Train Station Pushing - policing yesterday

[JohnDenver]

Must admit, I couldn't be bothered with all this for the sake of a Barnsley away match.

Funneled into a Leisure Centre like it's Hurricane Katrina. Kettled like rioting anarchists. I dread to think what it would have been like given a defeat.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

SYP had been ratcheting up the tension all week with warnings for me and Foulkes Jr Sr, and everyone else, not to start some sort of large scale violent disorder.

As others have pointed out this attitude and approach must come from whoever is in charge of the operation. If they set the tone as co-operative and communal, then that feeds down to the troops on the ground, if, otoh, it's coercive and oppressive that too sets a tone which passes down the chain of command.

It is possible to change these things sometimes on a small and local scale but we do have to speak up.

The policing all.week was provocative, wildly disproportionate, and must have been hideously expensive in a time of tight budgets. Whoever made those decisions is not up to the job, and her/his superiors *might* like to know that.

Letters to the papers might be another response, emphasising the cost.

Did anyone get any pictures of the absurd numbers.of police. I felt like it was 1 to 1 and expected.one of them to introduce themselves.to me at some point and tell me he was my personal Safeguarding Executive and would be watching over me in the friendliest possible way all afternoon. Then they'd go home and check my emails and text messages to to ensure I'd had an optimal entertainment experience.

UTB

 

[HillmortonBlade]

SYP had been ratcheting up the tension all week with warnings for me and Foulkes Jr Sr, and everyone else, not to start some sort of large scale violent disorder.

As others have pointed out this attitude and approach must come from whoever is in charge of the operation. If they set the tone as co-operative and communal, then that feeds down to the troops on the ground, if, otoh, it's coercive and oppressive that too sets a tone which passes down the chain of command.

It is possible to change these things sometimes on a small and local scale but we do have to speak up.

The policing all.week was provocative, wildly disproportionate, and must have been hideously expensive in a time of tight budgets. Whoever made those decisions is not up to the job, and her/his superiors *might* like to know that.

Letters to the papers might be another response, emphasising the cost.

Did anyone get any pictures of the absurd numbers.of police. I felt like it was 1 to 1 and expected.one of them to introduce themselves.to me at some point and tell me he was my personal Safeguarding Executive and would be watching over me in the friendliest possible way all afternoon. Then they'd go home and check my emails and text messages to to ensure I'd had an optimal entertainment experience.

UTB

The police SERVICE. I guess they serving us by ensuring our safety... Safety from what? Marauding Dingles? It's been said by wiser posters than I, they have to police us all to deal with the handful of idiots. But if perhaps if they treated the rest of us with at least some dignity, especially once it is clear that it's just a crowd of people waiting for a train, then it'll make their overtime much easier to earn. And as for corralling (Bonanza reference) people to drink in a leisure centre? I know Dingleland is a bit behind the times, but have we really gone back so far in time??

 

[bornablade]

It was a complete shambles yesterday... With Police from other forces (Cleveland and Durham) trying to run the show. We know one of the stewards and his submitted report was less than glowing.

You might have seen that I tweeted the Football Supporters' Federation yesterday. I'm fed up of being treated like an animal at away grounds. I do have sympathy for the Police on the ground, who often have little confidence in the decisions made above their heads. And I know that there is a proportion of idiots who go to football, drink too much and cause bother.

But perhaps the Police should do the job of dealing with the idiots instead of infringing the civil liberties of law abiding citizens?

Looking at other events and other threads - we have the Blackpool fan requesting assistance with their problems with the Oyston family, we have Arsenal and Liverpool fans demonstrating about ticket prices. In addition there was a thread on Sheffield Forum about Wendy fans being refused admission to public buses because they were football supporters. And then of course there are these events in Barnsley.

Now I'm not sure how strong the Football Supporters Federation is but whilst every set of fans try and take on the authorities separately then there is no chance of success and change.

It's time fans were treated as valued customers. Unfortunately the powers that be know that the relationship between fan and their club is generally unconditional,and we will all continue to be treated as second class citizens.

 

[blade62]

It was an absolute shambles from a number of parties.
A- Surely there is another door in Barnsley Station that was less of a deathtrap.
B- The police I thought were very poorly organised. They should have either lined up on one side of the pavement and funnelled everyone through, avoiding the free for all. Or they could have separated everyone into groups as they have done at Wembley. I actually said to one police officer on the platform that someone is going to seriously hurt themselves in the crush. He just nodded and said 'I know'. Shocking.
C- The train service. Does it not make sense to run 5+ carriage trains or would that be seen by shareholders as inefficient.

However this did not ruin a thoroughly enjoyable away day. Great match and UTB

Instead of using the door directly onto Sheff bound platform I walked across to bus station, over the bridge and then down in lift directly on to platform. The police were stopping other people trying to take that route, but I was alone and not looking football related so they didnt try to stop me.
On route to match thought it was complete overkill with police officer every 20yds.
The smoke bomb issue needs sorting, one reportedly hit a woman which I didn't see, but the one that landed on pitch was just a few feet away from Howard, luckily Barnsley weren't attacking at the time.

 

[Elsecar_Blade]

Funny how the South Yorkshire Police website tries to bamboozle you when you look to make a complaint about them ...

However, if you want to compliment them, they give you the details easy as anything. Funny that.

Everybody needs to email the FSF as Linz posted earlier. They will get a response for us at the very least. It's important that SYP know that this was completely OTT because otherwise they will see yesterday's mission as success, i.e. no/few arrests. They need to know that the law-abiding citizens (the 99.9%) were appalled at the staggering waste of resources, the completely over the top nature of it all and, in my opinion, the fact I've been going to Oakwell for over 20 years to watch United and NEVER witnessed any trouble other than good natured banter chants.

It was only when I got in the car afterwards, I realised SWFC were at home to Huddersfield. Train reaches Barnsley at 14:15 ish. The cynic in me tells me that is why they wanted to delay the United fans at about 14:05 - keep them off that train to Sheffield that may have Wednesday and Hudders' fans on it. In which case, make the game a 12:30 kick off!

 

[Dkc]

Regarding flares, setting them off is one thing, throwing them is another. I'm not saying fans should be allowed to set off flares, or they are at all safe, but I'd rather see someone holding a flare in the air above his head than lobbing it into his fellow fans

But the fact that fans are going to be arrested and receive five year bans if caught means that they will often ignite the flare then throw it. It they must do that, they should never throw it into their fellow fans - easier said than done I suppose, especially if away fans turn out in numbers.

Perhaps, if electronic flares (very bright light, no ignition and no smoke) were permitted we'd see less pyro at games. Though I doubt if the coppers would differentiate between the two.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I thought they said beforehand that people would be searched for flares and anyone found with one would be banned. Time something was done about this. Apart from injuring our own fans, the club is likely to get fined.

Security is the home teams responsibility isn't it?
Only people I saw searched were young kids.

 

[metalblade]

It was only when I got in the car afterwards, I realised SWFC were at home to Huddersfield. Train reaches Barnsley at 14:15 ish. The cynic in me tells me that is why they wanted to delay the United fans at about 14:05 - keep them off that train to Sheffield that may have Wednesday and Hudders' fans on it. In which case, make the game a 12:30 kick off!

And there you have it in a nutshell though not surprising at all given the incompetence of SY Police. It is a no brainer that there will be problems when maybe up to 2000+ football fans descend onto a small rail station to catch a train home, I use the term train loosely probably a Pacer which is in fact a Leyland National bus body from 1980 mounted on train wheels x2 on a route generally known to be one of the worst services in England .................. it was never going to cope. Are we saying that SYP didn't envisage that there would be a crush at the station (really when it happens every time a big away following goes to Oakwell) Do the train operators who are happy to sell the public tickets not ever think it might be prudent to put a few extra dedicated trains on for the 15 minute or so run back to Sheffield surely they have a few extra carriages knocking about somewhere. Shouldn't SYP be liaising better with SYPTE and putting measures in place to shift large numbers faster? Nah feck it they are only football fans which in their eyes equates to scum.
Could SUFC help, could it be possible to charter a train with more than two coaches like they do for the Wembley trips when we know there will be a large away following ?

 

[South London Blade]

I use the term train loosely probably a Pacer which is in fact a Leyland National bus body from 1980 mounted on train wheels x2 on a route generally known to be one of the worst services in England ....

This is the regular train they put on isn't it?

 

[RossoDeltic]

Chelsea charter a train. I know this as Dad has driven at least two of them recently. 11 or 12 coaches get quite a few on. Not much spare Pacer or Sprinter stock available though there is usually a spare East Mids HST on a Saturday.

 

[Northyorksblade]

Security is the home teams responsibility isn't it?
Only people I saw searched were young kids.

By young kids. Some of those coppers were only 14.

 

[Jon Bon]

It was a complete shambles yesterday... With Police from other forces (Cleveland and Durham) trying to run the show.

They were probably hanging around down here after that old rat bag's visit to Sheffield on Thursday. Never seen so many vans from all over the country and coppers for such a tiny crowd (Sheffield). They were just stood in groups of 4 or 5 chatting to each other, probably about what they were going to spend their 'hard earned' overtime on.

 

[Rooks]

Could SUFC help, could it be possible to charter a train with more than two coaches like they do for the Wembley trips when we know there will be a large away following ?

There were at least 10 Coaches on each train for the Play Off Final v Huddersfield Town and the FA Cup Semi Final v Hull City.

We tried to provide a special train for the Carling Cup Semi Final v Tottenham but Network Rail couldn't supply one.

We have made an enquiry to East Midland Trains regarding the possibility of chartering a train should we reach the Play Off Final, but due to essential maintenance work scheduled for that weekend it seems unlikely.

 

[jt64]

Honestly, people need to report their experiences down the proper channels. It sounded like a complete failure of policing, of which there was a ton of for reasons only known to themselves. Wasn't there myself, but would have loved to have seen what SYP would have done at the game I was at in Augsburg - away fans everywhere, drinking with home fans pre game, sharing trains to the ground (ironically ended up next to some Leeds fans from the Yorkshire Schalke fan club en route), no segregation going into the ground, everyone heading back together - all throughout the dibbles were there - just watching and that's it.

 

[FSF]

Hello, this is Amanda Jacks and I'm the caseworker for the Football Supporters' Federation. Part of my role is to assist supporters who may have cause to complain about policing or stewarding. A number of you have already been in touch with your experiences yesterday and I'd really like to hear from more of you. All accounts will be received and treated in confidence.

When situations such as these have arisen before, I've compiled accounts and sent them to the relevant police forces (or clubs where applicable) asking that they consider the feedback from supporters when planning future matches and also provide a transparent explanation as to tactics.

I don't pretend to have a magic wand and can understand there may be cynicism with regard to getting in touch but as others have said why should you tolerate such policing "just because" it's football. Until fans become more vociferous the harder it will be to achieve change.

My email is [email protected]

 

[sitwell]

Hello, this is Amanda Jacks and I'm the caseworker for the Football Supporters' Federation. Part of my role is to assist supporters who may have cause to complain about policing or stewarding. A number of you have already been in touch with your experiences yesterday and I'd really like to hear from more of you. All accounts will be received and treated in confidence.

When situations such as these have arisen before, I've compiled accounts and sent them to the relevant police forces (or clubs where applicable) asking that they consider the feedback from supporters when planning future matches and also provide a transparent explanation as to tactics.

I don't pretend to have a magic wand and can understand there may be cynicism with regard to getting in touch but as others have said why should you tolerate such policing "just because" it's football. Until fans become more vociferous the harder it will be to achieve change.

My email is [email protected]

Your name should be FFS rather than FSF

 

[metalblade]

There were at least 10 Coaches on each train for the Play Off Final v Huddersfield Town and the FA Cup Semi Final v Hull City.

We tried to provide a special train for the Carling Cup Semi Final v Tottenham but Network Rail couldn't supply one.

We have made an enquiry to East Midland Trains regarding the possibility of chartering a train should we reach the Play Off Final, but due to essential maintenance work scheduled for that weekend it seems unlikely.

Yes Mick I know, I have used the chartered trains to Wembley. My meaning was more than the two coach service trains to Barnsley, I should have worded it better. It could maybe be something the club should look at for large away followings, the only down side is being a charter means no alcohol allowed on board. It is the only way to travel into London as far as I'm concerned. But if the train companies won't play there is not a lot we can do.

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

And there you have it in a nutshell though not surprising at all given the incompetence of SY Police. It is a no brainer that there will be problems when maybe up to 2000+ football fans descend onto a small rail station to catch a train home, I use the term train loosely probably a Pacer which is in fact a Leyland National bus body from 1980 mounted on train wheels x2 on a route generally known to be one of the worst services in England ..................

In fact it depends on what type of Pacer you are referring to. Last week I was down in Chapeltown (on my whistle stop tour of the UK - I know how to live!) and saw a Class 144 Pacer running toward Meadowhall which has a Walter Alexander (as opposed to the Leyland) body. Either way they were all stopgap trains running on a four wheel chassis which should have been pensioned off by now. The problem is the TOCs don't have much in the way of spare rolling stock to provide extra trains or strengthen services. It's not the 1950's anymore

 

[metalblade]

In fact it depends on what type of Pacer you are referring to. Last week I was down in Chapeltown (on my whistle stop tour of the UK - I know how to live!) and saw a Class 144 Pacer running toward Meadowhall which has a Walter Alexander (as opposed to the Leyland) body. Either way they were all stopgap trains running on a four wheel chassis which should have been pensioned off by now. The problem is the TOCs don't have much in the way of spare rolling stock to provide extra trains or strengthen services. It's not the 1950's anymore

Should have gone to Barrow Hill Roundhouse and made it a rail tour at the same time they have loads of old diesels and coaches

 

[Coily]

This is the regular train they put on isn't it?

The Camptown Ladies sing this song, do dah, do dah...

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I know this is a flawed statement, but if smoke bombs werent banned they wouldn't be thrown nearly as much.

With Health and Safety and the dangers involved , why dont they revert back to chucking toilet rolls as streamers , like they did in the 70s. Lot safer especially the type with that puppy advert

UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Honestly, people need to report their experiences down the proper channels. It sounded like a complete failure of policing, of which there was a ton of for reasons only known to themselves. Wasn't there myself, but would have loved to have seen what SYP would have done at the game I was at in Augsburg - away fans everywhere, drinking with home fans pre game, sharing trains to the ground (ironically ended up next to some Leeds fans from the Yorkshire Schalke fan club en route), no segregation going into the ground, everyone heading back together - all throughout the dibbles were there - just watching and that's it.

Hello, this is Amanda Jacks and I'm the caseworker for the Football Supporters' Federation. Part of my role is to assist supporters who may have cause to complain about policing or stewarding. A number of you have already been in touch with your experiences yesterday and I'd really like to hear from more of you. All accounts will be received and treated in confidence.

When situations such as these have arisen before, I've compiled accounts and sent them to the relevant police forces (or clubs where applicable) asking that they consider the feedback from supporters when planning future matches and also provide a transparent explanation as to tactics.

I don't pretend to have a magic wand and can understand there may be cynicism with regard to getting in touch but as others have said why should you tolerate such policing "just because" it's football. Until fans become more vociferous the harder it will be to achieve change.

My email is [email protected]

Isn't a complaint to the police commissioner the correct route for fans to take, he his paid to keep the police in line isn't he?

It's also about time the club made a very public statement about how it's customers, the majority who are well behaved get treated by the boys in blue, at least it could start a very public debate on the subject.

 

[johnny wishbone]

The transport police inside Barnsley station were less than complimentary about their counterparts outside anyone with half a brain could see what was happening but these arrogant fools seemed content to let it happen I'm a big lad and even I was quite scared when the pushing started and I wouldn't have liked to have had my little girl in that situation

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Barricaded in, barricaded out ,shunted around like sheep between rows of riot police and snarling dogs, herded into what looked like a darkened gymnasium at the metrodome to try and find a pint only to find a 150 strong queue for beer, gave up after 20mins , managed to get past the beady looks of the police to go upstairs to Rigby`s, rejoin civilisation and get a pint, albeit in a plastic container, no queue, no bother, like chalk and cheese compared to downstairs which incidentally is what the expensive burger tasted like at the ground ( why is football catering so bad), crushed in the toilets at half time, eyeballed by stewards the whole game, videoed by yet more police, at least we took the car and avoided the train station debacle and thankfully we won otherwise the day would have been an horrendous experience. Herded around like cattle and treated like children for the sake of a couple hundred idiots out of a crowd of 16000 plus, there has to be a better way.

I'm surprised people didn't stay in Sheffield and then get a train to Barnsley. I had a breakfast and and a couple of pints at the Wetherspoons at Leeds station and got the 11:15 train to arrive at Barnsley at about 11:40. Afterwards, came out of the ground up the hill past the coaches and and told a copper I needed Platform 2 (north to Leeds) and he let me through. Platform 1 to Sheffield looked, whilst full, to be well controlled but didn't realise there were large crowds outside the station. Had it been me travelling to Sheffield, I'd have stayed in Barnsley for an hour or two, had some lunch and a beer or two.

 

[RossoDeltic]

Number of choices for organising a charter train. DRS, DBS, Riviera. Also SRPS have their own stock. WCRC have stock/locos but they are having a few issues at the minute. Network Rail would provide the pathing.

 

[Deleted member 1486]

Or they could have separated everyone into groups as they have done at Wembley

Have to agree with this. They certainly had enough numbers to split people into manageable (large/roughly train sized) groups like they do at Wembley heading towards the tubes. With a bit more communication and interaction it could have been done without antagonising anyone too.

 

[grafikhaus]

I believe the officer who laughed was with the Durham contingency.

So they can get overtime + travel to come down from Durham for a minor South Yorkshire football game? What were SYPD up to? Not going after groomers in Rotherham, that's for sure. I blame the Tories and these 'savage cuts' to the police numbers.

 

[grafikhaus]

In fact it depends on what type of Pacer you are referring to. Last week I was down in Chapeltown (on my whistle stop tour of the UK - I know how to live!) and saw a Class 144 Pacer running toward Meadowhall which has a Walter Alexander (as opposed to the Leyland) body. Either way they were all stopgap trains running on a four wheel chassis which should have been pensioned off by now. The problem is the TOCs don't have much in the way of spare rolling stock to provide extra trains or strengthen services. It's not the 1950's anymore

 

[Foxy]

What were SYPD up to? Not going after groomers in Rotherham, that's for sure. I blame the Tories and these 'savage cuts' to the police numbers.

Are you forgetting there was gargantuan crowd at Hillsborough to deal with, thanks to great fixture planning?