The accounts, our strategy and options for the future?

[Coolblade]

Looking at the accounts, it is clear we have zero prospect of breaking even through football alone and we must rely on player sales and then promotion to progress. (No sh!t Sherlock!)

Our debt position is substantial and Interest costs are huge. Without selling players, especially from the Academy, we can’t move forward and remain competitive.

That reality has consequences as developing young players is paramount. Confidence, development and resale value now matter as much as immediate results. It also means we can’t afford short term thinking, failed January windows or a manager who wastes meagre transfer cash. Sentiment can’t be the deciding factor anymore.

I’ll always respect what Wilder gave us first time round. That era was brilliant, and I fear seeing us 5th in the Prem in February, having just beaten Palace away, and signed Berge, will be our high point in my lifetime. But I’m not convinced this version of Wilder fits the club we now are financially or structurally.

1. He’s consistently tougher on young players than on loanees or senior pros. Brooks and Seriki are central to our model, yet they get called out publicly. When our future depends on developing and selling players, that’s a serious problem.
2. Recruitment under him has stalled. The last two January windows were poor with little positive impact, and with no clear plan (eg Souttar replacement, Cannon £10m, Phillips car crash
3. The football has gone backwards. Wilder Mark 1 was brave and proactive (eg replacing a centre half with Duffy when two one up away on Bouncing Day). He now sets us up not to lose, and we still lose anyway. We score first and retreat and when games swing, we are slow to react with questionable substitutions.
4. Discipline is now a constant issue, red cards, fines for club ill discipline, post match comments. For a club that needs credibility with buyers, agents and young players, that matters far more than it used to. Especially as our new owners are keen to establish us as a global brand.
5. Even the basics aren’t a strength anymore. Fitness, intensity, closing games out. These were once our edge. Now we fade late and give games away. Surely we have had long enough to sort the basics of match fitness out?

None of this makes Wilder a bad manager. It just means I’m not sure he’s now the right one for this job.

Given the finances, we need a manager who understands the model and works with it. Someone who develops young players and protects them publicly, and who plans recruitment across windows and adds value even when budgets are tight. And ideally with a clear attacking structure who can adapt during games when things change, and who is calm & disciplined.

It’s always difficult to provide suggested names. Did any of us consider Sunderland’s manager an obvious choice at the time? But just to start off (knowing every option can be criticised, so with tin hat on!)

• Thomas Frank is the obvious blueprint. Youth development, smart recruitment, tactical flexibility, calm leadership. He’s not coming here (off to Palace or back to Spurs?), but that’s the type of thinking modern clubs like ours need.
• Brian Barry-Murphy. Three years in Pep Guardiola’s shadow running Man City’s Elite Development Squad, where he helped produce Cole Palmer and Oscar Bobb. His Cardiff side are aggressive out of possession and a joy to watch on the ball. He doesn’t need a big budget, and thrives on loans and academy integration. Available if Cardiff stumble? He was booed off recently.
• John Mousinho Modern coach, clear communicator, promoted a side by building structure rather than shouting culture into place. His players improve under him and he adapts during games. Obviously Pompey are struggling at present
• Alex Blessin. A blast from the past. Currently head coach of FC St. Pauli in the Bundesliga, having previously won the Belgian Cup with Union SG and been named Belgian coach of the year at Oostende. High-pressing 3-5-2 systems. Contract runs to 2027 so he’s not free, but given St. Pauli’s Bundesliga survival battle, that could change
• Tom Cleverley. Running Plymouth Argyle in League One after doing credible work at Watford. He has shown a preference for three-man defences and dynamic play on the break Watford had more shots from fast breaks than almost anyone in the Championship in 2024/25. Young, ambitious, Premier League-connected through his playing career. Lower league proven.

The accounts make it clear we don’t have the money to get this wrong. We can’t afford managers who rely on emotion, short term fixes or burning through assets. Clubs in our position either evolve or slowly slide (eg WBA)

You can love what Wilder gave us and still accept it might be time to move on.

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

1) is in Wilder's favour: he's done outstandingly well developing Arblaster, Seriki, Brooks, Peck. Before that David Brooks. A few snowflake fans not understanding the basics of man management (which has brought them on massively) is their problem. When he's more "supportive" ( carrot rather than stick) with say Arblaster he gets called out for that. The question is this: is he getting the best out of the young players - are they improving? Yes is the answer. He's clearly added a lot of value here

2) I think there's a fair point re Jan recruitment but this is also a football club issue. We go into every Jan needing far too many players in a notoriously difficult window to recruit. One where recruits invariably aren't fit enough. The last Summer window under Wilder speaks for itself. Excellent window. The Jairo and Bamford signings probably saved us from relegation this season

3) Don't see that at all. If anything we're too gung ho this season. Our legs drop off around 60 and we're done. The sclerotic bench doesn't help.

4) Wasn't that last season? We've had a few reds I guess.

5) True but a hangover from the previous regime. We were ok last season.

Wilder is one of the best managers in the game on a budget. In summary I reject most of your thesis.

From you managerial suggestions I like Mousinho and Frank. There's more chance of me getting six numbers tomorrow than Frank coming here.

The much bigger problem United face is s hit tied down on long contracts, and a lack of quality in the squad. Diverting money to appoint a new manager and staff and sack another one won't help with that

 

[Coolblade]

Just for use of the word “sclerotic” you deserve a like! Even if we disagree.

 

[Brian Deane]

Just for use of the word “sclerotic” you deserve a like! Even if we disagree.

I preferred TCR tbh but each yo their own.

 

[54yrblade]

Given the crap fitness standards, discipline issues and game by game drop offs in the second half, I'd suggest the evidence points to a manager cast in the past and, possibly that his man management style is falling on ears that have stopped listening to him.

The only people who can judge his 'man management' are those working with him daily. What we see on the pitch suggests issues in that relationship.

And it's not on Selles either. It's his to take responsibility for.

But he won't

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

Disagree with virtually every point you've made and the fact you've suggested Thomas Frank makes it even more ludicrous. Should just take a break from following us until Wilder leaves

 

[FMBlade1]

TBF the OP said someone like Thomas Frank and accepted he's not coming here before more people pile-on.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Before I get accused of being a Wilderette which I’m not .. you seem to be a bit economical with the truth regarding his past & having success on a budget as well as developing young players . Have you forgot our financial position when he was first appointed , when came in he had to sell some of his young prized assets at the time in Ramsdale & Adams to balance the books & rebuild from scratch??… That period didn’t go too badly did it ?

With the exception of Frank who benefited massively from Brentford’s recruiting structure as for some ppls eagerness to change to an up & coming modern manager / coaches like the mentioned Barry Murphy etc he’s a list below of some others who came in with that tag & we’re hardly had sustained success ? And they’re just off the top of my head not to mention our former incumbent Mr Selles .

Will Still
Liam Manning
Neil Critchley
Des Buckingham

As for quoting astonishingly Cleverley as a success …he did absolutely fuck all at Watford & has hardly torn any trees up at Plymouth????

Some ppl are very quick to cast aside experience… Alex Neil doesn’t seem to be doing to bad at Millwall either

 

[nopigfansintown]

Given the crap fitness standards, discipline issues and game by game drop offs in the second half, I'd suggest the evidence points to a manager cast in the past and, possibly that his man management style is falling on ears that have stopped listening to him.

The only people who can judge his 'man management' are those working with him daily. What we see on the pitch suggests issues in that relationship.

And it's not on Selles either. It's his to take responsibility for.

But he won't

"The only people who can judge his 'man management' are those working with him daily. What we see on the pitch suggests issues in that relationship".

Disagree. What we're seeing on the pitch from those players is the best football of their careers and an appreciation in their transfer value. Whatever he's saying to them is obviously working.

 

[Old Programme seller]

Alex Neill is good when he’s good and sets off like a train but over night he can go to nothing, personally I’m ok with Wilder next season I’m not a firm believer but I’ve resigned myself that Klopp isn’t coming.

 

[Chilttheblade]

Disagree with virtually every point you've made and the fact you've suggested Thomas Frank makes it even more ludicrous. Should just take a break from following us until Wilder leaves

I thought it was just a long winded way of saying that he thought Wilder was crap , to which I agree

 

[blade too long]

lets face it when weve spent above 10 the returns hardly been mind blowing
we are much better polishing rough diamonds than when we are buying from Cartier

 

[bornablade]

Disagree with virtually every point you've made and the fact you've suggested Thomas Frank makes it even more ludicrous. Should just take a break from following us until Wilder leaves

The OP has put forward some constructive ideas.

May I suggest that you put forward more constructive ideas rather than just stating that he / she should take a break from following us?

 

[dexter101]

Our debt position is substantial and Interest costs are huge. Without selling players, especially from the Academy, we can’t move forward and remain competitive.

That reality has consequences as developing young players is paramount. Confidence, development and resale value now matter as much as immediate results. It also means we can’t afford short term thinking, failed January windows or a manager who wastes meagre transfer cash. Sentiment can’t be the deciding factor anymore.

I think is the biggest point. We know that this summer we will have to sell, just to cover a drop in income.

So if we need to raise £20m just from sales (which I am sure is what I saw someone mentioned), who are you selling and how much do you think we will get?

Before anyone starts casting long lists of players like Chong and McGuinness, unless we want to buy some pick a mix, they aren't generating any cash at all!

I will try and be realistic but my list is going to be:

Brooks-I think at present he is the one that will draw the most attention. If we kept him, I also think we would need to invest in someone to play the same role on the other wing. maybe £8m
Cannon- hasn't worked out but I think we might get £2m for him
Hamer- I can't see him going for big money but I don't think we are in a position to build a side around him and we probably need to find a way of doing that. £6m?
Campbell- He's done OK for us, but one I think we might get a bit of cash for, saw something about Celtic and Rangers maybe being interested. £2m
Shackleton- might be stretching it a bit here but going into the last year of his contract, maybe we could get £500k?
RND- entering last year of his contract and hasn't set the world alight at QPR (thanks Roygbiv) maybe £500k? other option here would be to sell McCallum or Burrows and have him as back up...

Struggling to find another £1m, although we have relied heavily on the loan market so maybe we can save a bit in wages...


This leaves a starting 11 with no signings or loans of:


Cooper

Tanganga Mcguiness Sasnauskas

Seriki Burrows
Reidwalde

Arblaster Peck

O'Hare

Bamford


Faxon
McCallum
Curtis
Rothwell
One
Marsh
Baptiste

 

[KMC-1889]

Wilder will be here next season, we'll have to clear around £20m in sales before he's given anything to spend. Personally I'm OK with this as long as next season is spent upgrading the clubs structure away from the pitch. A new CEO, recruitment & scouting team, medical staff, coaching staff etc... If we're still here in 12 months and no changes have been made then we'll be fighting relegation more often than chasing playoffs.

Wilder's best transfers have come when he's had to wheel and deal and spend minimal fees. His record spending money is absolutely appalling so let him have a third go at rebuilding this summer.

The debt is a concern, its a very American way of running a business - as long as you can service the debt they're quite happy running it up.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Looking at the accounts, it is clear we have zero prospect of breaking even through football alone and we must rely on player sales and then promotion to progress. (No sh!t Sherlock!)

Our debt position is substantial and Interest costs are huge. Without selling players, especially from the Academy, we can’t move forward and remain competitive.

That reality has consequences as developing young players is paramount. Confidence, development and resale value now matter as much as immediate results. It also means we can’t afford short term thinking, failed January windows or a manager who wastes meagre transfer cash. Sentiment can’t be the deciding factor anymore.

I’ll always respect what Wilder gave us first time round. That era was brilliant, and I fear seeing us 5th in the Prem in February, having just beaten Palace away, and signed Berge, will be our high point in my lifetime. But I’m not convinced this version of Wilder fits the club we now are financially or structurally.

1. He’s consistently tougher on young players than on loanees or senior pros. Brooks and Seriki are central to our model, yet they get called out publicly. When our future depends on developing and selling players, that’s a serious problem.
2. Recruitment under him has stalled. The last two January windows were poor with little positive impact, and with no clear plan (eg Souttar replacement, Cannon £10m, Phillips car crash
3. The football has gone backwards. Wilder Mark 1 was brave and proactive (eg replacing a centre half with Duffy when two one up away on Bouncing Day). He now sets us up not to lose, and we still lose anyway. We score first and retreat and when games swing, we are slow to react with questionable substitutions.
4. Discipline is now a constant issue, red cards, fines for club ill discipline, post match comments. For a club that needs credibility with buyers, agents and young players, that matters far more than it used to. Especially as our new owners are keen to establish us as a global brand.
5. Even the basics aren’t a strength anymore. Fitness, intensity, closing games out. These were once our edge. Now we fade late and give games away. Surely we have had long enough to sort the basics of match fitness out?

None of this makes Wilder a bad manager. It just means I’m not sure he’s now the right one for this job.

Given the finances, we need a manager who understands the model and works with it. Someone who develops young players and protects them publicly, and who plans recruitment across windows and adds value even when budgets are tight. And ideally with a clear attacking structure who can adapt during games when things change, and who is calm & disciplined.

It’s always difficult to provide suggested names. Did any of us consider Sunderland’s manager an obvious choice at the time? But just to start off (knowing every option can be criticised, so with tin hat on!)

• Thomas Frank is the obvious blueprint. Youth development, smart recruitment, tactical flexibility, calm leadership. He’s not coming here (off to Palace or back to Spurs?), but that’s the type of thinking modern clubs like ours need.
• Brian Barry-Murphy. Three years in Pep Guardiola’s shadow running Man City’s Elite Development Squad, where he helped produce Cole Palmer and Oscar Bobb. His Cardiff side are aggressive out of possession and a joy to watch on the ball. He doesn’t need a big budget, and thrives on loans and academy integration. Available if Cardiff stumble? He was booed off recently.
• John Mousinho Modern coach, clear communicator, promoted a side by building structure rather than shouting culture into place. His players improve under him and he adapts during games. Obviously Pompey are struggling at present
• Alex Blessin. A blast from the past. Currently head coach of FC St. Pauli in the Bundesliga, having previously won the Belgian Cup with Union SG and been named Belgian coach of the year at Oostende. High-pressing 3-5-2 systems. Contract runs to 2027 so he’s not free, but given St. Pauli’s Bundesliga survival battle, that could change
• Tom Cleverley. Running Plymouth Argyle in League One after doing credible work at Watford. He has shown a preference for three-man defences and dynamic play on the break Watford had more shots from fast breaks than almost anyone in the Championship in 2024/25. Young, ambitious, Premier League-connected through his playing career. Lower league proven.

The accounts make it clear we don’t have the money to get this wrong. We can’t afford managers who rely on emotion, short term fixes or burning through assets. Clubs in our position either evolve or slowly slide (eg WBA)

You can love what Wilder gave us and still accept it might be time to move on.

UTB

I like your match breakdowns Coolblade! Just think you have gone over the top here .Don't know whether you have wrote this to just stir the shit or maybe you feel CW has had his day.
There's enough pigs on here stirring the shit without a Blade adding to it.
Why do you think Wilder is tough on academy graduates? He doesn't treat them all the same way and knows who and when to put an arm round.
You talk of seriki and Brooks like Wilder is not fused by them but plays them as they are the best we have. Man management is the name of the game an d knowing when to be tough on players is a skill which good managers and coaches develop with knowledge which comes with experience.
Wilder may not be the manager everyone likes who would be?
He has the job of putting a squad together which can put us in with a chance of promotion why not leave him to it ! He's done it before!.
Top 8 in with a chance next season! We have to be amongst them or that would be failure and its obvious the owners can't hang about in the Championship for long!
Pressure is on !Wilder has to have our support whether some fans would like a change or not.

 

[Keen Blade]

Can we just stop Wilder from hiring flops like Cannon & Gbric and tired old gits like Mee , Rothwell , Philips & Ings ?

Let's sign some athletic lads who might develop instead of the decrepit & incontinent , sorry , incompetent

 

[Keen Blade]

I think is the biggest point. We know that this summer we will have to sell, just to cover a drop in income.

So if we need to raise £20m just from sales (which I am sure is what I saw someone mentioned), who are you selling and how much do you think we will get?

Before anyone starts casting long lists of players like Chong and McGuinness, unless we want to buy some pick a mix, they aren't generating any cash at all!

I will try and be realistic but my list is going to be:

Brooks-I think at present he is the one that will draw the most attention. If we kept him, I also think we would need to invest in someone to play the same role on the other wing. maybe £8m
Cannon- hasn't worked out but I think we might get £2m for him
Hamer- I can't see him going for big money but I don't think we are in a position to build a side around him and we probably need to find a way of doing that. £6m?
Campbell- He's done OK for us, but one I think we might get a bit of cash for, saw something about Celtic and Rangers maybe being interested. £2m
Shackleton- might be stretching it a bit here but going into the last year of his contract, maybe we could get £500k?
RND- entering last year of his contract and hasn't set the world alight at QPR (thanks Roygbiv) maybe £500k? other option here would be to sell McCallum or Burrows and have him as back up...

Struggling to find another £1m, although we have relied heavily on the loan market so maybe we can save a bit in wages...


This leaves a starting 11 with no signings or loans of:


Cooper

Tanganga Mcguiness Sasnauskas

Seriki Burrows
Reidwalde

Arblaster Peck

O'Hare

Bamford


Faxon
McCallum
Curtis
Rothwell
One
Marsh
Baptiste

That ain't a pretty sight but it's realistic.
Very short of goalscorers.
How has it come to this ?

 

[dexter101]

That ain't a pretty sight but it's realistic.
Very short of goalscorers.
How has it come to this ?

Last summer definitely has played a massive part. We have quite a few players who we all think aren't good enough, but are on long contracts so very likely we are stuck with them.

Otherwise, I think it also is an over reliance on the loans market... we are losing 6 players at the end of the season who will need replacing. The best option would be to promote more academy players...

 

[AdamSufc1997]

We're going to have seasons like this for years to come unless the owners invest. Future looks bleak

 

[Silent Blade]

Can we just stop Wilder from hiring flops like Cannon & Gbric and tired old gits like Mee , Rothwell , Philips & Ings ?

Let's sign some athletic lads who might develop instead of the decrepit & incontinent , sorry , incompetent

Wilder didnt sign Mee and Ings

 

[bladesmanluke]

We're going to have seasons like this for years to come unless the owners invest. Future looks bleak

Even if they do invest. They aren't allowed to contribute anywhere near as much as they'd need to for squad building purposes to replace the parachute payments. Our financial competitive advantage is over. It's done. They destroyed our chances in the summer

 

[Need4speed]

We're going to have seasons like this for years to come unless the owners invest. Future looks bleak

Only two of the top 6 have parachute payments, the likes of Coventry, Millwall Hull and Middlesborough have managed to create attractive competitive Championship teams on budgets less than ours so I don't think it has to be as gloomy as some make out.