The age issue - Billy & Leon

[EmleyMoorBlade]

It was interesteing yesterday afternoon to watch 34 year old Glen Murray (he will be 35 next month ! ) bully the supposed ‘stars’ at Manure. His hunger for the ball and generally his teams desire to win simply overwhelmed supposed superior opposition.
Our club captain Billy had probably his best all round game for sometime on Saturday showing the same sort of desire which he topped off with his poachers finish in the 93 minute to win the game.
Billy is ‘only’ 32 and has so much more to give to the Blades, both he and the recently much maligned Leon both worked their socks off and gave the Norwich defenders a tough afternoon.
Both Billy and Leon are both knocked by many on this forum for their ‘age’ and being past their best.
Yes we would all love a ‘wonder kid’ 20 goal a season striker but maybe, just maybe Glen Murray is showing that the best could still be to come from our front two. Helped by the much improved ball delivery following the arrival of Oli Norwood give these boys the chances they will score.
Given the choice of these two or the snort beasts on loan £8m misfiring striker we saw on Saturday I know who I would rather go for.
UTB

 

[NotFallowfieldBlade]

It was interesteing yesterday afternoon to watch 34 year old Glen Murray (he will be 35 next month ! ) bully the supposed ‘stars’ at Manure. His hunger for the ball and generally his teams desire to win simply overwhelmed supposed superior opposition.
Our club captain Billy had probably his best all round game for sometime on Saturday showing the same sort of desire which he topped off with his poachers finish in the 93 minute to win the game.
Billy is ‘only’ 32 and has so much more to give to the Blades, both he and the recently much maligned Leon both worked their socks off and gave the Norwich defenders a tough afternoon.
Both Billy and Leon are both knocked by many on this forum for their ‘age’ and being past their best.
Yes we would all love a ‘wonder kid’ 20 goal a season striker but maybe, just maybe Glen Murray is showing that the best could still be to come from our front two. Helped by the much improved ball delivery following the arrival of Oli Norwood give these boys the chances they will score.
Given the choice of these two or the snort beasts on loan £8m misfiring striker we saw on Saturday I know who I would rather go for.
UTB

I agree but I think age might have finally caught up with Clarke just doesn’t look as fast or intense when he’s playing compared with last season ? Sharp looks like hes still on it tho , can’t just rely on three 31+ strikers in a full season it would be madness

 

[Rodley]

I’m amazed anyone hasn’t suggested a new striker be signed.

 

[RossingtonBlade]

Billy was deemed past it when we signed him 3 years ago for half a million quid. Since then he has scored 66 goals in 127 games. The amount of criticism the man gets is downright disgusting.

 

[I should coco]

The amount of criticism the man gets is downright disgusting.

Tyler

Setting up another account just to defend Billy really does show your man-love for him.

You must be really biting your tongue though, to keep this new persona clean and non abusive.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I'd suggest that Leon's current problems are a lack of form and confidence, nothing to do with age.

Billy looks in great nick.

These days if a player looks after himself and is lucky with injuries, then there's no reason why they can't play into their mid-thirties. It's an extreme case, but look at Cristiano Ronaldo. They may lose a bit of pace over the years but they have also gained more experience in knowing the game and their own limitations.

It's the same in other sports; Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are still dominating mens tennis and James Anderson is still Englands best bowler.

 

[RossingtonBlade]

Billy looks in great nick.


Yes because he has a point to prove to CW.

 

[Ricky]

The age of our strikeforce (and Duffy) should've been a huge dictator in our summer recruitment following Brooks' sale.

But obviously it's not turned out to be, which is a shame, and a mistake.

Sharp looks in the best shape he's been in since signing for us but we should have started building for the future.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Billy looks in great nick.


Yes because he has a point to prove to CW.

No. Because he's a professional who takes his job seriously and has great desire to play football.

 

[Davalon]

Can't speak for everyone but I think some comments around age aren't that both are too old to contribute considerably.

More that over a long hard season it can be difficult to keep performance/fitness levels high every week when you're into your 30s, due to longer recovery times etc. Also it's reasonable that both will decline sooner rather than later and there are no younger strikers at the club to take their mantle any time soon.

 

[mattbianco1]

Even with our dinosaurs upfront, we still have an average aged squad.

We have fielded teams with an average age of 26.8 and 26.9 so far this season.

Brentford have fielded the youngest team at 24.0 and Villa the oldest at 27.5

Source: https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/durchschnittsalter/wettbewerb/GB2/saison_id/2018/plus/1

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

No. Because he's a professional who takes his job seriously and has great desire to play football.

.....and he also reads this board & it boils his piss. I know he feels the criticism.

I’ve held my hands up to this. Last season, I thought that his best days were behind him and that this was being exacerbated by not playing to his strengths. Also factoring in the signing of Wilson, I thought BS would be leaving in the summer. This wasn’t borne out of any agenda, just a view that time catches up with everyone.

However, his form in the last few games has been excellent and that of a player 5 yrs younger. He looks to have lost 1/2 stone or more, looks less barrel chested and more mobile. The quality of his finish & penalty against Hull were of a very high standard, and his goals against QPR and Norwich, show his quality as a poacher.

 

[Sean Thornton]

.....and he also reads this board & it boils his piss. I know he feels the criticism.

I’ve held my hands up to this. Last season, I thought that his best days were behind him and that this was being exacerbated by not playing to his strengths. Also factoring in the signing of Wilson, I thought BS would be leaving in the summer. This wasn’t borne out of any agenda, just a view that time catches up with everyone.

However, his form in the last few games has been excellent and that of a player 5 yrs younger. He looks to have lost 1/2 stone or more, looks less barrel chested and more mobile. The quality of his finish & penalty against Hull were of a very high standard, and his goals against QPR and Norwich, show his quality as a poacher.

" I thought that his best days were behind him"

You do know that this translates directly to "I hate Billy, his legs have gone and he's Dogshit" in forum speak don't you? I once said he'd not had a good game which turned into "he should be shot multiple times, I'll do it"

 

[Cerberus Blade]

It was interesteing yesterday afternoon to watch 34 year old Glen Murray (he will be 35 next month ! ) bully the supposed ‘stars’ at Manure. His hunger for the ball and generally his teams desire to win simply overwhelmed supposed superior opposition.
Our club captain Billy had probably his best all round game for sometime on Saturday showing the same sort of desire which he topped off with his poachers finish in the 93 minute to win the game.
Billy is ‘only’ 32 and has so much more to give to the Blades, both he and the recently much maligned Leon both worked their socks off and gave the Norwich defenders a tough afternoon.
Both Billy and Leon are both knocked by many on this forum for their ‘age’ and being past their best.
Yes we would all love a ‘wonder kid’ 20 goal a season striker but maybe, just maybe Glen Murray is showing that the best could still be to come from our front two. Helped by the much improved ball delivery following the arrival of Oli Norwood give these boys the chances they will score.
Given the choice of these two or the snort beasts on loan £8m misfiring striker we saw on Saturday I know who I would rather go for.
UTB

Did you think Leon worked his socks off? I didn't tbh. I thought he looked rather slow and disinterested and I thought the comparison with Billy was like night and day. Someone who was with me and doesn't regularly go to the games drew the same comparison, saying, "I'd be pissed off if I was Billy Sharp having done all that running around and seeing my strike partner do nowhere near as much". Anyhow, we know Clarke can be a bit of an enigma at times, so I'm just hoping he can put one in the net next game and step up a bit - if he starts playing like he did early last season then he's a real asset to the team.

Agree I'd rather have him than Rhodes though!

I think the ages of Clarke and Sharp are an issue in so much as, they are not going to go on forever and we need to start thinking about how we replace them. Having said that, Sharp looks fitter and faster than I've ever seen him! So long may that continue.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Age. Irrelevant. Stating a players legs have gone when they clearly have not is little more than trying to convince yourself !

Ability on the other hand .................

UTB

 

[FinchleyBlade]

Billy yes, Leon no. Billy has kept himself in incredible shape whilst Leon had to wear a tracksuit in redhot pre season to shed a few pounds. It shows in their performances.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It’s certainly not an ageist agenda. It’s about succession planning. Teams have cycles, and replacements need to be brought in piecemeal as opposed bulk, to help cohesion and continued success. As a club we have Sharp, Clarke and Duffy who have been instrumental in our success, they have a combined age of 97 (98 in October, 100 in February) and it’s fair to say they have fewer games in front of them, than behind them. Jake Wright, Stearman & Basham, Coutts & McGoldrick feature on the same list to a lesser/greater extent. It’s not about a brutal cull, just managing the process of replacement.

*edit: however if it’s a brutal cull you’re after Sean Thornton yer man.

 

[FinchleyBlade]

Billy was deemed past it when we signed him 3 years ago for half a million quid. Since then he has scored 66 goals in 127 games. The amount of criticism the man gets is downright disgusting.

What criticism? He is universally loved by 99% of United fans. I have no idea what you're on about.

 

[super_pig]

don't understand this 'age obsession'. if the lads are doing it on the pitch they can be 77 for all i care .

 

[Torrix1889]

I think they say "age is but a number" and it is very true. Billy & Leon's age isn't the issue for me, it is their ability to do their job.

Bill tries so hard for us, he loves the club and is desperate to do well, however there are times when it looks as though he knows what he wants to do in his head but just does not have the physical ability to achieve it. He has never been blessed with lightning pace but still tries to pull defenders wide and is often beaten to the ball. Three times at least the ball fizzed across their box on Saturday and every time it was wasted, Billy would have known where he needed to be, he has predatory instincts in that regard, but he couldn't physically get there. However, he was Jonny on the spot for the winner so we can once again gloss over everything.

Those 3 opportunities would have been gobbled up by a certain Mr Rhodes had they been at the other end.

Leon for me has lost it, he looks slower than ever, reacts 10 seconds after everyone else and simply cannot turn his man. Watch him next time, the ball gets played to his feet with his back to goal and he can't turn, instead it goes backwards or sideways. However, he was Jonny on the spot to lay on the winner so again, we can gloss over everything.

The other thing that concerns me is that we have no "out-ball" whatsoever, no player capable of running into the channels from a cleared ball and getting their head down and going for the bye-line. Neither Billy or Leon, or McGoldrick are capable of this.

If we are happy creating numerous opportunities from open play with the chance that we may get the odd shot on target then continue as we are. Billy an Leon will score, law of averages says so. If we want to push on however and challenge for the play-offs, play fast counter-attacking football to compliment our tried and tested 3-5-2 then we need attacking players with pace, not only to exploit teams on the break but to get into those positions Billy & Leon often fail to.

 

[super_pig]

I think they say "age is but a number" and it is very true. Billy & Leon's age isn't the issue for me, it is their ability to do their job.

Bill tries so hard for us, he loves the club and is desperate to do well, however there are times when it looks as though he knows what he wants to do in his head but just does not have the physical ability to achieve it. He has never been blessed with lightning pace but still tries to pull defenders wide and is often beaten to the ball. Three times at least the ball fizzed across their box on Saturday and every time it was wasted, Billy would have known where he needed to be, he has predatory instincts in that regard, but he couldn't physically get there. However, he was Jonny on the spot for the winner so we can once again gloss over everything.

Those 3 opportunities would have been gobbled up by a certain Mr Rhodes had they been at the other end.

Leon for me has lost it, he looks slower than ever, reacts 10 seconds after everyone else and simply cannot turn his man. Watch him next time, the ball gets played to his feet with his back to goal and he can't turn, instead it goes backwards or sideways. However, he was Jonny on the spot to lay on the winner so again, we can gloss over everything.

The other thing that concerns me is that we have no "out-ball" whatsoever, no player capable of running into the channels from a cleared ball and getting their head down and going for the bye-line. Neither Billy or Leon, or McGoldrick are capable of this.

If we are happy creating numerous opportunities from open play with the chance that we may get the odd shot on target then continue as we are. Billy an Leon will score, law of averages says so. If we want to push on however and challenge for the play-offs, play fast counter-attacking football to compliment our tried and tested 3-5-2 then we need attacking players with pace, not only to exploit teams on the break but to get into those positions Billy & Leon often fail to.

so if we buy someone age 23 then it's all sorted?

 

[bromtom]

Look at Donaldson towards the end of last season. Now that's a player who's "legs have gone" pulls up often holding his hamstring or calf, around 65 minutes stops running and starts falling over trying to win fouls, so obvious to see. As soon as Bill and Leon get to that stage then they'll rightly be released or transition to subs or coaching.

Hopefully a long way off.

We obviously need more strikers though but I don't think that's a reflection on our main 2.

 

[Torrix1889]

so if we buy someone age 23 then it's all sorted?

You didn't understand my post did you? I said age had nothing to do with it but ability does.

I couldn't care less how old they are.

 

[blade too long]

s

You didn't understand my post did you? I said age had nothing to do with it but ability does.

I couldn't care less how old they are.

so your saying leon and billy have no ability

both in top 12 scorers last season
1. Matěj Vydra

Czech Republic Derby County 21 (6)
2. Lewis Grabban

Jamaica Aston Villa
Sunderland AFC 20 (4)
3. Leon Clarke

England Sheffield United 19 (0)

9 Ryan Sessegnon

England Fulham FC 15 (0)
10. Jarrod Bowen

England Hull City 14 (0)

James Maddison

England Norwich City 14 (4)
12. Famara Diédhiou

Senegal Bristol City 13 (1)

Billy Sharp

England Sheffield United 13 (2)
14. Léo Bonatini

Brazil Wolverhampton Wanderers 12 (1)

if leon is so poor how on earth did he outscore Sessegnon
sessegnon must have missed bucket loads of chances

 

[SwissBlade]

It was interesteing yesterday afternoon to watch 34 year old Glen Murray (he will be 35 next month ! ) bully the supposed ‘stars’ at Manure. His hunger for the ball and generally his teams desire to win simply overwhelmed supposed superior opposition.
Our club captain Billy had probably his best all round game for sometime on Saturday showing the same sort of desire which he topped off with his poachers finish in the 93 minute to win the game.
Billy is ‘only’ 32 and has so much more to give to the Blades, both he and the recently much maligned Leon both worked their socks off and gave the Norwich defenders a tough afternoon.
Both Billy and Leon are both knocked by many on this forum for their ‘age’ and being past their best.
Yes we would all love a ‘wonder kid’ 20 goal a season striker but maybe, just maybe Glen Murray is showing that the best could still be to come from our front two. Helped by the much improved ball delivery following the arrival of Oli Norwood give these boys the chances they will score.
Given the choice of these two or the snort beasts on loan £8m misfiring striker we saw on Saturday I know who I would rather go for.
UTB

I think its about desire as much as anything, 32 is no age still and a super fit 25 year old with the desire will no doubt run rings around a 32 year old.

That said i wonder if the World cup hangover is affecting the likes of Pogba etc

 

[Torrix1889]

s

so your saying leon and billy have no ability

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying......

 

[super_pig]

You didn't understand my post did you? I said age had nothing to do with it but ability does.

I couldn't care less how old they are.

sorry i tend to equate 'pace' with 'age'

 

[DronnieBlade]

I think they say "age is but a number" and it is very true. Billy & Leon's age isn't the issue for me, it is their ability to do their job.

Bill tries so hard for us, he loves the club and is desperate to do well, however there are times when it looks as though he knows what he wants to do in his head but just does not have the physical ability to achieve it. He has never been blessed with lightning pace but still tries to pull defenders wide and is often beaten to the ball. Three times at least the ball fizzed across their box on Saturday and every time it was wasted, Billy would have known where he needed to be, he has predatory instincts in that regard, but he couldn't physically get there. However, he was Jonny on the spot for the winner so we can once again gloss over everything.

Those 3 opportunities would have been gobbled up by a certain Mr Rhodes had they been at the other end.

Leon for me has lost it, he looks slower than ever, reacts 10 seconds after everyone else and simply cannot turn his man. Watch him next time, the ball gets played to his feet with his back to goal and he can't turn, instead it goes backwards or sideways. However, he was Jonny on the spot to lay on the winner so again, we can gloss over everything.

The other thing that concerns me is that we have no "out-ball" whatsoever, no player capable of running into the channels from a cleared ball and getting their head down and going for the bye-line. Neither Billy or Leon, or McGoldrick are capable of this.

If we are happy creating numerous opportunities from open play with the chance that we may get the odd shot on target then continue as we are. Billy an Leon will score, law of averages says so. If we want to push on however and challenge for the play-offs, play fast counter-attacking football to compliment our tried and tested 3-5-2 then we need attacking players with pace, not only to exploit teams on the break but to get into those positions Billy & Leon often fail to.

There are so many things to pick you up on here, I’m just not gonna bother !!

UTB

 

[blade too long]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying......

that explains a lot then doesnt it

 

[Torrix1889]

that explains a lot then doesnt it

Of course I'm not saying they have no ability you fool....what I am trying to say is that it's all about making the most of opportunities and we aren't doing that at the moment with our existing forward line.

We won on Saturday and I am as pleased and happy as the next Blade but yet again we should have been out of sight and we weren't. We rode our luck against Norwich, a better team would have punished us and how many of those who left the ground with 5 minutes to go did so because they could see the sucker punch coming.....again?

How many times did CW say last season that we created lots but didn't take our chances? How many times did he say we should have been out of sight? How many times did we dominate possession but fail to put teams to bed?

As far as I am concerned we play good football and we create chances. If we had a better forward line we would convert more of those chances.