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Tezza1889

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Ok, we've had nigel clough for over a year now and I think a couple of things need looking at, number one, he's quite clearly a gifted coach who when given the best players to work with he can take a team to any club and give them a game, has he been backed correctly, I doubt it, because he missed all three striker targets in august, the board should have topped up the offers made and secured two or one of those players with the money saved after missing out on the first target, and so on with the second, the board should have made sure nigel got at least one of these three, if we had a budget for three, we could have deffo paid the bigger wages and bagged at least one..

In this division were fortunate to have clough and should he be sacked at he end of he season we're not getting a better manager while in league one, are we sure about that??

So, that leads me to the second point, what's a good manager? And is clough one of them?

There's a very long list forming of players who for whatever reason are discarded, loaned out, kept away from the squad, signed and never played, some were begging to come back and were not signed, off he top of my head, I can name a few..

Try to categorise them..

Bench warming when we have no fit striker.
Mcnulty, diego, porter..

Signed and not played..
Porter, Butler..

Fell out with and cast adrift since nige arrived
Collins, butler, porter, taylor, brandy,

Feel free to add to this because a lot of players have passed through our ranks and not all of them are bad players or players with history of being a bad egg, some, especially butler, were known to be sound professionals, good players, so why isnt it working at the lane for these lads??

Brian clough was a great manager and always worked better with an assistant who would council him on a potential mistake or situation where he would come down too hard on a player, I think nigel needs somebody like peter taylor was to his dad, big enough a friend to command his respect and help nigel from making snap decisions In the heat of the moment, you see, nige appears very stubburn to me, and once you make a stand if you're stubborn then without the help of good council, its gets harder to step down as the days go by, don't think morgs fits that role btw.

It will sound strange to some, because were doing so well in other peoples opinion, in the top six, game in hand, "etc", but the fact is we don't have a settled side, we pose little or no threat, and were still in touching distance of he top, proof if ever that this league is very, very, poor..

In my head, I'm downgrading nigel to the role of coach, he's not a manager, because a manager manages problems and situations with players, you'll hear managers talk about competition for places and how players have to perform consistently to keep the shirt, how do we create that when if nige falls out with you, you're shut away from the sqad and the guy replacing you can just chill out, because the shirts all his...

A lot of people will have differing opinions on this, but, if you are jamal campbell ryce on Saturday night, you were given 20 minutes on Saturday, you score on your first attack, then you get switched over on the left, become less effective, and are slagged off in the post match interview for not crossing enough..

Maybee that's the reason the three didn't come in august?
 



Maybe the 3 didn't come in August cuz Nigel thought what the clubs wanted was too much n didn't wanna pay over the odds
 
Did Clough practice and talk about crossing from the left with JCR in training before the game? If so JCR did not carry out his instructions. He may well have also warned the players that if he mentions them in the media, it is just his way of being honest and they should not take it too much to heart, more of a positive re-enforcement??
Maybe that will add to the questions in your head before you judge too harshly.
 
A lot of people will have differing opinions on this, but, if you are jamal campbell ryce on Saturday night, you were given 20 minutes on Saturday, you score on your first attack, then you get switched over on the left, become less effective, and are slagged off in the post match interview for not crossing enough..
I think a lot of comments in you post are well constructed but I think this point weakens your argument. JCR was poor after he scored the goal. He was poor when crossing the ball with either foot, insisted on trying to beat his man 3 or four times and often ignored players in better positions. Clough will tell the players this in the dressing room.

He wasn't slagging JCR off he was basically telling the truth. I find it bemusing that the fans can 'have a go' at a player in public but the manger can't do the same. Why should the manager take the blame if the players don't do the basics right.. Don't forget he criticised the performance so effect he had a go at all the players. If he came out and said they played well can you imagine the reaction.

I feel you are being harsh on NC saying he has cut NC adrift as he played him last season and obviously feels he isn't at the same level now and Porter was quite pivotel for us at the end of last season. All managers want to bring in their own players so the turnaround is no surprise.

The main thing I have been disappointed with is the lack of options up front. If he feels Diego and Porter aren't good enough that's his choice so ship them out ,but having two strikers in the squad leaves us short in that area.

For me the tactics away from home have been OK but at home, teams tend to defend a little deeper which means JCR, Murphy and Scougill can't get in behind. This means will need to push on the back 4 and with Baxter up their we don't do this

I think the side is quite settled for league games, we all know who the keeper and back 4 will be and we know that 4 of the midfield will be Doyle ,Murphy, Wallace(if not fit Basham) and Scougill . JCR and Flynn compete for the wide right spot(until Davies is fit again.) Striker is the only problem area and at home ,I would play Higdon (if fit) and play Baxter behind instead of Scougill[/QUOTE]
 
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Maybe the 3 didn't come in August cuz Nigel thought what the clubs wanted was too much n didn't wanna pay over the odds
Yes but Tezza makes a good point,we could have surely got one of them in.

Lets say you go to the shop for three things,but when you get there you find out you haven't got enough for all three,do you A)not get anything,or B)do you get the one thing you really want or need?
 
There are different types of leaders. From a distance Clough seems to be a serious, driving, no-nonsense, focused individual who is rarely seen on match days with an arm around a player. He is also seen regularly berating players over game incidents but not too often praising them.

The OP mentions the role of the assistant but Garner similarly shows more dissatisfaction than approval on match days and remarkably throws his hands in the air, his head in his hands and can be seen stomping around and whingeing to the dugout and his manager time and again.

Morgan seems to play the good guy in the trio.

Any person's leadership techniques reflect the personality of the manager. It's not a popularity contest and nobody can act out of character for long without being found out anyway.

It's my guess, and it is a guess, that Clough sets up his standards and woe betide anybody who falls short in any situation. It may well be that the two main men do all their touchy feely stuff on weekdays in training but on match days they are intense and ruthless. I suspect players need to have loads of inner strength to keep on wanting the ball or going into situations rather than hiding when things are not going well. Public bollockings are hard to take for anybody. Over a period only the ones who can cope with it and respond to it will stay with us.

Each manager has a style but for the life of me I don't know what purpose Garner serves showing such impatience and publicly haranguing the lads. If his manager is a hard man I would have thought Garner ought to balance that by being encouraging and supportive.

Personally I believe the game in general has gone soft and players call the tune far too much. Perhaps there is a middle ground and hopefully our management give the players all the encouragement in the world in training etc.

Note: I sit behind the directors' box and Garner and Clough are right in my line of sight.
 
Yes but Tezza makes a good point,we could have surely got one of them in.

Lets say you go to the shop for three things,but when you get there you find out you haven't got enough for all three,do you A)not get anything,or B)do you get the one thing you really want or need?

It's more akin to going to the shop for some filter coffee for your espresso machine. You'd like Lavazza because it's probably the best in your price range and if not you have two other brands you'll buy instead. But when you get there, they have only got own brand coffee available. Do you go with the cheaper, inferior product or save your money until the Lavazza is available?
 
It's more akin to going to the shop for some filter coffee for your espresso machine. You'd like Lavazza because it's probably the best in your price range and if not you have two other brands you'll buy instead. But when you get there, they have only got own brand coffee available. Do you go with the cheaper, inferior product or save your money until the Lavazza is available?




Didn't Lavazza squirt that water bottle at Sabella during the World Cup?
 
It's more akin to going to the shop for some filter coffee for your espresso machine. You'd like Lavazza because it's probably the best in your price range and if not you have two other brands you'll buy instead. But when you get there, they have only got own brand coffee available. Do you go with the cheaper, inferior product or save your money until the Lavazza is available?
You go for the best you can get with the money you have,as with everything else in life regarding this sort of stuff.As in Cloughy's case he wouldn't have been getting the bottom of the barrel as such because he wanted all 3 players so atleast one would have been acceptable.
 
You go for the best you can get with the money you have,as with everything else in life regarding this sort of stuff.As in Cloughy's case he wouldn't have been getting the bottom of the barrel as such because he wanted all 3 players so atleast one would have been acceptable.

We are assuming that the parents sent him to the shop with enough money to get what was wanted, of course ;)
 
We are assuming that the parents sent him to the shop with enough money to get what was wanted, of course ;)
He could always put it in his pocket:eek: Infact could Clough fit a striker in his pocket,we do like small players:)
 
I dont get this over analysis of Clough , hes buiding from the foundations , we can only see the frame so far , wait until weve got th cladding on in January
Is there room for improvement certainly, the man himself has said so , let the bloke breathe , we are suffocating him with all this he made an error selecting from those available, saints last night did what most are advocating we do play 2 forwards , and they went backwards , lets see how it pans out , if we arent near top 6 end of feb thats the time to start the inquests ,
 
Some great responses, and yes I agree we shouldn't just buy any old player, and the garner comments are correct,.if you have two people raising the blood pressure of each other it just gets more heated, good point about jcr not doing what he was told but then why didn't he start on the left then if that's the case?..

Again, it won't be any consolation to clough that he saved a few quid in august, and keeping a wage cap intact (I believe there is one for permanent signings) if we are unsuccessfull in being promoted, we know our owners have said this is the minimum..

Sign a quality forward, one who will run his blood to water and be a threat, pay what it demands, I didn't hear a single word of player unrest about what brayford earned when he was here, players know why others get more, because you get what you're worth as a player...

Come on nigel, patchy off days aside the team are playing ok and results prove this, but we need to add some hope that after stringing 20 passes together we have somebody with the desire to smash it past the goalie,.and the skill, determination and ruthlessness to kill opponents off, we clearly have the money, we haven't paid three players for half a season, should be a tidy sum kept to one side that...
 



Lets say you go to the shop for three things,but when you get there you find out you haven't got enough for all three,do you A)not get anything,or B)do you get the one thing you really want or need?

It's more akin to going to the shop for some filter coffee for your espresso machine. You'd like Lavazza because it's probably the best in your price range and if not you have two other brands you'll buy instead. But when you get there, they have only got own brand coffee available. Do you go with the cheaper, inferior product or save your money until the Lavazza is available?

Both wrong

We have a shopping list to complete our party goods for Lavazza Rossa Coffee Beans (1Kg), a bottle of Metaxa 5 star Brandy and a pack of Hamlet panatellas - approx retail values at £14 £19 and £5 = £38 total
We go into the shop with £3.50, argue the toss about how we could have bought all this in the 70s for less and still had enough change for a fish supper and come straight back out with fuck all
 
Did Clough practice and talk about crossing from the left with JCR in training before the game? If so JCR did not carry out his instructions. He may well have also warned the players that if he mentions them in the media, it is just his way of being honest and they should not take it too much to heart, more of a positive re-enforcement??
Maybe that will add to the questions in your head before you judge too harshly.

I would doubt the second part of your post, but what do we know ?.
 
Managers seem to think they need to rule with a iron fist?
Maybe that is right, I've never had to manage a group of people on £3K a week.
I know for as fact that pig players when Harkson was in the squad [no he wasn't one of them] used to turn up [think Pleat was in charge but memory is shite] and get their cheque books out and ask what the fine was if they missed training because they would rather go off and play golf. some where paying in excess of £1500.00 a day to play golf and some would miss 2 days a week.

Take Chris Wilder, always was comfortable on the ball but when he brought it down and stepped inside to bring midfield into play would get a bollocking, used to drive me up the wall - can't remember who was in charge but suspect it was Bassett.

One definite Warnock favourite was Alan Wright, always pumped the ball behind the opposition full back and made him turn, what a waste of an ex England player, Warnock loved him because every instruction was carried out to a tee.
 



Both wrong

We have a shopping list to complete our party goods for Lavazza Rossa Coffee Beans (1Kg), a bottle of Metaxa 5 star Brandy and a pack of Hamlet panatellas - approx retail values at £14 £19 and £5 = £38 total
We go into the shop with £3.50, argue the toss about how we could have bought all this in the 70s for less and still had enough change for a fish supper and come straight back out with fuck all

That's why your not a football manager.

Take the Metaxa every time.
 

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