The problem with Souza....

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I Thought all our midfield was excellent today they certainly ran themselves into the ground. In fact I would say that's the best performance of the season from our midfield, it was refreshing too see us pass it about rather than just boot it down the channels and give it straight back to the opposition.
Yes there was a few wayward passes and they tired after about 70min but definitely something to work on..
 
coolasanidiot said:
What a load of bollox this thread is. Negativity around any players today is plain wrong. Every player who played, deserves credit. That was by far the best performance of the season bar none- any one that's played football knows it's so easy to play a loose ball, take one player too much on and come unstuck.

The team deserved min a point - no one deserved less than 7 today - all put a stint in - some of the keep ball was outstanding - Souza was combative and did not hide, he was good.

Special mention to Brooks he was fantastic- thought Illy was back he was so good.
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Echo this. Souza played very well. I watched him closely all game as he stood out. Calm, knows who is over his shoulder, first time passes, always knew the pass before he received the ball. Mislaid a couple of passes, but how many times did West Ham give the ball away due to his excellent positioning. Great performance from him and the rest of the starting 11.
 
From the pig end said:
He's a beast.
He lost possession twice in bad spots (one was a bit lucky from West Ham) but other than that dictated play. Broke up attacks and started plenty of ours.
He's a leader and his attitude is infectious.
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His passing undid much of his okay work 🤷‍♂️ So much of our passing was limited today so it wasn't just him but he stood out
 
Looking at the stats from Souza to see if it was just me. It’s not he was stats wise the joint second worst player for us.
 
Souza is great at being half a player - if he could learn to be the other half , he'd be a star.
He's great at the defensive side of midfield , closing gaps , closing down , tackling , winning headers and making 5 yard sideways or backward passes.
But he just doesn't have the brain for the part of the game where he is in possession of the football.
So often today he could have turned the game into a creative situation for us , but he just freezes with the ball at his feet. At one point in the first half he was in the clear with the ball with about 15 yards of green in front of him and teammates waiting for as diagonal pass - he could have charged forward himself or put a teammate into a great situation - but you can literally see the cogs in his brain turning "what do I do now?"
So he stops/dithers and plays a sideways/backwards ball.
Yes , it might count as a completed pass but it gets the team nowhere and in the PL we can't afford to waste these occasions.
A coach needs to grab him and give him some lessons on what to do with the ball after he's won it.
I'm sure he is physically capable , it's his brain that is limited - almost like he can't take the next logical step , rather than panic and opt for safety in a situation where passing forward or going forward is obviously going to cause opposition defenders problems
 
The double tackle Souza did in the middle of the park and ended up passing it to Bogle? or Hamer? was fantastic by the way and got us out of some right shit at the time.
 
Geritforud said:
Stats wise(reaction), you're almost the biggest twat on here.
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Again incorrect.
Keen Blade said:
Souza is great at being half a player - if he could learn to be the other half , he'd be a star.
He's great at the defensive side of midfield , closing gaps , closing down , tackling , winning headers and making 5 yard sideways or backward passes.
But he just doesn't have the brain for the part of the game where he is in possession of the football.
So often today he could have turned the game into a creative situation for us , but he just freezes with the ball at his feet. At one point in the first half he was in the clear with the ball with about 15 yards of green in front of him and teammates waiting for as diagonal pass - he could have charged forward himself or put a teammate into a great situation - but you can literally see the cogs in his brain turning "what do I do now?"
So he stops/dithers and plays a sideways/backwards ball.
Yes , it might count as a completed pass but it gets the team nowhere and in the PL we can't afford to waste these occasions.
A coach needs to grab him and give him some lessons on what to do with the ball after he's won it.
I'm sure he is physically capable , it's his brain that is limited - almost like he can't take the next logical step , rather than panic and opt for safety in a situation where passing forward or going forward is obviously going to cause opposition defenders problems
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get ready for abuse 😂
 
He’s fine for a team at the bottom of a league with backs to the wall. My real concern is he’s useless with the ball at his feet. Which is ok for now as he’s ’doing a job’ but I don’t see how we can really attack the championship with this guy in midfield, I don’t think he has enough to provide that bit of magic you need to finish top 2 in the championship.

There’s a lot of hyperbole both ways with this guy, but really he’s just kinda bang average for me. He won’t stand out next year in the champ in the way many of the Leicester/southampton/leeds boys have IMO
 

Nowt wrong with Souza, since CW came in he’s found his role in the side. He’s the classic water carrier, making things tick in the middle, breaks up play and gives it simple. We’ve been lacking that sort of player since Coutts. He’s obviously not the finished article, but since Wilder came in he’s earned his place in the team.
 
blader said:
He’s fine for a team at the bottom of a league with backs to the wall. My real concern is he’s useless with the ball at his feet. Which is ok for now as he’s ’doing a job’ but I don’t see how we can really attack the championship with this guy in midfield, I don’t think he has enough to provide that bit of magic you need to finish top 2 in the championship.

There’s a lot of hyperbole both ways with this guy, but really he’s just kinda bang average for me. He won’t stand out next year in the champ in the way many of the Leicester/southampton/leeds boys have IMO
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"Useless with the ball at his feet" is harsh. In that holding role, and not quite being the Norwood or Coutts playmaker type, I don't think we should expect him to create loads. He was sloppy on two or three occasions, and they may show that he shouldn't try to be too clever on the ball. I think he's improved both offensively and defensively since Norwood was benched, and I expect that to continue.

I agree there should be competition for him next season though, and yes, maybe a type who's even better on the ball.
 
Bergen Blade said:
may show that he shouldn't try to be too clever on the ball. I think he's improved both offensively and defensively since Norwood was benched, and I expect that to continue.
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Exactly this, JLT was a bomb scare, now he still has his moments, but they are vastly reduced as he has learned his limitations, nothing wrong in 'row Z'in' it if needed, look at Boro last night

And agree without Norwood Vini seems to have took on more responsibility, collects it and moves it through the lines, hes a unit and can use his body to shield the ball.

Worth considering new to the EPL & UK £14m Souza, Leeds paid £1m less to take Piroe from one EFL club to another
 
steve26272 said:
Exactly this, JLT was a bomb scare, now he still has his moments, but they are vastly reduced as he has learned his limitations, nothing wrong in 'row Z'in' it if needed, look at Boro last night

And agree without Norwood Vini seems to have took on more responsibility, collects it and moves it through the lines, hes a unit and can use his body to shield the ball.

Worth considering new to the EPL & UK £14m Souza, Leeds paid £1m less to take Piroe from one EFL club to another
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Souza won't even have cost half that
 
Bergen Blade said:
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"Useless with the ball at his feet" is harsh. In that holding role, and not quite being the Norwood or Coutts playmaker type, I don't think we should expect him to create loads. He was sloppy on two or three occasions, and they may show that he shouldn't try to be too clever on the ball. I think he's improved both offensively and defensively since Norwood was benched, and I expect that to continue.

I agree there should be competition for him next season though, and yes, maybe a type who's even better on the ball.
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But again my point is, even it it’s harsh, he’s not good with the ball at his feet.

To say ‘we shouldn’t expect him to create loads’ is giving him a complete free pass he doesn’t deserve. It’s not 1998, teams at the top of the champ don’t have an ‘enforcer’ and a ‘playmaker’, but actually they can all play.

Souza will be a hindrance in team that should, in theory, dominate the ball next year, and thus be one of our main sources of creativity.

Do you think he gets into any of the top 4 champ teams now? I can’t see it, I think their midfielders are much more creative which is what you need to be successful.

The Nick Montgomery days are done
 
blader said:
But again my point is, even it it’s harsh, he’s not good with the ball at his feet.

To say ‘we shouldn’t expect him to create loads’ is giving him a complete free pass he doesn’t deserve. It’s not 1998, teams at the top of the champ don’t have an ‘enforcer’ and a ‘playmaker’, but actually they can all play.

Souza will be a hindrance in team that should, in theory, dominate the ball next year, and thus be one of our main sources of creativity.

Do you think he gets into any of the top 4 champ teams now? I can’t see it, I think their midfielders are much more creative which is what you need to be successful.

The Nick Montgomery days are done
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I don't think he will be here next season anyway so it's a moot point but it's not beyond the wit of man to accommodate a players ability into a team frame or style of play
Look at what wilder did with basham o Connel Baldock egan and stephens not to mention Duffy
 
blader said:
But again my point is, even it it’s harsh, he’s not good with the ball at his feet.

To say ‘we shouldn’t expect him to create loads’ is giving him a complete free pass he doesn’t deserve. It’s not 1998, teams at the top of the champ don’t have an ‘enforcer’ and a ‘playmaker’, but actually they can all play.

Souza will be a hindrance in team that should, in theory, dominate the ball next year, and thus be one of our main sources of creativity.

Do you think he gets into any of the top 4 champ teams now? I can’t see it, I think their midfielders are much more creative which is what you need to be successful.

The Nick Montgomery days are done
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Surprised to see you think his passing is that bad. He needs to stop the dangerous cross field passes from Sunday, but I've also been pleasantly surprised with his distribution on occasions. Again, in terms of accuracy only Archer is better among those who have featured regularly. And that is also having been played woefully out of position (and role) by Heckingbottom. While I suspect Monty's passing stats would put him in the category of a poor passer, Souza is at worst a neutral passer, i.e. he usually finds a teammate, if his passing isn't creative.

His defensive work is his main reason for featuring. But his strength, aggression, tackling and general ability to clean up in front of the centre halves also have attacking benefits. His midfield partners may be allowed to focus more on attacking. Wilder may decide to pick, or sign, another flair player over an all rounder. Maybe bring back the overlapping centre halves at some stage, who knows.
 
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