Sleeping Giants? - Blades "catatonic"

[blade too long]

The position of the last 5 years is probably below where we've been most of our life as a club

apart from 80 to 86

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

the Old Etonians are still doing very nicely thank you JonnyRed

Are they playing in that old school league called the Arthurian League with other teams like Corinthian Casuals and have the old original football league rules??

 

[Silent Blade]

Are they playing in that old school league called the Arthurian League with other teams like Corinthian Casuals and have the old original football league rules??

I remember a mate telling me that Geoff Arnold (Surrey and England cricketer) once played in a friendly football match for Corinthian Casuals at his school in Walton on Thames in the early 1970s. After the match a group of his schoolmates got into the changing rooms and saw Geoff Arnold having a shower. They all rushed back into the school to tell their mates "I have just seen Geoff Arnold's prick!"

 

[Northern Rivers Blade]

No Wolves in the list, I'm surprised at that.

Wolves meet all the criteria (crowds over 50k etc). They won the FA Cup in 1960, making them the third sleepiest giant, after us and the other lot.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Sheffield, Nottingham, Bristol...all major cities with 2 teams and all have suffered malaises in one way or another the past 15-20 years.

Regards Forest...if you take away the Clough era which is where most of the successes occurred then there aint a lot left to celebrate save for two Cup wins, 1898 and 1959.

 

[vorpal blade]

I don't know what league they play in, but come rain or shine, recession or depression, Old Etonians seem to do alright for themselves.

Let's not have a round table discussion about the Arthurian League.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Here's an idea... A breakaway 'Sleeping Giants League'

Blades
Wolves
Piggies
Forest
Bolton
Blackpool
Huddersfield
Preston
Weeds
Brummidgeham
Bristol City
Coventry
Portsmouth
Wimbledon
Villa
Ipswich
Burnley
Fulham
Charlton

I reckon it would be pretty competetive with the majority on a level playing field

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Here's an idea... A breakaway 'Sleeping Giants League'

Blades
Wolves
Piggies
Forest
Bolton
Blackpool
Huddersfield
Preston
Weeds
Brummidgeham
Bristol City
Coventry
Portsmouth
Wimbledon
Villa
Ipswich
Burnley
Fulham
Charlton

I reckon it would be pretty competetive with the majority on a level playing field

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Ooh 'eck mi pesky phone doing double posts again sorry!

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

"Sleeping Giant"

I think "living on past glories and constantly failing" ... harsh, but my red and white glasses came off years ago.

applicable to not only us, but many, including the majority from the PL.

If the term applies, let it be for a club such as Everton.

Last major honour 1995 (FACup), constantly in the top flight of English football, but nothing of any note apart from a FA Cup final defeat in 2009.
Excursions into Europe, but nothing of major note. Even Middlesbrough, Fulham & Celtic reached European finals this century, who don't compare with Everton.

We're still in the pubescent era compared to being a "Sleeping Giant".

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Are they playing in that old school league called the Arthurian League with other teams like Corinthian Casuals and have the old original football league rules??

I don't know what league they play in, but come rain or shine, recession or depression, Old Etonians seem to do alright for themselves.

Let's not have a round table discussion about the Arthurian League.

League for the Old Boys of public schools apparently

 

[Bladesway]

Sheffield, Nottingham, Bristol...all major cities with 2 teams and all have suffered malaises in one way or another the past 15-20 years.

Regards Forest...if you take away the Clough era which is where most of the successes occurred then there aint a lot left to celebrate save for two Cup wins, 1898 and 1959.

That said a league title and 2 European Cups in my lifetime is some achievement for what has always been a provincial club. They were part of the establishment of the top division for a while as well. I'd accept that alone without winning the cups.

 

[super_pig]

Giant?

Let's not get too drunk on a term that's used and abused on many a footballer and club.

We've NEVER been a Giant, nor will we ever will be, not in this lifetime.

we were Man Utd at the turn of the century.. last century unfortunately

 

[Sothall_Blade]

According to this analysis anyway, which whittles down the Sleeping Giants of English football to just three teams - us, pigs & Dirty Leeds.

Pigs come off slightly better than us - they're merely "comatose"...

http://footysphere.com/post/857841932/sleeping-giants-english-football

But "Eighty-five years since winning anything of note"... & counting. Stark. As we, the original United, prepare to meet an actual giant.

Here's an idea... A breakaway 'Sleeping Giants League'

Blades
Wolves
Piggies
Forest
Bolton
Blackpool
Huddersfield
Preston
Weeds
Brummidgeham
Bristol City
Coventry
Portsmouth
Wimbledon
Villa
Ipswich
Burnley
Fulham
Charlton

I reckon it would be pretty competetive with the majority on a level playing field

So basically "The Championship" with us, Blackpool and Portsmouth unfairly parachuted in
(Villa and Coventry look like they're going to join the "Fallen Giants League" by more traditional means)

 

[Sothall_Blade]

"Sleeping Giant"

I think "living on past glories and constantly failing" ... harsh, but my red and white glasses came off years ago.

applicable to not only us, but many, including the majority from the PL.

If the term applies, let it be for a club such as Everton.

Last major honour 1995 (FACup), constantly in the top flight of English football, but nothing of any note apart from a FA Cup final defeat in 2009.
Excursions into Europe, but nothing of major note. Even Middlesbrough, Fulham & Celtic reached European finals this century, who don't compare with Everton.

We're still in the pubescent era compared to being a "Sleeping Giant".

and Spurs. Last won the League in 1961. Last won the FA Cup in 1991. Last won in Europe in 1984 (Everton = 1985).
Must be amongst the top 6 biggest spenders on transfers/wages etc since they last won a big trophy 25 years ago.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I hear the words so and so are traditionally a big club

much depends on the definition of tradition.

For example Nottingham Forest before 1975 were traditionally a small to medium sized club.

Leeds United before 1965 have never been a big club, could argue they were a small club from a rugby town like Wigan. and were in the wilderness for decades. Huddersfield are traditionally the big club of West Yorkshire.

Bristol City have big club potential but they've hardly ever been in the top flight. Many said Cardiff City have massive potential, they were getting close to 30K in the PL but this season in the CC they've proved what a small club they are with gates of 14K average.

Remember tradition starts from the 1890's. Both Sheffield clubs spent almost their entire history in the top flight up to the 2nd world war.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Another amazing fact for SUFC

Is that when we have been out of the top flight we've rarely finished outside the top 10.

Basically since 1890 we always tend to have good seasons in and around the promotion spots. It's weird that on the rare occasion we've finished in the bottom half of the table we've usually ended up relegated.

Hence why our overall combined points tally is one of the highest amongst the English ckubs.

 

[Darren]

Another amazing fact for SUFC

Is that when we have been out of the top flight we've rarely finished outside the top 10.

Basically since 1890 we always tend to have good seasons in and around the promotion spots. It's weird that on the rare occasion we've finished in the bottom half of the table we've usually ended up relegated.

Hence why our overall combined points tally is one of the highest amongst the English ckubs.

We've finished in the bottom half of the second tier in the following seasons

77-8
78-9 (relegated
84-5
87-8 (relegated)
99-00
01-02
10-11 (Relegated)

Add that to 11 seasons (and counting) in the bottom 2 tiers means we have spent 95 of our 113 league seasons in the top tier or the top half of the second tier.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

All good and valid arguments to be fair, Everton along with Arsenal have held the longest continuous top flight status so its difficult to strictly class them as 'real sleeping giants' even tho the hinges on their trophy cabinet door will be seizing up a little by now!

Cardiff i would class as pseudo-sleeping giants.. One amazing Cup win in '27 and a few dips into the top flight but no longevity, its really their potential support base which gives the most weight to the sleeping giants tag.

Darwen FC...one of the founder members of the Football League..still going strong in the NW Counties league..a sleeping dwarf?!
Bishop Auckland..the sleeping giants of non-league as they hoovered up so many FA Amateur Cups in front of packed crowds at Wembley during the 50s and 60s.

Sheffield FC...the oldest existing club..if both senior clubs in Sheffield were to suddenly fold (God forbid) for whatever reason then potentially Sheffield FC are the sleeping phoenix wating to rise, a stretch of the imagination i know but not totally crazy.

Anyway this has led me up to trying to nail the loose term of 'Sleeping Giant'.. Tradition, attendance figures, past success and current league status with a fall from those 4 major ingredients is what i tend to go by in my book.

These missing ingredients then lead you unerringly down that ghastly path with the ghosts of the successes past echoing forlornly after you to come back...down a dark tunnel signposted 'apathy'...its the hope of seeing light again at the end of it that keeps you all going and united in the belief that one day the good days will return.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

Double post again sorry.

Im finding this thread very thought provoking..its when you realize other clubs/supporters are going through similar experiences to you in the same boat almost and you cast aside any rivalries or differences for the good!

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

We've finished in the bottom half of the second tier in the following seasons

77-8
78-9 (relegated
84-5
87-8 (relegated)
99-00
01-02
10-11 (Relegated)

Add that to 11 seasons (and counting) in the bottom 2 tiers means we have spent 95 of our 113 league seasons in the top tier or the top half of the second tier.

So since the late 70's due to inept management at the top and no doubt complacency our proud history and tradition has been thrown away.

This for me is what's so maddening. I remember when we played Newcastle away in the 70's and in their program they enthused about how we were very similar clubs with tradition and history and never having played below the 2nd tier. (I've still got that amongst many hundreds of others btw)

Doubt they'd compare themselves as a similar club now.

It's unforgivable the mismanagement of this club since those days. Every single one of those responsible should hang their heads in shame.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Our claim to fame for most of our history when ever we were out of the top flight we were virtually ALWAYS promotion contenders and had decent seasons.

Even in the 3rd and 4th tier (God forbib) we almost always finish near the top.

It's in our DNA. Our history shows that when ever we are out of the top flight then expect a decent season.
We seem to have had many seasons just missing out on promotion.

Whereas a club like Coventry have been bottom half in league 1 for the past few years. Have just 1 good season and might get promotion at their first sniff of success.

Also I remember Coventry in the 80's escaping relegation on the final day several consecutive seasons. Whereas SU have rarely been involved in any relegation battles but when we have been we've always tended to lose the battle and go down.

 

[BushBlade]

Double post again sorry.

Im finding this thread very thought provoking..its when you realize other clubs/supporters are going through similar experiences to you in the same boat almost and you cast aside any rivalries or differences for the good!

As I'm lazy I spend quite a bit of my working days listening to TalkSport and the complaints from almost every supporter of every club could be applied to us. Eg;

Man U - boring football, passing sideways

Villa - disinterested owner, decisions made by people who don't know the game

I could go on but I'm trying to get a trial at Northampton to prove a point.

 

[Silent Blade]

We've finished in the bottom half of the second tier in the following seasons

77-8
78-9 (relegated
84-5
87-8 (relegated)
99-00
01-02
10-11 (Relegated)

Add that to 11 seasons (and counting) in the bottom 2 tiers means we have spent 95 of our 113 league seasons in the top tier or the top half of the second tier.

Until 1978, how many teams had never finished below the top half of the 2nd division? Cant be that many.

 

[Darren]

Until 1978, how many teams had never finished below the top half of the 2nd division? Cant be that many.

I think Liverpool still have that record. Arsenal's lowest position is 10th in the 2ndf tier in 1896-97, but the 2nd tier only had 16 teams then, so that was below halfway. That was also Newcastle's lowest position before 1978, they finished 10th in 1894-5 - again below half way. Other "likelies" are Everton, Spurs and Man Utd but they had all finished below half way in D2 prior to 1978.

So unless anyone knows different I reckon Liverpool are now the only team never to have finished below half way in the second tier and United were the last other team to lose that record!

 

[Darren]

Edit: Chelsea also had the record. They lost it when they finished 12th in 1981. So I am reckon United were the 2nd last team to lose it.

 

[Silent Blade]

I think Liverpool still have that record. Arsenal's lowest position is 10th in the 2ndf tier in 1896-97, but the 2nd tier only had 16 teams then, so that was below halfway. That was also Newcastle's lowest position before 1978, they finished 10th in 1894-5 - again below half way. Other "likelies" are Everton, Spurs and Man Utd but they had all finished below half way in D2 prior to 1978.

So unless anyone knows different I reckon Liverpool are now the only team never to have finished below half way in the second tier and United were the last other team to lose that record!

Edit: Chelsea also had the record. They lost it when they finished 12th in 1981. So I am reckon United were the 2nd last team to lose it.

Cheers Darren. Interesting that in 1977 we were one of the three clubs never to have finished below the top half of the 2nd division!

 

[BushBlade]

Who's the only club to lose an FA Cup final to a non league team?

 

[Cyprus Blade]

us v spurs sadly

 

[Finn Keane o' Balmaqueen]

Who's the only club to lose an FA Cup final to a non league team?

That's ours forever and ever and ever!