Strength in Depth

[Latters]

After reading the comments on here about us having a stronger squad than last year, I was just wondering if this is actually the case.

The first eleven is undoubtedly weaker in my opinion (which I have argued previously is more important than having a stronger squad as it is the eleven on the pitch that do a job), but some seem to be taking solace in the perceived strength in depth that we have.

The Fenerbahce game the other night got me thinking. Have we got a stronger squad than last season? If this was the case, surely we wouldn't have had to start the match with a right winger at right back, another right midfielder (I think, I'm not sure if Davies has a best position) at left back, a right winger on the left wing and a centre forward somewhere floating around the other wing.

We seem to have a plethora of central and right sided midfield options, attacking, defensive, somewhere in between, but everywhere else, we don't have the cover.

As it is nearly kick off time, are people happy with our summer dealings thus far and do you believe we have a stronger squad?

I remain of the opinion that we still need to sign three definite starters, actual stand out players we can rely on to drag us through a game with ability, rather than a steady performance and determination, in order to put us in with a shout of promotion. Otherwise, we will have to rely on other teams being worse than us, rather than us being particularly good. Plus, we have to hope that the only players that get injured or suspended are central or right sided midfielders. Anyone else and we've shit it.

Edit: apologies to Kazarre13 who has put a post on about our squad. I would have responded to that if I'd noticed. Although, I do like to add a poll every now and again.

 

[raul]

I always like to wait until half a dozen or so games before forming a definate opinion, but as far as I'm concerned right now I think most people are only talking it up because of the NC effect.

 

[Small Mendonca]

The starting eleven is probably weaker but the squad has more depth. Still not convinced we'll be in the top 3 best teams in the division but we'll have to see.

 

[Large Mendonca]

Certainly not looking like we'll hit the ground running ! maybe a slow burn of a season with a steady improvement ?

 

[cooperblade]

Look at the teams we put out in the home games v Posh, Brentford, Orient and Rotherham last season and the results they achieved. I expect our starting line up to be stronger in most cases next season. We're also going to have far better attacking options off the bench as well.

Higdon, Bennett and we're just about there for me (and that's without Return of the Chedi)

 

[metalblade]

Where is the option "the 1st 11 is about same as last season but the squad is stronger" ? which is about right for me defence slightly weaker maybe, midfield definitely stronger but more options for all positions, where we are still woefully short of bodies and quality is up front which as the big kick off gets closer becomes more of a concern

 

[alcoblade]

Clough talked about making a few quality signings, but I think we've gone slightly for quantity over quality. It's too early to judge, obviously, but pre season has done nothing to change that opinion.

Very worrying today in that I can only remember one shot their keeper had to save. Howard pulled a few great saves off and was the player who can hold his head up today - our keeper was MOTM against 4th division opposition. Scougal looked out of it on the left, the forward line was, on the whole, abysmal. . McNulty was invisible. McGahey gave the ball away dangerously on a number of occasions. Wallace went off early, presumably another knock.

Not one of our summer signings appear to have raised the quality on show, albeit based on pre season games which are notoriously poor indicators.

UTB

 

[Bulletnut]

We'll miss Harry, and an older Collins at the heart of our defence doesn't fill me with confidence. Still not happy with the lack of a good striker and no real sign of one being brought in, unless the Billy rumours have some foundation and then I'd be a bit happier.

A hard working squad will get you so far, Dave Bassett proved that, but I still think we're short on having a squad that'll storm through the division. We should get off to a better start than last season though

Cloughie's worked miracles so far, the cup run and the league turnaround were fantastic and based on that you have to trust in his judgement. I know there's been some cash splashed, but it's mostly been used on building a squad of players that may or may not work at this level. Time will tell, I'm still to be convinced that the new owner is all that he's supposed to be. I'd much rather us be starting the season with our first eleven the complete article. Friendlies against Fenerbache mean sweet FA to me truth be told.

 

[wizadry]

Our first 11 is definately weaker,but i'm not too sure about the squad yet,mid table finish for me and this has nothing to do with the friendlies,just my opinion of the squad so far.A few quality signings for our league could change all this,but for some reason or another,i don't think were going to get them.

 

[Going up]

NC is no dummy. The pre season results will have told him a lot about where we are and what we need. Personally, I would have been more worried if we won all the pre season matches which may have given a false sense of security. As is, it is still clear that we need a "game changer", a player that can pull a shot out of the bag and steal a few games that are heading for draws.

On another note, it is clear that the new defence will need a little time to gel. With Clough, the backroom staff and Howard, I'm sure that this will be just a matter of time.

Finally, I do feel that the squad is stronger. If our midweek game was mostly filled with squad players, that is a big positive as Davies, Reed, JCR and others are certainly pushing for starting places. Any that are slacking will soon be replaced by the likes of these.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Clough talked about making a few quality signings, but I think we've gone slightly for quantity over quality. It's too early to judge, obviously, but pre season has done nothing to change that opinion.

Very worrying today in that I can only remember one shot their keeper had to save. Howard pulled a few great saves off and was the player who can hold his head up today - our keeper was MOTM against 4th division opposition. Scougal looked out of it on the left, the forward line was, on the whole, abysmal. . McNulty was invisible. McGahey gave the ball away dangerously on a number of occasions. Wallace went off early, presumably another knock.

Not one of our summer signings appear to have raised the quality on show, albeit based on pre season games which are notoriously poor indicators.

UTB

alcoblade was it Wallace in Doyle's anchor role with Basham and Scougall to the side of him, pushing forward?

 

[alcoblade]

alcoblade was it Wallace in Doyle's anchor role with Basham and Scougall to the side of him, pushing forward?

Got to be honest fella, my eyes don't allow that level of detail, especially when he was off after 20 minutes. Played centrally with Basham, and it really wasn't clear what he was doing either .

UTB

 

[LSF]

alcoblade was it Wallace in Doyle's anchor role with Basham and Scougall to the side of him, pushing forward?

Bergen, if pushed I'd say Wallace did the anchor role but as Alco says it was hard to determine. Basham and Wallace look similar in their modus operandi whereas Doyle fufils the anchor role beyond doubt. I would hazard Doyle will start next week because from what I've seen so far he's still the best in that role.
As for the rest of em today.... Oh dear! Only Howard, Alcock, Collins and maybe Harris came out with minor credit for me.
Scougall looked a shadow of last seasons version and Murphy was less than interested.
The lack of chances created and the times we were nowhere for second and third balls was alarming.
I want to feel positive about this season but today left me flat.
Come the real thing I hope they prove me wrong....

 

[wizadry]

Bergen, if pushed I'd say Wallace did the anchor role but as Alco says it was hard to determine. Basham and Wallace look similar in their modus operandi whereas Doyle fufils the anchor role beyond doubt. I would hazard Doyle will start next week because from what I've seen so far he's still the best in that role.
As for the rest of em today.... Oh dear! Only Howard, Alcock, Collins and maybe Harris came out with minor credit for me.
Scougall looked a shadow of last seasons version and Murphy was less than interested.
The lack of chances created and the times we were nowhere for second and third balls was alarming.
I want to feel positive about this season but today left me flat.
Come the real thing I hope they prove me wrong....

Do you not feel scouggs is getting played out of position to accomodate others LSF?

 

[alcoblade]

Do you not feel scouggs is getting played out of position to accomodate others LSF?

Yep, if pre season is about experimenting, then this is a failed one.


UTB

 

[wizadry]

Yep, if pre season is about experimenting, then this is a failed one.


UTB

That makes atleast 2 of us then,lets hope cloughy knows and does something about it,because scouggs in his first full season could be great for us,although i have been known to be wrong on numerous of things.

 

[alcoblade]

That makes atleast 2 of us then,lets hope cloughy knows and does something about it,because scouggs in his first full season could be great for us,although i have been known to be wrong on numerous of things.

I suppose the fear is that Clough tries too hard to accommodate his new signings. Then again, perhaps the signing of a decent forward would open up options and make the wide men look better. Maybe we shouldn't write Scougal off in that position yet.

UTB

 

[LSF]

Do you not feel scouggs is getting played out of position to accomodate others LSF?

Well, he got shoved out left when Baxter came off and Diego and Murphy shared front duties and he looked uncomfortable.
However, I think his electric start with us last season has dumbed down to triple a power at moment.
My query is, has he had a brake put on his last season style or is it a crisis of confidence. Either way he looks ordinary lately.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

We're going to sign at least three more players, so can't really judge it until they have come in.
There's always a chance another of our best players will be whisked away before the end of August too.
I'll decide on the 1st September.

 

[Bulletnut]

We're going to sign at least three more players, so can't really judge it until they have come in.
There's always a chance another of our best players will be whisked away before the end of August too.
I'll decide on the 1st September.

Not the old "we're going to sign at least three more players" bollocks. The names and faces in the boardroom may change but the rubbish that's spouted, and even worse believed, never does. Fuck me, we get this every pre-season, every transfer window and still some of you believe.

I'm expecting us to do reasonably well this season, I'm not expecting us to be ambitious enough to make it easy though.

 

[sheffielder]

Not the old "we're going to sign at least three more players" bollocks. The names and faces in the boardroom may change but the rubbish that's spouted, and even worse believed, never does. Fuck me, we get this every pre-season, every transfer window and still some of you believe.

I'm expecting us to do reasonably well this season, I'm not expecting us to be ambitious enough to make it easy though.

Unfortunately, this about sums up my thoughts too. Slowly but surely my optimism is fading away and we still haven't adressed critical arrears in the team. From what appeared a lack of midfield numbers last season seems to have been flipped yet we still look short in there.

We even bing in mcnulty and seem to play him anywhere but up front. I know it's unpopular but I just don't get what we have tried to achieve this pre season.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I don't think the first eleven is considerably weaker, and I think the squad is stronger.
I think some over estimate some of those not currently with us, while under estimating some of the talent on our books.

 

[alcoblade]

I don't think the first eleven is considerably weaker, and I think the squad is stronger.
I think some over estimate some of those not currently with us, while under estimating some of the talent on our books.

We won't be being offered 2.5 million for any of our players as we've just received for Maguire. We can't afford either Brayford or Coady ( though good as Brayford was, we've enormously overhyped him).We could afford any of our current players if they were playing for other clubs.

You're entitled to that opinion Bob, but the wider market wholly disagrees with it.

UTB

 

[sheffielder]

I don't think the first eleven is considerably weaker, and I think the squad is stronger.
I think some over estimate some of those not currently with us, while under estimating some of the talent on our books.

Can you give samples of those over and under estimated?

 

[mattbianco1]

Where is the option "the 1st 11 is about same as last season but the squad is stronger"

That would've been my answer too.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Not the old "we're going to sign at least three more players" bollocks. The names and faces in the boardroom may change but the rubbish that's spouted, and even worse believed, never does. Fuck me, we get this every pre-season, every transfer window and still some of you believe.

I'm expecting us to do reasonably well this season, I'm not expecting us to be ambitious enough to make it easy though.

Clough has said that we've bid for Freeman ànd Bennett and will also be signing another striker (Higdon?).

Just to be clear are you saying that he's a liar or a naive idiot for believing the men in the Boardroom?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Can you give samples of those over and under estimated?

The way you'd read some if the posts on here you'd believe we had Cafu and Nesta in our back four last year. We're a league one club, Alcock and Butler will cover those positions more than adequately. If Brayford comes back then great but we shouldn't be spending more than 1M but I think Alcock will have a good season if needed to play that role, even though he lacks a beard.
McNulty is also being entirely written off as a forward option, yet someone who's been sat in a cell for the last two years and someone else who's not been performing anything like also for two years are getting fans wanting them in.
We heard the same kind of comments at periods of last season writing off players like Flynn, Murphy, Scoug, Coady, Harry, Baxter.

 

[Bulletnut]

Clough has said that we've bid for Freeman ànd Bennett and will also be signing another striker (Higdon?).

Just to be clear are you saying that he's a liar or a naive idiot for believing the men in the Boardroom?

He said Harry had sunstroke, good manager that he's been so far, he's shown that he's not above spouting bollocks just the same as all the other lying fuckers who've strung us along before.

 

[alcoblade]

He said Harry had sunstroke, good manager that he's been so far, he's shown that he's not above spouting bollocks just the same as all the other lying fuckers who've strung us along before.

What if that's what Harry told him? Surely then that's not quite spouting bollocks?

UTB

 

[JOEYDEE]

What if that's what Harry told him? Surely then that's not quite spouting bollocks?

UTB

Yeh,cos if Harry had a red face when he told him,he either had sunstroke,or he was lying ,either way NC's off the hook !
Back to the poll,we're obviously weaker now, First 11 wise,with the loss of Conor,Harry and Bray,which 3rd div team wouln't be ?
But of course,this opinion only applies till after the the Bristol game..dunnit ?
p.s think CC has done gr8 with Liverpool on their tour of USA ,love him back