Two Team Cities & Home Attendances

[alcoblade]

Don't think Sheffield's combined attendance is that good compared to Manchester, Liverpool and even Glasgow.

I know what you're going to say about league position and success etc but we'd still be miles behind whether we were much better or them much worse.

Cities which are effectively thrice or more larger conurbations than Sheffield, in all other measures than those defined by lines on a map.

Add that to the huge out of town support those teams get, amd the dearth of success in our city, and I think Sheffield support is quite unique.

 

[LS16Blade]

Good post up to this last bit which is deluded nonsense.

Context is crucial. The whole sentence is:

What's more, I will say, without any fear of contradiction (not least because no other club of comparable size or larger would ever allow themselves to take 6 years to get out of the 3rd division) that there is not another club in the country that would pull an average gate of 21,892 in its sixth successive season in the 3rd Division.

Some may well hold the opinion that it is "nonsense", but I am comfortable that these carefully chosen words will never be contradicted in fact.

 

[blade too long]

so keef your insistant that had man utd only won one league cup in the last 80 years theyd still get 76000 now

personally think that is beyond nonsense

every huge club now if infested by glory hunters
the clubs with the biggest gates will always be the succesful ones

had man utd only had 5 seasons in the top flight in the past 45 years like weve had doubt very much theyd be getting 21000 in their 10th season in league 2

to claim otherwise is utter nonsense, theyd be only getting big gates v bury and rochdale

 

[SW12 to S12 to S18]

We don't have "plastics", "Irish" or any of the others you're on about because we are not big enough. Never have been, never will be. The same reason that Blackburn Rovers have never been a big draw and why Leicester will never need a bigger stadium despite being successful. Even Chelsea don't need a bigger ground, only for Abramovich's ego because nobody really gives a fuck about them.

It's totally different in Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow. They're on a different level to us. We don't have the potential to be like them, the numbers don't exist for us. If we were in the Champions League and they were in Division 3, it would be the same. Always was the same, always will be.

I think that's rubbish. What are you basing your argument on?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Leeds, West Ham and Millwall have huge catchment areas beyond their boundaries if you factor in headbangers.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

so keef your insistant that had man utd only won one league cup in the last 80 years theyd still get 76000 now

personally think that is beyond nonsense

every huge club now if infested by glory hunters
the clubs with the biggest gates will always be the succesful ones

had man utd only had 5 seasons in the top flight in the past 45 years like weve had doubt very much theyd be getting 21000 in their 10th season in league 2

to claim otherwise is utter nonsense, theyd be only getting big gates v bury and rochdale

Ok.

 

[Dkc]

Cities which are effectively thrice or more larger conurbations than Sheffield, in all other measures than those defined by lines on a map.
.

Hard to do a comparison with Greater Manchester. Although it is far bigger, it also has many more FL clubs - seven or eight compared to just three in the Sheffield metro / urban area. I wouldn't say Merseyside is 3 x bigger than Sheffield metro in terms of population.

One thing to praise with regards to Sheffield football crowds is that Sheffielders have a lower disposibe income than others. I'm surprised that our crowds have held up so well and it must be said the pigs too given the recent fan-fleecing.

 

[alcoblade]

Hard to do a comparison with Greater Manchester. Although it is far bigger, it also has many more FL clubs - seven or eight compared to just three in the Sheffield metro / urban area. I wouldn't say Merseyside is 3 x bigger than Sheffield metro in terms of population.

One thing to praise with regards to Sheffield football crowds is that Sheffielders have a lower disposibe income than others. I'm surprised that our crowds have held up so well and it must be said the pigs too given the recent fan-fleecing.

I was slightly blasé with the number, but I'll try to dig an article out that shows how much the population figure, based on boundaries, give a false impression about Sheffield's real effective size. And it also surrounded by other football clubs, unlike Liverpool, though not unlike greater Manchester.

 

[grafikhaus]

The main disappointment for me is during the 70's and our last premiership visit we could have buried the pigs for good. Each time we were so far ahead of them it just needed that extra nudge from the board to put them to bed for good. We fucked up on both occasions and the pigs recovered. We could have been out of sight.

...and I'm sure the pigs would say the same - especially in the last couple of years. Thankfully, they blew it.

Considering we go to Wembley relatively frequently for a club of our standing (little novelty value) and never win (no glory), I fully agree.

If we made the cup final, demand would be up towards 40k, but we wouldn't get that many tickets.

As others have said, a Wembley appearance is no indicator of fan base. Especially for a first trip to the 'new' Wembley, day-trippers will spend the entire match in their jester hats gawping at the roof. Like Wendy did v. Hull. In April this year, Coventry took 43,000 to Wembley for the final of the Giveafuck Trophy against Oxford.

 

[rustyoldlondonblade]

And north Wales

used to be a student in liverpool for 6 years in the 80s - love the- went back last year for a long w/e, l'pool were at home - a substantial part of trip was a sentimental revisit of the city's great old pubs - every one had norwegians in it over for the game - was astonished, they weren't there in the 80's

 

[grafikhaus]

used to be a student in liverpool for 6 years in the 80s - love the- went back last year for a long w/e, l'pool were at home - a substantial part of trip was a sentimental revisit of the city's great old pubs - every one had norwegians in it over for the game - was astonished, they weren't there in the 80's

There's a large market for ferry trips from Norway and Denmark. Bloke goes to see Newcastle or Sunderland, missus goes shopping. Considering that most things are x3 the cost in Scandinavia, the trip can pay for itself.

 

[LenTednTony]

mines exhausting
you just keep claiming in any circumstances they d get more

on what basis

theyve had success for 50 years they get more plastics than real fans
weve endured 12 seaons in the bottom 2 divisions and still get 25k purely from local support after a decade of purgatory

we dont have 50 coaches from Ireland every game or 3 coach parks full ofSurrey and essex coach companies
and we dont have people from the far east on trips

but and heres the thing
if we had won as much wed have 50 coachloads of Irish people whod claim theyd supported us since birth in kilkenny
And Reginald would drive his BMW up to Sheffield every other week for a prawn sandwich along with thousands of his type

if man utd had oldhams record I reckon theyd get as many as them , its why they do

Sorry but no, we wouldn't. We don't have an airport for all the plastics to fly into like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Leeds etc etc. It HAS to be part of the equation.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

so keef your insistant that had man utd only won one league cup in the last 80 years theyd still get 76000 now

personally think that is beyond nonsense

every huge club now if infested by glory hunters
the clubs with the biggest gates will always be the succesful ones

had man utd only had 5 seasons in the top flight in the past 45 years like weve had doubt very much theyd be getting 21000 in their 10th season in league 2

to claim otherwise is utter nonsense, theyd be only getting big gates v bury and rochdale

Any idea where I can catch a coach from Ireland to Nottingham to watch the mighty Forest? Asking for a mate. He decided to support them after they won the European Cup a couple of times. Not sure I'll get a ticket though.

 

[GrayBlade]

Don't think Sheffield's combined attendance is that good compared to Manchester, Liverpool and even Glasgow.

I know what you're going to say about league position and success etc but we'd still be miles behind whether we were much better or them much worse.

If the two Sheffield clubs had achieved anything like the success of those in Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow since the Second World War, they'd both be in stadiums with bigger capacities and filling them most weekends.

Support from within the city is as a good as if not better than anywhere else in the country when you consider the dearth of success both clubs fans have had in that period, and let's not forget how successful clubs drag in support from around the region and the country. I live in Derbyshire and there seem to be more Liverpool and ManU shirts on show than Derby, Chessy and the two Sheffield clubs put together, and the ones that I know are all Derbyshire born and bred.

 

[Revolution]

Hmmm, not sure that one stacks up . You can add on the populations of Northumberland (pretty much exclusively Mags) and Co Durham (huge swathes Mackems) and together with Tyne and Wear the combined population is nearer 2 million.

The other thing you have to remember about that area is that a number of former league clubs have folded: Gateshead/South Shields, Ashington, Durham City and Darlington all left the league and folded, and Hartlepool have just exited. There was even a second team in Middlesbrough at one time. Some of that is due to economics (particularly Ashington and Durham) but history suggests that when a league team up there has a sustained bad run, the locals give up.

Sunderland have spent one season below the top 2 divisions. Middlesbrough have had 2 such seasons. Newcastle none. All the other regions clubs who were that low have disappeared or are non league. That is perhaps telling.

 

[Dkc]

Sorry but no, we wouldn't. We don't have an airport for all the plastics to fly into like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Leeds etc etc. It HAS to be part of the equation.

Surprised you haven't noticed the ads for the airport that were beside the pitch and on top of the kop all last season. There are daily flights from Doncaster Sheffield to and from Dublin, and it takes less time to drive from the centre of Sheffield to DSA than eg from the centre of Leeds to LBA.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

I understand the thought behind the two clubs rivalry making the attendances higher but if the clubs had merged around the fifties early sixties when there was no fierce rivalry the new club would have grown to probably have leeds as the main rivals and I can imagine our gates would have been higher and who knows maybe winning things? Europe? Bloody hell getting carried away now, literally. :-o

This is probably the best example of nonsense posted on this thread. To say there was no fierce rivalry between the clubs in the 50's and 60's is on a nonsense level trumped (pardon the fake news link here) only by the suggestion that a merger might have resulted in higher gates and winning things. Getting carried away is maybe the most sensible suggestion - in a straightjacket.

 

[georgethecat]

Surprised you haven't noticed the ads for the airport that were beside the pitch and on top of the kop all last season. There are daily flights from Doncaster Sheffield to and from Dublin, and it takes less time to drive from the centre of Sheffield to DSA than eg from the centre of Leeds to LBA.

Sadly there don't appear to be flights from Dublin to Doncaster Sheffield on a Saturday. As a result exiles on the island of Ireland have to fly into other uk cities and travel onwards to Sheffield. The large numbers of fans from the so called bigger clubs making the journey on a weekly basis from Ireland, both north and south, is amazing. There is no doubt that if they blades had the profile of those clubs, and recent successes, then there would be a significantly increased fan base, and perhaps the demand for a more regular airline service into Doncaster Sheffield.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

If the two Sheffield clubs had achieved anything like the success of those in Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow since the Second World War, they'd both be in stadiums with bigger capacities and filling them most weekends.

Nah.

You're saying United could potentially be bigger than Man United if history had been kinder to us. That's laughable.

Can you explain why Forest are not that we'll supported despite being the best team in Europe thirty odd years ago. Why no fan momentum from that. It's because the numbers are not there. Unlike in Manchester and Liverpool where the hunger for it is huge.

 

[Boxer Blade]

This is probably the best example of nonsense posted on this thread. To say there was no fierce rivalry between the clubs in the 50's and 60's is on a nonsense level trumped (pardon the fake news link here) only by the suggestion that a merger might have resulted in higher gates and winning things. Getting carried away is maybe the most sensible suggestion - in a straightjacket.

The fierce rivalry started, in my view around mid late 6o's, before then of course there was rivalry but I dont think you woukd call it fierce, supporters if both clubs watched both teams, hardly fierce, as it later and is now, I said a merger " might" have, are you saying it couldn't have? Get a fuckin life and stop drinking at lunch time if you can't take it, " in a straight jacket" hilarious how long did it take you to think that up

 

[snootyfenooty]

The fierce rivalry started, in my view around mid late 6o's, before then of course there was rivalry but I dont think you woukd call it fierce,

The rivalry goes back to day dot. What about the story about Fatty Foulke who, when pelted with rocks by pig fans, decided to wade into the crowd and chin the miscreants. Then there was the messages posted in the obituary columns after a derby match in the old days (some of which were hilarious by the way). United were formed with the intention of being a big club and Wednesdayites resented it as much then as they do now.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Snoots, my point is that rivalry has been there, but fierce? I am around the same age as you and remember my first games were when I was around 9/10, never any malice or trouble at the games or at school, infact as I have said people would famously go to each others ground on alternate weeks and support the " other" team, thats not fierce rivalry, I believe it started in the mid 60's when the sport started to grow and singing and chanting started, Monday morning at school when I was at secondary was all about what had gone off on Saturday, I remember it well, I was, like a lot of teenagers at the time involved in it.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Snoots, my point is that rivalry has been there, but fierce? I am around the same age as you and remember my first games were when I was around 9/10, never any malice or trouble at the games or at school, infact as I have said people would famously go to each others ground on alternate weeks and support the " other" team, thats not fierce rivalry, I believe it started in the mid 60's when the sport started to grow and singing and chanting started, Monday morning at school when I was at secondary was all about what had gone off on Saturday, I remember it well, I was, like a lot of teenagers at the time involved in it.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying but don't you think the ferocity of the rivalry has grown in parallel with the ferocity of society during the same period. The rivalry has been as fierce as society has tolerated at any given period.

 

[GrayBlade]

Nah.

You're saying United could potentially be bigger than Man United if history had been kinder to us. That's laughable.

Can you explain why Forest are not that we'll supported despite being the best team in Europe thirty odd years ago. Why no fan momentum from that. It's because the numbers are not there. Unlike in Manchester and Liverpool where the hunger for it is huge.

Bigger than ManU, where did I say that? You're making it up as you go along, that's what's laughable.

What I said is that if the Sheffield club's had spent most of the past 70 years in the top division and occasionally winning trophies along the way, they'd need bigger stadiums and they'd fill them every week. Forest had their moment in the sun under Clough, Wolves had a good period as well, but you can't compare that short term 'boost' to teams that have nearly always been in the top division and often in for winning something. It wouldn't take much to match Everton's support or even Liverpool's if us and/or the Pigs had followed a similar path of only being out of the top division once apiece since WW2 and winning thirty odd league titles and cups between us in that time.

Ant there's also the potential side of success, look how formally 'downtrodden' Chelsea and Man City have doubled their support since the early 90's since they've been backed and won thing, and those fans will stay with them now just as long as they're still up there.

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

Bigger than ManU, where did I say that? You're making it up as you go along, that's what's laughable.

What I said is that if the Sheffield club's had spent most of the past 70 years in the top division and occasionally winning trophies along the way, they'd need bigger stadiums and they'd fill them every week. Forest had their moment in the sun under Clough, Wolves had a good period as well, but you can't compare that short term 'boost' to teams that have nearly always been in the top division and often in for winning something. It wouldn't take much to match Everton's support or even Liverpool's if us and/or the Pigs had followed a similar path of only being out of the top division once apiece since WW2 and winning thirty odd league titles and cups between us in that time.

Ant there's also the potential side of success, look how formally 'downtrodden' Chelsea and Man City have doubled their support since the early 90's since they've been backed and won thing, and those fans will stay with them now just as long as they're still up there.

I doubt we'll ever find out what our potential is with the way things are these days. Peace.

 

[GrayBlade]

I doubt we'll ever find out what our potential is with the way things are these days. Peace.

I can't disagree with that mate. UTB

 

[Dkc]

Sadly there don't appear to be flights from Dublin to Doncaster Sheffield on a Saturday. As a result exiles on the island of Ireland have to fly into other uk cities and travel onwards to Sheffield. The large numbers of fans from the so called bigger clubs making the journey on a weekly basis from Ireland, both north and south, is amazing. There is no doubt that if they blades had the profile of those clubs, and recent successes, then there would be a significantly increased fan base, and perhaps the demand for a more regular airline service into Doncaster Sheffield.

Seems to be decent flights for Irish Blades, though it entails a night in Sheff. Good weekend out I say. Perhaps Flybe should promote it.

Sat, Sep 23

8:30 AM – 9:30 AM
Dublin (DUB) – Doncaster (DSA)
FlyBE 4472 · Embraer RJ-195
Average legroom (30")
1h 00m


Return flight
Sun, Sep 24

7:20 PM – 8:25 PM
Doncaster (DSA) – Dublin (DUB)
FlyBE 4479 · Economy Class · Embraer RJ-195
Average legroom (30")

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

The fierce rivalry started, in my view around mid late 6o's, before then of course there was rivalry but I dont think you woukd call it fierce, supporters if both clubs watched both teams, hardly fierce, as it later and is now, I said a merger " might" have, are you saying it couldn't have? Get a fuckin life and stop drinking at lunch time if you can't take it, " in a straight jacket" hilarious how long did it take you to think that up

My apologies to you Boxer Blade; it wasn't meant to be personal (just thought the idea was mad!) but realise it was an insensitive comment to make. As far as the rivalry goes, I think the police have turned it into tribalism with an obsession with segregation. The lost days of supporters going to watch both teams is also probably indirectly due to over-zealous policing, together with crazy pricing policies too, and SWFC are amongst the craziest. Peace.....UTB!

 

[blade too long]

Sorry but no, we wouldn't. We don't have an airport for all the plastics to fly into like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Leeds etc etc. It HAS to be part of the equation.

doncasters as far from us as manc airport is to old trafford

 

[blade too long]

Any idea where I can catch a coach from Ireland to Nottingham to watch the mighty Forest? Asking for a mate. He decided to support them after they won the European Cup a couple of times. Not sure I'll get a ticket though.

https://www.goeuro.co.uk/buses_from_nottingham_to_dublin