Player Suggestion Souttar played and scored last night

[GeorgeDonis1889]

Worth pointing out that in Wilder's second stint, including the infamous 90 point season, he had a similar win percentage to Adkins, Blackwell, Kendal & Porterfield. His 3rd stint matches Hecky & Wilson.

Real club legend stuff that.

Ye "Kendal" was terrible wasn't he. How embarrassing for Wilder that.

 

[KMC-1889]

He kept us up last season with someone else's players, and got us a record points tally the season before.
Suppose it depends if you're a glass half empty or full kinda guy, how you see things.

All managers work with someone else's players.

Don't see Andoni Iraola or Xabi Alonso selling 20 players and buying 20 more so they can have their own squad.

Which managers get to overhaul the full 25 man squad so they 'have their own players'?

Starting with excuses before a ball is even kicked this season.

 

[NerdyBlade]

No need for this.

But it's alright for you to call me an entitled, spoilt brat? Makes sense.

I said in hindsight of course Brewster wasn't the right signing. Wasn't obvious at the time is my point. You've also just said in another post maybe it wasn't true about Osihmen so there's that.

I said there is always the potential that the Osihmen and David stuff was spin, but that David would have been more likely - and again, even without hindsight: if the choice was David or Brewster you take David. Better record at a higher level at the time.

I dont really care that they're embarrassing I care if they can't afford the club. If you dont understand how that makes sense its on you.

You literally said last week that the owners being embarrassing via their behaviour affects the club and their ability to sign players. Do you think that doesnt extend to CW as well? Or is it because you like him he's immune to that?

Im sure the "Bristol" fans weren't wanting their manager sacked for losing to us. Like I say just entitled and spoilt if you don't understand why he did a good job that season.

We did a good job up until Christmas, but still fucked up several times. Post Christmas, when it came to the important games and the run in, CW cost us tactically. He then cost us tactically in the final. Throughout the season, his behaviour (and the players behaviour which he sanctioned) got us numerous fines. His end goal was to get promoted, he failed because of his decisions and his tactics.

Erm i'd say that's very normal. I don't really understand why you're so worked up about his minutes in pre-season

Because you use PS to bed players in, give them a chance to make a name and put themselves in the managers thoughts for the squad. He hasn't given One that chance, or any of the AI lads, or Curits, or anyone that he didn't HAVE to use.

Did you explain this? Genuinely not sure what you are on about now

He would go after Brooks and Seriki over and over again post match. No matter what, he would be incredibly critical. He'd then drop one of them, bring them off the bench and complain. You tell me how that's development?

But ye mostly I think your arguments are nonsense. Just my opinion

Your opinion is wrong - there's actual, factual evidence that Wilder has declined and that recently he has been a tangible issue towards the team and its form/results, but we're supposed to ignore all that because he achieved for us?

 

[NerdyBlade]

He kept us up last season with someone else's players, and got us a record points tally the season before.
Suppose it depends if you're a glass half empty or full kinda guy, how you see things.

I'm a "there's a glass with water in it" kinda guy. That wasn't someone else's squad, because 75% of the signings were his recruitment team. Last season, we had a run where we had an outside chance of playoffs (I must admit, I got swept into it and believed we would) - that was always the goal when he came in.

While I appreciate CW is a very good manager, I also know he comes with a hell of a lot of baggage and seems a bit out of touch with the way the game has progressed. I also think his recruitment leaves a lot to be desired, and his treatment of academy players is worrying for a team aiming to be self sufficient

 

[FTPE]

I'm a "there's a glass with water in it" kinda guy. That wasn't someone else's squad, because 75% of the signings were his recruitment team. Last season, we had a run where we had an outside chance of playoffs (I must admit, I got swept into it and believed we would) - that was always the goal when he came in.

While I appreciate CW is a very good manager, I also know he comes with a hell of a lot of baggage and seems a bit out of touch with the way the game has progressed. I also think his recruitment leaves a lot to be desired, and his treatment of academy players is worrying for a team aiming to be self sufficient

I will accept the baggage part, it's impossible not to
Whats the deal with how he treats the academy players? Peck, Blaster and Seriki seem to flourish.

 

[NerdyBlade]

I will accept the baggage part, it's impossible not to
Whats the deal with how he treats the academy players? Peck, Blaster and Seriki seem to flourish.

He played Peck because he had to for the injury to Blaster - happened to be that he's a fucking stellar footballer. Blaster was a stellar call, gets full credit for using him

Seriki - similar to Brooks. Went after him a lot in post match stuff, would drop him then bring him off the bench and go off on him and Brooks again, which I don't see how that helps a players development or progression

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

So any actual news on Souttar or has this thread morphed into to pro wilder vs anti wilder and a bit about BBD?
Is it too much to ask that we stay on topic? Had to keep checking the thread title to remind me what I thought I would be reading about.

And on it continues

 

[MartBlade]

So you wholeheartedly believe that Brewster at the time was a better signing snd player than either Osihmen or David?

Mate - the sandwich press conference became a meme. It's permanently associated with Wilder and made him a joke.

"Neck and neck with 2 teams" that beat us every time we played them. And then when we had the advantage in the run in, Wilder played negative, shite football leading us to be completely out of the race. He then fucked the final up with the same tactics. But we should just be happy to be there, right?

"He really uses the youth": He used Peck and Arblaster because he had to, not because he wanted to. We'll never know if Curtis is ready because he never gets a sniff, same with the AI lads.

"One might not be ready" helped get a team promoted last season. Other clubs see something in him, so there's a talent there as CW let's him rot on our bench? Didn't even get a minute in friendlies we were comfortably winning ffs, but you think CW can develop youth when he has the choice to? Hell, you use Andre Brooks as an example - you mean the player CW would go after game after game and criticise? That really helps players, publicly shitting on them week in week out.

But aye, I should be greatful because he's succeeded twice and then fucked up continually since - really grateful.

You know you can enjoy the good and be critical, right?

Hopefully an objective view here… being critical is absolutely fine as you say as long as you’re fair about it. I’m a big fan of what Wilder has done for our club and I recognise that (like every other manager) he has made some mistakes too.
The problem when you read this forum is that too many people have taken fair criticism of Wilder out of all proportion and just sling mud at every opportunity.
The Brewster signing is a great example… at the time, I can’t think of many Blades who weren’t absolutely delighted to get such a highly rated and successful youngster on board. His struggles with injury destroyed the lad, which was desperately disappointing but certainly shouldn’t be a stick to beat Wilder with.
Maybe a few fans ought to think about how their ultra-critical comments could potentially cause some of the behaviours they dislike… turning to tried and trusted players rather than taking gambles on youngsters for instance?
A lot of the points the anti-Wilder brigade make would be far better received if they were balanced and less toxic towards a guy who has achieved so much for the club.
The personal abuse he gets continues to make me wonder what some Blades “fans” think the word “support” means… and I’m not directing that at you… just responding because you seem to want to bring some balance too.

 

[NerdyBlade]

Hopefully an objective view here… being critical is absolutely fine as you say as long as you’re fair about it. I’m a big fan of what Wilder has done for our club and I recognise that (like every other manager) he has made some mistakes too.
The problem when you read this forum is that too many people have taken fair criticism of Wilder out of all proportion and just sling mud at every opportunity.

The Brewster signing is a great example… at the time, I can’t think of many Blades who weren’t absolutely delighted to get such a highly rated and successful youngster on board. His struggles with injury destroyed the lad, which was desperately disappointing but certainly shouldn’t be a stick to beat Wilder with.

I think it becomes an issue when you see him repeat the mistake. He pushed for Brewster, turning down (allegedly) international talent, despite the fact that the season before he had signed McBurnie and that didn't work. At that point, you're repeating your mistakes and it becomes an issue

Maybe a few fans ought to think about how their ultra-critical comments could potentially cause some of the behaviours they dislike… turning to tried and trusted players rather than taking gambles on youngsters for instance?

There needs to be a fine balance for this, and I don't think we get that right. Instead of trying to develop youngsters like One, Curtis, the AI lads - Wilder seems happier to go out and spend on players that have at some point succeeded but either aren't currently or have just come back from injury. There needs to be a balance and I don't think we get that right. HOWEVER this argument also needs to focus purely on the development of the players, the playing of the team and the results - it shoukd never get to the point of a personal attack against the players or the manager.

 

[NerdyBlade]

And on it continues

I think it's all relevant - do we trust Wilder with the funds for Souttar, are there better alternatives out there for a lower price, can we develop someone to do the job Souttar does, or is CW right and HS and BBD are the missing ingredients to make the team succeed?

 

[tincan]

If we sign Souttar, we should announce a friendly with Leicester , so all their fans come to slag him off - pay for his wages will that....

 

[NerdyBlade]

If we sign Souttar, we should announce a friendly with Leicester , so all their fans come to slag him off - pay for his wages will that....

If we sign Souttar, he should be kept in a cryopod until match day so that he has absolutely no chance of injury

 

[Blade56]

Fuck ¡!! I've used all mine on a new rockery in the back garden.

Nothing wrong with a nice rockery, much misunderstood, bit like quiche Lorraine!

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

But it's alright for you to call me an entitled, spoilt brat? Makes sense.

Well ye that's far less abusive and you are acting very entitled.

I said there is always the potential that the Osihmen and David stuff was spin

Ok so it's not really relevant then as we don't know. At the time David and Brewster would be a coin toss really. David had been playing in the Belgian league.

We did a good job up until Christmas, but still fucked up several times

You mean we didn't win every game? We were top i think at Christmas. But he fucked up several times. Bit entitled.

He hasn't given One that chance, or any of the AI lads, or Curits, or anyone that he didn't HAVE to use.

Ok yes every youngster he plays he was forced to. I dont care that the AI signings haven't played. I just dont think this is an issue and as other players show he is happy to bring youngsters in.

Your opinion is wrong - there's actual, factual evidence that Wilder has declined and that recently he has been a tangible issue towards the team and its form/results, but we're supposed to ignore all that because he achieved for us?

You are confusing facts for your opinion constantly. You've not given any facts that proves you correct here. You come across as hysterical over Wilder.

You literally said last week that the owners being embarrassing via their behaviour affects the club and their ability to sign players

Post the quote then. If I literally said it you can go and quote can't you. Or not because like 99% of your argument it's made up nonsense.

 

[DifferentClass]

So any actual news on Souttar or has this thread morphed into to pro wilder vs anti wilder and a bit about BBD?
Is it too much to ask that we stay on topic? Had to keep checking the thread title to remind me what I thought I would be reading about.

Asking people to stay on topic here is like asking Mark Moorhouse to wesh his joggers.

 

[Blade56]

Asking people to stay on topic here is like asking Mark Moorhouse to wesh his joggers.

As you're on the subject, quiche Lorraine is misunderstood!

 

[NerdyBlade]

Well ye that's far less abusive and you are acting very entitled.

How am I being entitled? Because I want whats best for United? Because I'm happy to criticise things that need criticising? That's entitlement? You're talking out your arse.

Ok so it's not really relevant then as we don't know. At the time David and Brewster would be a coin toss really. David had been playoff in the Belgian league.

David had also played in Europe. Brewster hadn't. Which is a tougher league - Champ or Europa?

You mean we didn't win every game? We were top i think at Christmas. But he fucked up several times. Bit entitled.

We lost every game to the teams we viewed as promotion rivals. We fucked the entire run in. We fucked the Play off Final. Wanting us to not do that, expecting better from the manager who cost us is entitled?

Ok yes every youngster he plays he was forced to. I dont care that the AI signings haven't played. I just dont think this is an issue and as other players show he is happy to bring youngsters in.

I've literally said to you - he had a choice to play One, Curtis ect in preseason and he CHOSE not to. That's a decision he made to not give them an opportunity. He has decided that he doesn't want to use them. How does that help them develop?

What were his CB options for preseason? He said he doesnt want MMG or Zatterstrom, so who does he have at CB?

You are confusing facts for your opinion constantly. You've not given any facts that proves you correct here. You come across as hysterical over Wilder.

Facts about Brewster v David, facts about the playing time for academy lads in preseason, facts about the playing time for the AI lads, facts about Wilders impact in big games and the run in - choosing to ignore all of them? How does using actual evidence make me hysterical? Refusing to be critical of the manager is worse than hysterical, it's dickriding - which is fucking embarrassing

Post the quote then. If I literally said it you can go and quote can't you. Or not because like 99% of your argument it's made up nonsense.

Do you not remember our whole argument about COH 2 weeks ago?

 

[Kenilworth]

Ye Brewster was a mistake in hindsight. I dont think you can blame Wilder for not signing Oshimen in 2019 ahead of Brewster. How many of us would have? Wilder also made good signings in that time. Ramsdale we made a lot on. Berge was a great signing. Every manager gets signings wrong.

I disagree on the press conferences. That's your opinion they are a negative but I don't agree.

Disagree on the youth players. We dont know if Curtis is anywhere near ready. I don't think Wilder has an issue with youth players he has brought plenty through. Brooks, Brooks, Peck, Arblaster to name a few. Criticising him for not playing the AI signings is daft. We will see with One but he hasn't had many minutes on senior football at all and might just not be ready.

You give him 0 credit for a 92 pount season that barely anyone would have predicted us having. You class the entire season as a disaster thats his fault. No credit for rebuilding the team and having us neck and neck with 2 teams that got 100 points until the last stretch. Ye we had a really bad week and lost 3 important games. I dont think that is the manager completely fucking up the season and I think he did a great job overall that season.

Genuinely think you should be more grateful seen as you how you love him but that's up to you.

Couldn’t have responded better myself. The list was a complete set of utter drivel.

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

How am I being entitled? Because I want whats best for United? Because I'm happy to criticise things that need criticising? That's entitlement? You're talking out your arse.

Because even being top of the league at Christmas wasn't good enough. Because literally our best points total ever you class as total failure despite 2 sides having bigger budgets. Thats how you're being entitled. I dont think thats hard to grasp.

I've literally said to you - he had a choice to play One, Curtis ect in preseason and he CHOSE not to.

Ye and I dont care. Why do you think this proves he doesn't develop youngsters? You seem to think that's definitive proof he never develops youngsters. Is isnt at all so I dont know why you think you've made a brilliant point.

David had also played in Europe. Brewster hadn't. Which is a tougher league - Champ or Europa?

You're asking me which is tougher the championship or the Europa league. This is just twaddle.

Facts about Brewster v David, facts about the playing time for academy lads in preseason, facts about the playing time for the AI lads, facts about Wilders impact in big games and the run in - choosing to ignore all of them? How does using actual evidence make me hysterical? Refusing to be critical of the manager is worse than hysterical, it's dickriding - which is fucking embarrassin

Just nonsense again. Sorry but your opinion isnt fact. Your attempts at insults are embarrassing as well.

Do you not remember our whole argument about COH 2 weeks ago?

Post the quote or pipe down for a bit

 

[maxstertheblade]

Let’s hope

 

[MartBlade]

I think it becomes an issue when you see him repeat the mistake. He pushed for Brewster, turning down (allegedly) international talent, despite the fact that the season before he had signed McBurnie and that didn't work. At that point, you're repeating your mistakes and it becomes an issue

There needs to be a fine balance for this, and I don't think we get that right. Instead of trying to develop youngsters like One, Curtis, the AI lads - Wilder seems happier to go out and spend on players that have at some point succeeded but either aren't currently or have just come back from injury. There needs to be a balance and I don't think we get that right. HOWEVER this argument also needs to focus purely on the development of the players, the playing of the team and the results - it shoukd never get to the point of a personal attack against the players or the manager.

Some very fair points. I’d heard that Brewster wasn’t Wilders first choice… he wanted an experienced Prem striker but as ever with United, we wouldn’t push the boat out on wages so he had to settle for a youngster with huge potential. Always lots more than we get to see going in to these decisions I guess.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Let’s hope

39 of them are from you aren't they Max?

On the Souttar front I really do not understand why people are fretting about the injury he got with us. It's a horrific one, but it could happen to literally anyone and it's not something that often repeats itself. Not many players could suffer it and then come back to be immediately as impressive to the point where they're one of the best centre backs at the world cup.

He is the best possible centre back we could sign

 

[NerdyBlade]

Because even being top of the league at Christmas wasn't good enough. Because literally our best points total ever you class as total failure despite 2 sides having bigger budgets. Thats how you're being entitled. I dont think thats hard to grasp.

Where have I said this wasn't good enough? We lost games in the run up to Xmas that we shouldn't have lost. We then fucked the run in and the playoffs. We had an ex prem squad, prem loanees and squads similar to Burnley and Leeds - we couldn't compete with them because we went negative tactically when it mattered. Who's fault is that?

Ye and I dont care. Why do you think this proves he doesn't develop youngsters? You seem to think that's definitive proof he never develops youngsters. Is isnt at all so I dont know why you think you've made a brilliant point.

"I don't care that he's not giving the youth game time" so he isn't developing them then? When we lose strikers to injury (as we always do) and he needs to rely on One, I'm assuming a lad he hasn't given game time to will just slot in seamlessly? Let's say Seriki gets hurt, and Doherty can't finish a full 90 - wouldn't it be nice if Curtis had time with the team?

You're asking me which is tougher the championship or the Europa league. This is just twaddle.

Why is it? You stated that Brewster was the better option, and that David had only played in Belgium. I'm stating he also played in the Europa league, where there is a higher calibre of player to play against (he also succeeded un the EL). But because it doesn't suit your narrative its twaddle?

Just nonsense again. Sorry but your opinion isnt fact. Your attempts at insults are embarrassing as well.

Which one of the facts i post is nonsense? I've given you specifics about playing time and decisions - i can go in depth on formations and tactics too to show decisions that Wilder made that cost us if you like? Because theyre actual facts - you've yet to back anything you've said up with any tangible evidence

Post the quote or pipe down for a bit

Firstly, rude - understand you're drowning, but theres no need to start flailing around like that is there?
Secondly - all of this is because I dared to say Wilder has made missteps and is becoming detrimental if things don't change. Do you think you're maybe becoming a bit too parasocial to CW and his success?

 

[Pedro Verde]

Cant wait for the kids to go back to school

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

We lost games in the run up to Xmas that we shouldn't have lost.

We lost 2 games before Christmas both in October. So that's complete nonsense isnt it? Even you must admit that is utter nonsense yes? If not we're done I'm not wasting my time with this drivel anymore if you cant accept basic stuff like that.

Which one of the facts i post is nonsense? I've given you specifics about playing time and decisions - i can go in depth on formations and tactics too to show decisions that Wilder made that cost us if you like? Because theyre actual facts

Surely you do understand that your opinion on what tactics we should have used isnt fact? I don't understand what you think a fact is at this point.

Firstly, rude - understand you're drowning

No I'm getting fed of you because you've just made that up haven't you? Admit you've made it up, quote it or shut up about it.

 

[ben1987]

39 of them are from you aren't they Max?

On the Souttar front I really do not understand why people are fretting about the injury he got with us. It's a horrific one, but it could happen to literally anyone and it's not something that often repeats itself. Not many players could suffer it and then come back to be immediately as impressive to the point where they're one of the best centre backs at the world cup.

He is the best possible centre back we could sign

It’s not the only serious injury he’s had though. He’s also missed a year with an ACL injury similar to Arblaster.

he’s also had other minor issues and will also likely miss 4/5 games this season due to the Asia cup.

The most league games he’s ever played in one season is 34 and then the second most is 21.

Yes, he’s about the best CB signing we can hope for but it is also a bit worrying that we are putting all our eggs in the basket of one player who is highly unlikely to be available for the full season.

People are right to be a little apprehensive.

 

[Greenwich Blade]

Ye

Okay, I've stayed out of this but I can remain silent no longer.

What the flinking blip does "Ye" actually mean?

 

[NerdyBlade]

We lost 2 games before Christmas both in October. So that's complete nonsense isnt it? Even you must admit that is utter nonsense yes? If not we're done I'm not wasting my time with this drivel anymore if you cant accept basic stuff like that.

We lost to Leeds and Boro in October, then lost to Burnley on Boxing Day - we also drew with Norwich, Portsmouth, Coventry and WBA twice. You're telling me that a stellar team, a team that should be commended, isn't winning games against WBA and Portsmouth? Hell, in that list there we lost to 2 of our promotion rivals - how do you expect to be promoted if you can't beat them? Setting up negatively against them (which we did) 100% doesn’t help.

Surely you do understand that your opinion on what tactics we should have used isnt fact? I don't understand what you think a fact is at this point.

So you're telling me the tactical changes that Wilder made in big games weren't negative? For example - we played 4-4-2 against Burnley on Boxing Day, as opposed to our usual 4-2-3-1: that's a negative change? Or is that magically not factual?

No I'm getting fed of you because you've just made that up haven't you? Admit you've made it up, quote it or shut up about it.

You literally argued with me last week about how embarrassing COH were for sacking Wilder and refusing to pay COH and that it's embarrassing. All of that stemmed from the CW sacking, as this did from my criticism of Wilder

At thr end of the day - it's a game. You're allowed to criticise decisions and managers. You don't need to be so attached to them, as they won't be here forever. They don't need you protecting them - other people are allowed opinions too, and its about time you realised that without flailing about

 

[NerdyBlade]

Okay, I've stayed out of this but I can remain silent no longer.

What the flinking blip does "Ye" actually mean?

The S is worn out from him typing "Sir Chris Wilder" over and over again, so sometimes it doesn't complete the Yes

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

We lost games in the run up to Xmas that we shouldn't have lost

We lost to Leeds and Boro in October

So you made up the games we lost in the run up to Christmas just like you made up me claiming the owners being embarrassing will impact signings.

Not worth responding to now. You're just making nonsense claims then moving on to something else when it's pointed out.

Do us some tactical analysis of the games we lost in the run up to Xmas and come back when you've done it