The definition of insanity.

[Al. 59]

The definition of insanity.... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Sounds like the manager who came in promising high pressing attacking football.
Instead we have nothing and nothing is changing from game to game.

How long does it keep repeating itself?

 

[Chezzy Blades]

It's a strange one, the one time we pressed Boro high we forced an error and should have scored. The Sky camera happened to be on Selles just before and you could clearly see him bellowing 'Press Press Press!'. Does he not do it the rest of the time? Or does he and the players aren't listening? There are a lot of technical average (and worse) defenders in the Championship who will often give the ball away under pressure yet we just aren't doing it enough.

I do feel 3-5-2 would suit the players we have better, even if means side-lining Barry and Brooks for the time being in favour of winning some games.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

It’s not just the fact we are losing games it’s the manner in which are losing .. we are creating absolutely nothing with players that have proved they are a lot better than this , we are getting overrun in midfield every game & wide open down the flanks .. and as you say his response .. change nothing ?
I think he did himself no favours with the players with the on field chastising of them after the Bristol City defeat & I don’t think they are having him at all now after 5 consecutive losses .
To come out after the match yesterday & claim we were dominant until they scored without registering a single shot on target ( last 2 away games ) yesterday fkg beggars belief ?
The bloke is out of his depth & the players & fans know it .. I hope the board realise soon before the season is wrote off by the end of Sept

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's a strange one, the one time we pressed Boro high we forced an error and should have scored. The Sky camera happened to be on Selles just before and you could clearly see him bellowing 'Press Press Press!'. Does he not do it the rest of the time? Or does he and the players aren't listening? There are a lot of technical average (and worse) defenders in the Championship who will often give the ball away under pressure yet we just aren't doing it enough.

I'm not sure the likes of Campbell, Brooks, Hamer are made for a 90 min high pressing game.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

My definition of insanity is creating threads about a subject for which there are already several threads.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

It's a strange one, the one time we pressed Boro high we forced an error and should have scored. The Sky camera happened to be on Selles just before and you could clearly see him bellowing 'Press Press Press!'. Does he not do it the rest of the time? Or does he and the players aren't listening? There are a lot of technical average (and worse) defenders in the Championship who will often give the ball away under pressure yet we just aren't doing it enough.

I do feel 3-5-2 would suit the players we have better, even if means side-lining Barry and Brooks for the time being in favour of winning some games.

But that seems to be his only tactic .. press & hope the opposition make a mistake ? We seem completely devoid of ideas of how to move the ball forward through the lines or even directly & have no pattern of play whatsover ??
It’s like the laughable short goal kick routines , 10 passes lucky if we gain 10 yards & then either lose it or hoof it up to a none existent target man ( that we’ve just sold ) .

 

[Bergen Blade]

But that seems to be his only tactic .. press & hope the opposition make a mistake ? We seem completely devoid of ideas of how to move the ball forward through the lines or even directly & have no pattern of play whatsover ??
It’s like the laughable short goal kick routines , 10 passes lucky if we gain 10 yards & then either lose it or hoof it up to a none existent target man ( that we’ve just sold ) .

We make an attempt at a high press here:



But it's poor, fails and sets Boro up for a break, having got past 5 of our players with some easy passes.



When we're so poor at it, it seems like a waste of energy moving half the team forward, failing, then having to rush back after them.

 

[Lane Ender]

I'm not sure the likes of Campbell, Brooks, Hamer are made for a 90 min high pressing game.

None of that trio work hard enough

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

A lot of our players have forgotten how to play football. They're used to pass, pass, no movement, pass, pass, no movement, pass backwards ,hoof. They've been playing that football for a whole season where they spent 70% of the game winning back the ball that they had given away through poor passing and no off ball movement.

Now they're being asked to keep the ball and run with it, make off ball runs and pass into space ahead of the player running. Midfielders are being asked to track back from a high up position instead of in the middle of the pitch, so they're having to run more and play a duel role. Now they're being asked to make their own decisions with the ball instead of always doing the same thing regardless of who is around them, hence crossing or hoofing it to no-one or passing back when they can't figure out anything positive to do which they did all last season. Last season they played like drones who'd had all decisions made for them. Paint by number subbuteo football.

They're not used to this as Wilder's way has been ingrained into them, but that way wasn't entirely effective as we got outplayed home and away, win, lose or draw.

I'm not saying Selles is the answer or that he's free from blame, but Wilder's static predictable, battling safety first football is all some of these players know and now it's been taken away and they look lost. Given that they're professional footballers they should still manage the basics regardless of manager, formation and tactics and right now many of the players from last season need to hang their heads in shame as their efforts are pathetic and they look like they've never played football before. Some of their passing and lack of control of a football is shameful. Brooks first touch is laughable as it bounces off him five yards away. What's he been doinf since he was 8? Unprofessional Wankers, especially Hamer. We lack a leader on the pitch as there is no there worthy of being a captain to inspire the rest.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

I'm not sure the likes of Campbell, Brooks, Hamer are made for a 90 min high pressing game.

I don’t disagree, but given when Selles arrived he was very keen to sell that as his philosophy, why isn’t he adapting and either picking different players or (perhaps a better option) changing the system?

Hamer is a wonderful player in so many ways, as is Campbell, but the fact neither can get match fit for a intensity 90 minutes after mutiple pre-seasons will hold us back in lots of ways while they are here.

The manager’s approach reeks of what Amorim and Martin are doing at Man U and Rangers respectively, refusing to adapt despite having players who clearly don’t suit what they are trying to do.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

Wilder was here for one full season in his second spell. The idea that all these players have forgotten how to play any other way, after one season of working with Wilder, is utterly nonsensical.

Even if it was true, Selles has been working with them for months. How long will it take for them to unlearn Wilder's dinosaur football (we finished 3rd btw)? We currently look a very poorly coached team. No amount of logical gymnastics are going to change the fact that that is on the current manager, not his predecessor.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Wilder was here for one full season in his second spell. The idea that all these players have forgotten how to play any other way, after one season of working with Wilder, is utterly nonsensical.

Even if it was true, Selles has been working with them for months. How long will it take for them to unlearn Wilder's dinosaur football (we finished 3rd btw)? We currently look a very poorly coached team. No amount of logical gymnastics are going to change the fact that that is on the current manager, not his predecessor.

I don't think it's so much they've forgotten how to play, more that several of them are being asked to play roles they don't suit their skillset.

We are trying to play a higher line but have brought in Bindon who has no pace. He looks currently like he'd better be protected in a back three.

Pack, Hamer and O'Hare are all playing in midfield roles they look uncomfortable in. Peck is used to playing alongside a destroyer, Hamer and COH are both number 10s being asked to play a lot deeper. Out of possession none of them seem to know what to do.

Barry doesn't track back, making an out of form Burrows look even worse.

Brooks did some nice things yesterday but again lacks defensively and his end product is poor.

We're asking Campbell to play with his back to goal when really he thrives bursting in behind onto through balls. I lost count of the number of times yesterday we either rifled it into his feet or tossed up a long ball and asked him to try and out jump Fry. Ings looked better when he came on because he's much more comfortable playing with his back to goal but in the current system it still wouldn't work.

Much like Wilder did in 2016 the players available feel like they'd be more comfortable in a 3-5-2 (or possibly 3-4-2-1 with COH and Hamer as 10s if he wants both in the team). Burrows does his best work going forward so I think may thrive as a wing back, and it gives the option to play Seriki again on the other side, whilst offering Bindon a bit more protection with Tanganga and Godfrey with him in the back three. This does mean we'd have to take out Barry and Brooks for the moment (I feel Chong would also thrive in behind a forward) but something needs to be done before this start comes irreversible.

 

[Jon Bon II]

My definition of insanity is creating threads about a subject for which there are already several threads.

My definition of insanity is walking round Tesco with no trousers on, shirt and jumper tucked into my underpants and a pair of carpet slippers hanging off my ears. It's not something that I do, yet, but it's something that I aspire to when the time comes.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I don’t disagree, but given when Selles arrived he was very keen to sell that as his philosophy, why isn’t he adapting and either picking different players or (perhaps a better option) changing the system?

Hamer is a wonderful player in so many ways, as is Campbell, but the fact neither can get match fit for a intensity 90 minutes after mutiple pre-seasons will hold us back in lots of ways while they are here.

The manager’s approach reeks of what Amorim and Martin are doing at Man U and Rangers respectively, refusing to adapt despite having players who clearly don’t suit what they are trying to do.

I think he, the staff and the club looked at our points tally last season and concluded some more "modern" methods would surely make them perform even better.

But like Slav also found out, the squad has been shaped to play in a pretty specific way. Our players aren't the rounded, "complete" types that can work in any tactical setup. I think Selles is realising the emphasis on high pressing must be toned down, especially away, but the result looks like confusion at the moment.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

My definition of insanity is walking round Tesco with no trousers on, shirt and jumper tucked into my underpants and a pair of carpet slippers hanging off my ears. It's not something that I do, yet, but it's something that I aspire to when the time comes.

I was already on board when you got to walking around Tescos.

 

[Foxy]

'Press Press Press!'. Does he not do it the rest of the time?

He shouldn't have to (though some of ours are used to constant instructions), there should be triggers that they all perform/act on... we clearly don't try to counter press, unless multiple players have just decided they cant be arsed

Seen a few examples recently where someone like O'Hare or even Hamer presses alone, with three or four others failing to read the situation.

We were doing it further up the pitch pre-season/initially, we seem to have retreated/stopped the majority of the time.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I don't think it's so much they've forgotten how to play, more that several of them are being asked to play roles they don't suit their skillset.

We are trying to play a higher line but have brought in Bindon who has no pace. He looks currently like he'd better be protected in a back three.

Pack, Hamer and O'Hare are all playing in midfield roles they look uncomfortable in. Peck is used to playing alongside a destroyer, Hamer and COH are both number 10s being asked to play a lot deeper. Out of possession none of them seem to know what to do.

Barry doesn't track back, making an out of form Burrows look even worse.

Brooks did some nice things yesterday but again lacks defensively and his end product is poor.

We're asking Campbell to play with his back to goal when really he thrives bursting in behind onto through balls. I lost count of the number of times yesterday we either rifled it into his feet or tossed up a long ball and asked him to try and out jump Fry. Ings looked better when he came on because he's much more comfortable playing with his back to goal but in the current system it still wouldn't work.

Much like Wilder did in 2016 the players available feel like they'd be more comfortable in a 3-5-2 (or possibly 3-4-2-1 with COH and Hamer as 10s if he wants both in the team). Burrows does his best work going forward so I think may thrive as a wing back, and it gives the option to play Seriki again on the other side, whilst offering Bindon a bit more protection with Tanganga and Godfrey with him in the back three. This does mean we'd have to take out Barry and Brooks for the moment (I feel Chong would also thrive in behind a forward) but something needs to be done before this start comes irreversible.

Nice summary, agree with it.

I often say about any player.
Play to their strengths and many players can appear really good.
Don’t play to their strengths and some will look very ordinary or even quite poor.

Wilder knows all these players.
Would love to go for a few pints with him….get him a bit drunk so he’s relaxed and willing to talk.
Then ask him about….why in his opinion are we struggling and what does he think about Selles tactics.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

My definition of insanity is walking round Tesco with no trousers on, shirt and jumper tucked into my underpants and a pair of carpet slippers hanging off my ears. It's not something that I do, yet, but it's something that I aspire to when the time comes.

That post wins the internet today!

Very well played Sir!

 

[cooperblade]

He shouldn't have to (though some of ours are used to constant instructions), there should be triggers that they all perform/act on... we clearly don't try to counter press, unless multiple players have just decided they cant be arsed

Seen a few examples recently where someone like O'Hare or even Hamer presses alone, with three or four others failing to read the situation.

We were doing it further up the pitch pre-season/initially, we seem to have retreated/stopped the majority of the time.

Obviously having Ndiaye helped but we were a better pressing team under Hecky (in the Championship) than we are now.

As Bergen Blade has said elsewhere, our squad isn't built for the style that Selles talked about in pre-season.

Over a long time now (going back to Clough), we seem to sign too many players who either only work in a specific formation (e.g. Barry) or who don't have a set position for us (O'Hare, Hamer).

 

[Frank the tank]

A lot of our players have forgotten how to play football. They're used to pass, pass, no movement, pass, pass, no movement, pass backwards ,hoof. They've been playing that football for a whole season where they spent 70% of the game winning back the ball that they had given away through poor passing and no off ball movement.

Now they're being asked to keep the ball and run with it, make off ball runs and pass into space ahead of the player running. Midfielders are being asked to track back from a high up position instead of in the middle of the pitch, so they're having to run more and play a duel role. Now they're being asked to make their own decisions with the ball instead of always doing the same thing regardless of who is around them, hence crossing or hoofing it to no-one or passing back when they can't figure out anything positive to do which they did all last season. Last season they played like drones who'd had all decisions made for them. Paint by number subbuteo football.

They're not used to this as Wilder's way has been ingrained into them, but that way wasn't entirely effective as we got outplayed home and away, win, lose or draw.

I'm not saying Selles is the answer or that he's free from blame, but Wilder's static predictable, battling safety first football is all some of these players know and now it's been taken away and they look lost. Given that they're professional footballers they should still manage the basics regardless of manager, formation and tactics and right now many of the players from last season need to hang their heads in shame as their efforts are pathetic and they look like they've never played football before. Some of their passing and lack of control of a football is shameful. Brooks first touch is laughable as it bounces off him five yards away. What's he been doinf since he was 8? Unprofessional Wankers, especially Hamer. We lack a leader on the pitch as there is no there worthy of being a captain to inspire the rest.

Can't have that ,when Howard Kendall took over bassets team he had them playing a short passing style from the very first kick off

 

[Mumbo]

My definition of insanity is walking round Tesco with no trousers on, shirt and jumper tucked into my underpants and a pair of carpet slippers hanging off my ears. It's not something that I do, yet, but it's something that I aspire to when the time comes.

I’m in.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Obviously having Ndiaye helped but we were a better pressing team under Hecky (in the Championship) than we are now.

As Bergen Blade has said elsewhere, our squad isn't built for the style that Selles talked about in pre-season.

Over a long time now (going back to Clough), we seem to sign too many players who either only work in a specific formation (e.g. Barry) or who don't have a set position for us (O'Hare, Hamer).

Selles seems like a good guy who works hard, and in interviews does accept blame, etc. But when he mentions the odd chance we created last week and McCallum's chance yesterday as some sort of proof that things are working, coupled with persisting with the same midfield that opposition players just runs through, I lose hope that he's going to get it right any time soon.

 

[cooperblade]

Selles seems like a good guy who works hard, and in interviews does accept blame, etc. But when he mentions the odd chance we created last week and McCallum's chance yesterday as some sort of proof that things are working, coupled with persisting with the same midfield that opposition players just runs through, I lose hope that he's going to get it right any time soon.

Fotmob had McCallum's chance as 0.12xg

 

[Bergen Blade]

Fotmob had McCallum's chance as 0.12xg

They must have added players' finishing ability into the xg stat.

 

[The Bohemian]

I'm not sure the likes of Campbell, Brooks, Hamer are made for a 90 min high pressing game.

Add Burrows, Godfrey, Peck and Ings to that list. Therein lies the problem and the players aren’t stupid. They have worked out how vulnerable we are trying to press high without the athleticism to consistently do it. Not only has it made us weaker collectively, we’ve neutralised the stand-out performers from last season (who haven’t yet been sold) - Burrows, Hamer, Peck and Campbell. They just look forlorn being asked to play a system they know isn’t working and doesn’t suit them.

 

[The Crab]

My definition of insanity is walking round Tesco with no trousers on, shirt and jumper tucked into my underpants and a pair of carpet slippers hanging off my ears. It's not something that I do, yet, but it's something that I aspire to when the time comes.

It’s overrated.

The slippers kept falling off my ears…

 

[Champagneblade]

The definition of insanity.... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Sounds like the manager who came in promising high pressing attacking football.
Instead we have nothing and nothing is changing from game to game.

How long does it keep repeating itself?

Hopefully we don’t give him the chance.

First impressions count and he’s already shown an inability to learn.

He’s just hoping better players will make his system work but it’s too imbalanced.

It has no place in reality. Half the time you don’t have the ball; you can’t be wide open when you don’t.

 

[Rodley]

A lot of our players have forgotten how to play football. They're used to pass, pass, no movement, pass, pass, no movement, pass backwards ,hoof. They've been playing that football for a whole season where they spent 70% of the game winning back the ball that they had given away through poor passing and no off ball movement.

Now they're being asked to keep the ball and run with it, make off ball runs and pass into space ahead of the player running. Midfielders are being asked to track back from a high up position instead of in the middle of the pitch, so they're having to run more and play a duel role. Now they're being asked to make their own decisions with the ball instead of always doing the same thing regardless of who is around them, hence crossing or hoofing it to no-one or passing back when they can't figure out anything positive to do which they did all last season. Last season they played like drones who'd had all decisions made for them. Paint by number subbuteo football.

They're not used to this as Wilder's way has been ingrained into them, but that way wasn't entirely effective as we got outplayed home and away, win, lose or draw.

I'm not saying Selles is the answer or that he's free from blame, but Wilder's static predictable, battling safety first football is all some of these players know and now it's been taken away and they look lost. Given that they're professional footballers they should still manage the basics regardless of manager, formation and tactics and right now many of the players from last season need to hang their heads in shame as their efforts are pathetic and they look like they've never played football before. Some of their passing and lack of control of a football is shameful. Brooks first touch is laughable as it bounces off him five yards away. What's he been doinf since he was 8? Unprofessional Wankers, especially Hamer. We lack a leader on the pitch as there is no there worthy of being a captain to inspire the rest.

Excuse Selles
Blame Wilder
Call everyone Bedwetters

 

[ATL Recs]

We make an attempt at a high press here:

View attachment 220691

But it's poor, fails and sets Boro up for a break, having got past 5 of our players with some easy passes.

View attachment 220692

When we're so poor at it, it seems like a waste of energy moving half the team forward, failing, then having to rush back after them.

Press has to work offensively and defensively as a team unit - and that is down to coaches and how they are implementing it

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Excuse Selles
Blame Wilder
Call everyone Bedwetters