Sir Chris The interview

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mattbianco1 said:
I read that as he chucked him under the bus. Is he actually being complimentary about him saying he was chucked in when he shouldn't have been?

Not sure i agree TBH. A £23m players should be ready to play.

I'll watch this later
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It seems the mandate was along the lines of 'if in doubt, spend it'.

Because as you say, unless you're Manchester United, no normal PL team would essentially pay 23m for 'one for the future'.

To follow it up with complaints about money not being spent on training facilities and a leaky roof in the public domain whilst having 23m invested in a striker who didn't score all season showed an incredible lack of self awareness.
 
As a side note but relevant somewhat, I wonder how many players Wilder contacted before he decided on the players he bought for the Premiership season? let’s face it teams that have gone up usually come back down in their first or second season so was it hard to sign players and Mouse,McBurnie weren’t first choice purchases (think Maupay was). I don’t know if many people remember when CW did a small tv piece on JTW when we tried signing a few players and how players and agents let you down.
 
SwissBlade said:
I think its becoming clear from some of Slav's comments - signings promised and training facilities being an absolute shambles. Can't really say more than that but if you go back and read between the lines there's lots of stuff that wilder said when he was at the club that the prince didn't like, because it was true (and has come out as true since), some of the things that the prince has defended has also been proved to be a real bending of the truth...

And then if you follow some of the ITK journalists, some of the ITK people on here, some people on Social media, they all say the same things.

Don't also forget that Wilder didn't have 100% say on the bigger transfers... no manager in the top league seems to when there is so much cash involved.

If you feel like the heart and soul has been ripped out of the club since Wilder left, then you're probably on to something... If you feel like Wilder is to blame for all of where we are right now, then good luck to you in life.
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It's almost like there's blame for lots of people. Like lots of people performed poorly and made mistakes
 
Rudders said:
TBF the Premier League is almost like a different game. We are not a Premier League set up in most ways so a bit harsh to give Wilder all the blame for that. I still think he did a great job in getting the team there and the first season was amazing. It's just such a shame that he/we couldn't go again and that the relegation season was just so damaging.
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He really didn't have much of an idea how to build from a position of strength which probably will mark him as a very good manager rather than a great one.

You could strongly make a case it was his competitively assembled promotion team that finished 9th really. 9 of the 11 were already fixtures there plus Lundstram replaced Duffy making 10.

Then, as much as he can point to Mousse getting 6 and McBurnie likewise, McBurnie got 7 goals in 3434 PL mins, Mousset 6 in 1521 PL mins, I'm not convinced they added much more than what was already in place.

The desire to replace Billy was another theme, yet Sharp, the top scorer of the promotion season, notched 6 in 1,775 PL minutes. In fact his overall 9 in 2,190 also got us progress in Cups whilst Mousse extends to 1,716 mins and McBurnie to 3,774 mins without adding any further goals.

In other words:
McBurnie cost us 17m, scored a PL goal every 5.5 matches and a goal in all competitions every 6 matches.

Mousset cost us 10m, scored a PL goal every 2.8 matches and a goal in all competitions every 3.2 matches.

Meanwhile Sharp, who was already here, scored a PL goal every 3.3 matches and a goal in all competitions every 2.7 matches.

So if we'd have done a Norwich, statistically, I don't see things having panned out much differently, but we would have been 100m to the good.

It might have been better, if some deals were beyond us, just sticking with what we had and keeping the cash, rather than go down the list and take players so far down they weren't worth signing.

Rather than feel threatened by it, he should have been open to strengthening the recruitment team. You could make a case the quality of the loans this time outstrips the arrivals during any window since promotion. If only he'd have been more open minded.
 
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JonnyD said:
Wilder was untouchable. An unblemished and meteoric rise in stature and reputation over a 4 year period and very much a darling of the media.

Astute in the transfer market, genuinely innovative tactics, excellent all round manager and unbelievable results

For whatever reason, he lost his way, lost his nerve, maybe believed his own hype, and failed spectacularly in the last part of his tenure.

As a result now, outside of Sheffield, he's seen as someone who's wasted a fucking ludicrous sum of money making a team worse, been unable to adapt to adverse circumstances or show flexibility and ultimately threw in the towel when the going got tough

This has decimated his reputation as a top tier manager, and he'll need to rebuild. Listening to some of his comments about Covid/fans etc, whilst he mentioned fault still dont think he's fully shouldered responsibility for the demise, fall from grace and smouldering wreck he left behind

I'm sure he'll rebuild, and have a career as a decent championship level manager, but don't think he'll ever have it as good again. Not to sully his first few years, but he was very much right man, right place, right time.
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In other words, he was lucky for a while, then his luck ran out.

Unfortunately, those in charge didn’t have the nous to realise that before he frittered away enough money to endanger the clubs future
 
Champagneblade said:
He really didn't have much of an idea how to build from a position of strength which probably will mark him as a very good manager rather than a great one.

You could strongly make a case it was his competitively assembled promotion team that finished 9th really. 9 of the 11 were already fixtures there plus Lundstram replaced Duffy making 10.

Then, as much as he can point to Mousse getting 6 and McBurnie likewise, McBurnie got 7 goals in 3434 PL mins, Mousset 6 in 1521 PL mins, I'm not convinced they added much more than what was already in place.

The desire to replace Billy was another theme, yet Sharp, the top scorer of the promotion season, notched 6 in 1,775 PL minutes. In fact his overall 9 in 2,190 also got us progress in Cups whilst Mousse extends to 1,716 mins and McBurnie to 3,774 mins without adding any further goals.

In other words:
McBurnie cost us 17m, scored a PL goal every 5.5 matches and a goal in all competitions every 6 matches.

Mousset cost us 10m, scored a PL goal every 2.8 matches and a goal in all competitions every 3.2 matches.

Meanwhile Sharp, who was already here, scored a PL goal every 3.3 matches and a goal in all competitions every 2.7 matches.

So if we'd have done a Norwich, statistically, I don't see things having panned out much differently, but we would have been 100m to the good.

It might have been better, if some deals were beyond us, just sticking with what we had and keeping the cash, rather than go down the list and take players so far down they weren't worth signing.

Rather than feel threatened by it, he should have been open to strengthening the recruitment team. You could make a case the quality of the loans this time outstrips the arrivals during any window since promotion. If only he'd have been more open minded.
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So based on the statistics, if we'd stuck with the old guard right through the side, and played Mcgoldrick and Sharp up front, we'd probably have got in to Europe and still been in the Premier League now.

That shows how astonishingly good that side was that came through the divisions.
 
Working Class Hero said:
So based on the statistics, if we'd stuck with the old guard right through the side, and played Mcgoldrick and Sharp up front, we'd probably have got in to Europe and still been in the Premier League now.

That shows how astonishingly good that side was that came through the divisions.
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I'm not sure on the latter point regarding still being in the PL because O'Connell's absence would have had to have been treated differently, where the system unravelled without him. But we couldn't have been worse last year that's for sure.

For the first season, we're probably one of very few promoted teams to bench the guy who fired us to promotion and at the same time replace him with a guy who scored fewer goals and at a lower goals per game ratio! (Sharp 23 in 40 games (3,026 mins) v McBurnie 22 in 43 (3,434 mins); 1 every 1.46 games v 1 every 1.73 games.
 
Last year when it started to become painfully obvious that we were likely down I would have agreed and I think I did that Chris was best person to get us back up

By the time he left I was far less convinced and now I’m not convinced at all, he seems to still think his way is the best option so to me it would have been more of just try not to lose and hope to knick a few games

I doubt he would have found his next Duffy or made to many changes to the squad

I just don’t know where the change of momentum was going to come from to stop a team so used to losing
 
Chilttheblade said:
In other words, he was lucky for a while, then his luck ran out.

Unfortunately, those in charge didn’t have the nous to realise that before he frittered away enough money to endanger the clubs future
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Very similar to Bassett, bought very well early early in his tenure, players he knew, but as those players aged & new players/better quality players were needed, the knowledge of that pond was lacking. Also both their voices had lost their power in the dressing room by the end of their tenures.

CW famously had a 'no dickhead' policy when he started, and yet signed a least 2 for decent money and a couple of others for pennies.
 
JonnyD said:
Wilder was untouchable. An unblemished and meteoric rise in stature and reputation over a 4 year period and very much a darling of the media.

Astute in the transfer market, genuinely innovative tactics, excellent all round manager and unbelievable results

For whatever reason, he lost his way, lost his nerve, maybe believed his own hype, and failed spectacularly in the last part of his tenure.

As a result now, outside of Sheffield, he's seen as someone who's wasted a fucking ludicrous sum of money making a team worse, been unable to adapt to adverse circumstances or show flexibility and ultimately threw in the towel when the going got tough

This has decimated his reputation as a top tier manager, and he'll need to rebuild. Listening to some of his comments about Covid/fans etc, whilst he mentioned fault still dont think he's fully shouldered responsibility for the demise, fall from grace and smouldering wreck he left behind

I'm sure he'll rebuild, and have a career as a decent championship level manager, but don't think he'll ever have it as good again. Not to sully his first few years, but he was very much right man, right place, right time.
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Spot on imho.

He's clearly a good manager as his record shows as he climbed the leagues over a number of years, often dealing with difficult financial circumstances.

Time will tell but I guess the question will remain that can he manage higher up with a budget until he proves otherwise.

Whatever, it was a fantastic ride albeit too short.

A mention needs to go to Alan Knill for the system and some changes that were made.

However, time to move on and those who can't cope with his departure, need to stop looking for sticks to beat the club with.
 



varkanoid said:
and the 2nd season ......... ? 🤣
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Well obviously there was that. But in response to your statement about not keeping us up, I was honour bound to point out that he actually did, with the club's joint highest league position since the 70's, and but for the interruption to the season would likely have bettered that.
 
You can get away with spending a few Bob on players like Evans,Leonard,Carruthers,Holmes and the others that didn't come off and got ditched quickly,but when you're spending millions on players, they absolutely need to work in the PL,added to Robinson for Burke and the established players might have realised that the plot had been lost and the needed quality wasn't happening.
 
Rudders said:
We need the SJ team to show some of the unity, fight and swagger that Chris and his team bought. That is what gets fans excited at BDTBL, not the passing about within our own 18 yard box from a goal kick.
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I think this is it in a nutshell and why, potentially, SJ's reign could be doomed from the beginning. This fan base isn't used to "tippy tappy" possession based football. I also don't think we have the squad for it.
 
If he doesn't take a Championship club soon, he will soon be forgotten, such as football is. In that scenario, I could see him returning to manage a local club in a few years time, as I think what he did is appreciated alot more by fans of every team in Yorkshire, especially South Yorkshire.
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
I think the Wilder debate has been done over that many times. It’s people’s opinions, my opinion is he fully screwed up his last season and hurt his legacy with the signings/ interviews / public ownership fall out.

But when Wilder was good and motivated I wouldn’t choose any other man to be in charge of my football club.
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This sums his time up with us perfectly
 
Davalon said:
Spot on imho.

He's clearly a good manager as his record shows as he climbed the leagues over a number of years, often dealing with difficult financial circumstances.

Time will tell but I guess the question will remain that can he manage higher up with a budget until he proves otherwise.

Whatever, it was a fantastic ride albeit too short.

A mention needs to go to Alan Knill for the system and some changes that were made.

However, time to move on and those who can't cope with his departure, need to stop looking for sticks to beat the club with.
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It was a bit like when we finished well under Clough and had a good cup run. It was all geared up for a winning next season and the preseason just got too weird.

A few things I just simply didn't understand why Chris didn't do things differently because it was well within his capabilities to have done so:

1. His original plan was to have Freeman challenge Duffy. He wanted more creativity. So with Lundstram playing up, with his 3 month purple patch over, why did he send Freeman to Forest? Why did he not just go back to plan A and Play Freeman behind the strikers as originally intended? Why did the solution have to be just signing new players?

2. Why did he not change the system when O'Connell was out? It was obvious Bryan and Robinson were no more then stop gaps. He'd played other formations, and not 3 at the back, before he came to us. Why did he not develop one of those and park the 3 with JOC out?

3. Why did he insist on spending so much on fees leaving little left for other things? Having a 30m pound Chris Wilder Training Complex and Academy would have been a far better legacy than hoping Brewster, McBurnie, Berge etc turn it around to recapture some value. It seemed saving face became more important than the long term of the club.

4. Similarly, as a new found PL team with more pull than many, how come we didn't get any decent Bosman's? Did our net just not stretch wide enough? Why did we not use up all our loan options in the final year yet end up short on midfielders and lacking in defence?

5. Why did he show such little understanding around COVID? Bleating to the media about the training ground and roof seemed wilfully blind with a number of major income streams compromised. This seemed a far cry from not tipping up the owner in search of cash that he previously mentioned.

Simple stuff really that was bread and butter to Chris. I felt quite let down because everything suggested that he'd handle those situations well. At some point his focus got lost. I don't dislike Chris. He did very well overall, but if he'd shown more maturity and resilience in the face of adversity he could have created a 10 year legacy. Look at his mate Dyche. He has a tiny squad, makes just one or two key additions each window and that's it. He embraces their limitations. He doesn't bleat about them.
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
I think the Wilder debate has been done over that many times. It’s people’s opinions, my opinion is he fully screwed up his last season and hurt his legacy with the signings/ interviews / public ownership fall out.

But when Wilder was good and motivated I wouldn’t choose any other man to be in charge of my football club.
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Just like Dr Frankenstein, Wilder created a patchwork monster, that eventually destroyed itself. It seems to have also destroyed his own reputation...Wilder is lucky he never had to to face the angry mob.
 
Champagneblade said:
It was a bit like when we finished well under Clough and had a good cup run. It was all geared up for a winning next season and the preseason just got too weird.

A few things I just simply didn't understand why Chris didn't do things differently because it was well within his capabilities to have done so:

1. His original plan was to have Freeman challenge Duffy. He wanted more creativity. So with Lundstram playing up, with his 3 month purple patch over, why did he send Freeman to Forest? Why did he not just go back to plan A and Play Freeman behind the strikers as originally intended? Why did the solution have to be just signing new players?

2. Why did he not change the system when O'Connell was out? It was obvious Bryan and Robinson were no more then stop gaps. He'd played other formations, and not 3 at the back, before he came to us. Why did he not develop one of those and park the 3 with JOC out?

3. Why did he insist on spending so much on fees leaving little left for other things? Having a 30m pound Chris Wilder Training Complex and Academy would have been a far better legacy than hoping Brewster, McBurnie, Berge etc turn it around to recapture some value. It seemed saving face became more important than the long term of the club.

4. Similarly, as a new found PL team with more pull than many, how come we didn't get any decent Bosman's? Did our net just not stretch wide enough? Why did we not use up all our loan options in the final year yet end up short on midfielders and lacking in defence?

5. Why did he show such little understanding around COVID? Bleating to the media about the training ground and roof seemed wilfully blind with a number of major income streams compromised. This seemed a far cry from not tipping up the owner in search of cash that he previously mentioned.

Simple stuff really that was bread and butter to Chris. I felt quite let down because everything suggested that he'd handle those situations well. At some point his focus got lost. I don't dislike Chris. He did very well overall, but if he'd shown more maturity and resilience in the face of adversity he could have created a 10 year legacy. Look at his mate Dyche. He has a tiny squad, makes just one or two key additions each window and that's it. He embraces their limitations. He doesn't bleat about them.
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Great Post.
Another thing I would like to touch on is his loyalty to the players.
It would seem that his loyalty to the promotion team actually got us the brilliant first season.
But then he continued to be loyal (alarm bells should have been ringing at the Norwich match) throughout Covid with that team despite the wheels falling off. Really he should have binned off Fleck, Lunny, Norwood, Enda. He resigned Rammers (out of loyalty?) Who also performed abysmally in the first half of the season, more than playing his part in setting up the humiliation.
So we need a manager to be loyal when they players are in form and ruthless when they are not! It's almost like they have to have a split personality!
 
WincobankBlade said:
50 years ago today under Harris we were unbeaten in 7 (W6, D1) , proudly and deservedly top of the league! Still finished a respectable 10th and played some nice football.
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We've always lacked that killer instinct that lets you go on and achieve
We did it in league one as we knew we were a better side
But in 2007 under Warnock from a position of strength we went all negative and tried to hold what we had and failed.
Under Wilder we had a European spot in our grasp but again did not seize the day
4 play off championship finals we decided not to show up.
I'd love to see us win a big game at Wembley just once. A cup semi or a play off will suffice just to say we've cracked our self inflicted hoodoo
 
Whichever way you look at it
When the Going Gets Tough the tough gets going

rephrased

When the going got tough Wilder left us to it
 
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Wilder gave us something we never had. The whole country was talking about us. We lived in a bubble where we would never be without Wilder as manager. It was incredible. I think that’s why it hurts so much that he repeatedly offered to quit and eventually did. It was like how I assume your dad waking out on you as a kid feels.
 



ISZA ⚔️ said:
Wilder gave us something we never had. The whole country was talking about us. We lived in a bubble where we would never be without Wilder as manager. It was incredible. I think that’s why it hurts so much that he repeatedly offered to quit and eventually did. It was like how I assume your dad waking out on you as a kid feels.
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"that’s why it hurts so much that he repeatedly offered to quit and eventually did. It was like how I assume your dad waking out on you as a kid feels"


You think?.
 
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