Style of play

[Swannyblade]

Anyone suggesting that we switch to a 442 needs to be reminded of what happened under Slav - we haven't got the players suited to playing that system.

I think our best bet would be to switch to a flat midfield three like we did when we were promoted under Wilder (the Lundstram for Duffy change), play McAtee in the old Didzy role (i.e. given free reign to roam and drag defenders out of position) and give McBurnie the CF position. Harsh on Archer, but we need to arrest the decline before the rot fully sets in.

My preferred line-up would look like this:



More attacking option if we're at home against weaker opposition/chasing a goal is that Slimane drops out, McAtee moves back to midfield and Archer partners McBurnie up top.

My reservation is the Slimane inclusion as he's an unknown quantity. Ideally that position would be taken by an all action box-to-box type midfielder and I don't know if he is that. Prior to his cameo on Sunday, I might have gone for T Davies but he looked miles off.

 

[Nagima]

All very good points, but the major problem still remains - what are we trying to do when we get the ball? Moving fast or slow makes no frickin difference if you don't have a plan. How are we going to score goals? When coaching my lads U12's team, that's what we keep working on.

In the Wilder years it was to create overloads out wide and recycle the ball through a No 10 and shift to where we have spare men. This evolved as we got to the PL, but as you (and others) point out, this got found out and we didn't adapt.

The past two seasons we've had MGW/Ndiaye (and to a lesser extent McAtee) and we set up with quite a solid system to free them up to play. If we still had those players we'd have a valid case of continuing to play that way as against the likes of Burnley, Luton we'd be ok. However we don't. I'm not convinced this current side finishes top 2 in the Championship.

I find it staggering that we didn't have 2 or 3 contingency plans in place in case Ndiaye left, stayed but broke a leg, stayed and form dipped..... After all the angst of Sunday, this is the thing that is boiling my piss. The evidence is there that our entire season was intrinsically linked to one player and him not leaving/getting injured/form dropping.

We're bang in trouble.

I agree with you regarding our system of play. I can't decipher it and that really spells trouble when the chips are down.

Regarding Ndiaye. He is a loss but even he would struggle in the PL. But on your point about replacements there is a lot of validity in what you say. I don't mind if a direct like for like replacement is bought but or not but at least with what you do buy have covering options for advanced roles. But we are back to last season. Archer is the new Billy. Great finisher but struggles to impose himself. Osula and Jebbison are very raw. McBurnie is injury prone and is hit and miss when he plays but at least he would work with Archer. Traore tries hard but is small. McAtee is good but playing with Archer alone up front takes away his influence.

I just don't understand how we recruit and develop a squad. A lot of the players don't fit.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Myself & the mates have been talking about this most weeks to date , at first there were mitigating circumstances with in & outs but it seems as though the side is set up to try & stop the opposition playing but we offer very little creatively / offensively & can honestly say I’ve seen no real playing pattern / style going forward .

It really does show you what Illy brought to the party in terms of creativity conjuring things up out of nothing .& we had both him & Mcatee together , only the latter now & now against superior opposition

From the back the wide centre backs are now rigidly static , the 2 x wing backs aren’t getting forward much ( Thomas 2 x early at the weekend and that was it ) and in midfield other than Hamer the others are holding players we look very laboured and lack a box to box ball carrier , Berge for all his other faults could do this on occasion

We’ve had to hit the long ball more than I’ve seen us do in a long while this season but don’t have the personnel for that , only McBurnie really fits this as a target man / hold up player , Jebbo & Osula way off PL standard at there current stages in development.

Archer will score goals the issue is gonna be supplying him due to the above & I’m sorry Traore is nowhere near this level with either skill level or physique .

We definitely seem to have lost our identity and Sundays capitulation highlighted that massively.

We’re definitely lacking in quality & depth and surprisingly some leaders out there at the moment ?
Unless there’s a new owner coming through the door in the near future which I can’t see happening any time soon & that allowed us considerable investment in Jan im sad to say I think it’s gonna be a long slog this season ( hope I’m wrong ) ….UTB

 

[Lmaobob]

It does frustrate me when people say our current players can’t play any other formation except 5 at the back. They’re professional footballers who earnt a living playing 4 at the back before they joined us, why would they be so incapable?

 

[ancientblade]

imo we need 5 in midfield rather than 5 at the back we would have more possesion in games getting another player in midfield plus it would stop teams just walking through us and putting pressure on our 3 centre backs newcastles midfielders had 10 yards of room on sunday that has to be addressed and quickly

 

[Swannyblade]

It does frustrate me when people say our current players can’t play any other formation except 5 at the back. They’re professional footballers who earnt a living playing 4 at the back before they joined us, why would they be so incapable?

It’s not that our current players aren’t capable of playing in a 4 at the back, it’s that our squad doesn’t have the players to fill in the positions that would be required further forwards. In a back 3 or 5, the width comes from the wingbacks, in a 4 we’d require wingers or wide forwards and we have neither.

 

[Lmaobob]

It’s not that our current players aren’t capable of playing in a 4 at the back, it’s that our squad doesn’t have the players to fill in the positions that would be required further forwards. In a back 3 or 5, the width comes from the wingbacks, in a 4 we’d require wingers or wide forwards and we have neither.

Then responsibility falls on Hecky for not signing players that allow us to play alternative positions. He lacks any sort of forward thinking or outside the box thinking. Just same old "5 at the back so we can sit on a 0-0 or 1-0 result"

 

[Sheffsteel]

You cant keep on this Ndiaye was the team thing. we hadnt done that badly till sun. Then for whatever reason the players decided to take a rest. agree we dont have a style but to start with last season we were still playing fast one touch and go football. Its similar to what happened with Blackwell, he stopped the creativity, and we strated struggling

I hear this quite a lot….we haven’t done badly before Newcastle.
The results were respectable but the performances (check out the possession, shots, corner stats) showed we didn't compete and there was a massive gap.
Many people say we were brilliant against Man City and should have drawn, however let’s not forget they missed a penalty and several good chances. Before McBurnie came on we hardly got in their half, at times we had 10 players back in defence for long spells as the game became an attack v defence training exercise.

The only reason the score was respectfully because our pre-game tactics were….damage limitation…..let’s put most players in defence and boot it clear.
The facial expression on Cameron Archer in recent matches is concerning, he hardly touches the ball.
Hardly anyone passes the ball to his feet, instead we boot it up front and say “chase that”.
Then little Archer is trying to outmuscle 2 large 6 foot 3 centre backs, he doesn’t stand a chance.

Last season was a frustration regards style of play and kind of showed how limited Hecky was.
Let me explain…..most matches last season had a similar pattern.
For 40 minutes we’d be average, looking like a mid table team for 40 minutes
For a 20 minute spell we played some really good one-touch passing football, we looked a top 2 team.
For a 10 minute spell we’d play terrible, couldn’t even string 3 passes together, to be honest we looked more like a relegation team.
Then for the final 20 minutes of most games, we tended to be leading, so we’d drop deeper and deeper defending on the edge of our box and punting it clear.

We’d battle out a hard fought win and due to our finances that was all that mattered.
Normally I like to see a good performance and entertainment but last year was a special year, it was essential we were promoted at any cost.

After the match I’d look at Roy’s view from and there were comments like “wasn’t impressed with Sheff Utd, they’re so average“ and “how can they be top 2”?
To be honest I could see their point, we often didn’t look good but had a great defence and the individual talents of N’Diaye and McAtee.

 

[From the pig end]

We seem in a rush to break and try and counter teams. It's probably because we know we don't have to quality to keep the ball let alone break a team down once they are in a defensive position.
But, you need quality to counter attack and hit on the break too. The passes have to be right, the touches almost perfect and the runs in the absolute right areas, otherwise you just constantly concede possession and invite pressure on your goal.

 

[Swannyblade]

Then responsibility falls on Hecky for not signing players that allow us to play alternative positions. He lacks any sort of forward thinking or outside the box thinking. Just same old "5 at the back so we can sit on a 0-0 or 1-0 result"

Tricky though innit on such a limited budget - do you try and improve the players in Plan A (the formation that has given us the most success in recent memory and got us promotion) or buy players for a Plan B? Imagine the reaction if we’d signed a load of wide players and just left them on the bench.
Slav attempted to make the switch and it cost him his job.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Last year we had the high press. Then we sold two of the players involved in that and haven't looked close to it whatsoever

Agreed. Opposition teams are getting the time they need on the ball to play how they want to play. We need to get back to the high press asap. Pick players that can do this as it's a defining factor in how we play.

Sunday was a field day tactically for Newcastle. Press us high so we can't play out from the back and then we have no option other than lumping it up to the 2 shortest players on the pitch. While so frustrating for our strikers, their defenders will not have an easier shift to put in this season.

If Mcburnie had played then the scoreline would have been completely different. Newcastle could smell blood at 3-0 and the Geordie Vampires had their feast

The players have to man up pronto !

 

[Rodley]

Park the bus and try and get a nil nil.

 

[SUFCinks]

Have to agree with basically every comment so far. I’ve been a broken record about this for about 2/3 years, constantly calling out our style of play for the worry that in the prem we will get found out and therefore we had to address it against lesser opposition before we get battered. There were better footballing teams than us in the champ and we consistently not performing.

I can’t add much more than what has already been said apart from it’s not great to watch, predicatble and the newcastle result was long overdue. I have to question our training, coaching, recruitment and tactics. We are just not set up to compete at this level. Treating every game like an FA cup giant killing is not a long term strategy for the season. Allowing teams to pin us in our half and fire shots at us all game and hope we can hold them back for 90 mins and get a cheaky goal is such a shit tactic. The quality of the opponent’s means they will almost definitely score.

I think we have been extremely naive thinking that we would come up and grind out results. The gulf in quality, and style of play is huge. We can be a defensive team but we have showed no energy, press, aggression, no desire to win 2nd balls, inability to defend crosses or track a marker. Our possession game is truly dire, our forward players are feeding of hopeless and panicked punts and lazy/loose passes.

So much work required to sort this out! I really do like Hecky but i am not convinced he’s the man for any success at the top level. If we want to compete in the top tier we have to almost reset our tactics, recruitment, coaching, with an injection of money + a couple of seasons in the champ with more composed and technically gifted players.

 

[Sheffsteel]

We had a style of play last season? I thought it was just give it to Ndiaye.

I’d say our main tactic last season was, pass it to Norwood, who’d be playing in defensive midfield demanding the ball off the other midfielders
and almost like a quarterback, he’d spray it out with a long pass onto the wing or he’d try a long forward to create a chance.
When he was having a good game Norwood was an asset however it’s a high risk/ high reward tactic.
Norwood strength and style of play results in a high chance we’ll give possession straight back to the oppostion.
In the Championship this isn’t a problem because most teams quickly turnover possession.
However at PL level retaining possession is much more important, it can be used to take pressure off your defence.

Another factor last season which is quite ironic really.
We had no set style of play, so the opposition couldn‘t design tactics to negate us because they could never be sure how we’d play.
So having little pattern or style of play actually helped us win matches, Hecky was very pragmatic and did whatever was needed to win matches, even if it was ugly.

My frustration was more about inconsistency of style within the same matches last season.
We often (usually when losing) had 15-20 minute spells where we did play some, quick passing, possession based Man City style football, so we did have it in our locker but then later in the same game we’d have 10 minute spells where every player seemed to lose basic ability to control a ball and pass it a few yards, we’d look like a league 1 team. Then in many matches our style was close out matches hanging on to the lead by parking the bus.

I know most fans would leave happy because we’d won 1-0 but I’d be thinking
we’ve struggled to beat a lower Championship team 1-0 and for the last 20 minutes we had almost everyone in defence and when ever we regained possession
we either booted it upfield straight to their defender or booted it out for a throw-in. Surely that’s a concern?

If you think back to last season Pompey used to often make comments about…..he’d say we won 1-0 but in large parts of the game we were poor and/or too defensive/ negative. He got accused of being over negative and a wind up merchant but I’d be thinking there’s some sense in these comments.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It does frustrate me when people say our current players can’t play any other formation except 5 at the back. They’re professional footballers who earnt a living playing 4 at the back before they joined us, why would they be so incapable?

I know a Brentford fan and he saw a lot of John Egan playing for them.
He always tells me how surprised he is that Egan became a top defender..says he’s, at best, average Championship standard.

He confidently says Blades have a false view of Egan because his weaknesses are hidden playing with 2 other centre backs either side of him
and he says play Egan in a back 4 and watch his form drop.

Basham was the same, even in league 1 Bash was quite average playing in a back 4
but when we played a back 5, then Bash excelled playing as right sided centre half and encouraged to get forward into midfield
or even venturing upfield into attack (like his classic late winner away at Leeds).

 

[Swannyblade]

I think the difference over the last few years boils down to this...
Last time we went up we played a 5-3-2 with an innovative tactical style that initially teams couldn't cope with and it made us greater than the sum of our parts. Over time this has regressed back to a basic 5-3-2 with an unremarkable style of play.
Player for player, we were better than most teams in the Championship so we could expect to be at least in the top 6. The thing that catapulted us to a slightly higher position was the individual brilliance of a standout player, Ndiaye (you could argue similar for MGW post-Slav).
Player for player in the Premier League we are worse than all the other team bar maybe Luton. There's no excuse for losing 8-0, but I think most of us were expecting to lose most games this season by a narrow margin.
I don't think we're good enough to play a high press in the Prem against better opposition, who all appear to be faster and more athletic than us. I think our best chance for picking up results, as boring as it may be is to sit back and be stubborn in defence and nick goals on the counter/from set plays. I still don't think that would be enough but it might save us from further embarrassment.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think the difference over the last few years boils down to this...
Last time we went up we played a 5-3-2 with an innovative tactical style that initially teams couldn't cope with and it made us greater than the sum of our parts. Over time this has regressed back to a basic 5-3-2 with an unremarkable style of play.
Player for player, we were better than most teams in the Championship so we could expect to be at least in the top 6. The thing that catapulted us to a slightly higher position was the individual brilliance of a standout player, Ndiaye (you could argue similar for MGW post-Slav).
Player for player in the Premier League we are worse than all the other team bar maybe Luton. There's no excuse for losing 8-0, but I think most of us were expecting to lose most games this season by a narrow margin.
I don't think we're good enough to play a high press in the Prem against better opposition, who all appear to be faster and more athletic than us. I think our best chance for picking up results, as boring as it may be is to sit back and be stubborn in defence and nick goals on the counter/from set plays. I still don't think that would be enough but it might save us from further embarrassment.

Good post.

Regards the comments about teams gradually sussing out our “overlapping centre back” tactic are partially correct. Think another factor was the personnel involved, by some amazing fluke I reckon O’Connell and Basham were in a tiny select group of centre backs in world football who could play that role really effectively.

The overlapping centre back role, needs a defender who excels playing down the wing with a great cross (like O’Connel who has played as left back)
or is really comfortable in midfield (like Basham who has played as right back and in midfield) and they also need to have intelligence to know when to make forward runs and also must have amazing stamina to get up and down the pitch numerous times each match. Then they need to develop a partnership/ understanding with the wingbacks, O’Connell and Stevens played together loads of times, same with Basham and Baldock, so they attacked and defended as a pairing.

When O’Connell went out injured, this tactic was never as good and also let’s not forget Basham has a few months out injured too. The replacements for O’Connell and Basham couldn’t play the overlapping centre back role as well, they lost confidence, so stopped doing it as much. One of our main threats/ tactics ended.

The high press game is also based on confidence. The defenders are more comfortable on the ball in the PL, so it’s much more difficult for this tactic to work
and every player needs to be on the same page working so hard off the ball. If just 1 player becomes tired, loses heart and stops pressing, then the others are wasting this time as you need to press as a group.

Regards you pessimistic comments regards our style and best chance to stay up…..it’s sad but you might be right.
Hecky seems pragmatic, verging on negative but in some situations negative/ cautious tactics can be the best, it worked last season. If Wilder was manager you can imagine all the sabre rattling, “we’ll play attacking front foot football with pashun” but with that approach we might lose 4-0 every week.

My view is with Hecky, we’ll be so defensive, lose 1-0 and 2-1 almost every match and be relegated. Whereas with Wilder he’ll try to win, so it could go either way…wouldn’t be surprised if Wilder kept us up (we’ve seen how he’s capable of miracles) but also wouldn’t be surprised if we end up worse and the place turns toxic.

 

[Swannyblade]

Good post.

Regards the comments about teams gradually sussing out our “overlapping centre back” tactic are partially correct. Think another factor was the personnel involved, by some amazing fluke I reckon O’Connell and Basham were in a tiny select group of centre backs in world football who could play that role really effectively.

The overlapping centre back role, needs a defender who excels playing down the wing with a great cross (like O’Connel who has played as left back)
or is really comfortable in midfield (like Basham who has played as right back and in midfield) and they also need to have intelligence to know when to make forward runs and also must have amazing stamina to get up and down the pitch numerous times each match. Then they need to develop a partnership/ understanding with the wingbacks, O’Connell and Stevens played together loads of times, same with Basham and Baldock, so they attacked and defended as a pairing.

When O’Connell went out injured, this tactic was never as good and also let’s not forget Basham has a few months out injured too. The replacements for O’Connell and Basham couldn’t play the overlapping centre back role as well, they lost confidence, so stopped doing it as much. One of our main threats/ tactics ended.

The high press game is also based on confidence. The defenders are more comfortable on the ball in the PL, so it’s much more difficult for this tactic to work
and every player needs to be on the same page working so hard off the ball. If just 1 player becomes tired, loses heart and stops pressing, then the others are wasting this time as you need to press as a group.

Regards you pessimistic comments regards our style and best chance to stay up…..it’s sad but you might be right.
Hecky seems pragmatic, verging on negative but in some situations negative/ cautious tactics can be the best, it worked last season. If Wilder was manager you can imagine all the sabre rattling, “we’ll play attacking front foot football with pashun” but with that approach we might lose 4-0 every week.

My view is with Hecky, we’ll be so defensive, lose 1-0 and 2-1 almost every match and be relegated. Whereas with Wilder he’ll try to win, so it could go either way…wouldn’t be surprised if Wilder kept us up (we’ve seen how he’s capable of miracles) but also wouldn’t be surprised if we end up worse and the place turns toxic.

I think we've been so unlucky with the RND injury as I believe he is one of few players who could be moulded into a successor for the JOC role. He's got the strength and defensive instincts to play CB, and the mobility to get up and down the pitch from his time playing as a wingback.
Anel could and should be good enough to fill the gap left by Bash but his form has dropped off a cliff.

Unfortunately I don't think we're good enough to play a high press in the Premier League. The opposition in the main are just too good and can knock it around us with ease. We haven't got the required fitness levels and athleticism to employ tactic effectively at the highest level. Equally, I don't think we're good enough to play out from the back at this level as shown by the long punts up to Archer on Sunday after a couple of sideways/backwards passes between the defence and Wes.

Could easily see it turning toxic if Wilder returned. He's a man lead by his emotions (particularly when it comes to United) which is fine when it's going well, but if it's not can lead to a lot of turbulence in the club. Would rather we teamed Hecky up with Alan Knill to be honest.

 

[Snowflake]

In possession there can't be a plan because due to the gulf in class we don't have anyone good enough to get past his opposite number ...
So we just pass it safely around without threatening the opposition until we lose it.
We have no wingers to get past people and deliver crosses.
We never play the ball beyond opposing defenders for our guys to run onto.
We are too small & weak to dominate the opposition physically.
Simply put , we have no means of putting the opposition under pressure.
Changing the manager isn't going to help coz the squad is set and there's no money.
The plan has always been to get relegated having averted disaster with one season's PL money.
We just have to grin and bear it till we return to our natural home in the Championship.

Twice early in the first half we had clear chances to score and twice in the second half we had players free in their box who failed to hit the target when they should have scored
Yes we were abysmal but clearly we do have the ability to create clear chances and have scored against the better teams we will meet.

 

[sufcboy95]

We don’t have a style of play and never have since Wilder left.
We don’t use the overlapping CBs or try to overload down the sides anymore.
We’re certainly not a possession side.
We’re not a long ball side.

We try to pass it out from the Goalkeeper but lack the players all over the pitch to unlock teams and create chances. Were very static off the ball hence why the ball just goes sideways and backwards all game

 

[Champagneblade]

Our first year up with Wilder we had a noticeable system that was more than just 352 with overlapping cbs. We had lots of movement in midfield with Lunstram arriving in the box on the right when we attacked down the left and vice versa. Enda and George also cut inside quite a bit and received the ball centrally.

The second season was a disaster as teams figured us out and we ended up with the ball going up a wing then coming back down before going up the other wing. The teams we played ran at us down the centre and exploited our weakness of holding a high line and getting caught on the turn.

The last few seasons have been more of the same except in the championship we could match or beat the opposition. But we haven't had a specific system in evidence.

We have a number of problems to fix.
1 communication and organisation.
Midfield are leaving huge gaps and are not covering off these gaps. Our defence is not cohesive especially the 3 cbs.

2. We are too slow in moving the ball in midfield. Against Newcastle we could not string 3 passes together without the last recipient being crowded and losing the ball or humping if forward.

3. There are times when you need to hoof it but we don't have the players up top for it. McBurnie to a certain extent can do it. But nothing like Beto in the Everton game who was a real handful.

4. In the earlier games we had lots of endeavour. While not winning we were hard to beat. Sunday finished our positivity. And we need to address the lack of effort quickly.

I never really subscribed to the theory that anyone figured us out myself.

Without O'Connell we were simply not able to replicate how effective we played that first season.

We were like a bird with a broken wing. Robinson, Ampadu and Bryan were all hugely inferior replacements.

Added to that Wilder had removed Duffy by that stage and we also lost some of our ability to vary the wide play too by him scheming through the middle. With Lundstram's purple patch over, we were left most of the season relying on what Baldock and Basham could fashion on their own on the right and that made us very one dimensional.

Had Wilder borrowed a keeper instead of splurging on Ramsdale and borrowed a striker or persevered more with Sharp and McBurnie with McGoldrick, he might have had the cash to properly replace O'Connell and to have given the midfield a shot in the arm.

All history now and it perhaps seems pedantic but I didn't see anyone really get the better of us while we played overlapping centre backs AND when O'Connell was fully fit.

Just my two cents of course.

 

[Working Class Hero]

I never really subscribed to the theory that anyone figured us out myself.

Without O'Connell we were simply not able to replicate how effective we played that first season.

We were like a bird with a broken wing. Robinson, Ampadu and Bryan were all hugely inferior replacements.

Added to that Wilder had removed Duffy by that stage and we also lost some of our ability to vary the wide play too by him scheming through the middle. With Lundstram's purple patch over, we were left most of the season relying on what Baldock and Basham could fashion on their own on the right and that made us very one dimensional.

Had Wilder borrowed a keeper instead of splurging on Ramsdale and borrowed a striker or persevered more with Sharp and McBurnie with McGoldrick, he might have had the cash to properly replace O'Connell and to have given the midfield a shot in the arm.

All history now and it perhaps seems pedantic but I didn't see anyone really get the better of us while we played overlapping centre backs AND when O'Connell was fully fit.

Just my two cents of course.

I don't think it was possible to replace O'Connell to be fair. I haven't ever seen a left sided centre back do what he did.

 

[Champagneblade]

I don't think it was possible to replace O'Connell to be fair. I haven't ever seen a left sided centre back do what he did.

Admittedly the criteria of quick, strong, good in the air and then add in good on the ball and decent crosser does bring down the number of candidates.

But that's why we have Scouts!

We.seemes to fancy the guy at Sampdoria but we left it very late in the window. For me, I would have had that as priority but Chris thought otherwise.

 

[Stanthemanfan]

Some top posts on this thread but one of my main gripes is when we kick off, we still do the kick off then diagonal ball wide and always lose it, iv never understood why teams do this, why not just keep possession ffs

 

[Mattblade68]

Agreed. Opposition teams are getting the time they need on the ball to play how they want to play. We need to get back to the high press asap. Pick players that can do this as it's a defining factor in how we play.

Sunday was a field day tactically for Newcastle. Press us high so we can't play out from the back and then we have no option other than lumping it up to the 2 shortest players on the pitch. While so frustrating for our strikers, their defenders will not have an easier shift to put in this season.

If Mcburnie had played then the scoreline would have been completely different. Newcastle could smell blood at 3-0 and the Geordie Vampires had their feast

The players have to man up pronto !

Newcastle game reminded me of Boro at home. Their keeper or defender chipping ball to central midfielder with acres of space who had dropped short and then sprayed to wings to attack, Boro did this on countless occasions and we let it happen, as we did Sunday..

 

[Lmaobob]

Some top posts on this thread but one of my main gripes is when we kick off, we still do the kick off then diagonal ball wide and always lose it, iv never understood why teams do this, why not just keep possession ffs

Cus it makes Hecky look clever when Archer wins a header against four 7 foot giants

 

[Keen Blade]

I never really subscribed to the theory that anyone figured us out myself.

Without O'Connell we were simply not able to replicate how effective we played that first season.

We were like a bird with a broken wing. Robinson, Ampadu and Bryan were all hugely inferior replacements.

Added to that Wilder had removed Duffy by that stage and we also lost some of our ability to vary the wide play too by him scheming through the middle. With Lundstram's purple patch over, we were left most of the season relying on what Baldock and Basham could fashion on their own on the right and that made us very one dimensional.

Had Wilder borrowed a keeper instead of splurging on Ramsdale and borrowed a striker or persevered more with Sharp and McBurnie with McGoldrick, he might have had the cash to properly replace O'Connell and to have given the midfield a shot in the arm.

All history now and it perhaps seems pedantic but I didn't see anyone really get the better of us while we played overlapping centre backs AND when O'Connell was fully fit.

Just my two cents of course.

The decision to buy Brewster as a development player instead of replacing JoC with a quality LCB , was pivotal and has crippled us.

 

[Keen Blade]

I think we've been so unlucky with the RND injury as I believe he is one of few players who could be moulded into a successor for the JOC role. He's got the strength and defensive instincts to play CB, and the mobility to get up and down the pitch from his time playing as a wingback.
Anel could and should be good enough to fill the gap left by Bash but his form has dropped off a cliff.

Unfortunately I don't think we're good enough to play a high press in the Premier League. The opposition in the main are just too good and can knock it around us with ease. We haven't got the required fitness levels and athleticism to employ tactic effectively at the highest level. Equally, I don't think we're good enough to play out from the back at this level as shown by the long punts up to Archer on Sunday after a couple of sideways/backwards passes between the defence and Wes.

Could easily see it turning toxic if Wilder returned. He's a man lead by his emotions (particularly when it comes to United) which is fine when it's going well, but if it's not can lead to a lot of turbulence in the club. Would rather we teamed Hecky up with Alan Knill to be honest.

RND not tall enough to be a CB in PL

 

[Nagima]

I never really subscribed to the theory that anyone figured us out myself.

Without O'Connell we were simply not able to replicate how effective we played that first season.

We were like a bird with a broken wing. Robinson, Ampadu and Bryan were all hugely inferior replacements.

Added to that Wilder had removed Duffy by that stage and we also lost some of our ability to vary the wide play too by him scheming through the middle. With Lundstram's purple patch over, we were left most of the season relying on what Baldock and Basham could fashion on their own on the right and that made us very one dimensional.

Had Wilder borrowed a keeper instead of splurging on Ramsdale and borrowed a striker or persevered more with Sharp and McBurnie with McGoldrick, he might have had the cash to properly replace O'Connell and to have given the midfield a shot in the arm.

All history now and it perhaps seems pedantic but I didn't see anyone really get the better of us while we played overlapping centre backs AND when O'Connell was fully fit.

Just my two cents of course.


A lot of very valid points there. JOC was a huge loss and I agree regarding regarding Ramsdale.
What I mean by figured us out is that teams defended a bit narrower so the overlap was less effective. The other side of it was that I thought that teams attacked down the centre before releasing the ball to someone coming from the wings. Whether that is down to ourselves or the opposition, either way we were very poor and haven't really had an effective system since.

 

[S6Blademan]

There is no style of play

There is no motivational manager as hecky couldnt motivate me to eat a fish supper

There is no Charisma

There are no Tactics

You take away having the best squad in the league and we are left with a poor manager out of his depth

Its time to bring Wilder back it should have been done monday morning