Sky has ruined football...Utter bollocks

[Rodley]

I like this thread. A lot of good discussion. CyprusBlade’s post made really interesting reading. I also think Bush’s points about the freedom of markets and wider economical and political issues are very important too. A lot of people say let’s copy the German format but whilst I’m no expert, it seems their laws regulating trade are quite different from ours. We cannot just flount our laws for the game of football. Do we need to consider whether there should be a change in the laws? I’m no economist and don’t consider myself qualified to weigh up the pros and cons.


The distribution of wealth (and TV money in particular) is certainly an issue as it only widens the gap between the haves and the have-nots. Further, championship clubs are spending more and more irresponsibly in a desperate bid to try to get a slice of the pie. The extension of parachute payments means that there are more clubs in the championship with more money to spend on trying to reclaim a seat at the golden table making even harder for others, in some cases prompting even more irresponsible expenditure which then puts the futures of the clubs in jeopardy. Meanwhile, in League 1, we’re seeing a bigger gulf open as instead of 3 or 4 big spenders at the championship, it becomes 12-15 of them that are now light-years ahead of league 1.


Also, the sheer volume of money thrown into the game has resulted in a scenario whereby footballers are able to command ridiculous salaries without even being near the top of their profession. It also means more are just in it for the money and not the love of the game.


The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. Player power is out of control. Even managers know when they sign a contract, it’s more than likely they will be leaving before the end of it with a payoff in hand as the mad scramble for the 20 golden seats at the table goes on. It’s also worth noting there are benefits of the changes. Football is, generally, more accessible if only on TV. It now reaches every corner of the world but is less about the regions the clubs purport to represent.


We all know the problems exist and most of us can have a fair stab at some of the reasons they exist. What we seem to struggle with is what to do about it?


Some say copy the German template but it is far from that simple. Do we wish to place restrictions on trade? To move away from the capitalist society we live in? As touched upon, by voting tory, it would seem not. Do we accept that professional football is no longer a game for the working classes and uproot and go and watch non-league? Hard to do given the loyalty many of us feel to our own club (something that is becoming diluted and less meaningful over time due to the transient and venal nature of representation).


People say the wealth should be distributed more evenly and that feels right but again, it is a step away from the free markets we operate in. The PL is the highly marketable commodity so there is an argument to say the gains rightfully belong to the PL fan.


The problem for most of us is that we are loyal supporters of a club and that’s our perception of how football should be. A club representing a town or region. It’s supporters being the lifeblood of the club that represents them. These days, football is merely show-business whereby entertainment is being sold to the world via their Sky packages and the fans who hold clubs dear are an afterthought. It’s a problem for us but we are in the minority. If we feel strongly enough about it, perhaps we form a breakaway club like the Manchester fans? FC United of Sheffield anybody?

I dont think wanting greater, fairer competition is incompatible with capitalism.

 

[JJ Sefton]

I dont think wanting greater, fairer competition is incompatible with capitalism.

Given its popularity, people would seem to regard it 'fair' enough as it is.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Who isn't it accommodating?

Oh come on, please save me a lengthy post explaining what you already know.

 

[Lane Ender]

It's not Sky that the problem with football in this country it's the obscene amount of foreigners do we need to field sides with hardly any home grown players.

 

[Bartleby]

It's not Sky that the problem with football in this country it's the obscene amount of foreigners do we need to field sides with hardly any home grown players.

I think the two things are linked - they come here for the obscene money that Sky makes it possible for the Premier league clubs to pay. And also the Sky punters want to see the best players - do you think they'd pay all that money in places like China to watch mainly English players ?? Edit: but I agree it would be better for our national game to have more home grown players in the PL

 

[JJ Sefton]

Oh come on, please save me a lengthy post explaining what you already know.

It's a serious (and straightforward) question. More people are watching football now than before Sky so who is not being accommodated?

 

[Tyler Durden]

It's a serious (and straightforward) question. More people are watching football now than before Sky so who is not being accommodated?

Those who can't pay the enormously augmented ticket prices. Those who feel disillusioned enough with the filthy business of modern football to form breakaway clubs. A pretty significant number of people on the continent pissed off at having their club renamed after bloody Red Bull, and the growing popularity of the 'Against Modern Football' movement in Europe.
As I said in my first post, I don't exclusively blame Sky for all this, I just don't like Sky full stop.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Those who feel disillusioned enough with the filthy business of modern football to form breakaway clubs.

How are the people forming breakaway clubs not being accommodated? Surely they're accommodating themselves?

PS I was there when Enfield Town did this even before AFC Wimbledon.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Those who can't pay the enormously augmented ticket prices.

They can watch games on...Sky.

 

[JJ Sefton]

A pretty significant number of people on the continent pissed off at having their club renamed after bloody Red Bull...

Now you sound like my dad who still moans about the club switching to one central red stripe on its shirt just to accommodate 'Cantors' in 1979.

 

[Tyler Durden]

How are the people forming breakaway clubs not being accommodated? Surely they're accommodating themselves?

They are now. After clearly feeling alienated enough to do so in the first place.
In the case of FC United, you don't break away from the most successful club in England for nothing.

 

[JJ Sefton]

They are now. After clearly feeling alienated enough to do so in the first place.
In the case of FC United, you don't break away from the most successful club in England for nothing.

But, as I say, the first club to do so was Enfield Town. And I'll tell you this, the old Enfield club was hardly some vulgar Sky TV money trench. You can't please all the people all the time. When the fellas at Enfield weren't being pleased any of the time, they went and pleased themselves.

The point is that Manchester United has to balance the rattle waving fans from Salford against the blokes I met in East London and the kids gathering in cinemas in Africa to watch their games. That's modern football.

A final point about alienation. People felt alienated from football more before Sky came along. Attendances were pitiful. Folk were so alienated they stayed away.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Now you sound like my dad who still moans about the club switching to one central red stripe on its shirt just to accommodate 'Cantors' in 1979.

Except the case I cited goes exponentially further.
You might look forward to the day when we're renamed Red Bull/Dr Pepper/ Tango Sheffield or some such crap, but plenty will not.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Except the case I cited goes exponentially further.
You might look forward to the day when we're renamed Red Bull/Dr Pepper/ Tango Sheffield or some such crap, but plenty will not.

I don't look forward to it actually. And if all you're doing is arguing about degrees you've conceded the point.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I don't look forward to it actually. And if all you're doing is arguing about degrees you've conceded the point.

I'm just curious to know what length this would all have to go to before you'd object to this brave new world.
Is there anything you believe should be held sacred? Honest question.

 

[JJ Sefton]

I'm just curious to know what length this would all have to go to before you'd object to this brave new world.
Is there anything you believe should be held sacred? Honest question.

If they started calling us the Sheffield John Hollands I'd fuck off. Or, as when Tony Lazarou was wrecking Enfield, I'd sign up to a breakaway club.

 

[Bartleby]

They can watch games on...Sky.

so basically they can fuck off from watching the club they have supported from the terraces all their lives and leave it to the prawn sandwich brigade?

 

[JJ Sefton]

so basically they can fuck off from watching the club they have supported from the terraces all their lives and leave it to the prawn sandwich brigade?

What do you suggest as the alternative?

PS Our ticket prices have risen pretty steeply over the years. Where can I find our Prawn Sandwich Brigade?

 

[Darren]

What do you suggest as the alternative?

PS Our ticket prices have risen pretty steeply over the years. Where can I find our Prawn Sandwich Brigade?

I did some calculations the other week and, as a percentage of the average wage, United's ticket prices are pretty much the same now as they were in 1980.

 

[JJ Sefton]

I did some calculations the other week and, as a percentage of the average wage, United's ticket prices are pretty much the same now as they were in 1980.

Indeed. I just used the Bank of England's inflation calculator. I remember my dad's tickets costing £10 in about 1989, after inflation that would be about £22 in 2014.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

When I started watching from the Kop in the early sixties, admission was six shillings and eightpence - or was it three shillings and fourpence?

Or was that a gallon of petrol?

 

[Bartleby]

What do you suggest as the alternative?

Guess it's not an issue for us unless we get to the premier league so I'll worry about it if and when we do.

Our ticket prices have risen pretty steeply over the years. Where can I find our Prawn Sandwich Brigade?

As Darren says, they haven't in real terms - I was surprised at that. Who needs prawn sandwiches when you can have a chicken balti pie with Hendos on

 

[Bartleby]

When I started watching from the Kop in the early sixties, admission was six shillings and eightpence - or was it three shillings and fourpence?

Or was that a gallon of petrol?

can''t remember what I used to pay when I first started going, or the price of petrol, but when I first went in a pub in the early 70's I remember beer was 12p a pint which is two and fourpence. Don;t think inflation was rife in 60's so if we say for arguments sake beer was one and six in the early 60s, six and eight is about four and a half pints. In some of the pubs I go in they now charge up to 3.50 a pint which is 15.75, so just a bit less than the 18 quid to go on the kop. Also think I may have too much time on my hands to sit and work this out

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Good stuff Wincobank, nice to see that someone cares

 

[Bartleby]

Good stuff Wincobank, nice to see that someone cares

like I said too much time on my hands - I also have a spreadsheet of United players heights

 

[georgebernardshaw]

like I said too much time on my hands - I also have a spreadsheet of United players heights

Are you sure you don't mean depths?

 

[Bartleby]

Actually, in the Gillingham game average height of both teams was 1.82m. The difference was in the amount of cojones.

 

[BushBlade]

Actually, in the Gillingham game average height of both teams was 1.82m. The difference was in the amount of cojones.

If your figures are reliable.

 

[Bartleby]

If your figures are reliable.

here's what I had - no info on their no 6, but I think Basham is taller than the figure published

Gillingham

1.Stuart Nelson 1.85
2.Ryan Jackson 1.75
4.John Egan 1.85
50.Adedeji Oshilaja 1.81
24.Brennan Dickenson 1.84
6.Jordan Houghton
15.Aaron Morris 1.83
9.Ben Williamson 1.8
23.Bradley Dack 1.75
16.Emma Osaoabe ' 1.84
19.Luke Norris 1.85

SUFC

25.George Long 1.93
2.Kieron Freeman 1.78
15.Neill Collins 1.91
19.Jay McEveley 1.85
28.Callum McFadzean 1.8
9.Jamie Murphy 1.78
11.Jose Baxter 1.79
6.Chris Basham 1.8
17.Martyn Woolford 1.83
10.Billy Sharp 1.75
29. Che Adams 1.8

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I dont think wanting greater, fairer competition is incompatible with capitalism.

I think it depends on your interpretation of fairer. As I said previously, from a purely capitalist perspective, you could argue that by being the best league and marketing itself better than the football league, the Premier League has become by far the most marketable and they get the money because that’s what people the world over are willing to pay for. Why should they be forced to give money to those poorer than themselves. A more liberal view would say the wealth should be more evenly distributed but that’s not in the true spirit of capitalism. Capitalism creates a platform whereby the rich are only likely to get richer and the divide is likely to increase as the rich can speculate to accumulate and can afford to protect their position.

If we're sharing the wealth more evenly to level the playing field, how far do we take it? Kids growing up in Africa don't have the facilities to train and develop so it's harder for them to make it as footballers. Should the BPL be investing in grassroots football to varying degrees worldwide to level the playing field or just in this country? If just in this country, what should the distribution be? Should it be equal? Should a team in league 2 get the same as PL teams?

I'm not having a go at any particular point of view, just pointing out issues with some of the volunteered solutions.