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Gavlar

Gavlar

eternal pessimist
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So I remember a lot of folks on here saying the reason we tailed off and we’re so bad in the second Wilder season was our fans weren’t allowed in to watch games. Now fans are allowed in and we are worse than under Wilder does anyone still hold this view?
 

Gavlar said:
So I remember a lot of folks on here saying the reason we tailed off and we’re so bad in the second Wilder season was our fans weren’t allowed in to watch games. Now fans are allowed in and we are worse than under Wilder does anyone still hold this view?
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Yes, Covid cost us our Premier league status, you don't go from chasing Europe to relegation without due cause.
 
Gavlar said:
So I remember a lot of folks on here saying the reason we tailed off and we’re so bad in the second Wilder season was our fans weren’t allowed in to watch games. Now fans are allowed in and we are worse than under Wilder does anyone still hold this view?
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Fans can make a difference but not enough to cover for a team clearly NGE.

FWiW I don't think fans would have got us into Europe or kept us up the following season.

A few extra points at absolute best imho.
 
Gavlar said:
So I remember a lot of folks on here saying the reason we tailed off and we’re so bad in the second Wilder season was our fans weren’t allowed in to watch games. Now fans are allowed in and we are worse than under Wilder does anyone still hold this view?
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It didn't stop Liverpool from winning their first Premier League title so that's always been a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned. Anfield has one of the best match day atmospheres in football full stop. Why didn't it effect them?

We went down because we didn't score enough goals and recruited poorly for the second summer in a row. The season before we averaged a goal a game over the course of the season, but a solid defence and ability to retain possession delivered results despite this. The warning signs were there and that's why I predicted relegation after seeing the players that we brought in over the second summer. Greatest transfer window my arse!

Three poor transfer windows saw very few players come in who could challenge the Championship team who got us up. Every club strengthened their teams, we strengthend our squad, well added to our squad. You can't say that Lowe, Burke and Ampadu strengthened our squad. When the Championship team lost form there was no one good enough to replace them, hence why the Prince told Wilder he could stay on if we went down, but would have to work with a director or football who would sign players, not Wilder.

We also didn't have a Jack Grealish to sell for big money to fund our summer further. O'Connell was our best bet but he sadly got injured.

But yeah, no fans is why we went down. That's the real reason.
 
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John Cutsbushes said:
Yes, Covid cost us our Premier league status, you don't go from chasing Europe to relegation without due cause.
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Disagree.

Ramsdale was a poor overexpensive replacement for Henderson.

Brewster was an absolute waste of money

No credible signing in defence to cover O'Connell

No further development of signings in midfield after Berge.

No plan B when things weren't working

Continuing to play Lundstram

Everything that went wrong that season lies firmly at Wilders door. Using the lack of fans as an excuse is just covering for his failings.
 
Those two seasons aren't even comparable. One team would have qualified for Europe had it not been for covid. This one was always going down barring a miracle.

Notwithstanding any of that, the fans have never been behind the team to anything like the same extent this time around anyway, and weren't during the promotion season either.
 
Covid wasn't a factor it was same for both teams we battered Chelsea and Spurs behind closed doors. We went down because we were shit and Wilder couldn't change from his 3-5-2 formation and had no plan B other than to quit. The players who had the ride from league one were showing their age Fleck Norwood and a few others needed replacing yet they are still here, we can't play the same old faces from 2021 and expect a different result............... we are going down probably with less points than last time.
 
Having no fans in the stadium was definitely a factor during Covid & affected us more than most. Those small margins were a big factor for us in the 19/20 season. Without Covid & with momentum - we may well have made 6th or 7th plus I reckon we would have beaten Arsenal a Friday night FA Cup Qtr Final……..but we’ll never know! That season was amazing & so no one should be criticising Wilder for that.

However the transfers he made for 20/21 & his selections at times were as confusing as Hecky’s are now. Fans or no fans in the stadiums for that season would not have made much difference.
 
Gavlar said:
So I remember a lot of folks on here saying the reason we tailed off and we’re so bad in the second Wilder season was our fans weren’t allowed in to watch games. Now fans are allowed in and we are worse than under Wilder does anyone still hold this view?
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Never did mate
 
Gavlar said:
So I remember a lot of folks on here saying the reason we tailed off and we’re so bad in the second Wilder season was our fans weren’t allowed in to watch games. Now fans are allowed in and we are worse than under Wilder does anyone still hold this view?
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Yes. In the circumstances that existed with that part squad.
 

John Cutsbushes said:
Yes, Covid cost us our Premier league status, you don't go from chasing Europe to relegation without due cause.
Click to expand...
What bollocks for three months they played way above their own expectations not one but all 11 playing at a minimum 8 out of 10 performance
That started to drop after the newyear though we still scraped results
 
100% me being on Kop would have kept us up. The range I can hit whilst conjuring up a near note perfect rendition of “one of the worlds most famous football anthems” is worth 10 points at least.
 
People compare the 2 seasons, one where chasing a Champions league spot the other we’re relegated.

However it was all about fine margins.

1st season under Wilder, loads of evenly match games where we tended to win 1-0, if the opposition score we tended to win 2-1.
Think our keep possession style helped massively because it prevented the opposition building up a head of steam regards prolonged pressure.
Also Henderson was particularly impressive when having very little to do…then pulling off a match winning save that looked a certain goal.
We also had momentum due to manager and players all having an inner confidence genuinely believing they can any PL team.

2nd season under Wilder, again loads of evenly match games, the problem was the season long injury to JOC
and even our other overlapping centre back Basham was out injured for a fair time too.
So our main weapon/ tactic of overloading the wings struggled because the replacements centre couldn’t play that role as well.
So we simply struggled to create chances and score, we were competing though and lost loads of games 0-1.
In the event we did score then we tended to lose 1-2. Can only remember 1 embarrassing performance under Wilder, when we lost 0-5 away at Leicester.
Think Wilder apologised and publicly slated the players for giving up. Wasn’t that one of his final matches?

As we lost by fine margins then playing behind closed doors will have had a minor detrimental effect. Probably not enough to keep us up..who knows?
McBurnie was interviewed on Talksport just immediately after the season was suspended, he admitted he’s never plays that well in training and always raises his game when there’s a crowd. He even joked that he doesn’t mind receiving stick from away fans because he said it makes him play better.
So McBurnie said he hopes when the season is resumed then fans are allowed in the stadium.
 
Sheffsteel said:
People compare the 2 seasons, one where chasing a Champions league spot the other we’re relegated.

However it was all about fine margins.

1st season under Wilder, loads of evenly match games where we tended to win 1-0, if the opposition score we tended to win 2-1.
Think our keep possession style helped massively because it prevented the opposition building up a head of steam regards prolonged pressure.
Also Henderson was particularly impressive when having very little to do…then pulling off a match winning save that looked a certain goal.
We also had momentum due to manager and players all having an inner confidence genuinely believing they can any PL team.

2nd season under Wilder, again loads of evenly match games, the problem was the season long injury to JOC
and even our other overlapping centre back Basham was out injured for a fair time too.
So our main weapon/ tactic of overloading the wings struggled because the replacements centre couldn’t play that role as well.
So we simply struggled to create chances and score, we were competing though and lost loads of games 0-1.
In the event we did score then we tended to lose 1-2.

As we lost by fine margins then playing behind closed doors will have had a minor detrimental effect. Probably not enough to keep us up..who knows?
McBurnie was interviewed on Talksport just immediately after the season was suspended, he admitted he’s never plays that well in training and always raises his game when there’s a crowd. He even joked that he doesn’t mind receiving stick from away fans because he said it makes him play better.
So McBurnie said he hopes when the season is resumed then fans are allowed in the stadium.
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I’m convinced that the lack of fans in that second season had a seriously detrimental effect on us. I’m also convinced that the other teams in the Premier League had worked us out, and that we either couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt to that reality.
 
loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
I’m convinced that the lack of fans in that second season had a seriously detrimental effect on us. I’m also convinced that the other teams in the Premier League had worked us out, and that we either couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt to that reality.
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This. Fans can tip an equal game. Fans can't outdo quality stats and video analysts watching the only system wilder can play and adapting to it
 
Torrix1889 said:
The fans, (me included) were fucking awesome yesterday at Arsenal....you could see it on the players faces, in particular Vinni Souza, (who was immense), that they were gutted, there's no lack of effort from the squad, they are simply shit!
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How shit?
Are we talking Championship shit, league 1 level shit or league 2 level shit?

Chesterfield are in the non league, theres no way they would lose 0-8 at home to Newcastle.
Also think Chesterfield would have the odd attack if they played away at Arsenal.
 
CambridgeshireBlade said:
This. Fans can tip an equal game. Fans can't outdo quality stats and video analysts watching the only system wilder can play and adapting to it
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One thing that always baffled me is that before we got promoted to the Premier League, in the seasons before, Wilder would regularly change formations and tactics throughout matches to counter opponents when they'd figured a way through us. We used to praise him for his adaptability. Then all of a sudden he became fixated and stubborn on one formation and approach.

It's like after the Villa game in our promotion season. Before that we went all out attack every game, home or away. Then after we threw away 2 points against Villa he went ultra cautious and we ground out results for the rest of the season. It's like he became paranoid of it happening again and over reacted. We lost our swagger after that.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
One thing that always baffled me is that before we got promoted to the Premier League, in the seasons before, Wilder would regularly change formations and tactics throughout matches to counter opponents when they'd figured a way through us. We used to praise him for his adaptability. Then all of a sudden he became fixated and stubborn on one formation and approach.

It's like after the Villa game in our promotion season. Before that we went all out attack every game, home or away. Then after we threw away 2 points against Villa he went ultra cautious and we ground out results for the rest of the season. It's like he became paranoid of it happening again and over reacted. We lost our swagger after that.
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I think that towards the end he allowed his personal struggles with the Prince to spill over onto the pitch, in that he very deliberately picked bad sides to try to make some sort of public point about not getting the support that he wanted at boardroom level. What other possible reason could he have had for picking Lundstram week after week, when it was blindingly obvious to everybody that the player didn’t give a toss about us. Ironically, the absence of crowds enabled Wilder to get away with this, otherwise the clamour and anger at the Lane would have forced change.
I also think - and this is perhaps unfair of me - that Wilder struggled with his personal wellbeing in that second season in the Premier, during what was a very difficult time for all of us, never mind the pressures of being a Premier League manager. I worry that this has changed him - he doesn’t seem to have the force of character that was such a feature of his outstanding early success.
 
loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
I think that towards the end he allowed his personal struggles with the Prince to spill over onto the pitch, in that he very deliberately picked bad sides to try to make some sort of public point about not getting the support that he wanted at boardroom level. What other possible reason could he have had for picking Lundstram week after week, when it was blindingly obvious to everybody that the player didn’t give a toss about us. Ironically, the absence of crowds enabled Wilder to get away with this, otherwise the clamour and anger at the Lane would have forced change.
I also think - and this is perhaps unfair of me - that Wilder struggled with his personal wellbeing in that second season in the Premier, during what was a very difficult time for all of us, never mind the pressures of being a Premier League manager. I worry that this has changed him - he doesn’t seem to have the force of character that was such a feature of his outstanding early success.
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Our midfield that season was made up of Fleck, Norwood, Lundstram, Berge, Osborn Burke and Rodwell.

Burke was awful, Rodwell never played, Osborn was always a utility player and never first choice unless we had injuries and Berge only started 13 matched before he was injured for the remainder of the season. He had no choice but to play Lundstram. Even then Fleck continued where he left off after the restart the previous season, looking like an out of form busted flush. For me, not excusing his performances, Lundstram wasn't the entire problem with our midfield. We didn't really have one other than Norwood. Everyone else was either out of form, shit, injured or Osborn.

Berge and Osborn were the only midfielders to score that season with just one goal each.
 
loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
I’m convinced that the lack of fans in that second season had a seriously detrimental effect on us. I’m also convinced that the other teams in the Premier League had worked us out, and that we either couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt to that reality.
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Other clubs DID overcome our overlapping centre back tactic however think the reason was because we didn’t have our 1st choice CB’s doing it.

Don‘t think its as simple as “let’s ask the centre backs to overlap“ because very few centre backs in the world can play it effectively.
O’Connell was a centre back but also highly capable playing as left wing back and he had a great cross.
Basham had great stamina and had experience playing as right back and as a midfielder, so Hecky asked him to play all 3 roles inside the same match.

Also O’Connell had over 2 years building up a fantastic relationship/ understanding with Stevens.
Also Basham had over 2 years building up a fantastic relationship/ understanding with Baldock.

So it was loosing O’Connell that massively effected that tactic and we also had Basham out for 2 or 3 months too.
 

John Cutsbushes said:
Yes, Covid cost us our Premier league status, you don't go from chasing Europe to relegation without due cause.
Click to expand...
I think covid hampered us more than other clubs because it impeded Chris Wilder & Knilly 's style of management. Hands on with all the team always together. Some would say an old fashioned style of management. But during covid they had to meet by zoom & later they could train in bubbles of 4 after a daily covid test. I have my suspicions other Prem clubs didn't follow these rules behind closed doors surrounded by big fencing! But we followed the rules & it was genuinely a massive hindrance to CW & Knilly.
 
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