Ball Sup Blog... SUFC Academy U23 v Everton

[Yogi]

Surely the ultimate gauge of quality is the output and the careers academy players ultimately end up having. You’ve got a floodlight pitch; so what? It’s easier to poach talent; well what careers are these players having?

I see it a bit like the state/public school system. Public schools generally have better facilities, better teachers and more opportunities for their pupils who in turn are more likely to succeed as a result of this. BUT, there’s plenty of state schools out there are producing far more intelligent and rounded students than many public schools are.

Given United’s reputation and list of players who’ve gone on to have successful careers (plus the fact that many of them seem to be taught to have a mature mindset), I see us as that state school that’s punching well above its weight. There’s undoubtedly some Cat A academies that haven’t and aren’t producing the quality we are, despite it theoretically being easier to do so.

That said, I’d love us to get Cat A. If the academy can work so well without it, having that status should really ramp things up.

Without diving into a detailed breakdown of Cat one academies vs Cat two in terms of production because it would take ages I’d suggest we perform like a good category two academy on that front.

The big prestigious Cat one (Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Everton) academies definitely out do us in terms of production and the average level those players play their careers at. The league system is littered with players who have come through at those clubs at all levels.

I’d then argue that the newer well run category one academies are also out producing us at this moment even if they’ve not traditionally had a better set up than us they do now. I’d have Norwich, Brighton and Leicester in this category off the top of my head.

There’s also the cat two academies who were very similar to us who’ve recently gone cat one (Leeds and Birmingham) who will now kick on having attained the higher categorisation.

That said our creative academy recruitment and good record of player development means we are competitive with a lot of category one academies and certainly out perform some such as Newcastle.

United’s youngsters mainly go into none league or leave the game behind. There’s a sprinkling of them throughout the league system but not that many really. What we seem to do well is produce a high percentage of top top level footballers but not the mid level ones to go alongside.

The frustration is we can only speculate as to how much more effective the academy would be be without the inherent disadvantages that come with being Cat two. If the aim is as the prince has stated in the past for the academy to support the first team then it will have to be more consistent in its output and that will require Cat one status to better allow us to retain and develop players. We can’t be having 4/5 year gaps between producing first team caliber players.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I've said it before. Academy football is a weird, intertwined, mutually beneficial, right place right time system. ALL our First Team Squad played Youth & Academy football. Just not necessarily for us, but maybe against us, and mainly in a league & category structure involving us.

 

[adamawdhali]

to be fair, we’ve produced quite a few players that have made a career in professional football of late but like you say, obviously nothing on some of those cat 1 academies

 

[EddieColquhoun]

 

[robbiez666]

United’s youngsters mainly go into none league or leave the game behind. There’s a sprinkling of them throughout the league system but not that many really. What we seem to do well is produce a high percentage of top top level footballers but not the mid level ones to go alongside.

I think some fail to realise this. While we have some very high profile successes there are very few Academy graduates who have gone on to have a career in football outside of those.

For instance, there are lots of say Everton academy graduates in league football. Who don't go on to make it with them but get picked up at a lower level and make a career for themselves.

Academies are designed to produce footballers so results at this level are secondary.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Everton 1-3 Under 23s - report

The Blades got off to the perfect start in the Under 23s Premier League Cup with a well-deserved win and a great performance at last season's competition winners Everton.

www.sufc.co.uk

 

[adamawdhali]

What a ball from starbuck

 

[EddieColquhoun]

 

[Houso]

That cross from Starbuck was a thing of beauty. Presumably that's his first appearance since he signed?

 

[Bergen Blade]

That cross from Starbuck was a thing of beauty. Presumably that's his first appearance since he signed?

He played vs Bristol City as well.

 

[Houso]

He played vs Bristol City as well.

Ah, fair enough. Either way, very sexy.

 

[Champagneblade]

The big prestigious Cat one (Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Everton) academies definitely out do us in terms of production and the average level those players play their careers at. The league system is littered with players who have come through at those clubs at all levels.

I’d then argue that the newer well run category one academies are also out producing us at this moment even if they’ve not traditionally had a better set up than us they do now. I’d have Norwich, Brighton and Leicester in this category off the top of my head.

I'm reluctant to go against such a well thought out post, but whilst we were in the Prem, I'm pretty sure at some point there was a star shared there players from our Academy, when measured in minutes of top flight football, were in the higher echelons.

But of a mention here from just 2 years back:

Manchester United academy products top the list for most Premier League minutes

Manchester United may have finished only sixth in the table last season but they comfortably retained their position as the leading developers of Premier League talent.

www.footballparadise.com

 

[Yogi]

I'm reluctant to go against such a well thought out post, but whilst we were in the Prem, I'm pretty sure at some point there was a star shared there players from our Academy, when measured in minutes of top flight football, were in the higher echelons.

But of a mention here from just 2 years back:

Manchester United academy products top the list for most Premier League minutes

Manchester United may have finished only sixth in the table last season but they comfortably retained their position as the leading developers of Premier League talent.

www.footballparadise.com

Yeah that’s what I meant by saying we produce a high percentage of top top level players there’s a lot of our academy graduates in the prem and playing for England. What we don’t produce but those academies do is players who are just good players who will play their careers as championship/ fringe prem players. Obviously producing great players isn’t a problem but eventually they will get sold on to help the club and there will only be so many future England internationals coming through at one time so there will naturally be big gaps in player production. If we could supplement this with producing good youngsters who will operate as championship/fringe prem players that would go a long way in helping to build a squad and we’ll hold onto them for longer. In my time watching united I think we’ve produced four off the top of my head Billy, Quinn, Lowton and maybe RND.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yeah that’s what I meant by saying we produce a high percentage of top top level players there’s a lot of our academy graduates in the prem and playing for England. What we don’t produce but those academies do is players who are just good players who will play their careers as championship/ fringe prem players. Obviously producing great players isn’t a problem but eventually they will get sold on to help the club and there will only be so many future England internationals coming through at one time so there will naturally be big gaps in player production. If we could supplement this with producing good youngsters who will operate as championship/fringe prem players that would go a long way in helping to build a squad and we’ll hold onto them for longer. In my time watching united I think we’ve produced four off the top of my head Billy, Quinn, Lowton and maybe RND.

? Ben Whiteman ?

 

[Yogi]

? Ben Whiteman ?

Whiteman definitely can’t believe he slipped my mind.

 

[Champagneblade]

Is Osula injured? I'm sure I read he'd had some growth spurts and maybe that takes some recovery in itself.

I just see the U18s took a hammering from Peterborough though in part due to the U23s fielding a younger side and losing the likes of Lankshear and Marsh and he featured in neither.

I'm pretty sure he signed some sort of deal so hope it is nothing sinister!

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Got an excuse for a Late Blog. Day/night out in Hull yesterday. Some great discussion on this thread about the Academy and it's "success". Long may that discussion continue. But for now let's just wallow in what happens in 90 minutes in the pub before the game and what happens in 90 minutes during the game. Have a read if you need.

A Latin Declension Goal

Everton U23 1 v Sheffield United U23 3 Premier League Cup, Group D Friday 17 September 2021 Played at Southport SUFC 2021/22 Game #9 Grea...

ball-sup.blogspot.com

 

[McDonagh Blade]

Is Cappello anywhere near starting in the Cup game? Seems to have been moved to full back this season. RND needs a rest and Enda probably requires another weeks training before selection.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Is Cappello anywhere near starting in the Cup game? Seems to have been moved to full back this season. RND needs a rest and Enda probably requires another weeks training before selection.

There is NO WAY Cappello can play in a back four. Absolutely NO WAY. Not even at U23 level. NO WAY I'm saying......
And if they go with three on Tuesday, I'd say Cappello is a long way from a start.

 

[Yogi]

There is NO WAY Cappello can play in a back four. Absolutely NO WAY. Not even at U23 level. NO WAY I'm saying......
And if they go with three on Tuesday, I'd say Cappello is a long way from a start.

How did starbuck look phil? At 19 he’s a late arrival to the set up and so you’d think they view him as having first team potential. The assist will get the headlines and rightly so but how about his all round game?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

How did starbuck look phil? At 19 he’s a late arrival to the set up and so you’d think they view him as having first team potential. The assist will get the headlines and rightly so but how about his all round game?

Difficult to say. One game in the future, I'll do a mote thorough "scout" on him. But I couldn't do that the other night. He's lively. All action. Involved all the time. But, I didn't watch with enough detail to judge him defensively. We played well. And he played well as part of that. As good as the others. Wouldn't have been able to pick him out as a newbie. Quite the reverse, in fact.

 

[Yogi]

Difficult to say. One game in the future, I'll do a mote thorough "scout" on him. But I couldn't do that the other night. He's lively. All action. Involved all the time. But, I didn't watch with enough detail to judge him defensively. We played well. And he played well as part of that. As good as the others. Wouldn't have been able to pick him out as a newbie. Quite the reverse, in fact.

A good start then cheers.

 

[McDonagh Blade]

There is NO WAY Cappello can play in a back four. Absolutely NO WAY. Not even at U23 level. NO WAY I'm saying......
And if they go with three on Tuesday, I'd say Cappello is a long way from a start.

Thanks for the clarity Phil