The case for 4-2-3-1

[Bergen Blade]

Peck in a 2 without a genuine ball winner like Souza behind him

Also Burrows/Mccallum and Seriki in a 4 without more mobile defenders besides them..

I understand concerns regarding individual players, but I think some of it is based on the evidence of the unbalanced sides which we've seen this season. I'll simplify it a bit. We've seen Selles' defensively poor 4-1-5 formation fail. And now Wilder's reactional 5-2-3 formation has failed in terms of creating and scoring.

It is time to try a balanced line up that works as a unit defensively and offensively. A team that creates chances and gets the odd goal. It may make things easier defensively as well, and help us regain confidence.

The suggested team has pretty much all players in their favoured position and role. The availability of Davies may be a huge help for Peck. Them two playmaking and having the creativity and skill of Hamer and Marsh to look for could help us create. In Campbell and Ogbene we have two pacey players in the forward line to help us stretch teams (not one of them playing wing back). Seriki would add to that. There is a lot of potential for good combination play in that team. Some coming short, others bombing into space, better width with a pair on each side, it may force the opposition to chase us around, rather than just waiting and easily stopping us as we get near their box.

It is difficult to get a lot of height in the side and we may struggle at set pieces. Most are not rubbish in the air though. It's quite an athletic side.

 

[TJB.]

Not entirely relevant but do you remember when Adkins used to talk formations to the press and always gave the goalkeeper a number?

What a fucking pudding.

 

[cooperblade]

Totally agree we have to get back to 4-2-3-1. I hope Chris is working with them over the break on a back 4, not tying us to 5 at the back for the season.

The back 5 hasn’t made us any more solid and we’re not scoring goals.

I can’t understand the amount of people saying it’s got to be “2 up top”. When has throwing more strikers on the pitch has ever helped us score more goals? Creating chances is about building momentum, dominating midfield, playing forward quickly and crossing with quality. Players can arrive in the box at the right moment once we are creating chances, having 2 stuck up front getting no service and isolated doesn’t work.
Almost nobody else plays 2 forwards in the modern game.

My concern with 4-2-3-1 is that I can't see which of our current players are going to arrive at the right time to score goals. At Hull particularly, the lack of runs into the box was really noticeable. Hopefully we can coach that into some of the midfielders but I do worry that none of them have the right combination of physical tools and instincts.

 

[SharpAsAblade]

Perhaps our recent results actually highlights how important jacky Robinson was to the back 4 despite his faults

 

[groveblade]

My team for Saturday

• - - - - - - - - - - coops
• Tanganga McGuinness Mee

Seriki - - TDavies - Peck - - - - - Burrows

• - - - - - - - - - Hamer
• - - - - - - - Ings - Campbell

Subs ADavies,Bindon, McCallum, Matos,O'Hare, Ogbene, Barry,Oné, Cannon

 

[bladesince64]

I am convinced that something will drop for Campbell, Hamer or Ogbene and we'll be up and running.

Confidence is a big deal in football and can be fragile if luck seems to be bad.

Also even good players have strange celebrations, rituals, lucky charms etc.

Weird but true.

 

[FenBlade]

My team for Saturday

• - - - - - - - - - - coops
• Tanganga McGuinness Mee

Seriki - - TDavies - Peck - - - - - Burrows

• - - - - - - - - - Hamer
• - - - - - - - Ings - Campbell

Subs ADavies,Bindon, McCallum, Matos,O'Hare, Ogbene, Barry,Oné, Cannon

I like that team, though perhaps try Zatterstrom at LCB with Mee central and McGuinness on the bench instead of Bindon. Mee could guide Zatterstrom, who we are told is left footed and comfortable on the ball. He sounds a player of some potential, who may offer more in future than McGuinness, a kick it and head it type of defender who has not yet convinced us of his ability at Championship level. Likewise, I think One should be first choice attacking sub, offering physical challenge to defenders and having shown a flash of quality with the chance he created that was missed by McCallum. He could benefit from being alongside the experienced Ings, whose movement has been good in his limited appearances to date. It may also be that Tom Davies could help integrate and develop Soumare, who came with good credentials, is powerfully built but has barely been seen, apart from at Birmingham where he seemed a ray of light amid the gloom. The flaw in all this of course is concern about the ability of Ings and Davies to stay fit.

What I hope to see against Watford is movement from two forwards, offering midfield and wide players someone to pass or cross to and an end to the style of play which sees fullbacks/wingbacks reach half way then stop and turn back or sideways. We need to put pressure on opponents and not build our attacks so slowly that they can easily get numbers back to defend against a United side with one forward and nobody breaking forward into their penalty area.

I’d also like to see evidence that the general level of fitness has improved during the international break and that work has been done on the obvious weaknesses in Peck and O’Hare’s shooting and the right foot of Brooks, assuming he has been fit to train.

 

[Bergen Blade]

My concern with 4-2-3-1 is that I can't see which of our current players are going to arrive at the right time to score goals. At Hull particularly, the lack of runs into the box was really noticeable. Hopefully we can coach that into some of the midfielders but I do worry that none of them have the right combination of physical tools and instincts.

I think it's a very valid concern and we certainly haven't managed to show the required fluency to be good both offensively and defensively this season. It would be interesting to see a 4-4-2, and my main issue was with us now having to play with a back three/five.

I think people look back at the successful 3-5-2-side that Wilder played and want that back. Even a return of the overlapping centre backs are being suggested. But it was a very different team back then. There are reasons why we never could replace Basham and O'Connnell, despite loads of attempts. They were quite unique in the way they contributed to our attacks.

It was also quite rare how we, during our rise, managed to let our wing backs be genuine parts of our midfield, not just defenders liking to go forward. So on occasions we had Egan (or Wright, or Stearman) the only defender holding back, yet we found ways to avoid being hit on the break. The gradually developed combination play, involving pretty much every member of our side saw Freeman get double figures, and Stevens was superb on the other side. Duffy was all over the place and Coutts/Norwood/Fleck dictated things. They were phenomenal times!

But our current centre halves can't play like that. Tanganga is no Basham. Mee is no McConnell. We have three centre backs mostly holding back. Compared to the old Wilder team that's two fewer players contributing when we're attacking. We're currently nowhere near playing the fluent football we had during our promotion seasons and it seems difficult to just switch it on. Wide play is suffering when we don't have the numbers, nor the moves. Despite reasonable individual quality, being a wing back, effectively our only wide player, is a lot harder in what would probably be a more static 5-3-2.

 

[Champagneblade]

I guess the question here is really - do we have a striker who is genuinely suited to playing up front on their own?

I’d say we don’t.

As such I’d regret we roll back to 2018 and play 3-4-1-2 or even just give 4-4-2 a go.

 

[KMC-1889]

My concern with 4-2-3-1 is that I can't see which of our current players are going to arrive at the right time to score goals. At Hull particularly, the lack of runs into the box was really noticeable. Hopefully we can coach that into some of the midfielders but I do worry that none of them have the right combination of physical tools and instincts.

My issue with that formation is we don’t have the forwards to play it and Hamer’s starting position is too far forward, it’s easy for defenders to pick him up when they’ve only got one other lightweight striker to worry about.

I still think Hamer is better starting from deep where Arblaster/Peck play. Saw flashes of his creativity at Hull and it allows him to arrive in the box unmarked rather than pick up the ball and have to beat 4 static defende

 

[Servigliano]

I think it's a very valid concern and we certainly haven't managed to show the required fluency to be good both offensively and defensively this season. It would be interesting to see a 4-4-2, and my main issue was with us now having to play with a back three/five.

I think people look back at the successful 3-5-2-side that Wilder played and want that back. Even a return of the overlapping centre backs are being suggested. But it was a very different team back then. There are reasons why we never could replace Basham and O'Connnell, despite loads of attempts. They were quite unique in the way they contributed to our attacks.

It was also quite rare how we, during our rise, managed to let our wing backs be genuine parts of our midfield, not just defenders liking to go forward. So on occasions we had Egan (or Wright, or Stearman) the only defender holding back, yet we found ways to avoid being hit on the break. The gradually developed combination play, involving pretty much every member of our side saw Freeman get double figures, and Stevens was superb on the other side. Duffy was all over the place and Coutts/Norwood/Fleck dictated things. They were phenomenal times!

But our current centre halves can't play like that. Tanganga is no Basham. Mee is no McConnell. We have three centre backs mostly holding back. Compared to the old Wilder team that's two fewer players contributing when we're attacking. We're currently nowhere near playing the fluent football we had during our promotion seasons and it seems difficult to just switch it on. Wide play is suffering when we don't have the numbers, nor the moves. Despite reasonable individual quality, being a wing back, effectively our only wide player, is a lot harder in what would probably be a more static 5-3-2.

Exactly. A lot on here clamoured for 3 /5 at the back, but that would only work if we had half backs like Basham and O'Connell not to mention a brilliant midfield and wing backs.
Given our present players, playing 3/5 at the back means that the opposition can have more attackers safe in the knowledge that we've basically got er, just three centre backs which overworks and often outnumbers our midfield even further.
Oh for a big ballholding target man up front - I wonder what happened to him. No way would Wilder he have sanctioned the Moore sale without having a replacement.
Until January Wilder's playing with one hand tied behind his back.