'Teams will just get up against Sheffield United'...

[GrayBlade]

'And at the moment they're just not handling it' says the ex a Pig pundit on C5's Goal Rush, and his co pundit also said 'I feel for Sheffield United, it's such a great place to play football that everyone raises their game against them and they don't seem to have come to terms with that yet'.

And there lies the problem as I see it lads and lasses. It's not going to be good enough to have a 'competitive' squad. We will to have need to a squad that's physically and mentally better and tougher than the rest to get out of this league. Our current squad would probably do ok and even be pushing top six if they were playing for say Fleetwood (no disrespect meant BTW), but cannot handle the pressure of fan's expectation and the fact that other clubs raise their game because it's Sheffield United and we play at one of the best stadiums in England, steeped in history. I don't want to sound like the Pork, but the professionals have confirmed it tonight, we are most teams' cup final in this division home and away.

The other teams in this league try to do to us what we have done the the Premiership and Championship teams in the cup competitions recently. They've nothing to lose and everything to gain, and the only way we will finally break the cycle of failure will be to get together a team that's clearly head and shoulders above the rest.

Our owners and board need to understand this. Cheap as chips with the odd splash-out like Moore isn't enough. They need to listen to what the pros and ex pros have to say because IMO, I think that they've got it spot on. We don't need to put together a team like Barnsley or even Bristol to go up, we need a team like Wolves.

UTB.

 

[ZoneManWilf]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

 

[Bladesway]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

It's a little word called investment. They all did and we keep trimming the wage bill.

 

[robbiez666]

Would someone care to explain how Dave Bassett and Neil Warnock managed to do it?

I don't buy this nonsense. Not one team has actually played that well against us this season. The fact the opposition normally win headers, tackles, 50/50 balls, second balls, are fitter etc has nothing to do with anything other than the players and the management team.

 

[Ricky]

It's something I've thought before.

It's harder for us for a number of reasons, and it gets harder with every passing year we spend down here.

Our squad in our first season in L1 was head and shoulders above this division... and we still didn't get promoted. Maybe that should be a guide for the sort of quality we SHOULD be aiming for.

We've not spent as much as I'd like, we always seem to refuse to spend that extra 20% that would make the difference, but we could've assembled a very good L1 squad with what we've spent since Clough was appointed. We wouldn't even be in this division anymore if competent people were in charge of spending it.
If the 2011/12 squad shows what sort of quality we need to aim for, the amount of money we've spent on assembling utter mediocrity possibly suggests what this club would need to spend to assemble a squad of genuine quality... sadly probably more than we could ever afford! Alternatively we could start getting value for money but we all know that's impossible.

 

[Harry's Game]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

Add Wolves to that list and Realised big clubs can't sneak up on the rails like Rotherham, Yeovil and Burton and then SPENT THEIR WAY OUT, hugely so.

Give our manager, whoever it is, £25m, about what Wolves spent, chicken feed to the Al Saud family, we would walk the league.

 

[bladesmanluke]

We need to spend about the same amount Clough spent in his first season here... A lot, but it needs to be spent better than the shit he and Adkins spent it on.

 

[Roygbiv]

The only difference between us and the other "big" clubs who came down and back up are they acted like big clubs. We meekly surrendered into accepting we are now a league one club and soon started behaving exactly like one. The interview with Stuart McCall where he talked about our ambitions of going up with less budget than Rotherham speaks volumes. We look at the likes of Rotherham and Burton and naively think "Well they did it with no money" totally misunderstanding that Sheffield United are a different kettle of fish. We can't sneak up on the rails. We can't ever have an environment at this level where players are allowed to grow and make mistakes. We don't let any manager build anything.

It's been six years. The professionals saying "they still haven't come to terms with it" are probably right but after six years the current set up will never get it right

 

[Sean Thornton]

Successive managers have failed to stop this cup final scenario. Surely staff and players accept it. Basically it comes down to matching the effort of the other team. It's hardly a UEFA Pro licence issue surely?

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

Well said that man.

It's a little word called investment. They all did and we keep trimming the wage bill.

It's only partly about investment, though ? We've had enough investment in the last 6 years, spells of "austerity" notwithstanding, to get us out of this division several times over. It's about (a) getting a manager with the footballing nouse and the all-round abilities required*, and (b) assembling a squad that has a strong backline, a competent midfield, a reliable goalscorer (ideally 2 of them) and goals from elsewhere in the side. If you have those players and a manager who can organise them effectively, you can hoof it, you can tip-tap it, you can do what the hell you want with it, and it'll get you out of the 3rd.

How hard should it be for a club of our stature and resources to accomplish this over a period of 6 (sorry, 7) seasons ? Far too early in the season for despair, but it's hard not to be seriously disillusioned (again) tonight.

*I think we've had two, but we've sacked them both.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Every shit player who signs for us mentions the stadium as part of their reason for coming here, almost every time.

They think that by playing in such surroundings they've automatically made it, and that they can win games at walking pace, forgetting the fact that they are shit and must compensate for that shitness by applying the little ability they have.

United historically did very well with players of limited talent who worked to their strengths. This is no longer the case.

 

[Roygbiv]

If you think about the players who have really shined for us at this level you would list

Ched Evans
Harry Maguire
Matt Lowton
Stephen Quinn
Kevin McDonald
Jamie Murphy

The only thing I can think of that lumps these players together is that they are all Championship standard. It might simply be a case of footballing ability and less of a physiological thing

 

[Beat Jedi]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

Well I'd say we're bigger than 5 of those were when they were down here but yes very good point how did they cope??!!

 

[GrayBlade]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

Simple (well on paper). We put together a team that is better than the rest in most positions. Not just a team that with a little luck and the grace of God might clinch promotion. That's my whole point Wilf.

 

[JJBlade]

So what happened when Man City, Norwich, Forest, Southampton, The Pigs, West Brom, Leicester, Leeds were down here, how ON EARTH did they manage to get out?

Don't state the obvious ZMW
Some of our fans don't like it when there's such obvious proof that United are wank

It dispels their delusional belief that it's the fans fault


PS: Don't forget to add Sunderland, Birmingham, Derby County, Wolves and even Aston Villa many years ago to that list

 

[PokerBlade]

Fuck me, I'd hate to have to watch some of these sides when they aren't raising their game.

 

[JohnDenver]

When was the last time our team played above itself? I'll answer that for you - probably twice in the last two years, always in the cups.

We've seen it with England and we see it with United. A mentally weak outfit is doomed to fail, regardless of ability.

It will either take time and effort, or a vast transfusion of staff to rectify this. And given the bugetary constraints on the latter, we're in for a rough ride. It's a huge ask for Wilder - he needs to be the general of all generals to succeed this season.

 

[Danny_Blade]

'And at the moment they're just not handling it' says the ex a Pig pundit on C5's Goal Rush, and his co pundit also said 'I feel for Sheffield United, it's such a great place to play football that everyone raises their game against them and they don't seem to have come to terms with that yet'.

And there lies the problem as I see it lads and lasses. It's not going to be good enough to have a 'competitive' squad. We will to have need to a squad that's physically and mentally better and tougher than the rest to get out of this league. Our current squad would probably do ok and even be pushing top six if they were playing for say Fleetwood (no disrespect meant BTW), but cannot handle the pressure of fan's expectation and the fact that other clubs raise their game because it's Sheffield United and we play at one of the best stadiums in England, steeped in history. I don't want to sound like the Pork, but the professionals have confirmed it tonight, we are most teams' cup final in this division home and away.

The other teams in this league try to do to us what we have done the the Premiership and Championship teams in the cup competitions recently. They've nothing to lose and everything to gain, and the only way we will finally break the cycle of failure will be to get together a team that's clearly head and shoulders above the rest.

Our owners and board need to understand this. Cheap as chips with the odd splash-out like Moore isn't enough. They need to listen to what the pros and ex pros have to say because IMO, I think that they've got it spot on. We don't need to put together a team like Barnsley or even Bristol to go up, we need a team like Wolves.

UTB.

I don't agree that this is why we're still stuck in L1 but fair enough that is your opinion Gray. It may be a factor I suppose but only a minor one.

From my point of view it's been a combination of sheer incompetence by the owners and board members, the majority of the players signed while we've been down here lacking in character and leadership, plus the managers appointed underestimating the challenge and not exploiting their full managerial ability probably because they thought "it's only League 1 it'll be a piece of piss at this club" - I'd point particularly to both Clough and Adkins.

 

[GrayBlade]

Don't state the obvious ZMW
Some of our fans don't like it when there's such obvious proof that United are wank

It dispels their delusional belief that it's the fans fault


PS: Don't forget to add Sunderland, Birmingham, Derby County, Wolves and even Aston Villa many years ago to that list

Like I've said JJ (as you know) I'm totally onboard with what you say. But that doesn't mean that McCabe does old friend? Now try and keep up or we might FU the battle and lose the war.

 

[GrayBlade]

I don't agree that this is why we're still stuck in L1 but fair enough that is your opinion Gray. It may be a factor I suppose but only a minor one.

From my point of view it's been a combination of sheer incompetence by the owners and board members, the majority of the players signed while we've been down here lacking in character and leadership, plus the managers appointed underestimating the challenge and not exploiting their full managerial ability probably because they thought "it's only League 1 it'll be a piece of piss at this club" - I'd point particularly to both Clough and Adkins.

Jees, you don't expect me to disagree with you do you Danny? There's got to be a bit of what you say added to my view as well mate. I don't think it just black and white mate.

But I just think that we should listen to what professional players say about our perennial problem.

 

[IMABLADE]

So what your saying is that we knock Bramall lane down and build a replica the stadium at Fleetwood?

 

[Bladesway]

We need to spend about the same amount Clough spent in his first season here... A lot, but it needs to be spent better than the shit he and Adkins spent it on.

Any money Clough spent was already banked by sales and cup runs. The sales of players like Harry and Murphy only prove the point that selling good players is easy, replacing them less so.

Also, you say Clough spent a lot. He spent it in January and then was fired in May having reached a play off. I am pretty sure that had he been given another season (instead of getting Adkins in) we would have had a better and more settled side.

My point is we have no genuine investment and no continuity.

 

[Bladesway]

Simple (well on paper). We put together a team that is better than the rest in most positions. Not just a team that with a little luck and the grace of God might clinch promotion. That's my whole point Wilf.

You are right. But this means spending money. I am convinced one of the main reasons we got Wilder is because McCabe and co thought he would do it on the cheap. They could still be right but it doesn't look like it.

 

[Bladesway]

If you think about the players who have really shined for us at this level you would list

Ched Evans
Harry Maguire
Matt Lowton
Stephen Quinn
Kevin McDonald
Jamie Murphy

The only thing I can think of that lumps these players together is that they are all Championship standard. It might simply be a case of footballing ability and less of a physiological thing

Add to that Che Adams scoring yesterday. While he has something to prove we have cashed our chips in on him early rather than saying "give us another season and if we don't get promoted you can leave".

We keep selling these players and replacing them with lesser players. Will we never learn.

 

[Dnblade]

Have we really ever got the spine of the team right...A solid Keeper,2 Good Centre Backs,2 Good Centre Midfielders and at least one top striker...we may have had part of it right at times...Hopefully Simon Moore will be a good keeper for us,and although I stuck up for George a bit,a solid Keeper is a must.
Added to that,every team and set of fans looks forward to coming to the Lane,or even when we go away as it's a big game..At the Lane every Manager says the same thing.."We're not expected to win,the pressure is on them".."silence the crowd and they will turn on their own team"..They don't say that for nothing...Another ingredient we have rarely had,and if we can we'll take some stopping ..Momentum.

 

[Jehovah]

Beating Sheffield united means nothing anymore. Just about every team in league one has done it so i doubt teams feel they have to raise their game.

 

[robbiez666]

I'm pretty sure Bolton is more of a scalp this season and lordy haven't hey struggled.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Would someone care to explain how Dave Bassett and Neil Warnock managed to do it?

I don't buy this nonsense. Not one team has actually played that well against us this season. The fact the opposition normally win headers, tackles, 50/50 balls, second balls, are fitter etc has nothing to do with anything other than the players and the management team.

In answer to the first question - Bassett and Warnock were managers of that strange breed called a MAN who plays football - quite unique. They both had a mediocre football brain but knew exactly what makes a footballer tick.

"has nothing to do with anything other than the players and the management team"

I have highlighted your sentence as it is the key statement - Our present management team are confused at having to make some quick judgements on signings that they have got generally wrong. The players are therefore confused with positions/tactics and playing style.

Wilder and Knill (IMO and others) has to change tack very quickly - work out a plan to take us forward - but ultimately, it's all about the players.

UTB