The opposition's 12th man

[Slim Man]

Going out on the front foot and attacking is all I ask. Misplaced passes don't bother me, losing possession doesn't, but when we don't even TRY to attack at home I will get fed up. Or when we're playing like we did in the first half v Colchester, not afraid to say some rather loud expletives came out there.

IF we go out and attack teams and put them on the rack for the first 10 minutes, the fans will be onside. if we don't they will get rightfully annoyed, we've been in this league for 5 years.

Don't be so naive as to blame the fans.

 

[Silent Blade]

Against Bury, Reed was substituted after 60 minutes when the crowd had started to get at the team and him in particular after he started to make errors. Whether it was the atmosphere which unsettled Reed who knows but he did have a very assured and quality first half. Within a minute we were 1-0 down.

Reed was rested for the home game against Colchester and returned to play the full Bradford game away.

That is how a manager protects and develops young players and yes he seems to be aware of the S2 home crowd already. Our committed, fantastic support can be a big asset and a big threat. Are all home crowds as critical when losing? I suppose it's all about expectations and our fans have big expectations. Before that home game he pleaded for patience from the crowd.

I remember reading somewhere else that Keith Kettleborough preferred playing in away games because of the stick he usually gets from the crowd playing in home games. My dad rated him but remembered that he would lose confidence easily when the crowd was hostile towards him

To be honest before the game at Swindon my son and I were disappointed to see Reed in the starting line up but he proved us wrong with a Man of the Match display. Our next game was at home to Bury he looked a bit nervous on occasions before being subbed (it was 0-0 at the time). Many in this forum who didnt go to the Swindon game were rather harsh on him and one was saying "what has he done for us", I replied saying that his performance at Swindon was much better than his previous best performance (v Southampton last season). I was at the Victoria pub in Dronfield last Sunday to watch our match at Bradford and my mate was saying "Reed? FFS!". I told him about his performance at Swindon but it went straight over his head. Every time Reed did positives in the Bradford game (such as tackling, closing down an attack quickly and playing a good one touch pass) I was pointing them out to my mate. Reed did ok at Swindon and I would start him again for this Saturday's match (hopefully we will play 433) and hope he will ignore the negativity that may come from the noisy minority

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don’t think we are any worse than any fans would be if they’d been watching their club so baldy underachieve for 5 years.

I think our fans are usually quite forgiving of lack of ability as long as it’s compensated for in bloody-mindedness, bravery and effort (Booker, Rogers, Monty, Morgs etc). What we don’t forgive and tend to become very angry about collectively is lack of fight, effort, determination etc. Although I will concede, since the Prem season, we have had a contingent of support that demands more than those qualities. Monty has been derided more, as was Cresswell etc.

I was only a nipper but to the best of my recollection, when we didn’t win a game til December in the top flight under Bassett, our fans were still right behind the team. That was because the players were giving their all and just coming up against better opposition. But whilst we’re in this league getting out fought and out worked by inferior teams, the fans will get angry. I actually thought our fans were great against Colchester and was equally surprised by the “We love United” chant at 2-0. Was great to see and hear.

I agree with those who say the players need to take responsibility and step up, work hard enough and play on the front foot.

All that being said, I think the fans can have an effect on the players (positive or negative) and I personally try to be as supportive as possible as I believe that way, I am doing everything I can to try to ensure the success of the team on the pitch. I’d like to see everyone doing the same but I completely understand the frustrations and don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to voice it if they so wish.

I try not to get on the players back but I have on rare occasions where I have felt extremely angry about the attitude being exhibited. Examples that spring to mind are the extremely gutless performance in the cup replay against Preston last year and the Bradford home game last year when despite them being down to 10 men and us being at home, we decided to waste time to play for the draw. Both of those instances absolutely boiled my piss and I couldn’t keep it in. But if I see players trying to win football matches and coming up short, they will always have my support although I will still come on here and have my say about those players that I don’t think are good enough and need replacing.

 

[OllyBlade]

The answer is simple. Buy players that are good enough and confident enough to win anyway. I'm afraid, however you want to spin it, United's on-the-pitch failings are the result of sustained mishandling of player recruitment supplemented by the odd disastrous managerial decision.

I imagine if Flitcroft took his Bury side to the Bernabeu and gave the same spiel, pointing out how outrageously hostile the Madrid crowd can be to their players if they don't score a goal every 10 minutes, it would do little to help them.

Good players win football matches despite the coordinated groanings of a handful of tossers. I imagine if we signed rather more good players this non-issue would go away.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I remember reading somewhere else that Keith Kettleborough preferred playing in away games because of the stick he usually gets from the crowd playing in home games. My dad rated him but remembered that he would lose confidence easily when the crowd was hostile towards him

To be honest before the game at Swindon my son and I were disappointed to see Reed in the starting line up but he proved us wrong with a Man of the Match display. Our next game was at home to Bury he looked a bit nervous on occasions before being subbed (it was 0-0 at the time). Many in this forum who didnt go to the Swindon game were rather harsh on him and one was saying "what has he done for us", I replied saying that his performance at Swindon was much better than his previous best performance (v Southampton last season). I was at the Victoria pub in Dronfield last Sunday to watch our match at Bradford and my mate was saying "Reed? FFS!". I told him about his performance at Swindon but it went straight over his head. Every time Reed did positives in the Bradford game (such as tackling, closing down an attack quickly and playing a good one touch pass) I was pointing them out to my mate. Reed did ok at Swindon and I would start him again for this Saturday's match (hopefully we will play 433) and hope he will ignore the negativity that may come from the noisy minority

Watching nearby fans watch Reed play reminds me of them watching Baxter - the lads can play very well for most of a half and as soon as they make a mistake the people in front of me are at them.

In the Bury match they were stony quiet and when Reed started making mistakes in the second half they were in their element. Arm waving, exasperation, hollering and one actually said "that's what you get if you play Under-11's in your team". I was relieved when Adkins took him off but it was as though he had not played so well in the first half or at Swindon the week before.

 

[James Boreman]

Our fans have been brought up on hoof and don't realise the games moved on. A string of passes is moaned at, anyone who tries and fails something inventive is moaned at. It's no coincidence some of the best footballing sides come from "friendly" home grounds, ie Swansea.
The players should be strong enough to deal with it but in League One you have to be a bit more realistic about the type of players we have.

 

[MalvernBlade]

Sorry fellow Blades, but it is our fault. After going to a number of present season games & watching the bradf

 

[MalvernBlade]

Order game, turning up in numbers &

 

[MalvernBlade]

New phone required

 

[Revolution]

Our fans have been brought up on hoof and don't realise the games moved on. A string of passes is moaned at, anyone who tries and fails something inventive is moaned at. It's no coincidence some of the best footballing sides come from "friendly" home grounds, ie Swansea.
The players should be strong enough to deal with it but in League One you have to be a bit more realistic about the type of players we have.

Another myth. The Swansea crowd is friendly because they are good. When they were shite, they just didn't bother showing up at all.

It's not how you play, it's whether you win.

And there's nothing inventive about playing 20 odd games in a season in midfield for no goals and one assist.

 

[AlienBlade]

What do you suggest, applauding misplaced passes?

For whatever reason the last 2.5 games we've not gone out on the front foot.

It's the old "blame the fans thread" we get every time things aren't going to plan. ITS NOT THE FEKIN FANS FAULT

do you need to boo a misplaced pass? do you need to gnarl at a player who does it... is there not a third of fourth option... other than applauding it... how many times during the Warnock years did we simply here the roar "COME ON!!!"

The thing is every time things are not going to plan.... there is a common theme... the fans are on the players backs...... so is it mere coincidnece? another problem is for example booing McEverley 10 minutes in to a game after a couple of misplace passes... even if you dislike McEverley.. maybe Billy Sharp is a good buddy of his... maybe he thinks it's a little harsh so subconciously affects his game.... so knocking one player may have a domino affect on the others... (after all onces a scape goat has gone they all know they could be the next)

I wonder if you are a parent at all? for me Fans can be very much the "parents" in this and the players "the children"

when a child mis reads a word in a book or mis spells a word... does it do them any good bawling at them... will they get it right next time or will they suffer with anxiety due to fearing a similar outcome?

so when a player misplaces a pass - should we moan and groan, scream and shout dissent.... or attempt to raise them up so they feel that they can keep trying (I mean I would sooner that they tried to play that pass than not at all... which is currently what appears to be happening... 90% of the players on the pitch seem to be scared to take responsibility... it's not becuase they are not good enough... it's becuase they are scared of the repurcussions if they do so.

I use Chris Porter as a huge example of what positive reinforcement can do.... during Aston Villa game fans cheered his name, (yes in some ways it was a form of sarcastic irony.... but in that game he was immense... the fans got behind him... he played better... Porter was no world beater so say he was a 5/10 and the fans positive reinforcement pushed him to a 7/10.... imagine what doing the same to players who are already 6's or 7's...

 

[AlienBlade]

Another myth. The Swansea crowd is friendly because they are good. When they were shite, they just didn't bother showing up at all.

It's not how you play, it's whether you win.

And there's nothing inventive about playing 20 odd games in a season in midfield for no goals and one assist.

not always the case... I remember losing 4-0 to Scunny at home a few seasons back... we must have battered them seven ways from Sunday... yet they managed not just 1 goals but 4 from their 4 chances... EVERYONE was still supporting the team as they looked like they still wanted the game... positivity feeds positivity... but when there is little on the pitch... sometimes as fans we need to give them that nudge.. I mean surely it's for our benifit... why would be be so stubborn as to cut off our own nose to spite our faces.... (the whole well if they arent going to perform I'm not going to sing) only ones who really suffer are the fans... players will move on... so will managers.. so maybe we should make it our responsibilty to push players upwards rather than bring them down?

 

[Revolution]

not always the case... I remember losing 4-0 to Scunny at home a few seasons back... we must have battered them seven ways from Sunday... yet they managed not just 1 goals but 4 from their 4 chances... EVERYONE was still supporting the team as they looked like they still wanted the game... positivity feeds positivity... but when there is little on the pitch... sometimes as fans we need to give them that nudge.. I mean surely it's for our benifit... why would be be so stubborn as to cut off our own nose to spite our faces.... (the whole well if they arent going to perform I'm not going to sing) only ones who really suffer are the fans... players will move on... so will managers.. so maybe we should make it our responsibilty to push players upwards rather than bring them down?

Oh yes, the communal masturbation resulting from one the worst results in our history. Proof positive that you can pass 1000 times a game and it'll get you nowhere if you don't finish.

What did that positivity achieve? Nothing. That team let us down time and time again and got relegated. There were many players under performing. Our positivity made not one jot of difference.

 

[AlienBlade]

Oh yes, the communal masturbation resulting from one the worst results in our history. Proof positive that you can pass 1000 times a game and it'll get you nowhere if you don't finish.

What did that positivity achieve? Nothing. That team let us down time and time again and got relegated. There were many players under performing. Our positivity made not one jot of difference.

that game wasnt about the result, it also wasnt about the lack of effort... we had 20 shots 9 of which were on target (hardly the passing but getting no-where) you do get games like this (and could be said is the exception that proves the rule..)

if we expand your theory... it would be like saying when we win having had 1 shot on goal and defended like crazy with the opposition having had 30 shots... we should do it every game as we won like it once... (I think thats what we had under Weir... that worked right...)

Nottingham Forest Play Off game... we were losing.... down and out... did the crowd boo and hiss at every mis placed pass... no they instead cheered on the team... I cant think what happened in thats game....

Leeds Losing going into injury time.... commentators were apparently writing us off... the fans roared on the team.... I cant think what happened in that game either...

there are many examples where positivity actualy won out... which far outweighs the times when it didnt....

but as fans we are the only ones who suffer.... so WE have the option... get behind the team on the off chance that this works... (what do we have to lose... I mean clearly getting on their backs for the past 5 years has reaped massive rewards hasnt it.... Oh wait...)

if it works... then the Fans get what they want... if it doesnt what have the fans actually lost that they wouldnt have lost in the past 5 years....

 

[Blade56]

do you need to boo a misplaced pass?

Didn't say I booed just saying I don't cheer my head off at misplaced passes

...the fans are on the players backs...... so is it mere coincidnece?

The fans just went quiet because the players were performing like a over sixties walking football team, are you trying to reinforce your premise that they are playing like that because of the mean miserable fans?

Boohoo Billy can't play very well because his mates having a bad game cause the horrible fans are upset with his misplaced passes.

Yes I have children and they have turned out very well so I don't need your parenting advice thanks!

In fact the fans are that bad the players are "scared to take responsibility" then what are they doing on the fekin pitch?


And your example of Chris Porter really supports your case to blame the fans as he has gone on to much greater things.... Oh wait a minute......

Your hypothesis that it's the Fans fault we have been playing so bad has so many holes in it its laughable.

I say again it's NOT THE FANS FAULT when the players put a shift in we are the most vocal fans there are

 

[Harry's Game]

Yes it's our fault, the fans that we are stuck in League one with no obvious sign it's going to change soon.. slap our hands for being naughty.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

While not the mentality of all, there are significant numbers of our fans that probably have the Abraham Simpson approach to encouragement:

 

[coaxingstar71]

This myth was promulgated on here last season too, but thankfully stopped after the Gillingham game in January when the away crowd let the team know how bad their display was.

And anyone who thinks our away crowd is "better" obviously wasn't at the Gillingham game this season.

All crowds boo poor performances and lack of effort. If the players don't like it, play better.

Nice word Rev!

Anyway, that's why I choose my words carefully - overall - in other words, not every game, but generally, on the whole.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I don’t think we are any worse than any fans would be if they’d been watching their club so baldy underachieve for 5 years.

I think our fans are usually quite forgiving of lack of ability as long as it’s compensated for in bloody-mindedness, bravery and effort (Booker, Rogers, Monty, Morgs etc). What we don’t forgive and tend to become very angry about collectively is lack of fight, effort, determination etc. Although I will concede, since the Prem season, we have had a contingent of support that demands more than those qualities. Monty has been derided more, as was Cresswell etc.

I was only a nipper but to the best of my recollection, when we didn’t win a game til December in the top flight under Bassett, our fans were still right behind the team. That was because the players were giving their all and just coming up against better opposition. But whilst we’re in this league getting out fought and out worked by inferior teams, the fans will get angry. I actually thought our fans were great against Colchester and was equally surprised by the “We love United” chant at 2-0. Was great to see and hear.

I agree with those who say the players need to take responsibility and step up, work hard enough and play on the front foot.

All that being said, I think the fans can have an effect on the players (positive or negative) and I personally try to be as supportive as possible as I believe that way, I am doing everything I can to try to ensure the success of the team on the pitch. I’d like to see everyone doing the same but I completely understand the frustrations and don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to voice it if they so wish.

I try not to get on the players back but I have on rare occasions where I have felt extremely angry about the attitude being exhibited. Examples that spring to mind are the extremely gutless performance in the cup replay against Preston last year and the Bradford home game last year when despite them being down to 10 men and us being at home, we decided to waste time to play for the draw. Both of those instances absolutely boiled my piss and I couldn’t keep it in. But if I see players trying to win football matches and coming up short, they will always have my support although I will still come on here and have my say about those players that I don’t think are good enough and need replacing.

Really good post.

 

[Woodwardfan]

My bit of fun my Lord. I'll add the smiley next time ........

 

[Revolution]

A bit of abuse can have a positive effect anyway.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating in this context: I well remember myself, my brother, my Dad and my Dad's mate verbally abusing Glyn Hodges for mailing it in during the 3rd round cup tie against Luton in 1992 - if anyone thinks Jose Baxter is lazy, you should have seen this performance. We annoyed him so much that he actually took the trouble to snap out of his torpor and give us the lead with a good shot after beating a defender with a fancy piece of control, after which he made a point of gesturing to us and mouthing an obscenity.

So there you go - a successfully delivered kick up the backside. Abuse works.

Obviously, if you did this to one of our tiny midifielders they'd probably cry.

 

[DiggerBlade]

I can see where your coming from with that comment there Revolution which does make sense. Having a pop at a player can have a positive effect if praise is also given afterwards in equal measure. One thing the Blades faithful love is seeing 100% commitment on the pitch.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

A bit of abuse can have a positive effect anyway.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating in this context: I well remember myself, my brother, my Dad and my Dad's mate verbally abusing Glyn Hodges for mailing it in during the 3rd round cup tie against Luton in 1992 - if anyone thinks Jose Baxter is lazy, you should have seen this performance. We annoyed him so much that he actually took the trouble to snap out of his torpor and give us the lead with a good shot after beating a defender with a fancy piece of control, after which he made a point of gesturing to us and mouthing an obscenity.

So there you go - a successfully delivered kick up the backside. Abuse works.

Obviously, if you did this to one of our tiny midifielders they'd probably cry.

Surely depends on the mentality/character of the player. And for an experienced pro like Hodges, that might have worked. It probably works less well on the less experienced and less mentally strong, to the point of being detrimental.

 

[Revolution]

Surely depends on the mentality/character of the player. And for an experienced pro like Hodges, that might have worked. It probably works less well on the less experienced and less mentally strong, to the point of being detrimental.

Oh yes. Ryan Flynn would burst into tears or something. I wouldn't want to offend his delicate sensibilities by suggesting he might want to try beating a man once in a while.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Sorry fellow Blades, but it is our fault. After going to a number of present season games & watching the bradf

Order game, turning up in numbers &

New phone required

Well that went well.

 

[Woodwardfan]

A bit of abuse can have a positive effect anyway.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating in this context: I well remember myself, my brother, my Dad and my Dad's mate verbally abusing Glyn Hodges for mailing it in during the 3rd round cup tie against Luton in 1992 - if anyone thinks Jose Baxter is lazy, you should have seen this performance. We annoyed him so much that he actually took the trouble to snap out of his torpor and give us the lead with a good shot after beating a defender with a fancy piece of control, after which he made a point of gesturing to us and mouthing an obscenity.

So there you go - a successfully delivered kick up the backside. Abuse works.

Obviously, if you did this to one of our tiny midifielders they'd probably cry.

I wonder if tiny men do cry more than big men in fact? They are all men and big men have feelings too.

How big are you Revolution? I'm 5'9" and do get more emotional these days I have to say, usually about positive things though.

 

[Rodley]

that game wasnt about the result, it also wasnt about the lack of effort... we had 20 shots 9 of which were on target (hardly the passing but getting no-where) you do get games like this (and could be said is the exception that proves the rule..)

if we expand your theory... it would be like saying when we win having had 1 shot on goal and defended like crazy with the opposition having had 30 shots... we should do it every game as we won like it once... (I think thats what we had under Weir... that worked right...)

Nottingham Forest Play Off game... we were losing.... down and out... did the crowd boo and hiss at every mis placed pass... no they instead cheered on the team... I cant think what happened in thats game....

Leeds Losing going into injury time.... commentators were apparently writing us off... the fans roared on the team.... I cant think what happened in that game either...

there are many examples where positivity actualy won out... which far outweighs the times when it didnt....

but as fans we are the only ones who suffer.... so WE have the option... get behind the team on the off chance that this works... (what do we have to lose... I mean clearly getting on their backs for the past 5 years has reaped massive rewards hasnt it.... Oh wait...)

if it works... then the Fans get what they want... if it doesnt what have the fans actually lost that they wouldnt have lost in the past 5 years....

On a forum where some real criticism is dished out, sometimes very nasty and personal, I'm surprised some are so sensitive about supporters being self-critical.

 

[Revolution]

How big are you Revolution

Very big indeed

 

[Sean Thornton]

A bit of abuse can have a positive effect anyway.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating in this context: I well remember myself, my brother, my Dad and my Dad's mate verbally abusing Glyn Hodges for mailing it in during the 3rd round cup tie against Luton in 1992 - if anyone thinks Jose Baxter is lazy, you should have seen this performance. We annoyed him so much that he actually took the trouble to snap out of his torpor and give us the lead with a good shot after beating a defender with a fancy piece of control, after which he made a point of gesturing to us and mouthing an obscenity.

So there you go - a successfully delivered kick up the backside. Abuse works.

Obviously, if you did this to one of our tiny midifielders they'd probably cry.

Cool story.

How many times have you four worked your magic on other players over the years?

 

[Revolution]

Cool story.

How many times have you four worked your magic on other players over the years?

We don't sit together as a group any more, sadly. We should re unite and yell at McEverley.