The Leasehold of Bramall Lane

[judge]

Would I be correct in thinking that this piece of prime city centre real estate is owned solely by McCabe and the Scaroborough Property Group?

Leads me to think that now Sheffield United football are tenants of the Scarborough Property Group, how much would the going rate for a lease on a modern, 33,000 seater, ground located in a prime, city centre location? Can't be cheap can it?

75p a week

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

Who was it who made all the stupid half brained decisions such as Blades Realty, Chengdu Blades, our global network and all that stuff that has loaded debt on to the club?

I don't think that the principal idea behind Chengdu was a bad one. It is easy to say after, when it hasn't worked, that it was stupid and half brained. Us, as a Premier League team, with our own team in the biggest market in the world, it could have been huge and McCabe would be a genius. He was trying something different so that our income wasn't just dependent on one source....shoot the guy for trying

 

[wizadry]

Will someone point me in the right direction if any of this is wrong?

McCabe got us into quite a big debt through bad decisions, he then sold our ground to one of his companies, now why do we find ourselves as a football club not owning our own ground when it's his fault we find ourselves in this delicate position in the first place? If we stay in this tier any longer does anyone really feel that McCabe will give the ground back if this is true? And why should he take the ground in the first place if he was going to give it back? I honestly don't get it and would love some answers.

 

[Rodley]

Accountancy isn't my forte, but as I understand it McCabe wrote off the debts accumulated by the club. In fact on here people were commending KMc as a legend for it. That said we probably lost the following match and the world fell apart...

The alternative use value of the ground is not significant; it's probably commensurate to one years salary of a handful of squad players.

Don't forget football clubs run at a loss, even with selling off their players. Where did the money come for ground improvements, who built the academy and subsidises it's running costs?

In the past three seasons we've made 29 permanent signings. TWENTY NINE!

 

[metalblade]

Will someone point me in the right direction if any of this is wrong?

McCabe got us into quite a big debt through bad decisions, he then sold our ground to one of his companies, now why do we find ourselves as a football club not owning our own ground when it's his fault we find ourselves in this delicate position in the first place? If we stay in this tier any longer does anyone really feel that McCabe will give the ground back if this is true? And why should he take the ground in the first place if he was going to give it back? I honestly don't get it and would love some answers.

It's called asset stripping

 

[metalblade]

Accountancy isn't my forte, but as I understand it McCabe wrote off the debts accumulated by the club. In fact on here people were commending KMc as a legend for it. That said we probably lost the following match and the world fell apart...

The alternative use value of the ground is not significant; it's probably commensurate to one years salary of a handful of squad players.

Don't forget football clubs run at a loss, even with selling off their players. Where did the money come for ground improvements, who built the academy and subsidises it's running costs?

In the past three seasons we've made 29 permanent signings. TWENTY NINE!

So you really have to ask what is the point of the academy ?

 

[siblade]

McCabe owned the ground before, he still does.
Without his money we'd have probably gone under years ago.
The foreign clubs and diversification years ago was an attempt to bring in more revenue to the club, it was lauded by other chairmen at the time as the way to go for football clubs. The worlds economy went to shit, it screwed it all up, what else is there to say?
To say now, in hindsight it was half brained is frankly just ridiculous.
It hasn't worked out well for McCabe, he knows that, hence changing the strategy to bring someone else with money in.
Will he try and recoup some money if he can, course he will and so would anyone else. Will he do that at the expense of the club, I personally doubt it but no one apart from him actually knows.

 

[Worksop II]

The worlds economy went to shit, it screwed it all up, what else is there to say?

I think McCabes deal with Valad went tits up long before the recent World Recession

You could say, McCabe lead the way where Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling followed, trailblazer our Kev

I always like the bit where it is stated the Real Estate will be folded back into the Club when we get into the Premiership

Bought out for £1 - going back in, for lets say at this moment, more than £1

 

[diplomat]

Bert used to have his business premises inside his SIPP, so his pension fund charged Bert plc rent for the use of the premises. A very tax efficient method of putting money into your pension fund.

That's why Bradford pay over a million quid on their rent each year (not because it's in Bert's pension but the ex-owner's) because there can be no discretion from the individual, the pension determines the market rate to charge. . . . Although having said that they're taking the piss in that example

 

[diplomat]

Will someone point me in the right direction if any of this is wrong?

McCabe got us into quite a big debt through bad decisions, he then sold our ground to one of his companies, now why do we find ourselves as a football club not owning our own ground when it's his fault we find ourselves in this delicate position in the first place? If we stay in this tier any longer does anyone really feel that McCabe will give the ground back if this is true? And why should he take the ground in the first place if he was going to give it back? I honestly don't get it and would love some answers.

Bit by bit the McCabe family are taking segments of the ground. Income stream development for the football club is the premise. Then "well it wasn't working so the family have taken the burden to help the club" is the line spun. The result is the offices and the hotel are on club land but offer no benefit to the club in terms of current or future revenue as they are owned by the McCabes. The hotel really winds me up as it is the dominant structure as I approach the ground and it's not ours.

To answer: no I don't think he will give anything back

 

[JJ Sefton]

I hope you are right but everything about today's game tells me to never say never.

Sheffield United will never win owt.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think McCabes deal with Valad went tits up long before the recent World Recession

You could say, McCabe lead the way where Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling followed, trailblazer our Kev

I always like the bit where it is stated the Real Estate will be folded back into the Club when we get into the Premiership

Bought out for £1 - going back in, for lets say at this moment, more than £1

£1?

Wasn't it around £25 million borrowings that went with it?

 

[Rodley]

£1?

Wasn't it around £25 million borrowings that went with it?

Ah but if he sells the ground for £5 million, buys some land at Don Valley for £2 million and has to fork out £30 million to build a new ground there he'll definitely be up.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

beightonblade this one has your name on it, old chap...

Very disappointed. Clicked onto this thread thinking the mardy old bugger was back in town. Alas beightonblade still

 

[Sean Thornton]

Ah but if he sells the ground for £5 million, buys some land at Don Valley for £2 million and has to fork out £30 million to build a new ground there he'll definitely be up.

Mcabonomics!

 

[Rodley]

Mcabonomics!

Haha!

 

[Bert]

That's why Bradford pay over a million quid on their rent each year (not because it's in Bert's pension but the ex-owner's) because there can be no discretion from the individual, the pension determines the market rate to charge. . . . Although having said that they're taking the piss in that example

You can't take the piss with the rent, it's not a case of think of a number then treble it. The pensions regulators keep a close eye on things like that, as you probably know.

 

[wizadry]

For those who answered my questions thank you.

Why then does the man who runs the club need to start taking assets from the club when it's his fault in the first place? I know chairmen and women don't really make anything from football clubs but it stinks to high heaven that he's taking things from our club when it sounds to me that there is no real need to do so, when if all he wants to do is write his own debt off he could do so without taking anything? Or does he want to make money out of us? There must be a reason but i for one can't see why and do appreciate the answers given.

 

[blade too long]

So nobody wants to even hazard a guess about how much Sheffield United are paying the Scarborough Property Group for the lease of the ground and training facilities? Indeed even questioning this means the more loony of the clapper are getting their knickers in a twist that anyone could even ask questions of their favourite property group?

a pound 50 k 600k 1,5 m

makes no odds it all goes back into the club
all they are doing is accounting to help in areas of tax

mccabe is ,,this is for fucking morons ,,
not screwing the club

 

[siblade]

For those who answered my questions thank you.

Why then does the man who runs the club need to start taking assets from the club when it's his fault in the first place? I know chairmen and women don't really make anything from football clubs but it stinks to high heaven that he's taking things from our club when it sounds to me that there is no real need to do so, when if all he wants to do is write his own debt off he could do so without taking anything? Or does he want to make money out of us? There must be a reason but i for one can't see why and do appreciate the answers given.

My view is that he is protecting his assets, for example there was no way he was going to let anyone have a stake in the club for a £1 if it included property. It also made it a simpler proposition for someone wanting to invest in a team with the potential riches (ie premier league) that brings.

There are almost certainly accounting reasons for all these things too, I'm not qualified to comment on their impact on the club so won't.

Of course he's trying to make money out of us and so is the prince, but I don't think that is their prime reason for owning and running the club. Why would anyone own a club and not want it to be profitable or self financing?

 

[wizadry]

Of course he's trying to make money out of us and so is the prince, but I don't think that is their prime reason for owning and running the club. Why would anyone own a club and not want it to be profitable or self financing?

Cheers. The point above was brought up due to people on here saying they don't make money out of the club and there are people saying it which i also find quite strange as surely he's making money somewhere along the line. Although the club being in debt at one point and him free of the debt he's caused is what i don't like and don't quite get why he gets away with it scot free.

 

[blade too long]

gets away with what , we got in deep debt after getting in the prem and not staying up as our wage bill grossly exceeded our income ,,,with the then inferior parachute payments which were woefully inadequate

he moved the debt about to save on fee payents
which is like consolidating
and has since cleared it all


if anyone thinks football clubs make money outside the prem they are gibbering idiots
in any one good year a club may turn a small profit , but its normally hard work to avoid going into the red
thats why clubs sell players to fill the shortfall

 

[blade too long]

on a factual note mccabe sold valad for 800 m 4 or so years ago
he was quoted last year as being worth 170 m now
so hes not getting rich off us , quite the opposite

 

[Worksop II]

the then inferior parachute payments which were woefully inadequate

I dont think the Parachute Payments were inadequate .............. more like the planning by the usual suspects

And I luv the "fuckin morons" and "gibbering idiots" you add at the end of your posts, luv it

 

[blade too long]

I dont think the Parachute Payments were inadequate .............. more like the planning by the usual suspects

And I luv the "fuckin morons" and "gibbering idiots" you add at the end of your posts, luv it

why werent they inadequate
they were for 32 m over 3 years 11 m a year
our wage bill was up to 26 then 19 and then 17
with income from tickets at 9 so 27 m against 72 m wages less 32m parachute =
13 shortfall over 3 seasons
so who was making money

thats before 6 m a year PAYE PAYMENTS the club is liable for TAX BILLS INSURANCES 3 M A YEAR POLICING AND STEWARDING COSTS

STILL THINK WE ARE BEING SCREWED

 

[wizadry]

gets away with what , we got in deep debt after getting in the prem and not staying up as our wage bill grossly exceeded our income ,,,with the then inferior parachute payments which were woefully inadequate

he moved the debt about to save on fee payents
which is like consolidating
and has since cleared it all


if anyone thinks football clubs make money outside the prem they are gibbering idiots

Who's we? Me, you or us through McCabe? I'm simply asking questions to find out more about why we don't own anything as a football club around our ground and the reasons for it. From what i've seen he has got us into debt then wiped it off by owning everything through one of his other companies, i was wondering whether we'd get any of these assets back especially while we're stuck in this league.

As for your lovely last couple of lines, anybody can make money out of a properly run buisness and it looks to me like McCabe is not short of a bob or two, i reckon the company that owns a lot of our assets now isn't struggling either, maybe they could lend us something and we could give it back when we achieve success

I'll not resort to what i really think of that last paragraph of yours

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'd suggest at the most he's trying to get some of his losses back albeit on a slow drip.
As for taking the assets, he took the borrowings to match. It's all in the accounts, it's all been done before yet still we have comments about asset stripping, buying the ground for £1, tax planning when the companies are losing money and the best, McCabes making money.
The football club is still losing money. Any ideas who is still funding that?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Who's we? Me, you or us through McCabe? I'm simply asking questions to find out more about why we don't own anything as a football club around our ground and the reasons for it. From what i've seen he has got us into debt then wiped it off by owning everything through one of his other companies, i was wondering whether we'd get any of these assets back especially while we're stuck in this league.

As for your lovely last couple of lines, anybody can make money out of a properly run buisness and it looks to me like McCabe is not short of a bob or two, i reckon the company that owns a lot of our assets now isn't struggling either, maybe they could lend us something and we could give it back when we achieve success

I'll not resort to what i really think of that last paragraph of yours

Do you know which company " owns" our assets? He effectively owned everything before the transfer out of the football club. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[Sean Thornton]

why werent they inadequate
they were for 32 m over 3 years 11 m a year
our wage bill was up to 26 then 19 and then 17
with income from tickets at 9 so 27 m against 72 m wages less 32m parachute =
13 shortfall over 3 seasons
so who was making money

thats before 6 m a year PAYE PAYMENTS the club is liable for TAX BILLS INSURANCES 3 M A YEAR POLICING AND STEWARDING COSTS

STILL THINK WE ARE BEING SCREWED

We knew what the parachute payments were. We overspent massively. That was down to KMc letting Turry and the Alky have the cheque book. Nothing to do with inadequacy.

 

[bricktop]

a pound 50 k 600k 1,5 m

makes no odds it all goes back into the club
all they are doing is accounting to help in areas of tax

mccabe is ,,this is for fucking morons ,,
not screwing the club

How do you know it is all going back in to the club, and helping to account when it comes to area of tax?