The conundrum that is Oli Norwood

[jono_t2000]

Look, I dont think he had a terrible game last night. (Apart from setpieces which have been woeful for over a year now)

The problem with Norwood is that he is, like Wilder once said, the equivalent of the quaterback of our team. Everything we do goes through him, which here incases our problem/conundrum.

His best ability is his diagonal pings which admittedly did pick out Baldock beautifully against Brum, but thats it, and furthermore every club in England knows thats it.

As one of the Birmingham fans said in the View from after the game, we are very one dimentional. When Norwood plays our midfield is bypassed 90% of the time and made redundant.

Ben Bloom talked about clubs going through cycles and the replacement of players in key positions to start a new cycle. Unfortunately I dont think we will start our new cycle under Slav until we completely replace Norwood.

(Not single handly picking out Norwood fyi, just pointing out that he is the one that everything goes through when we go forward)

 

[bertieblade]

A central Midfield player must also be capable of tackling, tracking back, winning headers and getting forward to support the attack and have the occasional shot.
Norwood limits himself to exchanging passes with our back four and occasionally pinging it out wide to someone like Baldock who because it had taken so long to get the ball to him
Is expected to perform miracles to create anything.

 

[ancientblade]

because he plays about 5 yards in front of our central defenders we lose a body in midfield for me if we had wingers on both flanks his pings might bring an end product but all that happens is the ball goes out to our full backs who then turn and play it back to our centre backs

 

[Maidenhead]

A couple of years ago I posted "we got Ollie Norwood, he is fucking no good" and got lambasted.

Chickens coming home

 

[bromtom]

The pings work when he's got vision and plays it to begin a move, but 99% of the time he pings it to someone who is already roughly where the pass is going, so by the time the admittedly impressive diagonal lofted ball arrives, all the defenders have got back and are usually doubling up on the bloke receiving.

Maybe if he put some topspin on them and zipped them instead of lofting they'd be more useful, but to be honest, with the state of his setpieces he should probably be dropped anyway. His success rate of decent balls in from corners is about 1 in 20.

 

[Maidenhead]

That was shite.

We played em off the park for 30 minutes then "we got Ollie Norwood, he is fucking no good" gifted em a goal and we never had another kick.

Something needs to change or the only way is down

In fact it was three years ago.

Yes he can hit a long ball to feet but he can't do anything else

 

[Luke1993]

A central Midfield player must also be capable of tackling, tracking back, winning headers and getting forward to support the attack and have the occasional shot.
Norwood limits himself to exchanging passes with our back four and occasionally pinging it out wide to someone like Baldock who because it had taken so long to get the ball to him
Is expected to perform miracles to create anything.

Agree with 90% of what you said there, but for baldock to beat his opposite number now and again and actually put a half decent cross in every once in a while is not expecting miracles in my view. More the basic of what a RB/RWB should be offering.

 

[sitwell]

Watch Norwoods corners in the first half ,they are perfect ,edge of the 6 yard box central ,our 5 players who should be attacking it simply didnt and 6 foot something Berge was holding hands with Norwood out near the corner . The one corner which didnt clear the front man was by Fleck. Its become fashionable to have a pop at Norwood for some reason ,he was the only one playing attacking passes last night ,with very little to aim for which is why he had to long to Baldock or Osborne. As for the post above ,Baldock had 3 great opportunities to cross but his delivery isnt there at the moment.

A central Midfield player must also be capable of tackling, tracking back, winning headers and getting forward to support the attack and have the occasional shot.
Norwood limits himself to exchanging passes with our back four and occasionally pinging it out wide to someone like Baldock who because it had taken so long to get the ball to him
Is expected to perform miracles to create anything.

Did you go ? Apart from Burke he was the only one to have a shot ,he won more headers in the midfield than the other two ,his main job is to intercept , bring it out from the defenders and start attacks. different midfielders have different roles ,Berge is to carry the ball more ,Fleck is to be the aggressor and carry it ,your description above doesnt fit with many midfielders in the game.

 

[bertieblade]

The problem being that by the time Norwood has finished pissing about with it and got the ball to Baldock everyone is marked

 

[bertieblade]

Watch Norwoods corners in the first half ,they are perfect ,edge of the 6 yard box central ,our 5 players who should be attacking it simply didnt and 6 foot something Berge was holding hands with Norwood out near the corner . The one corner which didnt clear the front man was by Fleck. Its become fashionable to have a pop at Norwood for some reason ,he was the only one playing attacking passes last night ,with very little to aim for which is why he had to long to Baldock or Osborne. As for the post above ,Baldock had 3 great opportunities to cross but his delivery isnt there at the moment.


Did you go ? Apart from Burke he was the only one to have a shot ,he won more headers in the midfield than the other two ,his main job is to intercept , bring it out from the defenders and start attacks. different midfielders have different roles ,Berge is to carry the ball more ,Fleck is to be the aggressor and carry it ,your description above doesnt fit with many midfielders in the game.

Yep I went and have watched him make the same ponderous mistakes time after time.
I agree that he is better than fleck but that does not make him any good.
first six months here he played well as he moved the ball quicker unfortunately now both he and his distribution are too slow
Does he create chances no as everything is done too slowly
Does he offer a physical presence no, admittedly neither do the other two.
He is also likely to drop a bollock and give the ball Away in a dangerous area.

we need to replace both Norwood and fleck, I do admire your admiration of Norwood just don’t see what he brings to the party on a consistent basis.

 

[pommpey]

Been saying the same thing, week in, week out about Norwood now since the end of the season before last.

It is unsatisfactorily pleasing that everyone is seeing what I am seeing now, which is a one trick showpony of a player. What used to work with mid-phase Wilder and the marauding, fearless 3-5-2 with deep overloads thanks to Bash and JO'C won't fucking work now that everyone has sussed Norwood's single ambition. And with a 4-3-1-2 (or whatever) he simply hasn't got George or Enda pushed far up the wing in space with Bash/Lunny on one side or Jack/Fleck on the other to get round the back of their last men and centre for Leon or Billy to nod or tap home. That is so 2018.

Given the fact that his mode is to demand the ball from Egan or 3PO and look up for a runner - give you a clue sweetcheeks ... the fullbacks won't be where you think they'll be as wingbacks - and he then thinks he can set the Brickie or the Sickie off on a run on goal. He never, ever goes past an opponent and threads a pass into feet of an advancing player. It's as if the centre of the pitch is a huge blind spot for him and he just HAS to play the hollywood ball, no matter what. And when he is on the ball, he is so easily harried and dispossessed.

If fans are sentimental about him and his 'ping' they need to fucking stop, right now. last night he proved his shitness from setpieces with that free kick and has in the past been a protagonist of either harmlessly lofting corners over the top into nowhere or hitting the first man.

As said, the sooner we drop him and get him shifted out and bring in a player who can do the midfielder work the better.

pommpey

 

[Luke1993]

The problem being that by the time Norwood has finished pissing about with it and got the ball to Baldock everyone is marked

He literally played it to baldock at least 3 times in a 1 on 1 situation and baldock created nothing from every situation, whether the strikers were in a position for him to cross is a different point. but if we're relying on our full backs for our width they have to improve.

 

[TomHeffernan]

When he came into the side his array of passing was something to behold. I’d probably not seen a player that could ping a long pass quite like him. It was a joy to watch.

United were however a better team with Coutts. He was the engine of the team. Always available to pick up the ball and give it. Receive the ball and give it, always finding space. Everything came through him and he really was a Rolls Royce of a player. Although technically Norwood was the better player perhaps, Coutts was the better of the two for the team. Make no mistake, if Coutts hadn’t got injured that season, in my opinion, we would have had back to back promotions.

Right now we need a Coutts type of player. Norwood and his Hollywood passes are not working.

 

[raimond]

A central Midfield player must also be capable of tackling, tracking back, winning headers and getting forward to support the attack and have the occasional shot.
Norwood limits himself to exchanging passes with our back four and occasionally pinging it out wide to someone like Baldock who because it had taken so long to get the ball to him
Is expected to perform miracles to create anything.

If they could do all that they'd be worth a few quid more than we could afford!! They don't each have to be able to do the lot no, but they need to complement one another.

This 3 don't- Lundstram was a joke but that little golden spell, he was the presser and ball winner. We need a bit of physicality in there.

When Norwood first came yes his ping was great but he had energy and kept things moving nicely too- but he became a bit of a one trick pony with the crossfield balls and lost confidence when they no longer worked. As others have said his set plays have gone to cock too.

Him and Sander aren't going to win a tackle between them and Fleck's not himself (or according to Rangers and Coventry fans he is). We need a bit of strength and muscle to let the others do their thing.

Last thing on Norwood- let's not forget how bloody good he was, and how good he was for others (including Fulham) before he came to us. He could come good again under Slav yet.

 

[robbiez666]

Basically, Norwood needs a player next to him to do all the running (Fleck) about and tacking and one in front of him to create chances (Duffy).

He picks up the ball and makes an easy pass or occasionally tries to do a Hollywood. Can't play Berge and Norwood and the latter only works if everyone else is constantly running around.

Overlapping wingbacks suited him as he didn't really have to move. Let Basham, Baldock and Duffy get forward. He's redundant if we're not playing them.

 

[wizadry]

Take Norwood and Fleck off corners and let Norwood hold on the edge of the box, he can strike a sweet ball but never gets in a position to do so. Put Berge on corners because he doesn’t like heading the ball anyway, it’s a no brainer.

 

[metalblade]

Pings are all well and good but they land at either Baldock or whichever incumbent is left fullback this week non of them can go past a defender and put a decent cross in so they turn back and pass to a defender and the whole process starts again. Other than a few pings out wide he offers nothing and at the moment Fleck is just as bad.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Teams are about balance. The manager got ours all wrong.The quality of our players had nowt to do with that Brum game.
Norwood's diagonals and switches are a valuable commodity at any level. Less so.if you play with the narrowest team in the history of narrow things. It's out of possession where he struggles.

 

[Charlieblade]

Teams are about balance. The manager got ours all wrong.The quality of our players had nowt to do with that Brum game.
Norwood's diagonals and switches are a valuable commodity at any level. Less so.if you play with the narrowest team in the history of narrow things. It's out of possession where he struggles.

We had 75% of possession in the Brum game. Most of that was short backwards or side to side passing.
No urgency or high pressing out of possession. No quick front foot balls.

 

[Champagneblade]

In principle we have decent attackers at this level. There is a body of work for them which suggests this if they are given chances.

No point harping on about formation changes. I find this a bit of a red herring to be honest. The only difference from our 3-5-2 is that we are swapping Burke in for a centre half out. The rest are largely playing the same roles. Didzy gravitated to the left cutting in anyway so there isn't much of a shift there. The wide defenders are still expected to go forward only they won't be joined with a centre half, but that was not really happening on the left to any effect anyway and on the right you have an additional body in Burke.

In the main we didn't really take too many pastings so the defence has been ok in their main function to a degree. Though I would have Basham over Robinson and perhaps a taller left back long term, maybe RND. You used to have one blocker (Egan) with one ball player to bring the ball out (Basham) in most defensive partnerships so I don't see this as odd. I don't recall Ferdinand and Vidic being left and right footed and they did ok.

The issue is clearly the midfield. I'd go so far as to say we need options to replace the midfield in it's entirety.

A lot was made of Norwood's relationship with Jokanovic, but he wasn't absolute first pick.

Johansen made 43 starts, 2 subs.
McDonald made 42 starts, no subs.
Cairney made 30 starts, 4 subs.
Norwood made 22 starts, 14 subs.

So whilst I am fine for him to resume his Fulham role in the squad, there were 3 others clearly ahead of him.

For McDonald, you can perhaps read Vieira as a deep lying playmaker.

For Cairney, is this Berge? Sander can play in a double pivot but that's not to say he just sits, he can be a ball carrier.

Which just leaves to question of Fleck. He is a notorious slow starter at the best of times. Question is, can he grow into the role? Do we need to see if Freeman can take the role from him? Or does the solution lie outside?

 

[Nelson1889]

I think Norwood and Fleck are both on borrowed time at the minute, both with the manager and a growing number of the fans.

I think if/when we get vieira one of them is dropped almost immediately and if we get another, garner let's say, they're both out of the team.

The only reason they weren't dropped last season is pretty much the reason they haven't this year yet and that's lack of options.

Both need to pull their socks up and quickly.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Even under Clough and Adkins our CB (Maguire) occasionally stepped out with the ball. Egan has a nosebleed if he goes over halfway and Robinson would trip over it. Norwood had one driving run where he had a shot at the end of it, the only time they backed off him all game, could do with happening more often.

 

[Foody]

I think Norwood and Fleck are both on borrowed time at the minute, both with the manager and a growing number of the fans.

I think if/when we get vieira one of them is dropped almost immediately and if we get another, garner let's say, they're both out of the team.

The only reason they weren't dropped last season is pretty much the reason they haven't this year yet and that's lack of options.

Both need to pull their socks up and quickly.

Freeman must've been watching on and thinking 'what have I got to do to get a start?'. Obviously we don't see training, but Fleck's been way off the pace for some time time now.
Maybe the signing of the more combative and defensively capable Vieira will allow us to play a more attacking player. I do quite like the idea of w midfield three of : Vieira, Berge and Freeman.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Not been a conundrum for some time now.

Needs a rest !

UTB

 

[AnstonBlade1]

We need to move on from Norwood and Fleck, they’ve ran there cause and offer nothing anymore.
We need quick creative midfielders to supply the strikers, we’ve got nobody who can produce a bit of magic out of nothing, and god forbid a midfielder score a goal.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

It doesn`t say much about the other players if we need Norwood in the centre half position to pass the ball to one of the full backs.

 

[1987]

He has to want the ball more, move more to get it, direct play more and when he gets it think more positively. Short lateral or backwards passes when he is under no pressure aren't creating space or serving any particular purpose. I notice when our midfield offload it short, they rarely want it back, which is troubling (though should it be after this long?!)

I think he could do it, but not in his current mindset.

 

[Harry's Game]

I think Pompey has called Norwood a right “Conundrum“ a few times…

Sommat like that anyway.

 

[Sheff de party]

In fact it was three years ago.

Yes he can hit a long ball to feet but he can't do anything else

Three years ago and you said “the only way is down.”

You’re a clairvoyant.

 

[Woodys Thunderbolt]

Admittedly Norwood has not been at his best recently but if it wasn't for him we would never pass the ball forwards. Also when Norwood first arrived he kicked us on massively and was the main reason we were promoted which is more than you can say for Berge who hasn't made a difference to us really.