Stadium and facilities redevelopment post KMC

[Scarebus]

What’s the problem with having a new stadium with great facilities? The soulless bowl argument is complete bollocks, the fans will make an atmosphere irrespective of the design.

Thinking about it you're right. The madejski is easy to pick on. On a business park, next to the M4 and rarely close to capacity. The times I've been have been awful, but it leaves an impression of that type of stadium.

 

[YES Blade]

Thinking about it you're right. The madejski is easy to pick on. On a business park, next to the M4 and rarely close to capacity. The times I've been have been awful, but it leaves an impression of that type of stadium.

With Wilder at the helm, the sky is the limit for this club. We could easily cement our place in the Premier League, so we should be thinking big when it comes to the Lane.

Having a world class stadium with great facilities (especially corporate), would take us to a new level. Guess where youngsters in Sheffield are going to want to watch football? Why would anyone be attracted to that ageing rust bucket in S6?

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

The problem with adding an extra tier onto the South Stand is that we are stuck with the current pitch position, which is the biggest issue at the Lane.

We need to think long term for a change and not just look at the hear and now. We should be moving the pitch either 90 degrees or towards the Kop/South Stand to allow the Lane End and John Street to be expanded.

Ideally we’d knock the lot down and build a poor man’s Spurs stadium.

The starting point has to be, what capacity do you want.
Realistically, what do you see as an attainable on-going crowd? Can we get consistent crowds of 40k, 50k,.60k?
I'd rather have a stadium.that we can just sell out, rather than splurge loads of money and time on a stadium that normally has spaces.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The Issue with our club (and any well run club) Is that any expenditure must have a very detailed business case,

Imagine yourself on Dragons Den explaining to the panel why they should lend you 70 million (whatever it costs) to expand.
They’ll want evidence that there’s an urgency to expand, they’ve want to know season tickets waiting list numbers, do we even have a waiting list?
and a projection of how long it would take to get their 70 million back with profit.
Regards corporate facilities they’ll want evidence that there’s a market of a few 1000 fans/ businesses willing to pay £500 a match ticket.

Lets take the Pukka Pie stand. Some are suggesting we get rid of the 800 seats.
Any panel would ask “and replace it with what”.....some of our fans would say “doesn’t matter....just don’t like the look of it...so get rid”.
So the panel would be thinking “you want to pay demolition costs to lower the capacity...so you’re suggesting to pay money to decrease revenue?”.

Ideally if i was playing Champiomship manager....I’d flatten the lot and build a 50K version of the Spurs stadium for 500 million.
but the reality of expansion is totally different to playing the PC game.
It seems the club have spoken and according to their research they believe we would benefit from an additional 5000 seats taking capacity to around 36- 37K max.

The issues the club have relates to priority.
The worse facilities in the ground is the Kop but any improvement there is unlikely to bring in much additional revenue.
In fact some are suggesting we increase leg room, meaning a reduction in capacity. Theres no way any business would pay money to lower income streams.

The usual priority which brings in massive income is corporate/ banqueting/ conference facilities.
Also these days the image created towards visitors is massive, hence many clubs now have fancy changing rooms, fancy ticket offices, fancy club shops, fancy VIP bars, fancy board rooms, fancy media/ reporters/ journalist areas. These much needed improvements would suggest the South stand is more of a priority.

 

[Jon Bon II]

Lets take the Pukka Pie stand. Some are suggesting we get rid of the 800 seats.
Any panel would ask “and replace it with what”.....some of our fans would say “doesn’t matter....just don’t like the look of it...so get rid”.
So the panel would be thinking “you want to pay demolition costs to lower the capacity...so you’re suggesting to pay money to decrease revenue?”.

It's going to be turned into more executive boxes when the kop refurbishment takes place. There's your extra revenue from the carbuncle, right there.

 

[Tom Bott]

What’s the problem with having a new stadium with great facilities?

Ask Sunderland and Chesterfield fans.

 

[YES Blade]

Ask Sunderland and Chesterfield fans.

I don’t think the problems both clubs are currently experiencing are directly linked to moving stadium.

 

[bladesmanluke]

What’s the problem with having a new stadium with great facilities? The soulless bowl argument is complete bollocks, the fans will make an atmosphere irrespective of the design.

Ask West Ham

 

[YES Blade]

Ask West Ham

Do you really need me to tell you why that’s a ridiculous comparison?

 

[bladesmanluke]

Do you really need me to tell you why that’s a ridiculous comparison?

Athletics stadium? They're all shite these bowl stadiums.

 

[YES Blade]

Athletics stadium? They're all shite these bowl stadiums.

Which athletics stadium am I suggesting we move to? If we rebuilt the Lane, we obviously aren’t going to build a stadium anything close to the London Stadium!

 

[Rochdaleblade]

Could we maybe have an early leavers stand? it could have inflatable supporters to fill your seat as you leave, to avoid offending anyone who likes to stay until the floodlights are turned off. Also valet parking would be good. if a minion could turn up at ten to four with my car all nicely warmed up and de-iced with the radio tuned to radio Sheffield

 

[Tom Bott]

I don’t think the problems both clubs are currently experiencing are directly linked to moving stadium.

Not the moving, spending 20 million or more.

Remember when we built the South stand the debt took years to repay and the team suffered as a consequence.

Money on trees doth not grow.

 

[Tom Bott]

Could we maybe have an early leavers stand?

Sponsored by Arnold Leavers ?

 

[penthouseblade]

Lets take the Pukka Pie stand. Some are suggesting we get rid of the 800 seats.
Any panel would ask “and replace it with what”.....some of our fans would say “doesn’t matter....just don’t like the look of it...so get rid”.
So the panel would be thinking “you want to pay demolition costs to lower the capacity...so you’re suggesting to pay money to decrease revenue?”.

The issues the club have relates to priority.
The worse facilities in the ground is the Kop but any improvement there is unlikely to bring in much additional revenue.
In fact some are suggesting we increase leg room, meaning a reduction in capacity. Theres no way any business would pay money to lower income streams.

The usual priority which brings in massive income is corporate/ banqueting/ conference facilities.
Also these days the image created towards visitors is massive, hence many clubs now have fancy changing rooms, fancy ticket offices, fancy club shops, fancy VIP bars, fancy board rooms, fancy media/ reporters/ journalist areas. These much needed improvements would suggest the South stand is more of a priority.

As regards the Kop, if we have the foresight to design it with safe standing/rail seating in mind, I would suggest it could be improved and increase capacity at the same time? Safe standing has more people contained within it than a normal seated stand. Apparently up to 1.8 people per normal seat space.

Safe Standing Roadshow - Why clubs should consider installing rail seats… No. 3

3. It can increase gate receipts. Dependent upon the wording of the relevant new regulations, space currently used for seating could be converted into space for substantially more standing spectators.

www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk

 

[Sheffsteel]

As regards the Kop, if we have the foresight to design it with safe standing/rail seating in mind, I would suggest it could be improved and increase capacity at the same time? Safe standing has more people contained within it than a normal seated stand. Apparently up to 1.8 people per normal seat space.

Safe Standing Roadshow - Why clubs should consider installing rail seats… No. 3

3. It can increase gate receipts. Dependent upon the wording of the relevant new regulations, space currently used for seating could be converted into space for substantially more standing spectators.

www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk

True and would love that to happen, really think safe standing would massively improve the atmosphere.

but the 1.8 to 1 ratio is that they use in Germany is unlikely to ever happen in the UK.
The government have made it clear they are only willing to accept a 1 to 1 ratio.
Maybe they’ll change their stance over time but it’s probably going to take decades.

 

[Keen Blade]

No significant money is going to be spent on BDBL in the foreseeable future. First of all the Club has to find the money to buy the ground + other properties from KMc , as per the Court ruling. Then the top priority will be to build a new training complex as publicly requested by CW. Then there is the question of funding the incremental squad improvement which gets more expensive the higher we climb. If we don't give CW the new training complex & a decent budget for players , he will be poached. In which case , there would be no logical reason to improve , let alone extend the ground.

 

[Weasel]

No significant money is going to be spent on BDBL in the foreseeable future. First of all the Club has to find the money to buy the ground + other properties from KMc , as per the Court ruling. Then the top priority will be to build a new training complex as publicly requested by CW. Then there is the question of funding the incremental squad improvement which gets more expensive the higher we climb. If we don't give CW the new training complex & a decent budget for players , he will be poached. In which case , there would be no logical reason to improve , let alone extend the ground.

Totally agree. Screw any ground improvements at the moment (other than any small cheap improvements which are essential obviously).

Money needs to be spent on acquiring the properties and upgrading the team / squad.

If/when we stay up, we then need to crack on with getting top notch training ground facilities in place, something which will help us now, and in the future. Something tangible for us to have from our new found PL money. I hope we move quickly on this once we know we are safe for another season at least.

Any serious ground improvement can wait til thereafter, its a nice to do, rather than an essential to do.

 

[YES Blade]

Totally agree. Screw any ground improvements at the moment (other than any small cheap improvements which are essential obviously).

Money needs to be spent on acquiring the properties and upgrading the team / squad.

If/when we stay up, we then need to crack on with getting top notch training ground facilities in place, something which will help us now, and in the future. Something tangible for us to have from our new found PL money. I hope we move quickly on this once we know we are safe for another season at least.

Any serious ground improvement can wait til thereafter, its a nice to do, rather than an essential to do.

Assuming we stay up this season, in the summer we should maybe start looking at the feasibility of other alternatives to McCabe's plans from 10+ years ago. I think we're a good 3 years away from doing anything for the reasons you state and any work shouldn't be rushed. We need to take a long term view, so if that means we don't do anything for 10 years, but we end up with a world class stadium in the end, so be it.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Assuming we stay up this season, in the summer we should maybe start looking at the feasibility of other alternatives to McCabe's plans from 10+ years ago.

Very nearly posted exactly this last week. I’m no engineer or architect, but after more than a decade I’d have thought it‘s probably inevitable that different plans would be made, if we do upgrade. Aesthetics, materials, costs, building techniques, main priorities, desired outcomes, etc., must all move on during so many years?

 

[I should coco]

No significant money is going to be spent on BDBL in the foreseeable future. First of all the Club has to find the money to buy the ground + other properties from KMc , as per the Court ruling. Then the top priority will be to build a new training complex as publicly requested by CW. Then there is the question of funding the incremental squad improvement which gets more expensive the higher we climb. If we don't give CW the new training complex & a decent budget for players , he will be poached. In which case , there would be no logical reason to improve , let alone extend the ground.

A very sensible post with your logical reasoning for the lack of expenditure clearly set out. Sadly it won't stop some of the fuckwits on here complaining;
"Once again United show no ambishun".

One resident 'expert' has even suggested that extending the Kop is similar to putting a conservatory on a house and will only cost a 'few million'. I confidently predict that even if we spend a further £40m on the team in the JTW/ summer, we will have the usual dopes moaning about "little club mentality".

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Could we maybe have an early leavers stand? it could have inflatable supporters to fill your seat as you leave, to avoid offending anyone who likes to stay until the floodlights are turned off. Also valet parking would be good. if a minion could turn up at ten to four with my car all nicely warmed up and de-iced with the radio tuned to radio Sheffield

I don't know what it was about your "inflatable supporters" suggestion that made me think of this...

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb413/nagroc/Suite%20Movies/Airplane-Otto.gif

 

[bornablade]

Could we maybe have an early leavers stand? it could have inflatable supporters to fill your seat as you leave, to avoid offending anyone who likes to stay until the floodlights are turned off. Also valet parking would be good. if a minion could turn up at ten to four with my car all nicely warmed up and de-iced with the radio tuned to radio Sheffield

Or we could go a step further and introduce 'Seat Share'.

A new concept designed to help those who like to turn up late and those who like to leave early. They both have the same seat. Close the kop get it re-developed and use one seat for two supporters other parts of the ground.

Running a football club the Sheffield United Way - it's called 'Overlapping Supporters'. The pundits will be analysing it at half time.

 

[SUFC Guy]

We could really so with extending somewhere by 2 or 3 thousand to take on board the new generation of fans. If new fans are looking for a pro team in Sheffield they only really have one option - thousands of seats going spare at Swillsboro but I'm sure they'd rather be at the Lane watching Prem footy. It's not going to happen if we don't have the space for them! If Wendy go up this year we will have missed a trick!

Redeveloping the Kop corners would be a start.

UTMB

 

[BushBlade]

We could really so with extending somewhere by 2 or 3 thousand to take on board the new generation of fans. If new fans are looking for a pro team in Sheffield they only really have one option - thousands of seats going spare at Swillsboro but I'm sure they'd rather be at the Lane watching Prem footy. It's not going to happen if we don't have the space for them! If Wendy go up this year we will have missed a trick!

Redeveloping the Kop corners would be a start.

UTMB

I’m just going to quote KeenBlade

No significant money is going to be spent on BDBL in the foreseeable future. First of all the Club has to find the money to buy the ground + other properties from KMc , as per the Court ruling. Then the top priority will be to build a new training complex as publicly requested by CW. Then there is the question of funding the incremental squad improvement which gets more expensive the higher we climb. If we don't give CW the new training complex & a decent budget for players , he will be poached. In which case , there would be no logical reason to improve , let alone extend the ground.

 

[SUFC Guy]

I’m just going to quote KeenBlade

No significant money is going to be spent on BDBL in the foreseeable future. First of all the Club has to find the money to buy the ground + other properties from KMc , as per the Court ruling. Then the top priority will be to build a new training complex as publicly requested by CW. Then there is the question of funding the incremental squad improvement which gets more expensive the higher we climb. If we don't give CW the new training complex & a decent budget for players , he will be poached. In which case , there would be no logical reason to improve , let alone extend the ground.

Yes mate I saw that thanks

My point is still relevant and still stands whether it happens or not

 

[Sheffsteel]

We could really so with extending somewhere by 2 or 3 thousand to take on board the new generation of fans. If new fans are looking for a pro team in Sheffield they only really have one option - thousands of seats going spare at Swillsboro but I'm sure they'd rather be at the Lane watching Prem footy. It's not going to happen if we don't have the space for them! If Wendy go up this year we will have missed a trick!

Redeveloping the Kop corners would be a start.

UTMB

Seems a fair comment but don’t think it’s possible without re-doing the whole Kop.
The Kop is a different rake to the South stand and JS stand, so could be joined up.
Besides don’t think it would look good to make that end a generic boring bowl.

Also don’t forget that the Kop extends well past the corner flag, so we are already using that space.
So if we created a curve gaining 2000 seats we’ve probably lost 1500 seats on the Kop....so we’d be spending many millions for a net gain of 500 seats max.

Keen Blade has explained the priorities perfectly to ensure we keep Wilder and progress as a club.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Seems a fair comment but don’t think it’s possible without re-doing the whole Kop.
The Kop is a different rake to the South stand and JS stand, so could be joined up.
Besides don’t think it would look good to make that end a generic boring bowl.

Also don’t forget that the Kop extends well past the corner flag, so we are already using that space.
So if we created a curve gaining 2000 seats we’ve probably lost 1500 seats on the Kop....so we’d be spending many millions for a net gain of 500 seats max.

Keen Blade has explained the priorities perfectly to ensure we keep Wilder and progress as a club.

Agree and it all makes sense. Could really do with finding capacity for new supporters in the near future though. Space and funds are an issue!

UTMB

 

[metalblade]

If they want to increase stadium capacity a good start would be to buy up the few houses and premises that remain on John st then you have more freedom to build a taller John st stand without blocking out anyone's sunlight.

 

[Davalon]

We should be more concerned on continued squad strengthening and keeping Wilder.

I've spoken to two of his mates recently and neither exuded confidence about the possible picture come the summer.

The owner has no money and needs to buy the ground.