Under 21s v Cardiff tomorrow at the lane.

[Nick Jansky]

I respectfully disagree some of our youth go out on loan and really only arblaster ( so far) and jebbo really shone. The level is dramatically lower than most men's football

You can add Neal & Boyes to that list.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

You can add Neal & Boyes to that list.

Neal can't get into the stevenage side at the moment. Granted it's harder to get into a side going well but i think we would be wanting players who look too good for league one level if we are in the premier league or pushing for autos in the championship

Yer alright

He has featured in 11 of Derby's 12 league matches since joining on transfer deadline day and has found the net five times in all competitions

Over 16 league one games he averaged half an hour and scored twice. I think he has potential but let's not paint that as a huge success

 

[wavy-blade]

Neal can't get into the stevenage side at the moment. Granted it's harder to get into a side going well but i think we would be wanting players who look too good for league one level if we are in the premier league or pushing for autos in the championship


Over 16 league one games he averaged half an hour and scored twice. I think he has potential but let's not paint that as a huge success

We called him back they wanted to keep him , hes a young lad , what do you want a Maradona performance ffs , he was doing well !

We should have left him there !

 

[Berkshire Blade]

We called him back they wanted to keep him , hes a young lad , what do you want a Maradona performance ffs , he was doing well !

We should have left him there !

He was banging them in for fun in the 21s. The level is massively lower. That's my point. If Marsh does well at Doncaster considering they are rock bottom of the football league that will be massive but in reality I am expecting it to be more of a learning experience showing how much more he needs to do than a showcase!

 

[Nick Jansky]

Neal can't get into the stevenage side at the moment. Granted it's harder to get into a side going well but i think we would be wanting players who look too good for league one level if we are in the premier league or pushing for autos in the championship

Neal looked too good for L2 last season. At the moment he is learning what Steve Evans wants from someone in his position. Once he does I’d back him to shine. Evans certainly thinks he will.

Boyes has been on a constantly upward trajectory, interrupted by the injury he picked up at FRG.

Very few players, anywhere, go from academy football to being EPL ready. The average age of debutants in the top 5 European leagues is 21.7.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Neal looked too good for L2 last season. At the moment he is learning what Steve Evans wants from someone in his position. Once he does I’d back him to shine. Evans certainly thinks he will.

Boyes has been on a constantly upward trajectory, interrupted by the injury he picked up at FRG.

Very few players, anywhere, go from academy football to being EPL ready. The average age of debutants in the top 5 European leagues is 21.7.

And those two are now above average age playing and not dominating league one. We have all seen young players in the championship and lower who were very obviously going places by that age. It's not to say they won't have good careers but the stats show the vast majority don't make it at a decent level. It's incredibly hard to do so and anyone saying the side today could give a division 2 ( assuming that's league two) side a game is massively overestimating imo.

 

[Digs blade]

They weren't missing from the under 21s squad, they aren't in the under 21s squad, they're either part of the first team squad or on loan and therefore part of another clubs squad.

Just because they're eligible doesn't mean they're part of that squad.

Cardiff were missing alot of players who are part of their u21 squad currently due to injuries and internationals. Cardiff also have players who are on loan or in their first team squad who are eligible for their u21s but those aren't classed as "missing" today's game.

If you still don't understand the difference I'll just assume you're either a troll or an idiot.

You’ve made 5-6 posts here trying to undermine our victory. What on earth is wrong with you.

I don’t give a flying fuck who or how many were missing for Cardiff, I only know I enjoyed a superb performance by our young lads today.

We have some outstanding players playing today plus plenty who weren’t snd we’ve absolutely blown them away .
As a fellow blade why don’t you enjoy that without trying to over-analyse

 

[Nick Jansky]

And those two are now above average age playing and not dominating league one. We have all seen young players in the championship and lower who were very obviously going places by that age. It's not to say they won't have good careers but the stats show the vast majority don't make it at a decent level. It's incredibly hard to do so and anyone saying the side today could give a division 2 ( assuming that's league two) side a game is massively overestimating imo.

They are both close to the average age. And the average age varies from position to position. It is also an average - players develop at different rates.

Of course, very few of our academy players will make it at the top level. But unfortunately we have some fans who seem to think that if they haven’t made it into the 1st team at 19/20 then they should be written off as not good enough. Which is nonsense. Even at 21 players still have bags of development left in them, and position is also a factor.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

They are both close to the average age. And the average age varies from position to position. It is also an average - players develop at different rates.

Of course, very few of our academy players will make it at the top level. But unfortunately we have some fans who seem to think that if they haven’t made it into the 1st team at 19/20 then they should be written off as not good enough. Which is nonsense. Even at 21 players still have bags of development left in them, and position is also a factor.

I wouldn't write any of them off but it starts to become unlikely and more likely they will be moved on.

Of players who came through our academy and didn't break into the side and were sold on for millions how many are at championship or above? Regan Slater is apparently doing well at Hull and George Long has spent quite a while making a career of it but other than some of the bigger success stories it just shows how bloody hard it is!

This isn't a criticism of anyone in the set up now. It just how tough it is to make it through the ranks and expectations should be set accordingly

 

[Nick Jansky]

I wouldn't write any of them off but it starts to become unlikely and more likely they will be moved on.

Of players who came through our academy and didn't break into the side and were sold on for millions how many are at championship or above? Regan Slater is apparently doing well at Hull and George Long has spent quite a while making a career of it but other than some of the bigger success stories it just shows how bloody hard it is!

This isn't a criticism of anyone in the set up now. It just how tough it is to make it through the ranks and expectations should be set accordingly

Also Ben Whiteman is having a very decent career.

But the academy has upped its game (from a already good level) since it became a finishing school for cast offs from Cat A academies so I think the success rate (Championship & above) is set to go higher.

 

[JT89]

You’ve made 5-6 posts here trying to undermine our victory. What on earth is wrong with you.

I don’t give a flying fuck who or how many were missing for Cardiff, I only know I enjoyed a superb performance by our young lads today.

We have some outstanding players playing today plus plenty who weren’t snd we’ve absolutely blown them away .
As a fellow blade why don’t you enjoy that without trying to over-analyse

I was putting it into perspective after some people made ridiculous claims such as saying today's u21 side would be competitive in league 2. People are clearly not understanding the difference in levels, yes we won comfortably today, but against a Cardiff side who were extremely young & inexperienced even by PDL standards.

Some people seem to get very carried away with the u21s reasons without understanding the level they're at.

 

[BalticBlade]

I respectfully disagree some of our youth go out on loan and really only arblaster ( so far) and jebbo really shone. The level is dramatically lower than most men's football

Does anyone else hate the phrase "men's football", or is it just me?

 

[Digs blade]

I was putting it into perspective after some people made ridiculous claims such as saying today's u21 side would be competitive in league 2. People are clearly not understanding the difference in levels, yes we won comfortably today, but against a Cardiff side who were extremely young & inexperienced even by PDL standards.

Some people seem to get very carried away with the u21s reasons without understanding the level they're at.

Fair enough, I can’t say I know the Cardiff players well enough to know their age or experience but I’d hazard a guess that most of ours were still in their teens as well yet the difference in quality was immense.

I know how difficult it can be to have a successful career but I’d imagine our percentage of acadamy players making some kind of career out of the game would be high. Whether that is with us or elsewhere probably depends on where our first team are at the time of them breaking through

 

[Balham Blade]

They are both close to the average age. And the average age varies from position to position. It is also an average - players develop at different rates.

Of course, very few of our academy players will make it at the top level. But unfortunately we have some fans who seem to think that if they haven’t made it into the 1st team at 19/20 then they should be written off as not good enough. Which is nonsense. Even at 21 players still have bags of development left in them, and position is also a factor.

Matt Lowton didn't make his full league debut until he was nearly 21. He went on to have a very good career. For ever Kyle Walker making his debut at 18 and tearing it up there's 5 or 10 Lowtons grafting away.

I think it was Ball_Sup (Phil) who said that it's more difficult for us to bring young players through and take the risk inherent with giving them a chance when our seasons are almost entirely spent challenging for something, be that for promotion or against relegation. That increases the pressure on everyone at the club compared to a team which is happily esconced in midtable in its division (hello, Crystal Palace) and can afford a little more patience with younger players.

Back to Harry Boyes: he's following a similar trajectory to Norrington-Davies, albeit with loans at the top of League One rather than the bottom of the Championship. RND didn't make his United debut until he was 22.

Fair enough, I can’t say I know the Cardiff players well enough to know their age or experience but I’d hazard a guess that most of ours were still in their teens as well yet the difference in quality was immense.

United's team had four in their early 20s including Buyabu who was 20 five weeks ago; the majority were 18/19.
Faxon (18), Seriki (21), Buyabu (20, just), Easton (18) (Drake (18)), Sachdev (18) (Waldron (17)), Gomis (21), Slimane (22) (Hampson (18)), Staniland (19), Hackford (19), Macedo (19), Smith (19) (Aston (16/17))

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

They weren't missing from the under 21s squad, they aren't in the under 21s squad, they're either part of the first team squad or on loan and therefore part of another clubs squad.

Just because they're eligible doesn't mean they're part of that squad.

Cardiff were missing alot of players who are part of their u21 squad currently due to injuries and internationals. Cardiff also have players who are on loan or in their first team squad who are eligible for their u21s but those aren't classed as "missing" today's game.

If you still don't understand the difference I'll just assume you're either a troll or an idiot.

Not a troll just stating a fact. I like banter and different opinions but these are facts.

So if the 14 mentioned weren't out on loan/with the first team they wouldn't have played vs Cardiff yesterday? I think you'll find they would have.

The whole point of this discussion is both sides are missing players for various reasons and ours is a bigger list that would've all played. Fact.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Matt Lowton didn't make his full league debut until he was nearly 21. He went on to have a very good career. For ever Kyle Walker making his debut at 18 and tearing it up there's 5 or 10 Lowtons grafting away.

I think it was Ball_Sup (Phil) who said that it's more difficult for us to bring young players through and take the risk inherent with giving them a chance when our seasons are almost entirely spent challenging for something, be that for promotion or against relegation. That increases the pressure on everyone at the club compared to a team which is happily esconced in midtable in its division (hello, Crystal Palace) and can afford a little more patience with younger players.

Back to Harry Boyes: he's following a similar trajectory to Norrington-Davies, albeit with loans at the top of League One rather than the bottom of the Championship. RND didn't make his United debut until he was 22.



United's team had four in their early 20s including Buyabu who was 20 five weeks ago; the majority were 18/19.
Faxon (18), Seriki (21), Buyabu (20, just), Easton (18) (Drake (18)), Sachdev (18) (Waldron (17)), Gomis (21), Slimane (22) (Hampson (18)), Staniland (19), Hackford (19), Macedo (19), Smith (19) (Aston (16/17))

Some great points there.

To add to it, an average debutant age of 21.7 means that there will, of course, be a spread. Excluding outliers I would suggest that will be somewhere between 19-24 for the majority.

Which makes all of those who have already written off Jebbison & Osula (and Traore) look a bit ridiculous.

 

[Balham Blade]

Some great points there.

To add to it, an average debutant age of 21.7 means that there will, of course, be a spread. Excluding outliers I would suggest that will be somewhere between 19-24 for the majority.

Which makes all of those who have already written off Jebbison & Osula (and Traore) look a bit ridiculous.

Our team's top 5 league (EPL, German Bundesliga, French L1, Spanish LL, Italian SA) debut age averages at 22.1 but if you take out the outlier (Foderingham) it's coincidentally 21.7.

1. Davies yet to play top flight, is 31
2. Baldock 26 (United v Bournemouth, 10/8/19)
3. Lowe 23 (United v Fulham, 18/10/20)
4. Fleck 28 (United v Bournemouth, 10/8/19)
5. Trusty yet to play top flight, is 25
6. Basham 20 (Bolton v Sunderland, 29/11/08)
7. Brewster 20 (United v Fulham, 18/10/20)
8. Hamer 26 (United v Forest, 18/8/23 (played at 19 in the Eredivisie))
9. McBurnie 23 (United v Bournemouth, 10/8/19)
10. Archer 19 (Villa v Man U, 25/9/21)
11. Traoré 20 (United v Palace, 12/8/23)
12. Egan 26 (United v Bournemouth, 10/8/19)
13. not used
14. Thomas 19 (Leicester v United 16/7/20)
15. Ahmedhodzic 24 (United v Palace, 12/8/23)
16. Norwood 28 (United v Bournemouth, 10/8/19)
17. Coulibaly yet to play top flight, is 22
18. Foderingham 32 (United v Palace, 12/8/23)
19. Robinson 16 (Liverpool v Hull, 9/5/10)
20. Bogle 20 (United v Brighton, 20/12/20)
21. Souza 23 (Espanyol v Celta Vigo, 13/8/22)
22. Davies 17 (Everton v Southampton, 16/4/16)
23. Osborn 25 (United v Chelsea, 31/8/21)
24. not used
25. Slimane 22 (United v Palace, 12/8/23)
26. not used
27. Larouci 20 (Troyes v Nantes, 3/10/21)
28. McAtee 19 (Man City v Everton, 21/11/21)
29. not used
30. not used
31. not used
32. Osula 20 (United v Palace, 12/8/23)
33. Norrington-Davies yet to play top flight, is 24
34. not used
35. Brooks 19 (United v Palace, 12/8/23)
36. Jebbison 17 (United v Everton, 8/5/21)
37. Amissah yet to play top flight, is 22
38. Seriki yet to play top flight, is 20
39. Sachdev yet to play top flight, is 18
40. Buyabu yet to play top flight, is 20 (just!)
41. Marsh yet to play top flight, is 19

 

[Digs blade]

Matt Lowton didn't make his full league debut until he was nearly 21. He went on to have a very good career. For ever Kyle Walker making his debut at 18 and tearing it up there's 5 or 10 Lowtons grafting away.

I think it was Ball_Sup (Phil) who said that it's more difficult for us to bring young players through and take the risk inherent with giving them a chance when our seasons are almost entirely spent challenging for something, be that for promotion or against relegation. That increases the pressure on everyone at the club compared to a team which is happily esconced in midtable in its division (hello, Crystal Palace) and can afford a little more patience with younger players.

Back to Harry Boyes: he's following a similar trajectory to Norrington-Davies, albeit with loans at the top of League One rather than the bottom of the Championship. RND didn't make his United debut until he was 22.



United's team had four in their early 20s including Buyabu who was 20 five weeks ago; the majority were 18/19.
Faxon (18), Seriki (21), Buyabu (20, just), Easton (18) (Drake (18)), Sachdev (18) (Waldron (17)), Gomis (21), Slimane (22) (Hampson (18)), Staniland (19), Hackford (19), Macedo (19), Smith (19) (Aston (16/17))

Thanks for confirming, so it can be argued that our side was quite a young one then for u21 level

 

[I should coco]

Does anyone else hate the phrase "men's football", or is it just me?

Just you.

I think it makes a clear differentiation from 'youth football', but then I'm not very woke.

Do you have an issue with it?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Does anyone else hate the phrase "men's football", or is it just me?

I could use the no age limit football label if you wish