The McCabe issue

[Darthblade]

We all keep talking about the Club's debt and how many millions the Club owes to McCabe but I, for one, am not happy to just accept that.

Yes, he has invested some of his own money into the Club, but he did that with his eyes wide open. How many Clubs make a profit? Very few in the whole world. He told us he was a "massive blade" (opologies for the use of a pig related phrase) and had the best interests of the Club at heart. Now I don't know if he was bullshitting at the time or has just lost interest since the Premiership fiasco, but he certainly has NOT had the best interests of the Club at the centre of his thinking for the past few years.

I have been a committed blades fan for over 47 years now and I have made a "not insignificant" investment of my own into the Club during this period, if we include tickets, merchandise, cost of travelling etc. My relative wealth compared to McCabe IS insignificant and therefore I consider MY investment has been comparable relatively to McCabe. I, like most other committed blades, would not think of suggesting that I expect to recoup any or all of my investment in the Club. I cannot therfore see why McCabe should expect to recoup ANY significant porton of his CHOSEN investment in the Club.

This, I believe, is particularly pertinent when we consider that it is largely as a result of McCabe's disastarous managerial appointments that the majority of these "debts" have accumulated. Why should the Club and the supporters pay for his mistakes and errors. We each have to pay for our own errors and so should he !! McCabe has, without a shred of doubt, been a complete "car crash" where managerial appointmens are concerned. The pressure that should be applied, in my opinion, should be for him to take appropriate responsibility for his woeful inadequacies in his "duty of care" for the Club and to cancel the "supposed debt" owed to him by the Club and therefore accept HIS share of the responsibility for our current predicament.

This, would be an approriate goal for any protestations to be directed towards and will test, once and for all, IF McCabe is really a "massive blade" and IF he has the best interests of the Club at heart or its it ALL just a load of bullshit from him.

UTB

 

[borbokis]

I think over the coming months/years pressure will start to mount on McCabe to write off the debt. There is no way out of this situation unless he does that in my opinion.

No one wants to buy us whilst we still owe McCabe millions. He's living in a dreamland if he excpects SUFC to generate even a fraction of the money we owe him.

Unless in fact he isn't losing money and that's just what he wants everyone to think. (disclaimer: I don't see how this is possible it just seems odd that he has to put in x amount every month to pay the bills etc. out of his own pocket. We're just getting further and further into debt with no foreseeable way to pay it back. It just seems odd that he doesn't just cut and run rather than throwing even more dosh down the pan)

 

[Large Mendonca]

I remember around 2010 we had the club annual statement of accounts that we would hopefully be debt free and self sufficient in 3 years. I know things haven't gone exactly to that plan and we haven't cut the wage bill how we would have liked, but surely from that statement we can't have that much debt ?

 

[Bladesman]

Well there is obviously enough debt to put off anyone wanting to takeover.

Seems odd a lot of clubs over the last 5 years have managed to be taken over. True apart from the stupid ones ala portsmouth and cardiff. Yet we have barely had a sniff of a take over I mean even Father Christmas managed to offload L**ds United.

All McCabe has managed is some Nigerian who might invest a pound eventually.

 

[BladeFisher]

I remember around 2010 we had the club annual statement of accounts that we would hopefully be debt free and self sufficient in 3 years. I know things haven't gone exactly to that plan and we haven't cut the wage bill how we would have liked, but surely from that statement we can't have that much debt ?

It would be really useful if McCabe called a Blades fans day and people could quiz him directly on these matters. I had in mind a sort of conference. Fans could group themselves into various stands and speak to the conference. Obviously we dont want a slanging match but clearly on here there are the Bladoptimists e.g. sitwell, swiss, judge the PissedoffBlades Metal, superpig, Fiery and the Déjà vu Blades of which I am one who can see a rather sad inevitability to what is happening.

Perhaps Foxy could arrange if there was support for it.

 

[blade too long]

deloitte touche accounts are interesting


our income from gates has been a fairly constant 8 to .10 million a year for a decade
our wage bill# outgoings went from 8#10 mill for 2003 to 2006
to 2006 7 £26 MILL
7 8 24 MILL
2008 09 20 MILL
THEN 18 16 14,5
SO OVER SPEND ON WAGES alone is 58 ,5 million

that does not include losses on players like 3 m on ched
2 million on beattie
1 mill on fathi
1 million on pay offs to blackwell and Speed
thats around 63 million
around 17 million on ground improvements = 80 million over last decade and 3 million on world cup bid

yes he must be quids in
profits on players overall about 14 million over 10 years , parachute 16 mill = 30 mill in

 

[stannyblade]

We got compo for Speed not payoff. Do you mean Adams

 

[ThatJa]

You also forgot to put in the West Hame money which was around £25million. Taking it to £55million

 

[alcoblade]

deloitte touche accounts are interesting


our income from gates has been a fairly constant 8 to .10 million a year for a decade
our wage bill# outgoings went from 8#10 mill for 2003 to 2006
to 2006 7 £26 MILL
7 8 24 MILL
2008 09 20 MILL
THEN 18 16 14,5
SO OVER SPEND ON WAGES alone is 58 ,5 million

that does not include losses on players like 3 m on ched
2 million on beattie
1 mill on fathi
1 million on pay offs to blackwell and Speed
thats around 63 million
around 17 million on ground improvements = 80 million over last decade and 3 million on world cup bid

yes he must be quids in
profits on players overall about 14 million over 10 years , parachute 16 mill = 30 mill in

Which ground improvements cost £17m? We've filled a corner in and re roofed the away end. I Know McCabe can turn Gold into shit, but surely that's pushing it?

UTB

 

[metalblade]

They put a roof on the kop bogs

 

[madeinsheffield]

Jags £4m, Kyles £10m, Blackman £1m+ without thinking about any others??

 

[davidpinder]

We all keep talking about the Club's debt and how many millions the Club owes to McCabe but I, for one, am not happy to just accept that.

Yes, he has invested some of his own money into the Club, but he did that with his eyes wide open. How many Clubs make a profit? Very few in the whole world. He told us he was a "massive blade" (opologies for the use of a pig related phrase) and had the best interests of the Club at heart. Now I don't know if he was bullshitting at the time or has just lost interest since the Premiership fiasco, but he certainly has NOT had the best interests of the Club at the centre of his thinking for the past few years.

I have been a committed blades fan for over 47 years now and I have made a "not insignificant" investment of my own into the Club during this period, if we include tickets, merchandise, cost of travelling etc. My relative wealth compared to McCabe IS insignificant and therefore I consider MY investment has been comparable relatively to McCabe. I, like most other committed blades, would not think of suggesting that I expect to recoup any or all of my investment in the Club. I cannot therfore see why McCabe should expect to recoup ANY significant porton of his CHOSEN investment in the Club.

This, I believe, is particularly pertinent when we consider that it is largely as a result of McCabe's disastarous managerial appointments that the majority of these "debts" have accumulated. Why should the Club and the supporters pay for his mistakes and errors. We each have to pay for our own errors and so should he !! McCabe has, without a shred of doubt, been a complete "car crash" where managerial appointmens are concerned. The pressure that should be applied, in my opinion, should be for him to take appropriate responsibility for his woeful inadequacies in his "duty of care" for the Club and to cancel the "supposed debt" owed to him by the Club and therefore accept HIS share of the responsibility for our current predicament.

This, would be an approriate goal for any protestations to be directed towards and will test, once and for all, IF McCabe is really a "massive blade" and IF he has the best interests of the Club at heart or its it ALL just a load of bullshit from him.

UTB

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[metalblade]

Jags £4m, Kyles £10m, Blackman £1m+ without thinking about any others??

Blade too long does like to manipulate stats to suit his agenda ......

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

 

[Barney Rubble]

Maybe he should have heeded the warning :
The value of your investments may go down as well as up.

McCabe was responsible for authorising these increases in the wage budget, purchase of foreign clubs, building of hotels etc. and he would have been in a position to reap the rewards if the decisions paid off. If he now wants to sell then surely he is guilty of grossly overvaluing his assets which is why he can't find a purchaser.

And if he's failed to benefit from the decisions then neither have the fans. Sponsorship moneys dried up, TV moneys gone so we're the only ones left paying either via gate receipts or having to watch our best players sold off and then scratching around finding replacements for peanuts

 

[Ted Danson]

It would be really useful if McCabe called a Blades fans day and people could quiz him directly on these matters. I had in mind a sort of conference. Fans could group themselves into various stands and speak to the conference. Obviously we dont want a slanging match but clearly on here there are the Bladoptimists e.g. sitwell, swiss, judge the PissedoffBlades Metal, superpig, Fiery and the Déjà vu Blades of which I am one who can see a rather sad inevitability to what is happening.

Perhaps Foxy could arrange if there was support for it.

Couldnt you just do that at the AGM? or even raise it at the fans forum?

The problem is all the people who moan about this the loudest dont even bother going to them to raise the questions.

 

[BladeFisher]

Couldnt you just do that at the AGM? or even raise it at the fans forum?

The problem is all the people who moan about this the loudest dont even bother going to them to raise the questions.

Well an AGM is a bit too formal. I think it needs to be quite professionally done and most work done beforehand so it does not turn into anarchy.

 

[alcoblade]

Couldnt you just do that at the AGM? or even raise it at the fans forum?

The problem is all the people who moan about this the loudest dont even bother going to them to raise the questions.

The trouble with all these things is that its literally Q and A, singular. So they answer in whatever way they like, and it moves on to the next issue without comeback. They never seem to drill down to any substance.

A Q and A with a narrow remit of "analysing the finances" or similar would be interesting.

UTB

 

[Sothall_Blade]

deloitte touche accounts are interesting


our income from gates has been a fairly constant 8 to .10 million a year for a decade
our wage bill# outgoings went from 8#10 mill for 2003 to 2006
to 2006 7 £26 MILL
7 8 24 MILL
2008 09 20 MILL
THEN 18 16 14,5
SO OVER SPEND ON WAGES alone is 58 ,5 million

that does not include losses on players like 3 m on ched
2 million on beattie
1 mill on fathi
1 million on pay offs to blackwell and Speed
thats around 63 million
around 17 million on ground improvements = 80 million over last decade and 3 million on world cup bid

yes he must be quids in
profits on players overall about 14 million over 10 years , parachute 16 mill = 30 mill in

An interesting post BTL but some of those figures seem way out. Have you got a link to those that you're quoting?

Surely the income from gates must have fluctuated by more than you say when we had an average of 30,000+ in The Premiership and as low as 18,000 before and after?
You mention the parachute payments of £16M but you haven't included the extra money we received while actually in The Premiership. Most estimates talk about winning the Play-Off Final being worth £50M+, so that would be another £34M (TV money, prize money, Sponsorship etc) on top of the £16M parachute payments.
The wage bill figures you quote don't sound quite right either as our wage bill actually went up in 2007-2008 when McCabe allowed Robson to pay the big wages that he'd denied Warnock.
There's also the £25M compensation from West Ham that somebody else mentioned.

 

[blade too long]

You also forgot to put in the West Hame money which was around £25million. Taking it to £55million

when we get it , they are paying in bits

 

[blade too long]

Jags £4m, Kyles £10m, Blackman £1m+ without thinking about any others??

funny how no one mentions buying davis 4m beattie 4 m ched 3 mill craig beattie 1 mill howard 1 million
fathi 1, 5 mill danny webber -5million pesch 250k nade around a million and fees arouns 250 -1 million for
hulse stead , kabba bromby kilgallon unsworth tonge armstrong geary , even 600k on leigertwood and luton shelton
funny how we always forget the buys
only remember who we sold which is said by some to go straight into mcabes pockets , well who bought the above

 

[Rodders]

I remember around 2010 we had the club annual statement of accounts that we would hopefully be debt free and self sufficient in 3 years. I know things haven't gone exactly to that plan and we haven't cut the wage bill how we would have liked, but surely from that statement we can't have that much debt ?

I'm assuming those plans were on the proviso we would stay a Championship team, and not take the financial hit of relegation to Lg 1, and the fiasco of 4 managers in 1 season with th accumulated pay-offs etc.

 

[blade too long]

Which ground improvements cost £17m? We've filled a corner in and re roofed the away end. I Know McCabe can turn Gold into shit, but surely that's pushing it?

UTB

we actually had to pay for john street stand, did you think it was put up for free, and 17 miillion since 1999 is a very conservative estimate on ground improvement / maintenance, been 4 pitches worth 2 million

 

[raul]

I don't think we paid 5 million for Danny Webber.

 

[blade too long]

we actually had to pay for john street stand, did you think it was put up for free, and 17 miillion since 1999 is a very conservative estimate on ground improvement / maintenance, been 4 pitches worth 2 million

all new entrances and gated electronic entry , wasnt £50 from wickes

 

[blade too long]

I don't think we paid 5 million for Danny Webber.

thats why its .5 million
but be petty and try and ignore the fact we actually spent a load on players over the past decade
it makes the mccabe only takes argument much stronger if you deny he ever bought anyone

 

[Rodders]

I don't think we paid 5 million for Danny Webber.

14m for Craig Beattie seems a bit on the high side too.

 

[raul]

thats why its .5 million
but be petty and try and ignore the fact we actually spent a load on players over the past decade
it makes the mccabe only takes argument much stronger if you deny he ever bought anyone

Please quote the post I've made on the thread where I've denied we've spent a load on players.

 

[blade too long]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/01/15/uk-soccer-england-shelton-idUKL1535783720070115

no one ever brings stuff like this up , frivolous spending on luxury players

 

[Balham]

when we get it , they are paying in bits

All of which is classed as income when it was decided. The cashflow aspect doesn't alter when it was recognised in the P&L, just where it's recognised in the balance sheet.

funny how no one mentions buying davis 4m beattie 4 m ched 3 mill craig beattie 1 mill howard 1 million
fathi 1, 5 mill danny webber -5million pesch 250k nade around a million and fees arouns 250 -1 million for
hulse stead , kabba bromby kilgallon unsworth tonge armstrong geary , even 600k on leigertwood and luton shelton
funny how we always forget the buys
only remember who we sold which is said by some to go straight into mcabes pockets , well who bought the above

Talk about twisting the facts to suit your argument! There's always debate about transfer fees but:

Ones you've understated:
Hulse: £2.2m, sold for £1.75m
Kilgallon: £1.75m in, sold for £500k
Shelton: £1.85m(!) but we sold him to Valerenga for £1m.

Ones you've got right:
James Beattie: £4m, sold to Stoke £3.5m
Evans: in £3m but I thought at least some of the fee was success dependent?
Stead: £750k but sold to Ipswich for £600k
Kabba: £250k, sold to Watford for £500k
Leigertwood: £600k, sold to QPR for £900k
Webber: £500k.

Ones you've got quite wrong:
Brian Howard: £500k, sold to Reading for £500k
Fathi: £700k

Ones you've got really wrong:
Claude Davis: In £2.5m - £1.5m less than you said. We also sold him to Derby for £3m
Craig Beattie: in on loan, maybe £100k? Nowhere near the £1m you've said
Nade: £0 (free transfer). Not a £1m player.
Unsworth: £0
Bromby: £0
Geary: £50k
Armstrong: £100k, sold to Reading for £500k
Tonge: came through our youth system
Over the years we've made far more money from transfers than we've spent but that has all gone on paying the wage bill.

Ones you've forgotten:
Naysmith: £1m
Akinbiyi: £1.75m (yes, really)

The upshot is that we've only really spent (net) more than £1m on Evans, Kilgannon, Akinbiyi and Naysmith in the past 10 years. Those four total £7m net spend; through selling Jagielka, Walker, Naughton, Tonge, Mellis and Slew we've recovered £18m.