on in football the game probably needs it.

 

[robbiez666]

Why stop there? Make it like baseball and publish the individual wages. Would probably prevent agents from hoodwinking someone.

I'd love that but in terms of being able to know how well a club is being run we can already see the total wage. I can see the privacy arguments but it would be better if everything was made public.

 

[Balham]

This would open the biggest can of worms on existence.......

Why? As an example, clubs are quite happy to announce the terms of the deals they make.

Here’s Barcelona confirming that Alex Valle moved to Como for €6m:

Como 1907 exercise buy out clause for Àlex Valle

The cost of the operation is 6 million euros

www.fcbarcelona.com

 

[Greystones Blade]

It is only because of the existence of agents that players are not hoodwinking themselves.

Maybe agents fees should be paid by the players rather than a combination of the selling and buying clubs? Does it work that way in some other countries?

 

[Nick Jansky]

Maybe agents fees should be paid by the players rather than a combination of the selling and buying clubs? Does it work that way in some other countries?

Players and clubs both pay different elements of agent fees. I’ve had many arguments with HMRC over how they are apportioned.

 

[Tom Bott]

The "other clubs" will know how much the fee was, or near as damnit. Word gets around

They all know that Cannon was signed for £ 4 million.

Because they've read it on here.

Or was it £ 10 million rising to £ 13 million?

Must check the latest poll results.

The biggest question to me is how much have we paid to the pigeon scarer.
It's only right that we should know.

 

[jt64]

Maybe agents fees should be paid by the players rather than a combination of the selling and buying clubs? Does it work that way in some other countries?

If I am an agent who will not be paid, say, one million by the club directly, I simply say my client has instructed me to request whatever wages we would otherwise have agreed on, except a higher amount so they get one million extra (post tax) over the course of the contract. Client is happy, I am happy, club pays more employers NI.

 

[jt64]

They all know that Cannon was signed for £ 4 million.

Because they've read it on here.

Or was it £ 10 million rising to £ 13 million?

Must check the latest poll results.

The biggest question to me is how much have we paid to the pigeon scarer.
It's only right that we should know.

My point is that they have better sources of information than X. If I am an agent of a player negotiating a move for a client to S2, do you not think I have some sort of contact that might indicate how big a financial cannon (no pun intended) SUFC have to fire?

 

[Houston_Blade]

The financial statements of the football club tell you what you need to know about the finances of the football club, they don’t need to pander anymore to the fans to give them deal specifics for many reasons.

Imagine negotiating with Ben Mee today and he finds out we’ve just got £15m for Hamer, our negotiating position disappears immediately.

 

[robbiez666]

The financial statements of the football club tell you what you need to know about the finances of the football club, they don’t need to pander anymore to the fans to give them deal specifics for many reasons.

Imagine negotiating with Ben Mee today and he finds out we’ve just got £15m for Hamer, our negotiating position disappears immediately.

Players are much more likely to know transfer fees, but that's a really odd example.

 

[Tom Bott]

This thread reminds me of the days when the fans used to demand that Wilder tell us which team was going to play, 3 days before a match.

Because the fans deserve to know, and what harm could it possibly do.

The annual accounts show how much loss the club makes each year and hence how much the owners need to chip in (invest) to balance the books.

They don't show how much wealth, if any, the owners have, or more importantly how much they are prepared to loose.

Look at Stoke City, Norwich and The Wendy for owners who have stopped injecting massive amounts of cash into their clubs.

Would the Wendy fans be any more enlightened if they knew the full contract details of every player?
No, they just expect him to keep gambling £10/15 million of his money every year for their entertainment.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

It's one of the things I like about the NHL. Fans know what the salary cap is and they know how much each player is on. Fans then know how much is left so they know what movement in and out is likely.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

If football really wants to clean up its act then they need to promote transparency by banning undisclosed fees. How can fans judge how well their club is run if there's no way of knowing if it's living within its means or not?

Aren't the transfer fee's received generally captured within the accounts, so it's only a case of waiting for them to come out?
I don't see why it matters, and fans don't really care, they're just bothered about the total outlay and continual ongoing transfer spend.

 

[robbiez666]

Aren't the transfer fee's received generally captured within the accounts, so it's only a case of waiting for them to come out?
I don't see why it matters, and fans don't really care, they're just bothered about the total outlay and continual ongoing transfer spend.

The accounts follow a year later though and the way installments are captured makes it difficult to keep track of how a club is being run.

I want transparency, not hidden transfer fees, agents fees etc and then fans are able to hold owners to account. Look at the Tom Cannon fee. This is being used by several factions to support their viewpoints and because it's not public record then this speculation continues.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The accounts follow a year later though and the way installments are captured makes it difficult to keep track of how a club is being run.

I want transparency, not hidden transfer fees, agents fees etc and then fans are able to hold owners to account. Look at the Tom Cannon fee. This is being used by several factions to support their viewpoints and because it's not public record then this speculation continues.

You want to know the inner workings of a business. Go and ask another business near where you live how much they pay their staff and how much they paid for their assets and see what they tell you.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

The accounts follow a year later though and the way installments are captured makes it difficult to keep track of how a club is being run.

I want transparency, not hidden transfer fees, agents fees etc and then fans are able to hold owners to account. Look at the Tom Cannon fee. This is being used by several factions to support their viewpoints and because it's not public record then this speculation continues.

I'd suggest the published figures are a way more accurate reflection of what is being spent where than a reported transfer fee that is paid over several years and has potential adds ons and performance clauses.
You can see what's coming in, and what's going out and if it's balancing or if debt is being loaded on the club or money being taken out.

 

[Tickhill Blade]

If I am an agent who will not be paid, say, one million by the club directly, I simply say my client has instructed me to request whatever wages we would otherwise have agreed on, except a higher amount so they get one million extra (post tax) over the course of the contract. Client is happy, I am happy, club pays more employers NI.

You may be right that the overall cost would be higher, but that would be the right way to do things wouldn't it? It would remove the conflict of interest where the agent is a third party in negotiations, and mean that in effect the more the player earns, the more the agent earns, aligning incentives.

I wonder if a proportion of these massive fees that agents get paid by clubs make it back to the players later on in some other way. Probably involving shell companies and the Virgin Islands or somewhere

 

[Rochdaleblade]

If football really wants to clean up its act then they need to promote transparency by banning undisclosed fees. How can fans judge how well their club is run if there's no way of knowing if it's living within its means or not?

You mean like in published annual accounts?

 

[Sheffsteel]

If football really wants to clean up its act then they need to promote transparency by banning undisclosed fees. How can fans judge how well their club is run if there's no way of knowing if it's living within its means or not?

With respect which fans have ever been bothered about how well their clubs are run?
If I told you we are currently one of the best run clubs in the Championship would the US owners receive any credit? No….none what so ever.

Even performances don’t matter so much these days….all fans care about is results on the pitch.

 

[robbiez666]

With respect which fans have ever been bothered about how well their clubs are run?
If I told you we are currently one of the best run clubs in the Championship would the US owners receive any credit? No….none what so ever.

Even performances don’t matter so much these days….all fans care about is results on the pitch.

Not all fans

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'd suggest the published figures are a way more accurate reflection of what is being spent where than a reported transfer fee that is paid over several years and has potential adds ons and performance clauses.
You can see what's coming in, and what's going out and if it's balancing or if debt is being loaded on the club or money being taken out.

While the last accounts, for example, list arrivals and departures during the season (plus the same for post balance sheet event transactions) there are no monetary breakdowns. For the 2024 accounts that figures shows additions to intangible assets of £52.5m (which includes capitalised element of agents fees) and a Contingent Liabilities note showing that up to £11.5m could become payable to other clubs depending on certain events detailed in player contracts. At 30/06/24 this was deemed “not probable” and has not been charged in the accounts for that year.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

While the last accounts, for example, list arrivals and departures during the season (plus the same for post balance sheet event transactions) there are no monetary breakdowns. For the 2024 accounts that figures shows additions to intangible assets of £52.5m (which includes capitalised element of agents fees) and a Contingent Liabilities note showing that up to £11.5m could become payable to other clubs depending on certain events detailed in player contracts. At 30/06/24 this was deemed “not probable” and has not been charged in the accounts for that year.

So that’s a clearer breakdown, at least for me.
I don’t need to know x player cost x but what we paid in totals and what it cost for the whole deals.
Ings will be touted as a free transfer but will probably be one of our most expensive additions so far this close season.

 

[Swinton Blade]

Doesn't matter if Undisclosed fees are used or not whether you think a club is being run well or not.